Dad was in extreme pain. He took out a handgun and shot a hole in the wall out of frustration. On the day that it happened, he said he fired the shot because he wanted to end the pain. I took that as a suicide threat. I took him to the ER for the belly pain and ask them to keep him for 3 days. I told the hospital that I took a gun away from him, but I did not tell them that he fired a shot. I didn't want to get law enforcement involved. While he was in the hospital, we removed the guns from his house. We tagged them with his name, made a list of the serial numbers and locked them up at my house. Now that he is home from the hospital, he is accusing me of stealing his guns. He will not admit that shooting a hole in the wall is not a rational thing to do. Was I wrong? Should I return the guns? What is my next step?
At least Amy managed to get the guns out. I would follow this up by saying that you, Amy, will only see him or your mom as long as they both attest there are no guns now forthcoming.
"From your profile:
I am caring for my father Andrew , who is 85 years old, living at home with age-related decline, alzheimer's / dementia, anxiety, cancer, depression, and mobility problems."
My grandfather had dementia and was hallucinating people looking in the windows. He had some revolvers and shotguns. We'd planned to just unload them, but then he started calling police because there were 'people dancing in the yard and up the trees'. We feared he'd be outside with a shotgun, and the cops wouldn’t know it was unloaded. He stayed mad about taking his guns until the day he died, but at least he died naturally and not because a cop had no choice but to fire.
He's not rational and you have to protect you and him.
Absolutely DO NOT return the guns, ever.
Second: Is there no treatment for his pain? Is this the only thing causing him to be suicidal? Or are there other factors, like depression or dementia?
My stepFIL had Lewy Body dementia from Parkinsons and he made threats so the county told us to immediately remove the guns and ammo or they wouldn't enter the premises no matter what. Same for the safety of the EMTs. Same for anyone who needs to provide help or services to him.
The fact that he can not admit that what he did was irrational, the fact that he wanted to "end the pain" all sort of tell me that he is (at times) mentally unstable. (this may be a result of pain, frustration, fear)
The thought that goes through my head right away looking at your profile and what is going on is that this might be a "perfect storm" for a "murder / suicide" and I would hate to think that might happen.
I'll go one step further and say that shooting at a wall instead of himself is not a suicide attempt, but rather the brightest red flag there is that this man needs to be in locked care. Your mother is in danger from his anger, you're in danger -- everyone is.
As I see it, ethically you have two options -- put him in memory care or contact law enforcement, let them take a report of what happened, and surrender the guns to them. They're not going to arrest an 85-year-old with dementia for unsafely discharging a weapon, but he'll be on their radar and the next time he goes off the rails he won't be handled with kid gloves.
To me, your decision to remove the guns was absolutely correct. In fact you did a stellar job of getting him out of the house while you took care of business.
If he is extremely passionate about this, be sure to be on the lookout for him trying to replace them with the help of sympathetic friends or family members. Hopefully he isn’t still driving. Think out of control teenager and remember that this stage will pass as he declines.
I hope you can find him the help he needs.
I am caring for my father Andrew , who is 85 years old, living at home with age-related decline, alzheimer's / dementia, anxiety, cancer, depression, and mobility problems.
About Me
I still work full time and care for both parents who live a mile away. I moved here five years ago to be in place as they age.
Not only should dad not have firearms in his possession, but he should not be living w/o full time care if mom is compromised herself in any way. Keep those guns away from him or the next shot he fires can be thru your mother's head, God forbid. Driving a motor vehicle is another thing to prevent him from doing. If his pain is bad, get him into his cancer doc for meds to help him manage it better.
I suggest you read this 33 of booklet online about managing dementia and what to expect with an elder who's been diagnosed with it.
Understanding the Dementia Experience, by Jennifer Ghent-Fuller
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/210580
Jennifer is a nurse who worked for many years as an educator and counsellor for people with dementia and their families, as well as others in caring roles. She addresses the emotional and grief issues in the contexts in which they arise for families living with dementia. The reviews for her books are phenomenal b/c they are written in plain English & very easy to read/understand. Her writings have been VERY helpful for me.
The full copy of her book is available here:
https://www.amazon.com/Thoughtful-Dementia-Care-Understanding-Experience/dp/B09WN439CC/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2E7WWE9X5UFXR&keywords=jennifer+ghent+fuller+books&qid=1657468364&sprefix=jennifer+ghent%2Caps%2C631&sr=8-2
Wishing you the best of luck with a difficult situation.
Get law enforcement involved if there are suicidal threats, and do NOT return the guns under any circumstances. No one with dementia has any business owning a firearm.
Id call the police department to see if this is true, or if there’s a way they can just take the guns.