My dad died of Covid in November. He didn't tell me how unwell my mom was. I'm now dealing with a narcissistic sister who somehow got power of attorney. She is really feeling it and using it to settle old scores. I haven't talked to her in 25 years and it is now worse than I remember. She and BIL were incredibly abusive to me the day my dad died. I was trying to figure out what was going on, to help. I had to find out where he was and which hospital on my own. My sister would respond with "We don't need your help" and "If you keep texting me I'm going to block you" (this was the only phone I had to connect to my Mom). "I'm only giving you information out of respect for your dad." All this because my sister told me about the affair she had and tried to enlist my help to hide evidence. Knowing full well BIL could take the children, I said, "No. I will not do anything to hurt your children". She tried to hide my mom from me, it took me a month to get a phone number for her. My sister dropped her off at assisted living in a different state 100 miles away 1 week after she lost her husband of 61 years a few weeks before Christmas. My sister picked her up for one day on Christmas then back to A.L. Our mom was not happy or well for months. She tried to make the best of it she told me later. She is very submissive and depressed. As she started coming out of the grief she said she was terribly lonely and asked if she could live with me. I was in an RV and said I was going to get a house so we could be near each other. This cheered her up immensely. I realized she was still in there, personality and sense of humor intact. She became a bit playful and goofy and thanked me over and over. She confided in me that she doesn't like my sister and that she "makes her uncomfortable". She told me she trusts me over and over. My sister was unraveling, of course she was all bent out of shape that my mother was unaware she was sending repetitive e-mails (very short short-term memory). That she couldn't appreciate all that she was doing for her. Me! Me! Me! When I grew concerned that I was being blocked on e-mail I was transferred to the director of the facility. They were incredibly defensive despite telling her my mom was very happy with the staff just depressed and missing family. I told her I was just trying to troubleshoot the problem without getting my sister and BIL involved. The Director then tells my BIL that I'm plotting to file complaints with the state and instead of communicating with me he tells my mom that I'm creating trouble and "I hope you don't get kicked out." She rants about her complaining and lack of gratitude, says it's making her sick and affecting our marriage and says, "Maybe you should go live with (me) in _____." My sister writes me soon after and says, ,"She's all yours. You figure out how to get her out there and I'll write the checks." Then she CCs me in another narcissistic masterpiece to my mom which includes a laundry list (wrapped in "love") about all the things she can't do anymore such as make friends, play games, do puzzles, be creative. Basically everything that made life worth living was gone. I tell them that can never happen again. BIL's letter was elder abuse. My mom begs to live with me. I'm trying to figure out a way to make it work, we found a house and are excited then my sister today said; No mom, you need professional carer 24/7. My dad took care of her and had no immediate plans for assisted living, I could do the same. I work at home. I could be with her 24/7. She agreed to mom moving several states away because I could do all the work. As of today I am "your other daughter". I'm exhausted but I have to get her help. She needs to be evaluated, learn her rights. She's fully on board, but I don't know where to start. If we do this my sister will cut off our communication. Does my mom have the right to choose who cares for her and spend her own $ to pay for that? Mom is getting $10k/mo from Dad's retirement and can't touch it. I feel so helpless.
OP, I suggest you immerse yourself in your moms AL experience before doing anything else. Airbnb it as close as possible, and visit her daily for 18 hours for two weeks.
The true extent of exactly what she needs help with will become apparent.
So, you file the paperwork for conservatorship and hire a lawyer to represent your mother or her AL facility will. Do not tell your sister, or anyone at the AL, or even your mother. Keep it a secret until after you've filed the petition in the court.
Go with the lawyer you hire to represent your mother for the conservatorship/guardianship. Then explain to her what is going on and what you did. Then let the lawyer take it from there.
As for your sister and her settling of old scores. You have an ace in the hole you can play if she refuses to be reasonable, and you should play that card if you have to.
Next time she makes a threat to you, tell her you're going to invite your BIL out to lunch so you can catch up.
She'll know what you mean and will knock off the BS. If she doesn't pin that scarlet letter on her and tell everyone.
The OP should really first consult with a highly qualified Eldercare attorney who is licensed in the mom's state. S/he will be able to best advise on how to proceed. If mom agrees to guardianship/conservatorship, I believe that streamlines the process a bit.
Here's a good article from the AgingCare library:
https://www.agingcare.com/Articles/how-to-get-guardianship-of-elderly-parents-140693.htm
One of my close friends, and my oldest daughter's best friend's mother to be exact, lost her dad last year. It was a shock - he was - to the naked eye- in good health. He was caring for his wife with AZ for about 2 years by that point, at home. So when he passed, his daughter immediately had to go to their home and get her mother. Her brother travels for work and was out of the country and quite frankly wouldn't have been the best choice because he hasn't seen their mom in a long time and was in for a shock to be honest. Anyway - they did their best to retrofit their home (which houses mom, dad and two college kids) to make grandma welcome while dealing with grandpa's death.
Why am I telling you this? Mom was still working full time. Within less than a week - mom had to quit a job that she loved - LOVED to care for her mom. WITHIN LESS THAN SEVEN DAYS. This is a job that she had worked so hard to get, had gone to school as an adult - this was the DREAM JOB. But she was so caught off guard by everything that was going on and they didn't have time to find care that fast and get her into a safe place. So she had to do what she had to do. But you talk about not understanding why they moved so fast to get her into a facility - if they knew they couldn't care for her - I do understand why. I don't mean to put too fine of a point on it, because you seem 100% convinced this is the right path but maybe it wasn't the right path for them.
And are you 100% sure that you know without a shadow of a doubt that you are right? Have you talked to her doctors for the latest assessment? Do you know how much she has deteriorated in the time that you have been gone? Dementia can go downhill fast. My grandmother has dementia - just early stages even. But my oldest daughter that is away at college was shocked at how much she has changed in just the last semester that she has been away from home.
You are set on this -and while that is up to you- you are thumbing your nose at the experience of a lot of years of caregiving that are trying to warn you to tread carefully here and consider things before you blow in and shake things up based on conversations with your mom. She has dementia AND she just lost her husband. That combination can be very difficult to dig through the mud with - she is confused and her stories while they may always be the same may not always be the truth. They may be HER truth, but they may not be the actual truth. People with dementia live in a different world.
You mention that your sister is a narcissist. I'm curious. YOU said that your parents told YOU a lot of not so nice things about your sister. YOU said they told you to run from her. YOU said that they were trying to protect YOU from your sister. All due respect. If you were still in contact with your parents, why on earth did they make this person their POA? I certainly would never make someone my POA that I didn't think had my best interests at heart and that I didn't really even like that much unless there was literally no one else that I could rely on that was a better choice. (and I would never make a narcissist my POA, I have one in my life and that is a big no from me) If she was such a bad choice, why did your dad choose her in the first place? You generally only make a person your POA if you believe they will make the best choices for you when you can't make them for yourself.
I also have to wonder - if OP's parents continually maligned OP's sister to her over the long years, I wonder what they were telling OP's sister about OP during that same time? As you say, if sister is such a bad choice, why was she named POA in the first place?
You seem to think poorly of your sister for putting your mom in AL after the death of your dad.
Your mom has/d dementia. Your father covered it up. Like many caregivers, he predeceased the person he was caring for and had no back-up plan, apparently.
Did you expect your sister to take mom into her home and provide care for her? Not everyone is cut out to be a caregiver, especially not of a dementia patient. Admitting a demented parent to a good AL after the death of their partner and caregiver isn't abuse by any stretch.
If you are going to succeed in getting your mom and taking care of her, you are going to need a good lawyer and you are going to have to stop dredging up your sister's past sins (wanting a rich husband, liking vacations) and concentrating on making a case of what is best for mom.
Have you considered a good AL near where you want to put down roots?
Like the OP states in the beginning of her story, her sister is using the POA as a means to settle old scores. This happens all the time in families.
The OP is not dredging up the past. From what she says here, the sister doesn't give two sh*ts about the mother. If she did then she wouldn't be saying things that the AL is going to kick her out. She wouldn't be sending letters stating all the things the mother can't do anymore like make friends or do puzzles, etc... That's not right.
If the sister refuses to be reasonable give over the POA to the OP who's actually interested and wants to take care of the mother, then she should indeed dredge up one specific bit from the past.
The bit about her sister's adultery behind her husband's back. That will likely make the sister very willing to be reasonable.
Get a NELF-certified lawyer to straighten this mess out.
BUT please be sure you understand what you're getting into.
While a lawyer can't do an evaluation, they will talk to a client to see if they understand what they are doing. If mom is still lucid enough to change POA, then let her do it.
BUT sissy will likely fight you and file for guardianship. So it might be better to get there first.
You'd want to go for both guardianship that covers both person and money--the ability to determine where she lives and the ability to use her funds for her care.
You want a lawyer certified by NELF. Best of luck. Please let us know how you get on.
Read this pamphlet.
Understanding the Dementia Experience, by Jennifer Ghent-Fuller
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/210580
"There will be no greater reward than seeing her curled up on my couch in front of the fire with a cup of hot tea...and happy. "
...which speak of a complete absence of understanding of your mother's needs or the responsibilities involved in meeting them.
If she's lonely, go and visit her.
That's not it. It's that we keep hearing variations on your story-- long disconnected child who sees a real opportunity (it seems to them) to reconnect with a parent and heal that relationship. There is usually some sibling dysfunction at play and a sort of unconscious or unacknowledged remnants of the whole "Mom loves me best thing" running under it.
We get the desperate "how do I get my demented parent who is torturing me to death out of my house" plea. We are trying to warn you about what may lie ahead.
Folks with dementia frequently tell their visitors that they just need to get home. We hear from the folks who thought they were rescuing Granny or Aunt May from the clutches of the evil AL or NH, only to find that without the structure and support of that place and that staff, the patient falls apart.
You work at home. We hear from a lot of folks who thought they could do that. But a dementia patient starts insisting that they need to see, and talk to their caregiver every moment. They interrupt phone calls. Have to be toileted during Zoom conferences. Are up evey two hours or all night long.
AND then are the doctor appointments, dentist, hearing, eye exams, hair dresser. At least for my mom, some of that was "in house" when she was in a facility. And there was the immeasurable benefit of having a geriatric psychiatrist who came in and kept tabs on mom's mental state and meds.
We hear from the folks with the dementia patient at home who refuses to see doctors. Where the only recourse is calling 911 and further disorienting and damaging the patient.
Sorry if we didn't get all of this across in a way that was compassionate and understandable.
I wish you well.
I am not long-disconnected. I cut ties with my sister for a very good reason, with my parents' support. I was so close to my parents for so many years. Until I was 45. I hung in there and came back over and over. My sister used to mock me for how close we were. When the moved back to our home state she said, "Maybe now you can get a boyfriend." I was not born to be paired. I knew that when I was 8. That had nothing to do with being too close to my parents. (anticipating the next attack, which is ironic given that this forum has the word "care" in it's very name.) I'm freakishly independent. That's a big part of what I came here to learn, to love myself as much as I love everyone else. Family was incredibly important to me. I was a person who showed up. I cared about everyone's feelings. I tried and tried and tried until I felt I would die if I kept trying.
I have literally never seen so much visceral anger and judgement coming from total strangers as I have here. I'm in it too. I've been though hell in the last 7 months. I managed to send out 300 orders in the weeks that followed my dad's death. I was frantically buying slippers and teddy bears for my mother in an attempt to comfort her. Covid was raging and I couldn't fly down to see her and she was literally begging me a dozen times a day. It was a nightmare. I was processing my sister and brother-in-law's abuse, fighting to get my mother's phone number, fighting to stay positive for her. She loved that teddy bear so much she talked about it and how much she needed and loved it for six days straight. She said the people she eats with took turns hugging it at the table so I went out and bought 20 more bears and had little kerchiefs made and sent her a huge box so she could pass out bears to anyone else who wanted one.
I think we all deserve a bit more credit and respect until we really know who we're talking to and what's going on. I saw another post from a guy talking about how his brother was abusing his mother and the responses were completely different. Total support. No challenging, no attacking... "REPORT IT NOW." "You have to help her!!!" So yeah...interesting. I can tell you I'll probably be stopping in her only when necessary in the future. About five years ago I made a pact with myself to surround myself only with people who love and support me. This forum rates a D- on that scale. Last thing I needed this week after putting offers on 3 houses and losing all of them -- while working full time.
I do very much appreciate your thoughtful response. I understand that talking about my positive energy about the situation to people who are deep in it is very likely to garner a negative response. This is the stuff that pushes you to your limits. I have no idea what lies ahead...what path her journey and mine are going to take but I do think it's important to start out as "cup half full" as you can. To have a group descend on me the way this one has, in an attempt to try to, I dunno...slap me out of what amounts to sheer joy at the chance of finally having a shot of making my mother as happy as she an be just feels incredibly toxic. I understand it but it's not a healthy supportive place for me to be. Maybe you don't understand what's it like to have zero power and what a gift it is to have a shot. To me it's an opportunity.
We visited while dad was alive, but the next two visits he had died, and mom was doing good, still healthy, just losing her mind to Alzeheimers. She was fully mobile, walked faster than her son if she wanted, and missed her husband very much.
The last visit was four years ago. it had been two years in between visits, our visits were a week long, and we ate lunch, met her friends, toured the facilities, went on walks, and hung out with her, as much as possible, every day. We could not relocate, and due to sad family issues, caused by MIL, the two sons have not spoken in over 20 years. MIL was a handful, good grandma but manipulative mom. The last visit it was obvious she had gone round the bend, was fully suffering sundowners attitudes. She let us know she hated her son, the one who they put in charge of them, she wanted to know where we were, could she live with us, all sorts of nonsense, all week long.
The things she said about the son and his wife, in charge of her affairs, were horrible, but she was in full disease mode, not really responsible for her thinking. It’s Alzeheimers, and it can be really really bad. We knew she was in good hands, and have never gone back. We aren’t in a position to spend more time, in a state across the country, she is being taken care of, they have insurance that handles her expenses.
Are we sad we’ll most likely never see her again? Yes, but seeing her only threw her into turmoil, cause she wants her FAVORITE SON, my husband, and he lives a very far ways away. They moved, we did not move. We still work for you a living as well.
Often money seems involved in the family sibling fights, and decisions about who will take care of the ailing elders, be in charge. Neither my husband nor I expect or care about getting one dime after our parents are dead, as this disease eats up money, and people live a long time. My advice, take care of yourself and make sure you can do that in your elder years as well. Don’t make decisions based on getting an inheritance.
I may never speak to one of three sisters again, cause she is hateful, and my husband may never speak to his brother again, tho I wish they would straighten out what their mom started, but we both don’t have wars, or cause problems. Life is too hard, we accept amends, and make them when necessary. Don’t be gone from a family situation, and then roll up expecting to take over, cause 25 years is a long time to be MIA.
I lost my train of thought, hmmmm, but I understand when family moves away, connection can be lost. I warned my mom and dad 7-8 years ago not to move to the lower 48, with our youngest sister, cause I would not visit more than once a year, for a week or so, and I would not stay longer, to share caregiving, cause I knew my parents, mom especially, would require help, based on her lack of exercise and resistance to moving. They moved me to AK, and had waited way to long to move away, past their healthier years. I am an honest, straight forward person, and was clear about the help they could expect from me/us. They did not move, just to be warm. Away from family that helps. Take care, sorry if this was too much. Be careful what you wish for, my sponsor’s fav cliche, could apply here for you.
I have no use for this BS behavior. You’re tired of living in your RV?!?!?! Then get work that gets you into the kind of home you want, do not look at elder family money like it is yours, nope. Your elders could live a very long time, and memory loss care will only get more expensive. You’re lucky your two siblings gave you the time of day. Real easy to figure out what matter to you, and elder care, is NOT what matters to you.
Your Dad could not assign your sister POA over Mum, it does not work that way.
Your sister is the POA and has SAFELY placed her Mom in care.
If you cannot offer help,kindness, reassurance that all is well (or as well as it CAN be now) then I suggest you remove yourself from this.
Your Mother cannot now buy one half of ANYTHING EVER. Do you understand that? She has dementia. And your sister has POA for her. You claim you are not warring with your sister and your BIL. Yet you have the nerve to call them abusive. I honestly don't even know WHAT to say to you anymore, but I thank god you aren't in MY life.
This is done.
It is too late.
Offer loving words and kind support. When your Mother begs to get out of her facility know that this is very common, in fact almost the norm.
You won't take this advice. I know you won't. You seem to have an answer for everyone and everything. Be that as it may, were I your sister you would have about one month to change your ways. At that point I would forbid you from speaking with either me or my Mom.
And if you call APS you had better have PROOF positive of this abuse you speak of. They will frown upon your case otherwise.
Your sister is the lioness at the gate. Failure to recognize that will have, I believe, severe repercussions.
Are you and your sister equal beneficiaries in the trust or estate? Do you think your sister is going to find a way to cut you out? While you may say that the money doesn't matter, if you are currently living in an RV, I wonder if you are financially secure. Are you?
The OP says that Mom will pay for one half the house. She seems not to understand that with dementia she will no longer be buying a house. I think our OP is traveling a road that is going to get her a stay away order, and fast.
My mom is currently in assisted living. She was dropped off there a week after my dad died,
I am not warring with my sister. I am pleading with her to come together and put our past issues aside (I had none with her I found my way to compassion for her years ago. I am remaining calm. I am taking care not to trigger her. I am thinking of only what my mom needs. When I showed up when I knew my dad was dying I came with an open heart and they both came out of the gate swinging after no contact for 25 years.
My mom didn't appoint my sister as POA, my dad did. And with her dementia diagnosis I don't think she will have the right to change it without help.
I'm afraid to get APS involved until we are together in Illinois. My sister will cut off contact between us which will really send my mom over the edge.
I feel bad for my mom too. My only goal is to help my mom. Some people can still be taken care of at home and don't yet need assisted living. I understand that most of you are exhausted and aren't quick to recommend it but I feel an obligation to her to do everything I can to allow her to live in a house for as long as she can.
Her dementia is not as advanced as her memory issues. I've given her sample questions from dementia tests and she is all there intellectually. "If I say 1a, 2b, 3..... what is the next part of that? She says "C"...like why is that hard? Again, my dad took care of her himself and had no immediate plans for assisted living. er personality is intact...she just gets a little confused about time. She is pleasant to be around, grateful, agreeable. Loving as can be. If I talk to her once or twice a day she feels like she did 30 years ago. If I skip a few days she is much worse. She needs a loved one to engage with her often. She needs consistency and momentum. She thrives when she is hopeful and excited -- I can't overestimate the power of a "will to live". As I described it to my sister "she needs a salt flat".
My sister had zero interest in family until she found out my dad got in Netflix early and had made a fortune. Suddenly her love was overflowing. They were actually heading back to Mexico to live because they preferred to be taken care of by strangers instead of by my sister. Because I didn't even know either one of them had been sick I was protecting myself with some firm boundaries about issues that were unresolved and ongoing from the past (extreme codependence between the two of them for starters). Had I known I would have let all that go and just shown up.
I told my mom I had the house covered, didn't need any money for the house, but at the last minute there were additional expenses concerning the valuation of the property and I said there may be a hitch. She said, "I'll pay for half!" and I said, "Thank you but no...it may just be a few thousand $'s." We were racing to get a house asap to get her away from my sister and BIL who she does not like.
I understand very well what is involved with taking care of someone in her condition. I did not arrive at that decision without a great deal of thought.
To the person who said they can't see what is abusive about taking your frustration and fear about a sister out on a disabled mother -- shaming her for what she can't help and making her fear losing what little she has left, the very place she lives -- sending her into a state of apologizing profusely for what she does not know, to the point of PLEASE GOD HELP ME...I hope you are not currently caring for anyone.
My mom has no issues with me. None. She thanks me all day long. She says she doesn't know what she would do if I wasn't standing up for her.
What I need is someone to determine if she is lucid enough (I know she is) to decide for herself what she wants. It is steady and unchanging. "I can't wait to live with you. But I will. Don't race and get just any house. Get the house you want."
You have a way of stating things "Mom was dropped off at AL in a week " after your Dad's death. I imagine she WAS taken to ALF because the fact is Dad could no longer care for her in home. She has lost her husband and now must be in care. She is easy prey now for anyone at all.
Your Mom is in care. Your sister is her POA. If you want to be helpful then offer visits and stop stirring the pot when Mom begins begging. Your mom has dementia. She will likely beg everyone who shows up to help her. She cannot buy a house now. She has dementia. She cannot pay for half a house with her.
I advise you to let your Mom and your sister ALONE except to offer both visits and help.
You say you are well aware of what it is to take care of someone with dementia? Really? When did you do this and for how many years, and did you do it 24/7? Have you been around on this forum to see what that looks like?
I think your sister WILL eventually cut you off if this continues. I know that I would. I would tell you I am the POA, and was appointed as such. That I am functioning in that duty as well as I can for the good of my Mother. That I know her and her condition better than you because I have lived there, but whether I do know it or I don't I AM THE POA. If you could not settle yourself, encourage your Mom to know this is where she is living, not with you, not with buying half a house in another state, but right here, then I think that is very sad. For your Mother. For your Sister. And for you as well.
You won't take my advice. I already know that.
You have every reason no matter what anyone says why you are right, even though you have not lived in that area for some time and your sister is the POA.
Dementia is progressive. However mom is now, it will be different next month, and the month after.
I'm not sure if you are trying to get POA. Is that what you want?
I can't figure out what BIL did or said that was abusive; are you relying on what mom is telling you? Tread cautiously there. Dementia patients misunderstand a lot of stuff.
I think our OP is walking herself straight into a stay away order; I know I would already have one, myself.
Because your post is so long and full of the angst of sibling history/current warfare I cannot make out just WHAT has happened/is happening NOW, and what any PLAN is.
So I have questions:
#1.Is your mother suffering from DIAGNOSED dementia? When was she diagnosed and by whom?
#2.Is your mother currently living with you? If not who is she living with? Is she living ALONE? In a facility.
#3 Is your Sister still the POA, holding power of Mom's placement and purse? (If your Mom is competent) is she aware she can appoint another person as her POA ANY TIME SHE WANTS TO?
Dependent on answers to those questions the future depends. And PLEASE stop telling us about the PAST.
Now comes another question:
WHAT IS IT YOU WANT NOW? What exactly is your plan, and what do you want?
Do YOU want to be in charge of a now failing Mom? Do you want Mom to move by you and actually pay for 1/2 a home (a REAL BAD IDEA if so)?
If not, where do you want Mom to move?
Do you want to manage Mom's Money? Are you capable of doing so with all the files and bill paying and taxes and etc?
Dependent on answers to #1., #2. and #3. and if you believe your mother is in danger, you need to make a report to APS. Dependent on that report you may need to file for guardianship.
Dependent on the answers to #1., #2. and #3. and your sister FIGHTS you for guardianship then you may not win, as your mother already appointed her as POA.
If your sister wins guardianship then you will pay court costs. In a fought guardianship those costs start at 10,000.
If you win guardianship then your Mom's estate will pay for court costs.
If you both fight this way in court the State may take over guardianship of Mom, appointing a paid fiduciary who will not have to listen to either of you.
If you would like family mediation counselor info leave me a private message and I can provide contact information.
What it sounds like to me is that your sister is GREATLY relieved to be shed of Mom's care; you stepped in and she gave it all to you. It sounds to me you may not have a clue to Mom's current condition and rationality. However, without POA you have no info as to Mom's assets, where she can be best placed, medical records, current mentation or anything else without the good will of your sister ( which clearly is not there now, and clearly never will there there).
This, adding your response below to other questions, sounds like a perfect storm of a mess. I cannot imagine how it can be managed in any way to be frank.
If your Mom is sending anyone frantic begging emails pleading for help she needs evaluation of the situation by Adult Protective Services. Give her the number for APS or call for her.
As you can imagine, no one on Forum is going to have any magic wands on this one. Only you know your family situation. We have one side of your sitation-- your side, and I can't even begin to comb out what's happened/is happening here.
It sounds as though eventually the courts will be involved in this mess; do know they often have no answers either. Their way of throwing their arms up in the air in bickering like this is to take EVERYTHING from everyone and plunking it onto the docket of the poor Fiduciary. I know one. He can't even publish his own address anywhere due to the fact that the utter insanity of families means that HE may be the one to get shot in the head, not the dog as described below.
Sorry. Warring siblings are my pet peeve. I feel sorry for your Mom.
Document everything: date, time, what was done or said as completely as you can, and witnesses.
To be honest I could not read the full blocks of text. Best wishes to you.