Mom‘s neighbor got in touch today saying mom was found outside at 2 am going through the neighbor’s trash saying kids are in there. Any advice?

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Mom‘s neighbor got in touch today saying mom was found outside at 2 am going through the neighbor’s trash saying kids are in there. Any advice?

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She was going to drive to diner, but car didn’t start. She was in pjs and a robe. Neighbor walked her across the street back home. APS has been involved prior to today & called them with this new incident - waiting for a call back.

I have POA, but mom won’t go to neurologist or any other doc because she says they will throw her in a hospital. The primary administered a moCa and scored 22 in March (when she went to doc to get script filled).

Question is, who do I call next?

Alzheimer's & Dementia Care Decisions Dementia Wandering Power of Attorney (POA)

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Katmihur, key fobs have batteries in them. Is it possible to see if it can be removed? Unlock the car first.

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Remove the battery from the car.

How is mom getting food?

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APS has talked to mom about food services. Crises center handed her a bunch of resource flyers. I’ve asked my uncle, who mom talks to a lot, to encourage mom to apply, or help her apply, for these services. My aunt has talked to her about getting on the same free meal program that she utilizes. But mom has not used anything meant for seniors.

I feel she sees it as a weakness and insists on not taking help. She’s said she can care for herself. So, she depends on people taking her to the diner or going out to eat. I have seen a dozen take-home food containers scattered in the kitchen - on counters and her table. She hasn’t cleaned out the larger fridge and now the apartment sized fridge/freezer is full, so her leftovers sit out. She admitted the other day that the house doesn’t smell that bad, so I’m assuming she hasn’t cleaned either fridge out. She says she’ll have to get to that task, but never does. Refuses my offer and the neighbors offer to help clean them out. Over, and over and over again she refuses. Insanity.

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First the driving, I see you already tried taking her keys and she found a work around, maybe disconnect the battery and put electrical tape around one of the cable heads with a note that says “diss connected on purpose, she should t drive” or something so if she calls AAA or has someone over to help figure out what’s wrong they at least know what’s going on.

The fact that she fears they will “throw her in the hospital” indicates to me that she knows something isn’t rite so I would start by finding ways to assure her that whatever the problem they don’t just lock people up and you will be with her with the power to protect her. As a matter of fact because you have that authority they are far less likely to just “lock her up” especially if she is cooperative and you work as a team. The first step is going to a specialist for a good assessment, just like having a heart condition or cancer can be helped with the rite treatment so might whatever is going on be. You can’t just assume the worst and you can’t. While there are obviously some cognitive issues going on here she doesn’t sound out of it all the time and there are many different ways to control those issues and keep her safe which don’t all include putting her in a locked facility or counting on neighbors to escort her home or call the police. If you don't live close enough to stop by daily it’s probably time for a trip to asses and talk with her in person.

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I like the idea of a note placed near the battery. We will just remove the entire thing.

She doesn’t trust anyone, is paranoid and hasn’t ever worked together on a team - even with her family. Not working outside the home - ever - didn’t give her opportunity to learn that skill.

Crises team visited her Thursday and could not go in, they said, because mom was adamant about keeping them out. I cannot get mom to see a specialist, or any doc, to confirm progression of her mild cognitive decline diagnosis 3 years ago. She wants no part of treatments or pills or activities or food/water intake that would help her.

You say she doesn’t sound out of it all the time. Until the 2am incident, I had not seen her ‘out of it’ or heard from anyone who said she was. Since then, I now know she’s wandering at 2am, making up ‘stories’ and living them out, she told crises staff she was waiting for her husband. There has probably been more of these types of things happening than I know about.

But, no matter. Crises team saw mom was getting ready to go out and looked like she was handling herself okay.

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I had a neighbor who walked outside naked in October and headed down the street. Another neighbor saw her and called her daughter, who then found a place for her in memory care. She could have died. In Florida, there was always someone who wandered off and fell into a canal. They might not be found for months, if then, due to alligators' propensity for eating fresh meat. My in-law got in his car and drove around for at least 36 hours, getting on the Florida turnpike and ending up 90 miles from home where he ran into a curb with no serious damage. He was trying to find where he worked (retired for years). The police picked him up and called his brother, who drove 150 miles to get him in the middle of the night. He went to memory care soon after. My friend's dad got in his car and drove around for nobody knows how long. He ended up at a condo where he went in an empty guard house and peed because he thought it was a rest room. He went to the VA hospital after that. One time I was with family and found a sweet old lady walking down the middle of US #1 in her nightie around midnight. We took her to the sidewalk and fortunately someone was looking for her and took her home. I knew someone whose parents decided to drive 1000 miles to see relatives, took a shortcut and got lost. When they were found they were very dehydrated and confused and were soon moved out of their home to a care facility. My dad decided to go to work at 2 a.m. when he was 92 and dying, but the caregiver stopped him as he was heading out the door to the garage. These things happen all the time. They're lucky if they're found alive.

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@Fawnby

Exactly right. These things do happen all the time. When a person has dementia they need to be living a supervised life. The same as a child cannot be left living on their own to fend for themselves.

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@Cover999

An elderly person living alone especially one with dementia, is not the same thing as the single mothers you're eager to protect.
It is not for a married man to go checking up on a single mom in the neighborhood without his wife. In fact, this responsibility for the fathers of the poor single mother's children to do their duty which is to make sure the kids are being cared for and living in a safe, decent home. If she's a widow and her late husband has family, they should be helping out and checking on her the way myself and my siblings did for my SIL.
Of course people should be friendly with their neighbors. Not too friendly though.
@Geaton777. You're right, it's not the neighbors' responsibility to keep watch for elders with dementia living alone in the neighborhood. Nothing wrong with looking out the window before you go to bed. Or stopping by during the week. Maybe bring by plate of something. I've done this since I've been back living here. I don't work for her. I don't go in her house. I just stop by on the porch. Maybe bring her a bite. She doesn't take advantage. She doesn't call here or come over. When she doesn't answer the door, that's when I'll call the police. Nothing wrong with checking on an elderly person. Or kids. Back at my old house years ago a neighbor's daughter used to watch her two little brothers because their useless POS mother was usually out partying and the fathers couldn't care less. She knew she could come next door if she needed to. My MIL used to feed them and the girl would do laundry at our place. She reminded me of myself at her age. Those kids grew up and have kids of their own. One of the boys became a police officer. Their mother is still the same. Never grew up. Never got straight. Still a total loser.

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Kat, I am so sorry. I know how challenging this is for you and now she is behaving irrationally.

Hopefully, it is a UTI and her baseline comes back.

Prayers that APS will speak with the neighbors and mom is having a really bad day. She truly needs some intervention.

Hugs to you!

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Thanks for the hugs!!

Not much happened. Crises number APS gave me a while back came out, but mom didn’t let the two women in. She seemed confused at the door bell and seemed to think it was some sort of alarm going off. She also said she was waiting for her husband to get home (he has been gone 8 years). Moms answer to the 2am question was that she doesnt remember. They gave her resource sheets and said she didn’t seem interested.

They won’t make a recommendation to 302 her, but will help write it and said it’s better to have more written in the 302, in the effort for it to be okayed by two doctors, before submitting to a judge. If it’s not approved by the docs, the information in that 302 cannot be used again in a future 302. Also, she said APS had not contacted the crises center about mom, and many times they do work together on referrals.

So, no intervention yesterday. I did let the neighbors know to call 911 if they see something wrong, then call or text me.

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Keep in mind, if you have POA and access to her finances, you can pay for a room in memory care, set up some of her things in the room, trick her to walk into the building (tell her it's a restaurant), and the staff will know what to do from there (of course they'll know beforehand). A lawyer will say you can't "put her away" against her will without a full diagnosis and/or guardianship. But in real life, many people with dementia end up in care in a legal gray area. Legally, if they are not under guardianship, the person can walk out of the building and take a cab or bus anywhere they please. But if the person is too affected by dementia, they will not be able to take a sequence of actions to get out of the building. Your mother sounds like she's entering a more advanced stage of dementia. She probably would not be able to carry out a sequence of steps that would take her out of a locked memory care facility. She probably couldn't call a cab or a lawyer. Who to call next? Call a memory care facility next. They are very familiar with these situations. They can probably decide to "wait" for documentation of an official diagnosis, even after your mother moves in. They can also have their own social worker do a cognitive test once your mother has moved in.

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I have POA, but three docs have to say she is incompetent, as POA states that must occur to put into effect. Mom won’t go to a doc as she says they will throw her in a hospital. She’s very paranoid and will not let me in the house, including the crises staff who showed up at her house yesterday. She has removed herself from our lives, essentially. We’ve not spent holidays or birthdays together in a couple years (not because of COVID). There’s no way I can coax her into another living situation, other than her home.

Appreciate your thoughts.

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Sorry your mom is in such bad shape. So thankful that her car didn't start. She needs to be placed somewhere ASAP for her own safety. It's too bad she didn't have a little trip to the ER on this night. She needs to be tested for a UTI, among other things. If she doesn't have a UTI, then she needs to be somewhere safe for her. Like memory care.

Best of luck.

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I did tell her it may be something simple like an untreated UTI and all she’d have to do is produce a sample. She shook her head no. Yes, it would have been wonderful for her to have ended up in the ER.

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Take the car keys away immediately or disable the car if you have to. Take the tires off it.
Your mother refusing to go to a doctor because she thinks they will throw her in a hospital sounds like a symptom of dementia to me. Your mother can't be making the decisions anymore. She is not safe living alone anymore. If you have her POA, please go and talk to her doctor and tell them what happened.
More often than not APS can be pretty useless. They will go charging in with swords drawn for some senior who lives a good life and has good care. Yet for a senior with very obvious dementia that goes through the neighbor's garbage in the middle of the night because she thinks her kids are in it, they drag their feet.
Please talk to the police where your mother lives. At least the cops will make wellness checks on her. Tell the neighbors that they should call the police when they see her wandering. Go out and help her of course, but call the cops because you want to have a record of it. She needs to have a live-in companion or needs to be placed.

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Removing battery tomorrow and will speak with her primary.

the police have been notified about mom a couple years ago after license was suspended, and again the other day about her roaming at 2am. Neighbors now know to call 911 and then call me, if they see something wrong.

I agree she needs assistance. But crises staff wasn’t allowed in Mom’s home and I don’t see how a companion will be allowed in there. Unfortunately, I think Something has to happen to her so that she can be assessed and then placed.

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Please disable the car without her knowledge, and deny to all that you had anything to do with it. Instruct the neighbors to call 911 at any time they see anything as unsafe as they just saw. And try to find a way yourself to get mom to a hospital, even if it takes a therapeutic lie to get her there. She’s clearly not safe to be living on her own and needs better care. I’m sorry you’re in this position and that the relationship is tense. A hospital social worker can help as can Adult Protective Services. I hope they will listen, care, and act

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Your last sentence, Lol

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Mom needs to be placed somewhere so she doesn’t hurt herself or others. In Florida, there’s the Baker Act which permits people with suspected mental illness to be picked up and evaluated. There are similar laws in other states. Please call 911 to find out if she can be detained and taken where she’ll get help. If she’s “thrown in a hospital” that’s a good thing.

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APS gave me a crises line for involuntary placement if mom is in risk or causing it to others.

I called her township police dept. and have visited them a couple times over the years. They can act as transport, if mom won’t go willingly or if threatening self/others.

Agree with last sentence. She’s not safe at home now.

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I'd venture to guess mom would score a lot lower than a 22 on the MoCA exam now than she did in March if she's outside picking thru the trash at 2 am looking for the kids. It's very frightening that she's driving a car and the thought of her killing herself or others due to dementia is horrible. Definitely let the neighbors know to call 911 next time they see mom exhibiting such behavior, so she can go to the ER for a psych evaluation.

If this were me, I'd disable her car to prevent her from driving to the diner or anywhere else for that matter.

I don't know who you can call to have mom evaluated properly; you may have to wait for a crisis to happen before she is. Once she's hospitalized and they refuse to release her back to living alone, THEN she'll be placed in Memory Care or Skilled Nursing.

I'm sorry you're going through such a thing. In fact, I'm sorry such situations exist where our hands are tied with stubborn elders who refuse to accept help for their issues. It's sad and scary. I wish you the best trying to help your mom.

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We had taken her keys, but she bought a replacement from the car dealer, at a hefty price I imagine. I let the neighbors know to call 911 and then call me. Calling the crises # early tomorrow.

It is sad, but she’s not safe by herself now.

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It's a shame the neighbor didn't do the better thing and call 911. Can you contact this neighbor (or others) to instruct them to do so if this happens again in the near future?

I get the sense you don't live local to her. I think I would make a trip to visit her, PoA paperwork in hand. Whether or not she allows you into her home, and if she seems cognitively off, you should call 911 to be taken to the ER. She may get worked up. If so, call over the neighbor who helped her back into her home to verify to the EMTs of the recent wandering. Assure her she's going to get checked for a UTI, which is treatable. If she gets agitated, the EMTs can take her (show them the PoA paperwork). Once at the hospital you will have more options for how to move forward once you know what is going on with her (as it may be only a UTI). Hospital staff needs to know in no uncertain terms that she is an "unsafe discharge". Do not go get her, make sure she doesn't have her address book or phone so she can't call people to retrieve her. Ask to speak with the hospitals social worker. I wish you success in finding the best solution.

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She's fortunate to have a neighbor(s) that looked out and got involved; there are many that don't have that. I know in the community I am in, if you're a single parent, especially a woman, married women don't want their husbands checking up on the lady, lest they're afraid he may stray.

A true story a man was out of his home and was going around the street his was on during winter. Guess the outcome? He was found frozen to death on the porch of a home nearby. The neighbors expressed sympathy all the good that did since he was dead.

Mom‘s neighbor got in touch today saying mom was found outside at 2 am going through the neighbor’s trash saying kids are in there. Any advice?

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