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When my mother started going downhill, my sister took her into her home in Texas. My mother never put together a POA or a will. She is now receiving in home hospice care. I video called her and she is not even able to feed herself or walk. However, my sister said she is getting a POA taken care of right now and is going to the bank tomorrow. She claims the case worker is helping her and that Mom had no problem signing another document. I'm not sure what she is up to and I feel terrible thinking she's up to no good. I thought once a parent had full blown dementia that a guardianship is the only way to obtain a POA. She asked me for my address and phone for the POA, and I'm not sure why....

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Your sister mostly likely asked for your information to make you the back-up POA in the event she can't do the job, or possible to make you a co-POA (not the best idea, though).

Your mom needs to be competent in order to assign a power of attorney. It isn't required to be done in an attorney's office or by an attorney, but it does have to be witnessed and notarized. The notary's job is not to determine whether your mother is competent but rather that she is indeed who she says she is. Her ability to sign her name is also not a sign of competency.

As someone else said, a bank isn't likely going to accept that POA. They want their own paperwork filled out, and I don't think it'd be a bad idea to notify them if your mom has indeed been diagnosed with dementia. However, if you don't think your sister is up to no good, it'd make like a lot easier to have POA than not to have it. She got to the point of hospice care without one, which is interesting.

I think you should have a frank talk with your sister and insist on being included in the loop on all this.
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MaryFromFlorida Mar 2021
Thank you for your response. Does one typically need a POA in order to receive hospice? It's difficult for me to draw out information from my sister. I took care of Mom for 15 years, but once she went downhill my sister came to Florida and took her to Texas.
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It is only necessary that your Mom understands POA and what she is signing. Not that she is perfectly well. It is unusual for a Social Worker to act in this manner. Generally they call a judge for temporary conservatorship or guardianship. A POA is something conferred by a competent elder in a Lawyer's office or with a Lawyer present. A social worker shouldn't even be witnessing this document. And if Mom isn't capable of understanding what she is signing a POA is out of the question. The sister also needs to understand POA duties and the fiduciary responsibliity to keep meticulous records of all assets in and out that would stand in court. This sounds like not enough info, or like it is questionable action. Of course we don't have all the facts with which to judge this situation. Your sister was speaking to you on the phone, so why was she asking for your phone number? Clearly she must have it if she communicates with you. I admit to being a bit confused on what all is going on here. And you are correct. Full blown dementia requires guardianship or conservatorship which the Social Worker CAN help with (a temporary one until full is applied for in court). Now you mention a bank, and that is why I assume that your Sis is asking for POA that is for financial. As to why that would be I question it. Hospice is fully paid for by medicare and medical. If this is POA for advanced health care directive decisions then the Social Worker CAN help with that. I am wondering if you are being asked for info to act as a "second" should you sis be unable to serve. This comes down to a lack of info. So ask your Sis to fully inform you what is going on.
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MaryFromFlorida Mar 2021
Thank you for your response. My sister had asked for my home phone number. As for all the confusion, that has always been my relationship with her. She likes to take over and gets angry when questioned.
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I would contact the caseworker and ask how Sister can get a POA when Mom is not competent to sign papers. I may also call the Bank and tell them that Mom is on hospice with Dementia and any POA that sister presents may not be valid. Some banks won't except POAs.

Guardianship and POAs are two different things.
POA is assigned by a principle giving the person assigned certain responsibilities usually when the principle can no longer make informed decisions. The POA may say that one or two doctors have to sign off that the person is incompetent. (There are immediate POAs but I don't think they are widely used)

Guardianship comes about when there is no POA and the person is already incompetent so can't assign a POA. Guardianship is expensive and overrides a POA, judge needs to sign off, and you report to the State. So you don't obtain POA thru Guardianship, Guardianship takes the place of a POA. POAs can be revoked by the principle if competent or the one assigned can step down. Not so with guardianship, a judge has to authorize any changes.
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MaryFromFlorida Mar 2021
Thanks for your response. I'm not sure how to contact the case worker. I'm certain my sister won't give me that information. However, I do receive the hospital bills and can probably call. I do have authorization to deal with her insurance, but is that enough for the hospital to give me the case workers contact info?
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You first say that your mother "never put together a PoA or will" then you later referred to her "signing another document"...not sure what you mean?

I agree with everything that funkygrandma59 stated, the only difference being the part about the lawyer keeping the document... where I live each PoA gets their own originally signed and notarized copy since places like the bank and facilities will ask the PoA to present it in person, and not a photocopy. But this can differ from state to state.

Does your mother have a documented diagnosis of dementia in her medical records? It's not just an opinion... Just because your mom is weak doesn't mean she is mentally incompetent. It may be that with no PoA in place and in order to make her care management easier the social worker is helping her get it in place now (better late than never, better than having to pursue guardianship). It may not be nefarious. You can certainly query your sister on this.
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MaryFromFlorida Mar 2021
Thank you for your response. My sister had texted me that Mom had already signed off on a document, but I don't know what she was referring to. It's difficult talking to her because she is extremely paranoid. My relationship with my sister has always been contentious. I took care of Mom for 15 years. I took her to neurologists and the last one told me she has advanced dementia and needed to be in assisted living. That is when my sister came out and took her. She did not want me spending money for assisted living. She never took her to a doctor and said doctors weren't seeing patients due to covid-19. It has been a little over a year since she took her in.
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Once a person is deemed incompetent, they can no longer legally sign any kind of legal documents, including POA's, and yes then guardianship is the only way to be able to get control over your mom's care. And when POA paperwork is filled out, 2 witnesses must be in the presence of a lawyer, as they will have to sign in front of the lawyer, and the lawyer has to ask your mom if the person listed as POA, is in fact who she wants to represent her. The lawyer or his office will then notarize it, and keep it on file. It sounds to me like your sister is up to something fishy, and perhaps something not legal. I would get more details from her, like ask what lawyer she's using, and how can a POA be even gotten when mom has dementia. I'd be curious to her responses.
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funkygrandma59 Mar 2021
Just to clarify, after a lawyer completes the POA's, the intended POA will get copies of both(durable and medical) to keep, and the lawyer will keep copies at their office as well.
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