Can state of Missouri take family farm?

I tried telling my brother that dad's estate should be handled thru probate, but he would not file. Her lawyer thinks that he can remove my father's name from the old farm Warranty Deed with a Beneficial Deed, but the Warranty Deed did not state Joint Tenants with right of Survivorship.
I am wondering if there is a deadline for filing Probate after a death? Some states do have a deadline. Iowa's is 5 years

Some probate judge is going to have a LOT of fun dis-entangling this case.

so are you thinking that because it hasn't been probated the state could take it? is this not even a Medicaid question? also, if half brother's wanting whole brother to buy it is there a reason he's asking so much or is it that he's wanting the money, not just wanting whole brother to have it? and is there a concern that Medicaid would come after the money if not the land or not the land if brother buys it? because believe if she's already applied to Medicaid the lookback period has already started then and they would, if they can no longer get access to the land, because it's been sold, but since to a son, not sure they can't, they can, I believe, make efforts to get the sales proceeds money from the land sale, so might still be needed to be used to pay for her nursing home care - hm, but then this is your step-mom; that might need to be checked into as well; does she have her own family? but then that probably doesn't matter, since she had, like someone said, a financial interest in the property, from your dad, so does this beneficiary deed even cover her part or just the other children's and yours if you ever do it - and are you sure it's just a 1/4 interest and not a 1/2; at least that's how much it is here, how it was or would have been on the property - 2 acres - that we supposedly inherited from fil - with the deed not being done until after the uncle he purchased it from passed away and not going through those children, unlike at least what's endeavoring to be done with/for you - what if step-mom had just gone ahead and signed a deed selling it already?

Jessie's right. With all the complexities, you really need an attorney with good background in complex title issues.

As to a filing deadline with the local probate court, just call it and ask about a deadline to file for an estate.

Texashair,
Sounds like you need to find someone local to answer your questions. Seek out the local extension agent, county clerk, who could direct you to a pro bono (free) legal workshop. Here is a link to an ag probate flyer I found online:

http://agebb.missouri.edu/agtax/issues/estgift/probate.pdf

It does sound like Missouri requires probate to settle estates. Keep us posted.

Medicaid, not medicare.

We would like for my whole brother to own this place, but my half brother's sale price is HIGH. I will sign the QCD when my whole brother has the money in his hand for the purchase, but not until that time.
My question is today, is if Missouri has a probate filing deadline. Some states do have deadlines and they are from 5 -10 years.

No matter what you do, if your stepmom has a financial interest in the farm, Medicaid will lay claim to that portion if they are going to pay for her care.

Keep us posted on how you end up handling this one. Wow, what a tangle. I am glad you will eventually get to have the 40 that was your mothers. What are Missouri's rules on probate. Can't you still go through the probate process if it will help straighten this out?

My whole brother and half brother's signed QCD have been filed in assessor's office. My step mother's lawyer filed a Beneficiary Deed, but there is not a new Warranty Deed. The Beneficiary Deed removed my father's name off of all the land except my 2.9 acres and that is still listed as my father and step mother. My whole brother signed his QCD and it is filed, but he would like to purchase the whole farm now. I am fine with him purchasing this farm, because our parents purchased it when we were small. My mother still owns the 40 acres adjoining this farm and I will inherit it. I believe that my father's estate should still go into probate, but he passed away 7 years ago this next month.

Could it get any messier??? (smiling as I write this - too bad we don't have emoticons here). Seriously, this is the kind of problems and entanglements I would enjoy when I was working in real estate. Now I think - poor guy - he should have hired an attorney or gotten a title commitment before buying. I

oh, Garden, I understood that; I've heard all kinds of those horror stories as well, including with this house, which the people that bought the house learned as well, but the neighbor I was actually referring to wasn't buying the house, just the property attached to it, which not really sure either was technically foreclosed on, now that I think more about it, think he just turned them back over to the banks - yes, they'd bought them separately from two different banks and never had them consolidated - when he didn't want them anymore, but it was more the report for title issue that I was talking about, not altogether because this not quite the same, but in his case when the two properties were turned back in he granted access to the back from the front - where the house was - and recorded it at the courthouse and that bank sent it to the first bank, that had the house, which he was supposed to have done, and there wasn't a problem till they couldn't sell that property because of it, then it mysteriously disappeared from where it was supposed to be down at the courthouse and the first bank then tried to sell it as not having that access and that buyer thought they were buying the whole property till they moved there to find all this stuff at the back of the property, thinking somebody had just moved stuff onto their property because they never bothered to find out what they'd actually bought, unlike him, who'd paid to have his surveyed, so they were not happy campers to find all that out after they'd moved there and then even more so after he went down to the courthouse and spent all day going through the books page by page and found the access/easement page cutting right through the middle of what little they had bought after finding out about it from the original owner who had done it and recorded it, even if it might not have been valid; they knew and checked out so little, they didn't know that, they just knew that on top of everything else they sure didn't want him cutting what little they had in half to go through it to get to behind them. But what they also didn't know was that he also had paid an abstract company, not just a title company, or at least, as we've understood them here, a title company basically just sells title insurance, which would seem to make sense that they would do the research to make sure everything's clear before they would insure but, somehow, at least, we've gotten the idea that's not necessarily the case or at least maybe the homeowner/buyer doesn't necessarily get the info; guess usually as long as they get it insured that's all that matters and I guess usually it is but at least in his case he wanted the actual information; actually it was such a tangle not sure he could actually get insurance; anyway he got a full abstract showing that the property he bought had another bona fide, valid access/easement to it from all the property in front of it; granted, not just that property, well, technically, not that property at all because turned out that it, too, was part of what they thought they'd bought that turned out not to be; like said, they just didn't check out anything; but was between them and the property next door, which they didn't know anything about any of this either; they, too, thought they owned it as well, because they, too, didn't check out their property either when they bought it; they were just trying to get an acre to build a house on, which they got, all right, just not where they thought it was - glad their house got on it okay - but, they, too, sure didn't like finding out there was this access between them for him to get to the property behind them, which, yes, this property did go behind both of these properties. But what was really bad was there was a garage on it that had probably been there long enough to have been claimed by adverse possession but then that get into changes of ownership and how all that works but anyway had never been done so was not valid, somewhat like nonwarranty deeds, but anyway the access/easement had been done by the seller of both of those properties, who had sold them as part of a - by then invalid - subdivision that they were both part of as well as all of the properties along this road - invalid because the county changed the rules for accepting them while he was in the process of supposedly developing his, except that he was doing it under the old rules that he had been given by the local guy who hadn't gotten it approved like he was supposed to, which was somewhat a new process anyway that he wasn't going along with and thought he could circumvent, except that he died before he got things ready - messy enough?

Deb, I wouldn't buy a foreclosed house either, although some of them are in decent condition. However, I've heard too many horror stories about things people did to destroy them before leaving. One realtor told me that someone even brought in some pigs (the oink, oink kind) and left them in the house after they left and took plumbing and other fixtures.

I wasn't suggesting that a as a remedy for TexasHair though - just that getting that kind of report would bring out the issues needed to get clear title.

oh, gardenartist, that's a whole other can of worms - our neighbor got into all that, buying the foreclosed property next door

I'm quite interested in this because we have a similar situation only mil isn't in nursing home yet but I can possibly see it coming down the road; fil had divided his land, at least in the sense of having it surveyed before he passed away and had a deed done for one of his sons and his wife, who had continued to live on the farm and built a structure on it that he didn't want them to lose - but don't believe a warranty one, at least none of the rest of them are, or at least ours isn't - they are all recorded, maybe I need to check - I think in a way the rest of them would like for him to buy it all and at one time I think he would have and he might still be willing but nothing's been signed yet, as far as I know. He bought his farm in pieces with the last piece supposedly being bought in 1978; the reason I say that is because the deed wasn't done on it until 1991, after the person he bought it from had passed away the year before and he got it from his widow, which he'd gotten it from his parents before he got married and it was never titled with worded with her name on it and he'd already divided up his farm before he passed away among his children which caused a dispute regarding this piece of property, since then with that being done his widow was left out even under intestate, at least with all the property he deeded to his children, although he didn't deed this piece to any of them, but they would come under the lineal heirship, like you, but they didn't sign off on it, just like you haven't, so really feel this deed has no standing either, especially since talked to one of the children and she doesn't think the property was ever even bought or at least not paid for in the first place or at least since no deed done when supposedly done in 1978 she said she'd been paying the taxes on her parents place, including this piece for those 25 yrs.; why told we would need an affidavit stating was done but this and the very first piece he bought that he built his house on are recorded at the courthouse, which is why I don't think any of the ones that were done are warranty deeds. Why is her lawyer saying he's needing to do a new warranty deed? fil's lawyer - well, guess then mil's as well after he passed away when she went to have the rest of the deeds done, with not being able to find the one that had been given to the one son, not sure if lawyer didn't tell her, sure seemed to be quite upsetting not being able to find and not getting done either, never said anything about needing to do one in our case and certainly not in just her name; wonder if had anything to do with fil putting a life estate in her name, thus, as we possibly understand, keeping it her homestead, at least until she decided to move and went down to the courthouse and told them and got it taken off, making the taxes higher but also concerning the having then to be sold if need be - could that be and make a difference, which is something I've been wondering and concerned about. Fil left money - talking about $7000 not going far - from what we understand he left her $40,000 to take care of her but also now from what we understand she's already gone through it, which now is the concern we have, if now, if/when? something happens she will have to, as well, see about going on Medicaid. There seems to be real confusion over this life estate, because, from what I understand, that means she, in reality, actually still owns the property? however, on the other hand, other understanding is that she doesn't but still have the idea the life estate has a value but not sure how all this would work then with Medicaid, what concerns me, actually either way, maybe more so if they couldn't because then what would happen, or maybe she would just qualify and there wouldn't be an issue? At least we've gotten the idea that, technically, she's actually responsible for the taxes but she's not taken that responsibility, was not going to pay them, so the children that the farm was divided among have each already been doing that, as well as the one who got the house has been renting it out to cover its expenses, although mil isn't liking it, but yet she's not willing to do anything about it; does she not realize there are expenses to a house? But we seemed to get different answers from the tax assessor and the probate office, which actually handles deeds; the assessors office has only recently started requiring deeds to assess property; before that they would just take whosever word for it, so not sure how much that would actually help. Part of why concerned about getting all this straight now before we get ourselves in that 5 year time frame with her needing care. The original deed for the piece that the house was built on was put in both their names; I almost wish she'd just kept it that way, then she wouldn't have to worry about the house getting rented out.
Interested in what you find out - not sure how much money any of the kids have if they had to actually cough up some to pay for mom's care in order to actually get their land

Mincemeat raises another option. I doubt if a title company would give you too much advice - they do get paid to produce commitments and searches, but the suggestion is a good one.

Years ago during real estate downturns, law firms for which I worked handled commercial foreclosures. We didn't ask for a title commitment, which would identify what interests needed to be addressed for a purchase or sale; we asked for foreclosure searches, which go into more depth on interests that need to be resolved and/or extinguished during an equity (as opposed to an advertisement) foreclosure.

This literally draws out of the woodwork all of the interests of record. If title companies are still preparing what we then knew as that kind of search, it would bring out all the interests and/or conflicts of what seems to be a somewhat complex title issue.

Take the documents that you just described and take them to a title company in your county and see if you can get an opinion on what to do. Consult an attorney about the transfer of funds. If you can get your share for only $7000 that may be the way to go. Usually landowners do not qualify for Medicaid, but also in the world of healthcare $7000 does not go far either. Keep us posted.

Her lawyer sent me the QCD, because they are needing to do a new warranty deed with only her name. Her lawyer could not get this change with out a will or going thru probate. The deed was done back in 1978 when my parents divided the farm and my father received the 40 acres. The deed was not worded with tenant of survivorship and he did not have a POD/TOD. She sold the big farm and gave away the rental house, but both deeds did state tenant of survivorship.
My brother and half brother both signed and filed their QCD. My brother built a house on this farm and my father deeded him 4 acres back in 2001. My father never had a new warranty deed done on the farm after giving my brother his land. My brother does have a warranty deed for his land. My half brother is wanting my brother to purchase the all the land and that is why he signed the QCD.
My stepmother's lawyer emailed me a letter requesting that I place $7,000.00 in a fund for her exspences for transferring my share of land. I told him that I would pay the people for the transfer and that amount was $234.50, but nothing has ever happen. I really believe she will not be approved for Medicaid.

The whole issue of Medicaid estate recovery (aka MERP) really places a spin on how property is dealt with for the surviving spouse, Joint Tenant situations, heirs, etc. Once his stepmom applies for Medicaid, within the application is some sort of "acknowledgement of participation" statement that allows the state to recover any & all costs from their assets both while alive and then in death. Whether your state is aggressive in MERP & has outsourced it OR is still having state employees do recovery, their assets will get either a claim or a lien placed upon it. Heirs do not have to sign off to agree to this either.

Also when their at the NH they must pay their income to the NH as their SOC (share of cost). This places another fun! problem, in that stepmom will have no - none - nada of her income to pay on anything on the farm from here on out. Someone within the family will have to pay all the costs on the house now an till death and then through the probate process. Taxes, maintenance, insurance etc. It adds up. For most, property gets sold within the first few months of their being in a NH.

So Tex, who is gonna pay for everything on the farm from now on? Really you need Missouri legal to figure out just where you & stepmom are in legal ownership asap & before too much $$ & time passes.

I'd be concerned that if the QCD was never filed at courthouse, so that the property has been like forever in your Dad's & stepmom's names, that it's basically without any standing. QCD is not a warranty deed and there is no guarantee of ownership like in a warranty deed.

Tex are you on good terms with whomever is doing the paperwork for step-mom? Doing things with ownership at any time from now to 5 years back, will have an eligibility problem for her. Probably with a transfer penalty. If you all are not at all kum-ba-ya to begin with, this could get quite ugly.

I believe when real estate property is held in joint tenacy as a couple, the surviving spouse becomes the exclusive owner of the property. It depends alot on how the deed is written.

Texas, if you are research ownership of the farm and you find out you hold ownership with your stepmom, you may look at cutting the farm in half and severing your joint tenancy or tenants in common status. Each state's laws are different, but if it looks like medicaid might take things, you need to see if you can at least take half. The homestead exemption may only leave you with 35 or 40 acres.

Mincemeat - you might find interesting an article on how title co are now being dragged into MERP. Google "Stargazer MERP Texas" - it's a couple of years old but interesting in how for properties being sold but owned by over 55 have an add'l layer of title search. Stargazer is title co association newsletter.

Igloo gives good advice. Another idea if you have access to the estate paperwork is to find out who, if anyone has done the titlework. You can call your county tax assessor to find out how the farm is titled, if there are any liens against it, etc. In some parts of the world, a title company (they sell title insurance and are a necessary part of any real estate transaction) would better at quickly determining WHO exactly owns the property. Sounds like you need to find a lawyer experience in both estates and real estate. (And NEVER sign a quit claim deed unless a lawyer advises it.)

Tex - there isn't going to be a simple answer and you are going to have to get an attorney in Missouri to deal with this. You don't have to have a will or do probate to get the deceased assets changed, you can do this by a lineal heirship; they are done all the time but you need an attorney and it will take more time and the attorney will have to find out all details on the deceased past (marriages, divorces, children, property searches in any states lives, etc); you may have to have folks sign off that they knew him, etc. But lineal heirship can be done.

Whatever the case, there's intestate death & lineal heirship issues and then the possibility of stepmom being ineligible for Medicaid due to the QCD done. Plus the whole sticky of QCD not being a guarantee of ownership & also it seems you never went to the courthouse to register the QCD as the deed is still in their names. You all need an attorney.

I'd guess that what is probably going to happen is if the property shows up tax assessor records as an asset owned by her & your dad, then if she applies for Medicaid (Medicaid NOT Medicare) - which is a state program (Medicare is federal) the farm if that is her homestead will be an exempt asset during her lifetime but when she dies, Medicaid is required to do estate recovery to offset the costs paid for her care. This is the MERP program and all states have to have it in place. Each state runs MERP uniquely & very much interdependent on the states laws on probate, property rights, etc. If the farm is not her homestead, then it's an asset & will need to be sold with the proceeds down as her spend-down before Medicaid will pay.

You never filed the QCD?

My stepmother was placed in a nursing home and now applying for Medicare. Can the nursing home take the family farm? The deed is still in my father and stepmother's name and I will not sign a Quit Claim Deed. My father is deceased and he owned this farm before this marriage and there for his children do inherit 1/4 of the farm.

How was title held on the deed? You write that his name "cannot be taken off of the farm" - was he the sole owner stated on the deed?

States generally have laws for people who die intestate (without a will) specifying the order of asset distribution.

It sounds as if there are some family issues as well as the title issue. I assume you won't quit (not quick) claim your interest for various reasons, including that you don't want your stepmother to have the property. So apparently you were one of the heirs, or were named on the deed jointly with your father? It sounds also as if the property became yours after your father's death, by virtue of holding joint title with him. Further, that your stepmother wants to remove you from ownership but you don't agree?

I'm just trying to read between the lines here to figure out the situation.

I'm not clear on why the state would acquire the property. Was your father on Medicaid?

Check this out: it addresses Missouri laws on the assets of someone who dies intestate. You can also google "Missouri intestate laws" to get more information.

http://www.moga.mo.gov/mostatutes/stathtml/47400000101.HTML

But I think the issue is more between you and your stepmother, so we can't really answer thoroughly without some knowledge of that situation as well as whether or not your father was getting Medicaid.