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Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials, may your marriage be happy and blessed!🥂🎉🎊
It is good that you are communicating with Medicaid to ensure you are not drawn into whatever is up with dad and siblings. Education is expensive, in a classroom or out. Chalk it up to an education.
Give yourself a wedding present and walk away. You are being blessed with a loving relationship and a new home for you and your pets, perfect time and opportunity to wash your hands of the nonsense that has been happening and start fresh.
And a newly renovated home, woohoo, sounds exciting.
Fraud implies wrongful or criminal deception. Most states I'm aware of allow a Medicaid recipient to qualify while still owning a house, and there are apparently legal ways to transfer it to heirs while avoiding probate (Ladybird deed). So no, I don't think it is fraud in a legal sense.
It's said to be cheaper for Medicaid to provide some services that allow qualified recipients to remain in their own homes rather than in a facility, and that is what most people say they want, so it makes sense that the asset limit qualification rules usually exclude a home and car.
What's never been clear to me is how you would be able to maintain a house given the income and asset limits. When it happens, it seems like there must be family members paying taxes and maintaining the house, even paying the mortgage if there is still one. So in that case I'm not all that upset if the family is able to keep the house.
I went back and read your posts. I really don't see where you would be impacted by decisions of the people filling out paperwork for Mom. Neither should this impact Dad. I started a post replying to worrieds on one of your other post. Thought better to post here.
________
Worried is correct, its not fraud, they are just taking advantage of Dad. If her children wanted to keep the house in the family then they needed to keep the Mortgage going, utilities and upkeep. Otherwise, sell it, pay off the Mortgage and the balance goes to Moms care.
Yes, usually at time of death, Medicaid will put a lean on the house which is recouped at time of sale. There are so many scenerios with this though. If there is a community spouse. A family member who this is a main residence or they were a caregiver. In these instances, a lean maybe put on, but not recouped until those people die or sell the house.
I think for you, walking away is a good thing. Let the chips fall when it comes to siblings. For now Dad should say no more paying for anything to do with the house. He may want to see a lawyer for at least the paying off of the mortgage. Making sure he gets his money back if the house sells or putting a lean on it. He may just want to count this as your siblings inheritance. Needs to say that in a will including the upkeep he has paid. He gets nothing out of this, they reap all the rewards.
Good luck on your new life and keep us up to date on whats going on.
Thank you so much for your very informative reply. I agree w what u said about the children ( my siblings & i) paying the mortgage, utilities, etc & not Dad. Even tho I am on Disability, I was willing to pay my fair share of that. My siblings were not. My Dad is just throwing his money away. I want Dad to enjoy his life & his money. I want Mom to have the best care. I'm not concerned about any inheritance. Only want what's best for Mom & Dad.
Joann, sadly if the siblings are found to have indulged in fraud concerning the house....then it is mostly Mom that will pay the consequences and have to deal with it.
because, Medicaid will disqualify Mom until the value of what was taken has been used for her care. If the proceeds from the house sale is just gone, Mom will be the one to suffer.
A couple years ago my Aunt had to go onto Medicaid...the money she gave to her son was then causing her to be disqualified...even though no fraud was behind it. Son couldn’t pay it back because he had died in a crash a couple years before. Medicaid doesn’t care why the money is gone, or any circumstance behind it. Mom didn’t dare lend the money to this aunt because it might have caused the problem to just move from Aunt to Mom if she needed Medicaid within 5 years.
I see no fraud with the house at this point unless its not mentioned in the application. You are allowed a house and if someone wants to pay for the Mortgage and upkeep. Medicaid doesn't care. More likely they will get their money in the end. The problem comes in if the family tries to rent it and doesn't use the money towards Moms care or moves in without Medicaid knowing it. They would need to pay rent if Medicaid allows it.
I think she just needs to walk away and let the chips fall. As long as she excepts no part of the fraud and signs no paperwork on the application she should be OK. I think she said she is talking to a lawyer.
A Medicaid reciprient is allowed a house. Its not considered an asset. Seems weird I know. The house can be sold but at market value. Those proceeds would have to go to the recipients care. Medicaid would stop until the proceeds are spent down. Then file for Medicaid again. The fraud would come in if the house is sold and the money not used on recipients care.
If the house does not sell, then none of recipients money can go towards upkeep of house.
If you are leaving the house, then just walk away and let the others deal with Medicaid. If fraud is found, they will have to deal with it.
lsugrad, apparently the answers that have been given on your other postings have not answered your questions or concerns yet.
Have you talked with a Medicaid office in Louisiana about your Mom's situation? If your siblings are hiding money so that your Mom can receive Medicaid, then you need to inform the Medicaid office.
I think that you mentioned in another postings that you are going to be moving out of the house soon. Did you make that decision yourself or did your siblings ask you to move out?
I got engaged in Nov. Wedding this fall. Fiance & i are currently remodeling his place b4 me & my pets move in. I will b moving out @ the end of June. House will then become unoccupied. Dad is telling me i don't want to marry this guy. Brother w POA tells me I don't have to move out. It's to their advantage that I stay here. I'm disabled. Mom & i have lived under same roof for 12 yrs. I feel like I might b used as their hardship excuse to keep Medicaid from recouping their expenses via sale of the home when Mom passes. I am in contact w Medicaid. Trying to make sure that didn't happen.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
It is good that you are communicating with Medicaid to ensure you are not drawn into whatever is up with dad and siblings. Education is expensive, in a classroom or out. Chalk it up to an education.
Give yourself a wedding present and walk away. You are being blessed with a loving relationship and a new home for you and your pets, perfect time and opportunity to wash your hands of the nonsense that has been happening and start fresh.
And a newly renovated home, woohoo, sounds exciting.
It's said to be cheaper for Medicaid to provide some services that allow qualified recipients to remain in their own homes rather than in a facility, and that is what most people say they want, so it makes sense that the asset limit qualification rules usually exclude a home and car.
What's never been clear to me is how you would be able to maintain a house given the income and asset limits. When it happens, it seems like there must be family members paying taxes and maintaining the house, even paying the mortgage if there is still one. So in that case I'm not all that upset if the family is able to keep the house.
What's the situation you're concerned about?
________
Worried is correct, its not fraud, they are just taking advantage of Dad. If her children wanted to keep the house in the family then they needed to keep the Mortgage going, utilities and upkeep. Otherwise, sell it, pay off the Mortgage and the balance goes to Moms care.
Yes, usually at time of death, Medicaid will put a lean on the house which is recouped at time of sale. There are so many scenerios with this though. If there is a community spouse. A family member who this is a main residence or they were a caregiver. In these instances, a lean maybe put on, but not recouped until those people die or sell the house.
I think for you, walking away is a good thing. Let the chips fall when it comes to siblings. For now Dad should say no more paying for anything to do with the house. He may want to see a lawyer for at least the paying off of the mortgage. Making sure he gets his money back if the house sells or putting a lean on it. He may just want to count this as your siblings inheritance. Needs to say that in a will including the upkeep he has paid. He gets nothing out of this, they reap all the rewards.
Good luck on your new life and keep us up to date on whats going on.
because, Medicaid will disqualify Mom until the value of what was taken has been used for her care. If the proceeds from the house sale is just gone, Mom will be the one to suffer.
A couple years ago my Aunt had to go onto Medicaid...the money she gave to her son was then causing her to be disqualified...even though no fraud was behind it. Son couldn’t pay it back because he had died in a crash a couple years before. Medicaid doesn’t care why the money is gone, or any circumstance behind it. Mom didn’t dare lend the money to this aunt because it might have caused the problem to just move from Aunt to Mom if she needed Medicaid within 5 years.
I think she just needs to walk away and let the chips fall. As long as she excepts no part of the fraud and signs no paperwork on the application she should be OK. I think she said she is talking to a lawyer.
If the house does not sell, then none of recipients money can go towards upkeep of house.
If you are leaving the house, then just walk away and let the others deal with Medicaid. If fraud is found, they will have to deal with it.
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/when-or-does-medicaid-put-a-lien-on-the-medicaid-recipients-home-in-order-to-be-reimbursed-for-the-c-449112.htm?orderby=recent
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/my-siblings-are-hiding-moms-assest-her-home-for-free-medicaid-benefits-they-want-their-hands-on-the--448886.htm?orderby=recent
lsugrad, apparently the answers that have been given on your other postings have not answered your questions or concerns yet.
Have you talked with a Medicaid office in Louisiana about your Mom's situation? If your siblings are hiding money so that your Mom can receive Medicaid, then you need to inform the Medicaid office.
I think that you mentioned in another postings that you are going to be moving out of the house soon. Did you make that decision yourself or did your siblings ask you to move out?