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My father is in a nursing home and owns a farm he draws ss and part of his retirement check. He has a loan against it and is paying the interest .the farm is in his will to be left to his children. How can i save my inheritance
Kandilu - in a nutshell, is this the situation?: 15 acre non-working farm & remnants of burned down home on it, owned by elder w/debt on property; & is on Medicaid & Medicare in NH w/late stage prostate cancer? Correct?
If that's about it, won't be any inheritance unless the 15 acres is prime site selection real estate nearby an interstate & with active oil & gas pumping & royalties. Probably not the situation? Sadly won't be any inheritance. The debt owed on land has to be paid first & foremost otherwise the lender will foreclose. Then atop that Medicaid via MERP is required to do an attempt to be reimbursed for costs paid from any assets of your fathers estate. If all dad has is the old farm, then MERP can attempt a recovery of whatever is left after loan is paid off.
A lot of this is a math problem based on the loan, realistic value & sale ability of the farm and other debts owed plus his Medicaid tally.
What I would actally be concerned about is if you or other family have been paying or fronting any costs on the farm and your (or your siblings) being able to be later reinbursed for those costs paid on the behalf of your father for his farm either from his estate OR from a sale of the farm while he is alive if there is any $ left after paying off the loan. You need some sort of signed off on agreement or perhaps even a promissory note between you & dad on this to be able to be a secured creditor to be repaid by his estate otherwise it's all a gift to him by you; OR if he repays you while he's alive looks like gifting from him to you by Medicaid unless you have an agreement done.
Loaning within families tend to be somewhat casual & more of a gentlemans agreement. But that can be quite a big problem once other creditors -like a mortgage, HELOC,NH, MERP - get involved. So review carefully if you or your siblings are in the situation and speak with an atty to see if anything can be done now. It may be just too after the fact. Sometimes there just is no value except for sentimentality.
In my experience with farms & ranches, they can be an exempt asset for medicaid IF they are an actual "working" family farm or ranch. Usually need to show taxes as verify "working" status otherwise they are viewed as just land and so an nonexempt asset for medicaid...which means they need to be sold before medicaid will ever get approved. Now if their homestead is on the farm or ranch land and it's all one contiguous parcel for tax assessor purposes, the whole shebang is usually an exempt asset for medicid IF the assessment is under Medicaid property value limits. Those limits depend on your state, as medicaid runs uniquley for each state, most have assessed value at 550k maximum for Medicaid but some states have it higher. (750/850k). It's not usual -like in TX - for ranches to be huge as its in sections (1section = 640acres) rather than just acres, and even if it's like 10 sections it's still ok by Medicaid. For TX Medicaid renewal, this is common enough that ranch land status is a question within the annual NH medicaid renewal form.
Family farms & ranches are an exemption from MERP / Medicaid estate recovery but someone in the family will need to file for the exemption and provide whatever documentation needed for MERP. Or make MERP go to probate and be another claimant against the estate.
However, either family from their own wallet OR farm profit will need to cover ALL costs on the farm from day 1 of Medicaid till when dad dies and then through the probate period for however long that runs. Most families end up placing the house up for sale within short order. But family can opt not to & house remains an exempt asset for the rest of the elders lifetime but they will need to deal with MERPs recovery attempt after they die.
Now regarding "value", the tax assessor value is usually what is used. Assessor value is based on land & " improvements" (aka the house & outbuildings). But if you feel that is totally whack, then you can get a appraisal done. If the property has decades of delayed maintenance or never renovated and is in an area where the other houses all have been with lots of tear downs/rebuilds then the tax assessor figure will NOT be accurate. I'd suggest you get the house inspected first and then in turn you give the inspection report to the appraiser. Both inspector & appraiser need to be registered & licensed for your state. The appraiser report is a legal document and if it comes in at 25% or 85% less than what tax assessor has, your appraisers lower figure rules. This is called a "conservative" appraisal and often done for probate to get a real-time value for an asset of the estate. The costs vary and usually have a base figure (maybe $ 300 for each) then goes up based on sq footage of house &/or size of tax parcel.
Good luck. Keeping parents home is not simple or easy on its own and for farms /ranches it really gets costly & complicated.
in indiana my cuz and i were told that for continuity purposes , a family member could buy the homestead even at sharply below market value and i quote the aps lady ( " not for one dollar tho " ) . i took that to mean that medicaide was real negotiable about actual value where family is concerned .
Careful about putting someone else's name on the deed. It could be interpreted as giving them half the property as a gift and then elegability for continued Medicaid could become a issue.
Is anyone working the farm now? That makes a difference in Medicaid's rules about recovery after the recipient dies.
If Medicaid is paying the NH, then the NH agreed to accept that as payment, and I don't understand why they are advising about the Dad's finances at all. Did Dad have a bill with them before he became eligible for Medicaid? (And just to be clear, Dad is on MEDICAID, right? -- not Medicare.)
Medicaid is set up so that sick elders who cannot financially manage their own care are not left living in a cardboard box under a highway overpass. The elder is expected to use all of his or her assets and resources before taxpayer money is used. No giving it to a friend; no saving it for children. All resources are be used, and Medicaid will supplement that with tax money as necessary.
Medicaid allows the continued ownership of a house and a car. But the stipulation is that after the elder dies the state (which is the entity that administers the federal Medicaid program) must try to recover their costs from any assets remaining, which is basically the house.
You are asking, in effect, how can Dad accept taxpayer money for his care and still be able to give his children an inheritance? How can you all get around the rules?
For this you are going to have to consult an attorney who specializes in Elder Law. The specialty is very important. You have to know the rules very, very well in order to navigate them.
Again, I don't see how the nursing home fits into this picture at all. They are getting paid through Medicaid, right? Maybe you can clarify that a bit. Did Dad fail to turn over the portion of his income that he was supposed to turn over to the nursing home? Is that what he was using to pay the interest?
With no knowledge of these situations, if it were me I'd see about amending his will using the power of attorney and/or loan with the bank to remove him as property owner or add your brother so its not just his asset alone. I dont know if that makes sense but I'd def try to inquire with bank. There must be a way
Kandilu~I truly hate to say this, but I will be forthright with my answer. The nursing home has a legal right to get paid, like any one else does, for the service(s) they provide for an individual person. If the nursing home isn't being paid (in full) for (all of) the services they offer, they can/will take someone's property, sell it, & recover their loss(es). Sadly, while it may be willed to someone else, within the family, they need to be paid off.
My suggestion, try to pay the bill off with them, some way, some how, without them (legally) taking the property. I truly would have liked to offer a better/more helpful suggestion/solution.
They want my brother to sell the farm and give nursing home the money he cotacted a lawyer but he sent him a rejection letter said let them have it not worth nothing
My brother is his power of attorney he will be74 in july he has dementia and prostate cancer he doesnt talk any more and has a feeding tube in he has had some small strokes
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
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This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
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You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
If that's about it, won't be any inheritance unless the 15 acres is prime site selection real estate nearby an interstate & with active oil & gas pumping & royalties. Probably not the situation? Sadly won't be any inheritance.
The debt owed on land has to be paid first & foremost otherwise the lender will foreclose. Then atop that Medicaid via MERP is required to do an attempt to be reimbursed for costs paid from any assets of your fathers estate. If all dad has is the old farm, then MERP can attempt a recovery of whatever is left after loan is paid off.
A lot of this is a math problem based on the loan, realistic value & sale ability of the farm and other debts owed plus his Medicaid tally.
What I would actally be concerned about is if you or other family have been paying or fronting any costs on the farm and your (or your siblings) being able to be later reinbursed for those costs paid on the behalf of your father for his farm either from his estate OR from a sale of the farm while he is alive if there is any $ left after paying off the loan. You need some sort of signed off on agreement or perhaps even a promissory note between you & dad on this to be able to be a secured creditor to be repaid by his estate otherwise it's all a gift to him by you; OR if he repays you while he's alive looks like gifting from him to you by Medicaid unless you have an agreement done.
Loaning within families tend to be somewhat casual & more of a gentlemans agreement. But that can be quite a big problem once other creditors -like a mortgage, HELOC,NH, MERP - get involved. So review carefully if you or your siblings are in the situation and speak with an atty to see if anything can be done now. It may be just too after the fact. Sometimes there just is no value except for sentimentality.
Family farms & ranches are an exemption from MERP / Medicaid estate recovery but someone in the family will need to file for the exemption and provide whatever documentation needed for MERP. Or make MERP go to probate and be another claimant against the estate.
However, either family from their own wallet OR farm profit will need to cover ALL costs on the farm from day 1 of Medicaid till when dad dies and then through the probate period for however long that runs. Most families end up placing the house up for sale within short order. But family can opt not to & house remains an exempt asset for the rest of the elders lifetime but they will need to deal with MERPs recovery attempt after they die.
Now regarding "value", the tax assessor value is usually what is used. Assessor value is based on land & " improvements" (aka the house & outbuildings). But if you feel that is totally whack, then you can get a appraisal done. If the property has decades of delayed maintenance or never renovated and is in an area where the other houses all have been with lots of tear downs/rebuilds then the tax assessor figure will NOT be accurate. I'd suggest you get the house inspected first and then in turn you give the inspection report to the appraiser. Both inspector & appraiser need to be registered & licensed for your state. The appraiser report is a legal document and if it comes in at 25% or 85% less than what tax assessor has, your appraisers lower figure rules. This is called a "conservative" appraisal and often done for probate to get a real-time value for an asset of the estate. The costs vary and usually have a base figure (maybe $ 300 for each) then goes up based on sq footage of house &/or size of tax parcel.
Good luck. Keeping parents home is not simple or easy on its own and for farms /ranches it really gets costly & complicated.
pull a WACO ,
on their a&&es ,
EE - I - EE - I - OO
i took that to mean that medicaide was real negotiable about actual value where family is concerned .
If Medicaid is paying the NH, then the NH agreed to accept that as payment, and I don't understand why they are advising about the Dad's finances at all. Did Dad have a bill with them before he became eligible for Medicaid? (And just to be clear, Dad is on MEDICAID, right? -- not Medicare.)
Medicaid is set up so that sick elders who cannot financially manage their own care are not left living in a cardboard box under a highway overpass. The elder is expected to use all of his or her assets and resources before taxpayer money is used. No giving it to a friend; no saving it for children. All resources are be used, and Medicaid will supplement that with tax money as necessary.
Medicaid allows the continued ownership of a house and a car. But the stipulation is that after the elder dies the state (which is the entity that administers the federal Medicaid program) must try to recover their costs from any assets remaining, which is basically the house.
You are asking, in effect, how can Dad accept taxpayer money for his care and still be able to give his children an inheritance? How can you all get around the rules?
For this you are going to have to consult an attorney who specializes in Elder Law. The specialty is very important. You have to know the rules very, very well in order to navigate them.
Again, I don't see how the nursing home fits into this picture at all. They are getting paid through Medicaid, right? Maybe you can clarify that a bit. Did Dad fail to turn over the portion of his income that he was supposed to turn over to the nursing home? Is that what he was using to pay the interest?
Definitely consult an Elder Law attorney.
My suggestion, try to pay the bill off with them, some way, some how, without them (legally) taking the property. I truly would have liked to offer a better/more helpful suggestion/solution.