Funds are running out to pay for grandmother's independent living. She has nothing to her name and my family wants nothing to do with her. Any advice?

Just wanting to post a quick update. As I was in the middle of taking all your advice (writing the letter, cancelling the ACH...) I got a call from Adult protective services about an"anonymous" report that I have been abusing her finances and stealing her stuff. APS asked for me to prove that the house proceeds were mine and asked for even the HUD settlement sheet showing how much I received from the sale. I denied giving them the settlement paperwork, but did provide receipts for the nearly $60k worth of financial support I've given her so far.

At this point, I am ready to get the rest of her stuff in storage (including a painting she believes is worth $6k that she said I stole) delivered to her door, close the storage unit and let her figure it out. I think with that report, which the detail of the accusations leads me to believe it was her, I could be ok with handing everything over. Her car title and insurance are in my name and of course the remaining $20k from the house sale, just wash my hand of this. Should I be speaking to my attorney at this point or see where it goes? I'd hate to pay for more because of her 🤣

This community has been a true life saver, I can't tell you how much I've appreciated your support and advice!

@igloo,

My mother is a total drama queen too. She's all about the hysterics and semantics and have been her entire life. Elderly people who are like this usually land in a nursing home or memory care facility and rightly so. There comes a time when even the most patient and loving families get tired of a "loved one's" crap and refuse to help anymore. It usually happens when they're elderly because the family already had decades of it and now it's compounded with old age on top of it. So placement it is.
The OP should walk away and let the state decide what will be done with her grandmother.

Call Adult Protective Services and ask them to evaluate her for placement and to assist in filing the Medicaid application. Perhaps they can assign a guardian. Time to contact an Elder Law Attorney for your education.

Any chance your father was a vet? If so, please call the VA to help her.

As I read down the great responses and yours to them I would just add a couple of things.

First, I would not simply turn over the remaining funds from the duplex sale to GM. While I understand a fully support your desire for them to go toward her living needs I don’t think simply handing them over to her is going first accomplish that and second enable you to wash your hands of her care financially. What happens when she blows through that will you be able to let her go homeless then? It doesn’t sound like she is emotionally or cognitively stable and that may have been going on well before her senior years if her children don’t want any part of her. I would instead put it in a separate account in your name, it is after all yours since the duplex was left to you and only you so you have it as back up down the line if and when you need to rescue her again. You can supplement her SS income with just enough to cover the IL rent and maybe 2-300 a month for food etc making it clear that you will only do this for say the end of the lease term there (5-6 months is it?) $900 + #200 = $1100 a month x 6,600. That gives her 6 mos to apply for assistance and given her income I’m pretty sure she will qualify for SNAP or whatever they call food stamps and assistance in Fl very quickly so she won’t starve unless she chooses to. Wether you actually do it or not I would give her a list of the expenses you have been paying for, including rent going back to your first place in FL and deduct that from the chunk of money you are putting aside. You actually or I should say she actually has the best case for applying for Medicaid or other aid because none of the homes were ever in her name or part of her assets which should help her qualify faster for help.

She doesn’t like where she is and feels trapped but she doesn’t want to move to an apartment she can afford or help you get the info you need to apply for assistance…have you asked her what she does want? I’m sure part of her is fearful of loosing her independence even though she hasn’t really had it for a long time given your father and now you have been providing her with a place to live. Still fear can make us unable to move forward and the feeling of independence loss often makes us dig our heels in and not “like” anything. Maybe simply asking what she really wants and then going from there so she feels she has some say. If she want to live with you, that isn’t possible what’s next on her list? Staying where she is also isn’t possible she can’t afford it. This is the time to take out the list of her income and expenses so she can see first hand how much help she is getting from you which you can no longer continue. There are options though that she can take advantage of if she wants and you are very willing to help her navigate all of that and choose the option that makes her happiest but she has to participate and help you do that. Both to set her up for any applications and to give her back her independence you are going to discontinue the automatic withdrawal from your bank account for the rent where she is living and strongly encourage her to have it withdrawn from her account, you will help if she wants and for the remainder of the lease (as long as she’s living there) you will add $1100 a month to that account so she can. If she decides not to take advantage of this opportunity to figure things out or take you up on the offer of help that’s up to her but you don’t want to see her having to take the first thing she can get or worse homeless so you hope she will. Turn the tables if you can so she asks for your help instead of you asking for hers to help her! Of course the obstacle here is you need to be willing to let her fail if she chooses not to help herself. Also this assumes she is cognitively capable of making decisions, good and bad. It may be that she has declined more than you or her other children realize which only means you need to take over providing you have DPOA. Strength!

POA's, while useful, don't really do much if your grandmother isn't cooperating with you. Unless you have her declared unfit and get guardianship, you are pretty powerless despite the POA paperwork to help her if she wants to do this on her own.
Most financial and medical entities are very protective of the elderly now and presume that if your grandmother can articulate her desires; you can't act on their behalf without their consent (POA or not). The only other option is to have her declared incompetent and get guardianship and it doesn't sound like that will happen yet.
It's understandable that institutions are protective due to financial/medical abuse; but it definitely makes it difficult to help her.
My advice is to leave her be for now. When she gets to a point where she realizes she is in trouble she will ask for help. Unfortunately, until then; you should back away.
(As to the bank issue - we have a valid POA and have submitted all the necessary paperwork for my MIL weeks ago and still we wait for the bank to approve so we can get access in order to help her. It's a mess.)
I know this is extremely difficult; but you MUST step away and do not allow her to manipulate you into going back into your home. As others have said, Medicare will take care of her - contact your local office on her behalf and ask them how SHE can get the ball rolling on aid and where to look for a senior living/independent living/assisted living facility in her area. Then give her the information and let her do the legwork (she wants to be in the loop and does not want you to do it for her - trust me - this is a 'thing' for that generation - they need to maintain 'control' of their own destiny and it's ok that they do; it's just hard for us to watch them struggle until they finally ask for help.
Good luck and God bless you for trying to help where you can.

Sounds like you've done all you can. Tell her two sons who want to have nothing to do with her that in 6 months her rent will be past due. They won't care but at least you'll tell them. Then block her calls.

Ok it looks like all your new Auntie’s of Aging Care r in agreement:
1. Gran’s bank account that gets her SS mo income MUST become new account her current IL place draws from.
if I’m not mistaken current ACH draw acct is a bank account in your name, right? Well this actually is good as you will go to the bank & file the paperwork to stop AcH. A bank officer will need to do this with you; it’s a form that attests that the ACH is current, no problems, yada yada. It’s pretty routine stuff for a bank to do.
But
b4 you do this, its on you to do a Notification to any payee’s getting ACH from that account. Like you send IL a certified mailing this week and then do the ACH stop notice next week. So you send IL a certified mailing w/green return registered card (duet from USPS abt $8.00 and best $ you’ve spent this week) and the letter reads: Notification that as of 9/01/2022 the current AcH acct (put bank name in) is being closed and a new AcH draw is to come from Mrs Grannie Weasel, a resident of “name of IL”, from her bank account. If you know the bank name & account # put it in the certified mailing.
so
By doing it certified, you track it’s delivery & by the green card you get it back with a date & signature so it’s legal that IL are aware of changes. Take the receipt & the Notification letter to the bank with you just in case the bank officer questions if notifications occurred. They may or may not….. you’re younger so I bet they will want to see how Notice was sent. I had to do these when my mom moved from her IL to a NH and for MIL on changes in bank accounts after Hurricane Katrina drama, I’m more a bad witch personality so never was questioned, lol.

2. on the duplex $ you gifted to grannie, personally if it was me, this is what I’d do: deposit all that is left LESS 1 months rent at her IL. So if it’s $16,789.00 left and her rent is $2,345.00. Then deposit $ 14,444.00
and that $2,345.00 you do it as a cash withdrawal and set it aside. It’s $ you can turn into a certified check or money order to use as an emergency $. So if IL doesn’t get on doing the new bank account ACH for Sept, you have the $ to make it a certified check / money order to pay grans Sept bill. If they do the ACH, then you have it as emergency $ for her.

3. On IL being unresponsive…. They are being lazy. It’s not on them to say what bank account used by a resident to pay their rent. That current ACH draw is on your bank account; you determine what happens with it; you stop the ACH just like you stopped grans use of your CC. The Notice will force them to do the change.

4. She stops $500 checks now!. Either she herself goes shopping or you buy stuff, get duplicate receipts & she writes u a ck to the penny as per receipt. Btw Target is easy on doing dupe’s.

Should anyone question all this…. You did all to help gran transition from Missouri to Florida & now that she’s ensconced & happy (lol) & still competent and cognitive, she needs to assume responsibility on her financials. All this moves things in this direction.

if you are not used to being all bad witch mode, practice & role play in advance. I know You have a friend who is a real pit bullie type, practice with them.

********
I cannot stress enough how important it is to have bank changes done & ahead of her zero $ point in early 2023. It will be one less difficult issue to deal with. I think grannie is going to be a problem for facility placement once out of $ to pay for her IL; she sounds very much ok for IL so won’t be eligible for LTC Medicaid programs (they have “at need” medically criteria). She’s probably going to need to find fixed income senior housing. Like a 202 program or a Section 8. If gran is a real princessy in attitude, this will get ugly. Your Area in Aging will know of lower income Sr housing. She may need to go on lists asap & you might want to start researching this after bank stuff done.
Good luck & stay focused!

All good suggestions.

If you can get her to move from her IL to a HUD apartment, I would do it. Put her name in now. They charge 30% of your SS for rent. That would be $330 leaving her $770 to live on. Where I live the Electric is a set amount, she would be responsible for that. If she wants Cable, her responsibility. Now there is streaming she may only need basic cable if at all. There are Antennas that bring in local stations. For one person, food should not be too bad. She may be able to get food stamps. But, she will not be able to afford to spend for things she does not need.

You have been very good to Gma. I am assuming she did not own her side of the duplex. Which means you inherited it and used your inheritance to keep her in the IL. She needs to know this. That her son, in a way, supported her but that support in dwindling away. She only has 6 months to make other plans. You are not able to support her. Her only choice at this point is a HUD apartment. Explain if she does not start making plans and gets evicted, the director of the IL or you, will have to call APS and report her as a vulnerable adult who is homeless. APS will take over her life.

First of all, your grandmother will never become homeless at her age. She will be made a ward of the state of Florida if needs be at some point. The state will move her into a nursing home or memory care facility. She will be placed wherever Medicaid is accepted.
At her age if she's started with the refusing to eat along with the hysterics and semantics, she cannot live in an apartment on her own. The best thing you could do for her, really the only thing you can do for her at this point is put her in touch with a social worker.
She needs more help then you can give her. Even call APS if yiu have to.

One thing you should do, for her sake as well as for you and your family, is to make it very clear what you will NOT do. In writing, keeping a copy. I would do it on paper, snail mail. It looks so much more impressive than transient messages on the net, and doesn’t get lost if you keep copies safe.

What you need to make clear is a quick summary of what you have done (eg attempt to get her to sign papers for accommodation) and what you will NOT do now. This last needs to be crystal clear – she cannot enter your house, you will not take financial responsibility for her, pay her bills or give her money. You will NOT waste more time suggesting options. You will NOT take her phone calls, or calls about her. She must now take responsibility for herself. Add the list of phone numbers that might help her.

Many people (including husbands, grandmothers and social workers) refuse to believe that you will not rise to the occasion and help, if push comes to shove. You owe it to everyone involved to make it clear that it is NOT an option.

Fabulous that you are NOT on any of her IL paperwork!

Thanks for the updates. So ok so is this accurate….. gran was & is not at all legally on your current home or the one you sold, right?
and
the bank account used to pay IL via ACH is in your name & so tried to your own SS#, right?
well if so, imho, ya need to change that ASAP.

Where is her SS mo income going into?
The same account?
Or does weasel of a grandma have her SS $ going into another acct she controls totally?
Bank acct her own SSA income goes into needs to be imho, the acct the ACH gets drawn from. So either
1. IL ACH gets moved over to the in her name account w/SS$ deposits
or
2 she opens up a fresh account for her SSA and the IL ACH
or
3. acct stays as it is but you remove yourself entirely as owner and she becomes the owner. Ask a bank officer what would be simplest….. if they ask just say you want to avoid any semblance of co-mingling.

You need to do this soon as the train wreck is 6 months from now. The acct her SSA $ goes into & IL payment drawn from needs to be in her name and under her SS# before the wreck. If your her POA you can be a signatory on the account - not a Co owner but just a signatory. Personally I’d be a signatory. You do not necessarily let IL know.

so out of kindness of your heart, as gran had NO LEGAL ownership of the duplex, nor on any home you & your hubs own, you have gifted her $ from duplex sale of which she has & is using to pay her IL?
Is that right? You are a wonderfully thought granddaughter.

if you are continuing to gift her $ regularly beyond what you already have, stop! It will pose issues for any Medicaid application. It looks like “income” and likely a caseworker will delve into just why would a young grandkid with her own family to support do this…. It look like maybe something shady happened on Missouri duplex real estate transaction. FL caseworker can’t easily see legal filing in the old duplex state.

That irregular $500 from her to you looks like gifting. You need to do a ledger of things those $500 paid for. Shoes, toiletries, magazines, eyeglasses, whatever. From now on out, when she needs stuff, she pays for them. Not you. You may need to take her shopping; or she cashes a check to the penny on separate receipts if you shop for her. I imagine the business office of the IL can cause a smallish check for a resident. But please stop depositing them into your own acct. Again looks like gifting. You just want to do whatever u can to keep that from becoming an issue.

Please pls try to get this done. It will set her on a path to deal with the financial aspect of Medicaid. Then you can gear up for helping her figuring out how to qualify medically for LTC Medicaid or income based housing if she’s not at need for a SNF yet.

Also realize the place she is in has had other residents run out of $. Someone in admissions will have suggestions.

Please tell me she signed herself on the independent living contract. Since this is technically your account you have been paying for her out of...will you still be responsible when your funds run out? You need to talk to the facility now to get the funding moved to one of her accounts asap.

Great advice here. I would agree to contact the local Office on Aging for suggestions and resources. I appreciate your concern for her but I reiterate -DO NOT LET HER INTO YOUR HOME AGAIN FOR ONE MINUTE (yes, I'm shouting so you won't forget) not even for a drink of water. Your son is your first priority.

Also unless she has been officially diagnosed as incompetent, even APS (adult protective services) may be limited in what they can do. Unfortunately, competent folks can chose to be homeless.

You are not a divine power. You have done all you humanly can do.

So, you need to give her the six months notice that she will be out of funds for her current apartment and she should investigate how to get a cheaper place to live and/or get on Medicaid for nursing home care (if she qualifies). You can give her the name and phone number of any social workers or agency on aging people that you have spoken with and then you just walk away. NOT YOUR PROBLEM. If she shows up on your doorstep do not open the door. You've used your inheritance from your grandfather to help care for her and you've been more than generous with your time and energy. You can't facilitate any transition for her, she has to start taking responsibility. And it sounds like she's been manipulating and taking advantage of everyone her entire life so she'll figure something out.

You’ve done all you can do. She won’t let you help, so it’s up to her to decide if/when she ever does.

So your gran legally is 50% owner on the home in FL where you & your family lives?
if this is correct, does she or has she paid her 50% of all property costs? Like has she paid 50% of property taxes, insurance, etc?
if not, you have your own records to show you & hubs have paid all, right?

The home your dad had…. She lived in 1/2 of the duplex but she was not a legal owner, right? She was never ever an owner?
but you gave her 1/2 of the proceeds of its sale and that’s the $ she is using to pay for the place she is in now, right?
what exactly is that $500 she pays sometimes for? And is there anything in writings as to the $500.

You have no POA with her, right?
and you are not a signatory on any of her banking, right?
her current rent is paid via AcH from whose bank account? And what is the source of $ deposited into this account?
is there any co-mingling on any banking or co-ownership on anything, like a credit card, a utilities, cable, phone accounts?

Shes 84 and able to live independently, right? Is where she currently lives more of a Senior community where there’s mainly folks way way better off financially than she is?

i ask all this as I’m trying to discern just how responsible you actually are for her….. you’re going to need an atty but what kind to me very independent on the answers,

Mstrbill has some good advice, I think, about the state social worker and contacting the Agency on Aging and/or Adult Protective Services *APS*

I will say this: Don't take her into your home when she shows up at your door with a sob story, homeless, and acting all nice & contrite. She will go back to her old ways in a New York minute once the door closes and she's nice and comfy back in your house. You can't have that again. Keep in mind what happened last time, okay?

I know it's hard to say No to a loved one, but in this case, mental illness or dementia is making it necessary for you to do so.

Best of luck with a difficult situation. I hope your grandmother finds her way out of this whole mess.

You may need a state social worker to intervene. It is good that you are planning early, you still have time. Visit your local Agency on Aging, they may have a social worker there. If not, if it gets down to the wire and nothing has changed, contact elder protective service and let them know grandma is a vulnerable adult.