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From 11/4/2023 Washington Post article: "The retired pilot went to the hospital. Then his life went into a tailspin."
Beware of Guardianships!!!
"When a judge agreed, Hulse lost basic freedoms: He couldn’t spend his own money or decide where to live. The lifelong Republican who had just cast his ballot in the 2020 presidential primary even lost his right to vote. He was quickly moved to a nursing home. His new guardian, a woman he had never met, began selling his house and his belongings.
Hulse had joined 1 million Americans in a guardianship, a court-sanctioned arrangement created to protect vulnerable people — some young, but many elderly. The system has been widely criticized for inviting abuse and theft. Local judges give extraordinary power to a guardian, including access to the bank account of the person in their care, despite a lack of effective ways to monitor them. When excessive billing, missing money and other abuses are discovered, guardians are rarely punished. Prosecutors are keenly aware they were appointed by a judge."
Thanks everyone. I don't think either trying to take POA from her or trying to get guardianship are the right things to do either. I've had friends go through that and lose the case, then they lost their relationship with their parents too. I suppose the best answer is to try to help when asked and let them make the decisions on their own for the rest of their lives. Nobody likes to see their parents' lives dwindle away especially when your opinions for what's good for them are different from theirs. But, as you said, he married her and gave her POA so at some point he trusted her to do the right thing. Again, thank you all for your help and support.
BarbBrooklyn, They have done those competency test on him as late as last week (he's in rehab again, this time for a broken pelvis due to another fall.) I was there for it. He got about 75% of the questions right even with the nurse hinting the answers to him. So, he's not really that bad mentally, forgetful but able to think. And she is not mean to him, just neglectful and busy with her own life so he doesn't get the care he needs. I just feel helpless and hate to see him like this. It's almost like he lives alone.
Pelvic fracture is very very serious given that it is horrifically painful and keeps the elderly bedbound where they are more prone to pneumonia, to bedsores, to sepsis and bladder infections and to death. Pelvic injuries can spell the beginning of the end in the elderly for certain. I hope Dad will be in care at this point and don't quite see how Mom can handle this to be honest. This is no longer a one person assist.
Being appointed as a POA does not mean someone can make all decisions. You must read the POA, as they will be limited to certain matters. And, in fact, as long as your father wants to make decisions for himself, that is his right. It cannot be overridden by a POA.
As someone else mentioned, you could attempt to get a guardian assigned, but that is an arduous process, and you may not be successful. Plus a guardianship often have their own problems. I would only attempt a guardianship as a very, very last resort.
Does your dad have a walker? If not, get him one. Maybe a cane with a "foot" for balance.
In the end, you may have to relinquish the idea that you can intervene to suit your wishes. Think about this: You child marries someone you think spends too much money, or drinks too much. To what extent would you insert yourself? You father married this woman, and unless she is demented - you may just have to offer your assistance and insights, but find a way to be okay if they "do their own thing." It is their lives.
Your Father is 92. Does he tell you he is hungry and not being fed? Is he emaciated? If so, if both these things are true you may ask APS to intervene to check on adequacy of care and diet.
However, at 92 I would allow the wife of this gentleman to care for him in his last days. Falls are inevitable. Placement in this fragile state exposes him to sepsis from any number of viruses and bacteria.
I would pull back, offer HELP only and not put judgements of the care unless your father is giving evidence he is hungry and not being fed. Many elders have very little to no appetite at the last weeks of their lives.
None of us here can know the details of what is happening in your own family. You will have to do the best you can, but for me the best place is providing help and support to both these folks. You are not the POA, and you would no wrest the POA away from wife without SERIOUS evidence of abuse. Best now to try to get along in my opinion.
You're right about his lack of appetite. He often says he's not hungry but if you put food in front of him, he eats at least some of it. He has lost down to 146 pounds, about 20 pounds below normal. But, I know a lot of this is inevitable. He has a cane and actually uses it. Since he's been in rehab he has had pneumonia and UTI. I'm afraid you are correct that this may be the beginning of the end. If he makes it out of rehab his wife will have to decide where he goes after that.
I agree with these ideas too. The problem is he's not completely incompetent, he will not buck her on the decision. I've taken them to several nice IL and AL places, they agree to move there, then that afternoon Dad calls and tells me she has changed her mind. And he won't move without her. Granted, she is 12 yrs. his junior but she doesn't make much effort toward keeping him safe from falls or properly fed. She doesn't cook and won't pay someone to cook for them. Money is not the issue. This has been going on for at least 3 yrs. They live several hours away from me so it's not as if I can see them everyday. I've tried to stay in communication with her and she asks my opinion on things but that does not mean she takes my advice. I try to help as much as I can from here and get there as often as possible but it's just not enough. It's hard when I get those calls that Dad has fallen again and is in the hospital then rehab, when I can't help but think that if he were in a secure facility he would live longer.
I agree with both advice from BarbBrooklyn and Funkygrandma59: if your Dad is cognitively competent then he gets to decide. So, maybe he needs a cognitive test by his doctor to prove this.
If a test indicates he is not very competent, then keep reporting the to APS. Or, take him to a certified elder law attorney, who is trained to interview him to asses for capacity.
If you have solid proof that your dad is being neglected then you may have to file for guardianship with the state, as that will override his wife's POA. It's quite expensive to do that but it may be worth it to make sure your dad receives the care he deserves. You can also call APS and report the neglect that is going on so they can go and investigate.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Beware of Guardianships!!!
"When a judge agreed, Hulse lost basic freedoms: He couldn’t spend his own money or decide where to live. The lifelong Republican who had just cast his ballot in the 2020 presidential primary even lost his right to vote. He was quickly moved to a nursing home. His new guardian, a woman he had never met, began selling his house and his belongings.
Hulse had joined 1 million Americans in a guardianship, a court-sanctioned arrangement created to protect vulnerable people — some young, but many elderly. The system has been widely criticized for inviting abuse and theft. Local judges give extraordinary power to a guardian, including access to the bank account of the person in their care, despite a lack of effective ways to monitor them. When excessive billing, missing money and other abuses are discovered, guardians are rarely punished. Prosecutors are keenly aware they were appointed by a judge."
I suppose the best answer is to try to help when asked and let them make the decisions on their own for the rest of their lives.
Nobody likes to see their parents' lives dwindle away especially when your opinions for what's good for them are different from theirs. But, as you said, he married her and gave her POA so at some point he trusted her to do the right thing.
Again, thank you all for your help and support.
They have done those competency test on him as late as last week (he's in rehab again, this time for a broken pelvis due to another fall.) I was there for it. He got about 75% of the questions right even with the nurse hinting the answers to him. So, he's not really that bad mentally, forgetful but able to think. And she is not mean to him, just neglectful and busy with her own life so he doesn't get the care he needs. I just feel helpless and hate to see him like this. It's almost like he lives alone.
Being appointed as a POA does not mean someone can make all decisions. You must read the POA, as they will be limited to certain matters. And, in fact, as long as your father wants to make decisions for himself, that is his right. It cannot be overridden by a POA.
As someone else mentioned, you could attempt to get a guardian assigned, but that is an arduous process, and you may not be successful. Plus a guardianship often have their own problems. I would only attempt a guardianship as a very, very last resort.
Does your dad have a walker? If not, get him one. Maybe a cane with a "foot" for balance.
In the end, you may have to relinquish the idea that you can intervene to suit your wishes. Think about this: You child marries someone you think spends too much money, or drinks too much. To what extent would you insert yourself? You father married this woman, and unless she is demented - you may just have to offer your assistance and insights, but find a way to be okay if they "do their own thing." It is their lives.
However, at 92 I would allow the wife of this gentleman to care for him in his last days. Falls are inevitable. Placement in this fragile state exposes him to sepsis from any number of viruses and bacteria.
I would pull back, offer HELP only and not put judgements of the care unless your father is giving evidence he is hungry and not being fed. Many elders have very little to no appetite at the last weeks of their lives.
None of us here can know the details of what is happening in your own family. You will have to do the best you can, but for me the best place is providing help and support to both these folks. You are not the POA, and you would no wrest the POA away from wife without SERIOUS evidence of abuse. Best now to try to get along in my opinion.
Since he's been in rehab he has had pneumonia and UTI. I'm afraid you are correct that this may be the beginning of the end. If he makes it out of rehab his wife will have to decide where he goes after that.
If a test indicates he is not very competent, then keep reporting the to APS. Or, take him to a certified elder law attorney, who is trained to interview him to asses for capacity.
You can also call APS and report the neglect that is going on so they can go and investigate.
If not, he should be able to live where he wants and use HIS money as he sees fit.
Can he pay for AL on his own?