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Mom has a home worth 250K with a 283K mortgage debt. The house is rented out no need to sell. She must go into skilled nursing at this point so with no equity will Medicaid view the condo as an exempt asset.
gladimhere is right, at least as far as I know. Medicaid will want whatever money they can get from a sale of the home. Timing of the sale would likely be up to them. Carol
rick - you asked another ? on this same property a few days ago regarding exemption on the house.
Their home is an exempt property for Medicaid by & large in most states. But IF they go onto NH Medicaid, they are required to do a co-pay or their "SOC" (share of cost in Medicaid speak) of all their monthly income to the NH less a very small personal needs allowance. The PNA varies by state and runs from $ 35 - 90 a month. Mom will have no - nada - zilch of $ to pay for anything on the house. Mom will not be able to pay the mortgage anymore.
If the property is rented, the rental $ is income and needs to be a part of mom's required co-pay. Rental needs to be all above board too - which can mean local ordinances and tax filings. Now funds can be kept to pay for mortgage, insurance, taxes & maintenance but there will be strict reporting on all this to Medicaid. And the "rent" needs to be at fair market rates. No no renting to grandson for $ 100 a month. If mom's regular monthly income (her SS and retirement income) is already high (like my mom's is $ 1,800 a month which is $ 363.00 below her state's Medicaid allowed maximum of $ 2,163.00 monthly income), then renting at fair market rates (say it's 1K for 3 bedroom house) would take them over the allowed monthly income so they would be disqualified from Medicaid.
Continuing to outlay & deal with a property that is underwater on its mortgage; reportable rental income for taxes & Medicaid; & also subject to the required Medicaid Estate Recovery program, just makes no sense to me. How do you see mom's house to be an advantage?
Keeping & paying for a empty parents home that is owned outright and there are probably exclusions, exemptions or hardships that could be filed to offset the MERP claim or lien can make sense, IF you have the deep enough pockets to pay for everything for however long the elder lives (could be 5 mos or 5 years); AND there is something about the property that make sense to keep it; AND have a probate attorney who knows how to deal with MERP. It's still a gamble with MERP but you at least do have some things going in your favor with documentable exemptions, exclusions and hardships. But an underwater mortgage situation is a whole different creature.
For most, the parents home is sold with the proceeds used to pay off the mortgage &/or use for their spend-down for Medicaid. Your mom's property is so underwater, that you likely will never see a dime back on your time or your costs paid on anything house. Why keep the house?
I would think that even if the house is worth less than the mortgage that Medicaid will watch the property for a sale. Property values are changing drastically in some areas of the country. Next year the value may increase Medicaid at time of death will try to recover any money that it can to pay the nursing home bill. And if you decide to sell, see an elder lawbattorney that specializes in the politically correct term Medicaid Planning.
ric - I'd also like to suggest that you take pencil to paper and get the hard costs on mom's house / condo. Taxes, insurance, utilities, etc. Go through the last 2 years to see what it really costs and especially what the HOA dues are. I'd speak with whomever is the head of the HOA to see if the condo is about to need to do an assessment to cover a capital improvement (like next year is the required 10 year replacement on all water heaters so fees extra next year). Also mom may be required to let the HOA be aware that the state has the ability for a claim or lien on the property by MERP. Condo property rights can be quite different than those for a traditional single family home.
If the house is producing income, Medicaid will leave it alone as long as ALL the income goes to the nursing home. ALL of the income!!! That leaves no funds to pay the mortgage or taxes. Your best bet is to call the bank and arrange for a "short sale". If they agree to it, sell it asap
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Carol
Their home is an exempt property for Medicaid by & large in most states. But IF they go onto NH Medicaid, they are required to do a co-pay or their "SOC" (share of cost in Medicaid speak) of all their monthly income to the NH less a very small personal needs allowance. The PNA varies by state and runs from $ 35 - 90 a month. Mom will have no - nada - zilch of $ to pay for anything on the house. Mom will not be able to pay the mortgage anymore.
If the property is rented, the rental $ is income and needs to be a part of mom's required co-pay. Rental needs to be all above board too - which can mean local ordinances and tax filings. Now funds can be kept to pay for mortgage, insurance, taxes & maintenance but there will be strict reporting on all this to Medicaid. And the "rent" needs to be at fair market rates. No no renting to grandson for $ 100 a month. If mom's regular monthly income (her SS and retirement income) is already high (like my mom's is $ 1,800 a month which is $ 363.00 below her state's Medicaid allowed maximum of $ 2,163.00 monthly income), then renting at fair market rates (say it's 1K for 3 bedroom house) would take them over the allowed monthly income so they would be disqualified from Medicaid.
Continuing to outlay & deal with a property that is underwater on its mortgage; reportable rental income for taxes & Medicaid; & also subject to the required Medicaid Estate Recovery program, just makes no sense to me. How do you see mom's house to be an advantage?
Keeping & paying for a empty parents home that is owned outright and there are probably exclusions, exemptions or hardships that could be filed to offset the MERP claim or lien can make sense, IF you have the deep enough pockets to pay for everything for however long the elder lives (could be 5 mos or 5 years); AND there is something about the property that make sense to keep it; AND have a probate attorney who knows how to deal with MERP. It's still a gamble with MERP but you at least do have some things going in your favor with documentable exemptions, exclusions and hardships. But an underwater mortgage situation is a whole different creature.
For most, the parents home is sold with the proceeds used to pay off the mortgage &/or use for their spend-down for Medicaid. Your mom's property is so underwater, that you likely will never see a dime back on your time or your costs paid on anything house. Why keep the house?