Daughters of narcissistic mothers. What are the effects?

gogurlz, it's the way of many parents. They were removed emotionally, but if you are to try to say how they were not so good, all you can do is shrug. They did put the food on the table, but there was no playing, warmth, or encouragement. Often there was nothing but discouragement. If you say you want to be a writer, they say you can never make a living. If you say you want to be a doctor, they say you can only be a nurse -- no disrespect to nurses intended. They do the obligatory stuff, but they aren't there for you in any other way. I have a feeling that parents like this are probably wrapped up in themselves and only doing what they are supposed to do. I don't know if they feel love, since they don't show it if they do. I think there are a lot of parents like this now, since their kids are out looking for love in all the wrong places. Kids do need to feel that someone loves them.

My own mother has lots of "milk" - took care of the family providing food (in later years we were to shocked to hear her say she hated cooking, but had to do it to feed family) and clothing, clean house. But very little "honey" in form of affirming like saying "I love you" or giving hugs or commenting on something nice or good we had done. She actually said one time that "I don't say anything good about my kids. They'll just do something bad and ruin it". Dad would say "Play that song on the piano for your Aunt Gladys" but not Mom. When went away to college ( I worked and got scholarship money. OK parents did not help much), she would say I'd think I'm too good for the family. Wow just realized where my brother may have gotten his mistaken idea that we college sisters are better than him - skilled trade but no college! She still criticizes prefessional people that they are stuck up etc. When I'd come home to vist as adult she once commented "you hug your dad but not me." Well it was my dad who always hugged me and she did not. Now caring for both parentswith sibs and finally some paid hel, since we can't do it all. At least I cannot. Two sibs, including brother and my mom say it is kids duty to care for elderly parents.I want to and do help but don't feel I am duty bound to give over my whole life to their care. I need to nourish my own health and relationships or I will be left sick and lonely myself.

Hi, I've sent a message but am slowly reading these message : here i am ....feeling so in touch with you !
My parents when married were both Pathological narcissists....both jealous of me....their only daughter. From this site, I got the strength to cut my Mum.....

I wish I could get to where Palmtrees1 is and be angry but I feel that my whole life is just about grieving.......

Hello, how are you? I am a 49 year old lady who's mother has scapegoated me all of my life. She has worked really hard to 'cause sibling rivalry in my 3 brothers and has succeeded in her favourite. My Psychotherapist I have seen for over 18 years tells me she has elements of being a Psychopath and is a Pathological narcissist. She has tried to break me ......Im just trying to come to grips with it .......me thinks

Heart2Heart, you really provided spot on insights. It took me a long time to figure out why I was gaslighted and challenged all of my life. When life should have been easy my mother made it difficult--the exact opposite of what mothers should do. Some parents are not suited for the challenges of parenting children. The damage that these mothers do is so horrible. It can take a lifetime to recover...if ever. It's great that this syndrome is getting know more and more because I'd never heard of it until recently. It's great to see forums like this one because sometime siblings aren't helpful at all and anyone who has not suffered through it will have a hard time understanding since these mothers know how to present a great image to others. People always tell me how nice my mother is. Ha! They didn't have to live with her and she doesn't need to control them.

Hi Cyndi... I'm so glad you can breathe and be happy in your life after such a difficult 'childhood' (we all a can relate). Your testimony helps all out there that are struggling with this malady of errors... Keep well and try to fit in all you can to have a good life. Blessings always...

It's rare that a narc mother will actually try to be a better person. I only read one story like that, and the adult child still despises her most of the time.

So true TL... Things coming from your childhood like this and being treated like this from the person you look up to the most... can destroy so much in a person's life. I know now that I had a very dysfunctional family to say the least... as well. My mother has never supported me or given me guidance... and, then went on to blame me for everything that ever went 'wrong' (in her eyes)... and, still does... this is so draining!... and, such a waste of our precious life... We deserve to be happy and able to peacefully come to acceptance that this is their problem, so we can go on to life the rest of our lives happy.

I just remembered something from kindergarten. She was told that they were going to hold me back from moving onto the 1st grade because I wouldn't raise my hand and after the meeting, I could tell she was angry and I apologized, scared. She just glared at me and stomped to the car. Never stopped to hug me and say that everything was going to be all right. No, just angry. Now, she doesn't see me as useful to her image and she wants me out of the house. I can tell I'm not welcome after I told her she's been gaslighting me since I can remember. Now I know why I dated, and it was just to feel desired, find that emotional and physical intimacy. I yearned for it. Now I know why I always felt empty for so long.

... I assumed I’d done something to make her treat me the way she did. Now, I know she did what she felt like, without any thought of me, but I still hear her voice in my head especially when life gets difficult or I feel insecure.”
7. Self-involved

Call her a narcissist if you wish. This mother sees her daughter—if she sees her at all—as an extension of herself and nothing more. Unlike the enmeshed mother who is intently and smotheringly focused on her child, this mother carefully controls her involvement as it suits her own self-reflection. A power player, she’s incapable of empathy; instead, very concerned with appearances and the opinions of others. Her emotional connection to her daughter is superficial—although she would fiercely deny that if you asked—because her focus is on herself. The tactics she uses to manipulate and control her daughter permit her to self-aggrandize and feel good about herself.

These mothers often look great from the outside—they are usually attractive and charming when you meet them, take great care of their homes, and may have admirable talents and careers—which serves to confuse and isolate the unloved daughter even more. It is, alas, easier to recognize that you are playing the role of Cinderella (and it was an evil mom, not a stepmother, until the Grimm Brothers cleaned up the tale) when you are living in the cellar and everyone knows your mother is a hag.

8. Role-reversed

Anecdotally, this is the pattern of maternal interaction I hear about the least—the scenario in which the daughter, even at a young age, becomes the helper, the caretaker, or even “the mother” to her own mother. Sometimes, this pattern emerges when the mother has children very young and more of them than she can actually handle. That was true for Jenna, now in her late thirties, who reported:

"By the time my Mom was 26, she had four kids, little money, and no support. I was the oldest and by the time I was five, I was her helper. I learned to cook, do laundry, and clean. As I got older, the dynamic stayed the same, only more so. She called me her 'rock' but she never paid attention to me, just to my younger siblings. Now that I’m an adult, she still doesn’t mother me but acts more like a very critical, older friend. I think she robbed me of my childhood.”

More famously, but in the same vein, Mary Karr’s memoir The Liar’s Club depicts both Mary and her older sister stepping in to mother themselves or their mother.

Daughters of alcoholic mothers or those who suffer from untreated depression may also find themselves in the caretaker role, regardless of their age. That may include mothering not just their mothers but their siblings, as well. There are “fragile” mothers who also interact in this way, claiming health or other issues. Ironically, these mothers may love their daughters but lack the capacity to act on their feelings. While these behaviors are hurtful, with therapy or intervention, many daughters report reconciliation in adulthood as well as understanding.

A Few Thoughts

Despite what we prefer to believe, the female of our species isn’t hardwired to love her offspring; it is the child, not the mother, whom evolution has equipped with a powerful need as an aid to survival. It’s estimated that half of us, plus or minus, hit the jackpot and have mothers who range from “great” to “good enough.” This is not to say that these mothers are “perfect”—human beings, by definition, make mistakes—or that they don’t sometimes, at one moment or another, exhibit any of these kinds of interaction. It happens, but it doesn’t constitute a pattern.

But for those of us who didn’t fare as well in the lottery, there is hope and healing. To those who have trouble understanding, please listen and don’t put these daughters on trial because they challenge what you would like to believe about mothering and motherhood.

Please exhibit the trait these mothers lack. It’s called empathy.
(Sorry I had to repost this the long way, but I thought it may help others here)

Continued...

Literal abandonment leaves its own special scars, especially in a culture which believes in the automatic nature of mother love and instinctual behavior. In addition to being excruciatingly painful, it is also bewildering. That was true for Eileen, 39, who has sorted through many of these issues and, as a mother herself, now has limited contact with her mother. Eileen’s parents divorced when she was four and she lived with her mother until she was six when her mother decided that her father was the “appropriate” parent after all. It was devastating for the six-year-old, particularly since her father remarried and had already had a first child in his new marriage. There would be two more. But the big question for Eileen was this: “I could never understand why my Mom didn’t want to be around. I felt a huge part was missing in my life and that only my Mom could fill it.”
All of these behaviors leave daughters emotionally hungry and sometimes desperately needy. The luckiest daughters will find another family member—a father, a grandparent, an aunt or an uncle—to step into the emotional breach which helps but doesn’t heal; many don’t. These insecurely attached daughters often become clingy in adult relationships, needing constant reassurance, from friends and lovers alike.

4. Enmeshed

While the first two types of behaviors describe mothers who distance themselves from their children, enmeshment is the opposite: these mothers do not acknowledge any kind of boundary between them, their definition of self, and their children. In this case, the daughter’s need for love and attention facilitates a maternal chokehold, exploiting human nature in the service of another goal. These women are classic “stage mothers” and live through their children’s achievements, which they both demand and encourage; while they have a long history—the mothers of Gypsy Rose Lee, Judy Garland, and Frances Farmer come immediately to mind—they now have especial renown (and no shame) thanks to reality television. Vivian Gornick’s memoir, Fierce Attachments, should be required reading for any daughter who grew up with a mother like this.

While the daughter of a dismissive or unavailable mother “disappears” because of inattention and under-parenting, the enmeshed daughter’s sense of self is swallowed whole. Untangling enmeshment—the term alone conveys the difficulty—is another road entirely because of the absence of boundaries. A healthy and attuned maternal relationship offers security and freedom to roam at once—the infant is released from her mother’s arms to crawl, the adolescent counseled but listened to and respected—and this pattern does not. That’s all missing in the enmeshed relationship.

5. Combative

“Open” warfare characterizes this kind of interaction, though I have put “open” in quotation marks for a reason. These mothers never acknowledge their behaviors, and they are usually quite careful about displaying them in public. Included in this group are the mothers who actively denigrate their daughters, are hypercritical, intensely jealous of, or competitive with their offspring. Yes, this is mean mother territory; the mother takes advantage of the power play. I know—the words “power play” and “mother” seem incongruous combined in a single sentence—but I leave you in the capable hands of Deborah Tannen, with a quotation I use often because I simply can’t phrase it better or with her authority:
A child is no match for this warrior queen and, more dangerously, will internalize the messages communicated by her. Many daughters report that the pain of feeling responsible somehow—the belief that they “made’ their mothers react, or that they are unworthy—is as crippling as the lack of maternal love. Blame and shame was usually this mother’s weapons of choice.

The combative mother uses verbal and emotional abuse to “win” but can resort to physical force as well. She rationalizes her behaviors as being necessary because of defects in her daughter’s character or behavior. This is dangerous territory.

6. Unreliable

This is, in many ways, the hardest behavior for a daughter to cope with, because she never knows if the “good mommy” or the “bad mommy” will show up. All children form mental images of what relationships in the real world look like based on their connections to their mothers; these daughters understand emotional connection to be fraught, precarious, and even dangerous. In an interview for my book, Mean Mothers, “Jeanne” (a pseudonym) said:

“I trace my own lack of self-confidence back to my mother. She was emotionally unreliable—horribly critical of me one day, dismissive the next, and then, out of nowhere, smiling and fussing over me. I now realize that the smiley mom thing usually happened in front of other people who were her audience. Anyway, I never knew what to expect. She could be intolerably present, inexplicably absent, and then playing a part. ... Continued on next post...

Seems like my hyperlink was edited/taken off my post so I'll copy/paste it her so it may help others-
8 Types of Toxic Patterns in Mother-Daughter Relationships:
It’s true enough that all daughters of unloving and unattuned mothers have common experiences. The lack of maternal warmth and validation warps their sense of self, makes them lack confidence in or be wary of close emotional connection, and shapes them in ways that are both seen and unseen.
What are they missing? I will quote Judith Viorst because her description of what an attuned mother communicates through gaze, gesture, and word is pitch perfect:
“'You are what you are. You are what you are feeling.’ Allowing us to believe in our own reality. Persuading us that it is safe to expose our early fragile beginning-to-grow true self.”
The unloved daughter hears something very different, and takes away another lesson entirely. Unlike the daughter of an attuned mother who grows in reflected light, the unloved daughter is diminished by the connection.
Yet, despite the broad strokes of this shared and painful experience, the pattern of connection—how the mother interacts with her daughter—varies significantly from one pair to another. These different behaviors affect daughters in specific ways. I’ve compiled a list of these patterns, drawn from my own experiences and those of the many daughters I’ve spoken to over the years since I first began researching Mean Mothers. Since I’m neither a therapist nor a psychologist, the names I’ve given them aren’t scientific but chosen for clarity. Yet differentiating these patterns in broad terms can help daughters recognize, understand, sort through, and ultimately begin to manage these very problematic and painful interactions. These behaviors aren’t mutually exclusive, of course; my own mother was dismissive, combative, unreliable, and self-involved by turns.
1. Dismissive
“My mother ignored me,” Gwen, 47, confides. “If I did something that I thought would make her proud, she would either dismiss it as insignificant or undercut it in some other way. And I believed her for the longest time.” Daughters raised by dismissive mothers doubt the validity of their own emotional needs. They feel unworthy of attention and experience deep, gut-wrenching self-doubt, all the while feeling intense longing for love and validation. Here’s how one daughter described it:
“My mother literally didn’t listen to me or hear me. She’d ask if I were hungry and if I said I wasn’t, she’d put food in front of me as if I’d said nothing. She would ask what I wanted to do over the weekend or summer, ignore my answer, and then make plans for me. What clothes did I want? The same thing. But that wasn’t the central part: she never asked me how I was feeling or what I was thinking. She made it clear that I was largely irrelevant to her.”
Dismissive behavior, as reported by daughters, occurs across a spectrum, and can become combative if the mother actively and aggressively turns dismissal into rejection. Human offspring are hardwired to need and seek proximity to their mothers, and therein lies the problem: the daughter’s need for her mother’s attention and love isn’t diminished by the mother’s dismissal. In fact, from my own personal experience, I know that it can amp up the need, thrusting the daughter into an active pattern of demand (“Why don’t you care about me/ love me, Mom?” or “Why do you ignore me?”) or a plan to “fix” the situation (“I’ll get all A’s in school or win a prize, and then she’ll love me for sure!”). The response, alas, is inevitably the mother’s further withdrawal, often accompanied by complete denial about what took place.
2. Controlling
In many ways, this is another form of the dismissive interaction although it presents very differently; the key link is that the controlling mother doesn’t acknowledge her daughter any more than the dismissive one does. These mothers micromanage their daughters, actively refuse to acknowledge the validity of their words or choices, and instill a sense of insecurity and helplessness in their offspring. Most of this behavior is done under the guise of being for the child’s “own good;” the message is, effectively, that the daughter is inadequate, cannot be trusted to exercise good judgment, and would simply flounder and fail without her mother’s guidance.
3. Unavailable
Emotionally unavailable mothers, those who actively withdraw at a daughter’s approach or who withhold love from one child while granting it to another, inflict a different kind of damage. Be mindful that all children are hardwired to rely on their mothers thanks to evolution. “My mother wasn’t mean,” one daughter writes, “But she was emotionally disconnected from me and still is.” These behaviors can include lack of physical contact (no hugging, no comforting); unresponsiveness to a child’s cries or displays of emotion, and her articulated needs as she gets older; and, of course, literal abandon. Continued...

Jessie, so true. Also, it seems that our parents' generation has far more "needs" and expectations that their parents did. My grandmother would've thought it wasteful and silly to run to five stores for specific items. For Christmas, she put $2 in a card (usually recycled) for each grandkid. My mom, on the other hand, had us running to multiple stores because "I have to have that brand". For Christmas, we were personal shoppers, running around for just the right present for each of the 17 people on her list. I had to use a spreadsheet to keep her Christmas stuff straight. When we switched her to giving giftcards, oh dear....that's not the way she'd always done it. So I think it's a mix of entitlement with having had the luxury of free time (a couple decades of retirement) colliding with us not having anywhere near the time (or oomph) to do everything they want.

Psychology Today has a lot of great articles that relate to elder care. I particularly like the one I read recently about our parents being the entitlement generation, never thinking or caring about how much they demand of us. I liked what the author said about how things used to always be hidden and handled by family. So when something is needed, call the adult child, never thinking that the adult child has their own life to tend to.

Heart2Head, what a great article! My mother falls clearly in the Controlling category.

Thank you for the great article. It made me sad but I am starting to heal at 57. I realize that I never had a mother in the true sense of the word. She is still able to keep up appearances in front of others but will not hesitate to be mean to me. The sad thing is my sister,the golden girl, has completely sided with mom and tries to invalidate when I try to express my feelings.

My mother seems to all of these traits... Interesting article:psychologytoday

Dubai I am glad you are distancing. I find it is the only answer.

yep, the old gaslight. If the sky is blue, they will say it's black. Listen to that inner voice--not the voices in their heads.

I went through the same thing with the jealous and mean narc mother and sister. I have always been the scapegoat an blamed for all of the problems in thei lives. They even tried to get me to separate from my husband using the inheritance. The gas lighting doesn't end. I am distancing myself emotionally and physically. It seems the older these narc mothers get the meaner they get.

Ct, thanks for the affirmations and DD I know what it's like to try and pretend that your mother is normal and that holidays will be normal but they aren't and you've just got to create your own new traditions. There is a great little book
called Notes From Your Inner Mother by Danu Morrigan. It is filled with great illustrations and affirmations that speak to you like a good mother should have.
They are very uplifting notes. This forum has been wonderful because there are times when it's easy to think that one is alone with this problem. These moms are good at fooling the outside world and I know that my sister will never understand my problem because we were not treated the same way and she is exactly like my mother--critical, demanding, and selfish when it comes to family but quick to paste on a phony smile and able to act pleasant around outsiders. I always thought she should have become an actress-she'd that good!

Hi DDD, CT and everyone... It does feel good to 'finally' acknowledge narcissistic tendencies, accept it and go on... The 'release' of letting go is our freedom. They have made their choices and we have to make ours... (As sad as 'we' see it). Love yourself and feel good about it... Will we have our ups and downs? Absolutely... But, we can't change people even the ones we are related to. Like you, I tried everything... But somehow, after coming close to being very sick, I am learning how precious I AM... DDD... You are Blessed to have your son... and, we are Blessed to have this forum... Love you...

Yes CT we are worthy and there is so much love here and that is the key to it all I think to life. Welll .... a main part.

Heart to Heart I am just so glad I discovered this forum becuase I have grown and it helps. I now have understanding about this narccisse sickness. My mother and sitster have it. I watched my sister get hugged and babied. I have often wondered what its like to get that cudle from a parent. I sure dont remember such things. I did get a lot of your a smart girl though. I just try to give the love to my son that I didnt get. I still have bitter with my mother because even though she is now elderly and frail that narcisse comes out oh my goodness! the set up and manipulation. The other day its trash day. I go out and come back and she done pulled all this garbage from who knows where saying come and get this garbahe you left here. Its amazing cause that came along with many negative comments and shame. Because of this I was able to walk away but these things make me feel bad for that little girl in me who didnt know the deal until now. As for my sister I am now able to dismiss her. Spent loto of years lookin for love from her too. Give give give and nothing in return. Helped raise her kids. Guess what? no more Xmas and Thanksgiving in family. Guess who it was important to, Me. I go get best douglas fir dont know how I got it in and set it up for many years. Now thats all gone. No more pretending. Im afraid I will blow up on my sister if I get or hear any more of the notions that are in her sick mind. I ve been conditioned to put up with it now Im slowly growing thru this. One thing for sure I can do it with my mother as hard as it is but I as far as my sister I am done stick a fork in me. I dont even look at her anymore. There so much betrayal over and over in some very deep ways and principles. I was fooling myself. But no more and its her loss. There was a time when I could make my self reconcile. But how do you do that with a narcissPerson. We have to be able to look at ourselves and acknowledge our wrong. That will never happen with her or my mother. That is why I am to blame for every thing that goes wrong in anyones life in their sick eyes. So now its me trying to process that knowledge ive found here. Would be nice if that prince would show up and swoop me out of this emotional hell. jBut like I have said my prayers and faith have kept me sane through the ugly in my life. I can barely handle my own wrongs and decisions Im not going to be anybodies scapegoat again.. just got to learn what to do with the feelings when I see it.

Ct that bought tears to my eyes.

DDD... Acceptance is a difficult thing to grasp if there's no justification and it's down right wrong for people to treat you mean, especially a mother (it's cruel). Looking back my mistake was being too kind, loving and giving. I never would go have thought that I was grooming myself for so much family hurt. Even after realizing this, it's all too late for reconciliation because it takes two willing sides. But, knowing I am not alone here has helped save my sanity also. Jess... I wish I didn't care about how my mother feels about me... Maybe this will come soon I hope... So I can find peace from torment.

The description was written by Freedom about narcissitic mothers and posted in 2013.

I read this awesome discription Freedom from a 2013 post and it knocked me off my feet. It validated my experience.Becuase its so true no one would believe the things that go on in these type situations but someone whose been though it. So I sent a copy to my son to help him understand where my crazy comes from. I dont even think counseling when I get it will help. Becuase you got all these ugly moments. I try not to even think about it. But when I see children my heart cracks hoping they are not me or wondering what I lacked with my son. I think the one thing that Helped me and him is that I could not do to him what was done to me. I acknowledge him, made sure he knew I love him and I validated him. Now in my crazy I left him with the person who did me in to go to college and there was a lot of damage done just from the few hours when I had late classes. Because my weaknesses were used to hurt him so he would hate me tooo. I thank God it did not come to fruition. I think love heals and protects and that is what saved and saves me. If Im not getting it, I sure as h... am giving it. Thats what saves me.

Heart, Care and Jesse, I was just reading and its so touching. Jesse like you I cant stand to see any body or thing hurt. I allwoed myself to be hindered from going further in my profession by both mother and sister. And its do hard to believe but I too am blamed for every and anything that happens in the family. And see now thaat I wasted my heart and strenght and youth trying to keep my family happy. I also see how it makes me vulunerble and stupid cause Im so used to being put down and insulted that even when I notice it in others I am slow to address it in one way or another and then I end up really hurting feelings if I shock them with a serious no shit attitude. Why is it so hard. And then I don't have a shoulder to cry on or a smile or hug to look forward to. Then get flash backs of feelings from thousands of incidents with my mother and sister. And now after begining this forum I see and understand and Im so grateful to come to grasping what was going on but I still dont seem to be able to accept it. Now Im getting old, my mother is demented and still doing the same thing and I guess I maybe blocked the realness in past years but now I see it as it is so does the torrment ever end. I offset thing by loving everybody else. Its just so good to be able to see myself and my situation inf the forum. It gives good perspective. I see the ways of dealing with it and learn ways to deal. This has really helped me and thanks that I can be honest and open. It is such a relief and a hold to my sanity.

Heart, we should have out own little group: Adult children taking care of elder parents who despise them. My mother also thinks I'm an ogre, and a lot of time I feel like one. It is tricky taking on the parent role while trying to let them think they are still in control of everything. It is hard to be giving so much to them, only to have them say that you are taking everything from them. We can try to be so nice, but it doesn't work. They're mad about something, anyway.

I take my mother to church each Sunday, then out to eat. I don't mind doing it since I get to talk to some people who are fun to talk to. We have valet parking, which makes things easier. The valets are so nice and helpful. They show particular favor to my mother and another elderly woman who is in bad condition. Their heart is right.

Going out to eat is different. I have to do everything, so it's always stressful. No fun at all.

I thought about it just now. You know, I don't really care what my mother thinks of me. I just get tired of everything taking so much time and hearing only bad things. I drains me physically and emotionally. She comes up with all these projects that I need to do, then gets mad at me if I don't hop to them. I know it is because she is not thinking sensibly, but it is still stressful to have her chewing on my leg. So... I don't really care so much what she thinks of me, I just don't want her to drain me with her demands and anger.