I posted back in February and then in April about my 78-year-old MIL moving with us out of state. My last posts have more detail that would be impossible to reiterate here, but bottom line is she was supposed to come stay with us as an independent roommate, but the week she got here she admitted that she lied about her income and needed us to essentially take care of her financially. After several months of paying all her bills, I nipped this in the bud — I began enforcing the original agreement that she was to pay $500 towards rent, and after months of paying her car insurance, medications, groceries, phone bill, etc I began flat out refusing. I told her she needed to get a job or figure something else out but that we would no longer be paying her way. She resisted very dramatically, acting as if we were forcing her to go without her medications and food, and allowing her car insurance to lapse so she could lament that WE “let it go unpaid,” and telling a neighbor that we refused to pay to fix her flat tire so that the neighbors chipped in and bought her a tire (😳), but I firmly kept telling her that she is a grown up and must pay her own way because we are still a young family and our responsibility is to our young child, not her.
Finally, after many weeks of my taking this tact, she got a small part time job in retail up the street. She now has her own money but still refuses to buy her own groceries and if I refuse to include her in all our meals (which was getting very expensive), she’ll act like we are abusing her and start saying that the doctor is concerned she’s losing weight or may be diabetic. It's all manipulation, and it's caused a lot of grief in my otherwise-perfect marriage because I finally began refusing to reward this behavior (my husband still allows himself to be manipulated by her and guilt-tripped —he always has).
After several really crazy incidents (her speaking badly about me daily to my 9 year old daughter, treating our daughter badly when shes angry at me, pretending to “break down” on the highway and making my husband leave a business meeting to go retrieve her to make him feel guilty for telling her we would no longer be driving her everywhere and running all her errands since she insists on keeping her $500/month car payment, and $200/month insurance, catching her in repeated lies), we told her this is not working and she needs to find her own place ASAP. However, she has refused to do so, and it has become clear to us that if we want her out, WE must find the place and WE must pay the security deposit and WE must move her. She no longer speaks to me, making my home so tense I can hardly bear it.
Anyway, here’s my question: when she first moved in, I took her to several doctors appointments to have her tested for dementia. The doctor says she does not show any dementia, just normal aging. However, her behavior is so bizarre we feel he has to be wrong. Aside from the constant lying and refusal to do anything for herself and all the daily manipulation, (I know this sounds really crazy) we think she has been cutting our clothes. When we told her we expect her to help out around the house, we began finding bleach stains and clear scissor cuts in our clothes. Last week, I left my phone on the counter and when I came back in the house, it was gone. We searched for hours, and after I mentioned I was going to try to GPS locate it in the house, it suddenly appeared in a place I already checked a several times. I found out yesterday she had “accidentally” told her doctor’s office to put all her copays on MY HSA card, draining my health account of over $300. What is my next move? Should I have her re-evaluated? Maybe she needs assisted care?
At this point, it's become intractable. MIL isn't going to change, DH isn't going to change. Only you can do anything. I agree with other posters here who suggest moving out to protect your daughter, Moving her out will also feel destabilizing, but if you build in lots of stability, and really explain why you're making this choice, it will help her feel protected.
The worst thing about being a child in a crazy home is you're left with a persistent sense of insecurity, because the people you naturally depend on for safety are not actually keeping you safe. The fact that nothing is done to correct the situation, and the culture of denial that anything is wrong, undermines the child's developing sense of what's ok and what's not.
If you move out and provide her with a stable, sane home life, you can continue to work on the problem of removing MIL from your home, and ultimately repairing your marriage.
Unfortunately, it's falling on you to do tbis, because your DH and his mother have a lonnng, entrenched history that realistically is not fixable unless DH himself decides to work on it. As someone else here said, do your homework, keep focused on the outcome you want, disengage from the drama, and take the steps.
Most of all, protect your daughter. She didn't choose this, but the experience will stick with her as she grows to adulthood.
Good luck.
What may happen is: she will stop paying rent, since she is so good at playing the 'helpless and without resources' card. She will be evicted. Then she will be homeless, which may "earn" her a higher spot on the waiting list. Just a thought.
My mother, with significant vascular dementia, routinely scored as unimpaired on the standard "mini-mental" exam right up until her death. She could no longer manage her affairs or reason, but those skills are not assessed by that instrument.
Has MIL been seen by a geriatric psychiatrist? Has she had a full (generally 3-6 hour) cognitive and neurological evaluation?
Please pursue getting your HSA account straightened out; talk to the office manager in that doc's office and find out what MIL told them; THAT doctor ought to be your advocate in getting MIL's needs assessed.
Doesn't your husband understand that she has no intention of leaving. Next time it will be a different excuse.
She will have to be dealt with or you will have to decide if you are willing to let your child be psychologically abused by this evil, selfish thing and then have her own problems because no one protected her, or will you be the change for the next generation and go give her a safe, loving, sane home. There is only one good decision and since your husband isn't going to make it, you unfortunately get to choose from the lesser of two evils.
Shame on your husband for letting his mom do these awful things to the woman he promised to forsake all others for and to love, honor and cherish. He is failing miserably. Please tell him I said so. He is also willingly letting her subject his child to abuse, it may be different but the scars will still be there. He really needs a good therapist to get his head pulled out so he can man up and deal with this creature that he calls mom.
“. I admit feeling resentful about my new role... especially because we aren’t yet sure if MIL has cognitive decline or is just sick of working and wants to be taken care of and financially supported”
78 and sick of working. Really? You bet you arse she would like some TLC, love and care and support
we we have a saying in Oz. “ I would hate to be stuck in the trenches with you “
Our children are not retirement programs. Out adult children's primary obligation is the protection of their minor children and the funding of their own retirement.
Would YOU put up with the abuse this elderly woman commits on YOUR granddaughter?
Regarding your MIL, while she may or may not have dementia, she is definitely mentally unstable. If this was a suddenly new behavior I'd suggest she get tested for a UTI. But it sounds as if this is a continuing behavior, so I think it is manipulation and fear of losing her son, who, by the way, needs to become more involved in this situation. You need to have a heart to heart with him and tell him that you will not tolerate her behavior. You and your daughter should come first for him and if that is not the case, then you need to decide how far you are going to take this. Are you willing to leave?
I do have to say, however, that it sounds a little cold to expect a 78 year old woman to go out and get a job. Why did you bring her with you when you moved?
I have read all your posts and think you are one of the coldest people I have come across. If you don’t want her there then just say so. Don’t back it up with you skewed statistical black column red column bookkeeping.
https://www.ahnphealth.com/science.html
Also, I'd install cameras for further proof. Might not necessarily tell the husband right away, since he is in obvious avoidance of the situation, but I'd want video proof her her actions... maybe once he actually sees her doing these things he'll wake up.
And... $500/month car payment, and $200/month insurance? That's insanity. If she can't afford it, she shouldn't be driving.
Example: My 79 yr old cousin came to visit for a weekend and she stayed for an entire year. She fell running with her walker to get the phone.. She had a mild concussion and had some memory loss. We took her to the ER. and then she was discharged . I brought her back to our house until she got better. The next week while we were at an appointment she fell again. She was trying to close the blinds mid way up the stairs and fell down the stairs with a chair on top of her head. I told her before we went out not to worry about the blinds. I told my cousin she can't live alone at least until she is able to do all ADL's. We talked about her moving in permanently but we all decided as a family it might be too much. I take care of my 96 year old mother 24/7 and my time is devoted to her but I made sure she was taken care and I did it out of love for my cousin. I made her meals, took her to appointments, did her laundry, picked up her meds and so on. I have a family too and people that depend on me. There are lots of wonderful people with very busy lives that open their heart to our elderly population, why not open yours? She went to rehab for a month and did quite well. We went to see her everyday. The doctor discharged her home and is doing well. She is in a elderly housing apartment and loves it. She has lots of friends, good neighbors and a nursing clinic in the basement of the apartment complex. She has a housekeeper once week and someone is always checking in on her. I feel relieved she is in a good place with lots of support. I am glad I was able to help my cousin even though it was difficult at times.
As a caretaker yourself, you know how difficult it is on many levels. And not all people are appropriate caretakers for a myriad of reasons. It seems to me that you were trying to guilt/shame Jo and I think that is unfair. Your situation/history with family members may have been quite different than Jo's. And/or your financial situation may not be as problematic at Jo's. You might be comparing apples and oranges.
Read what DrB, Takincare and Isthisreallyreal have advised. Over and over.
You need to kickstart the correction. Carefully. Methodically. Respectfully. But - you. Your husband doesn’t have the b*lls.
Do your homework. Make a plan. And don’t back down.
Some good takeaways: Your daughter needs feel safe in her home. Your daughter deserves - and needs - to be nobody’s pawn and nobody’s sounding board. It’s MIL against the world, not just you three. Keep it neutral; no complaining or venting. Document, document, document.
If you are concerned that this will affect your marriage, too late. It already has affected your marriage.
You are already locked into the role of “always being the bigger person.” Take that mindset to the next level — and continue to “be the bigger person” as you engineer MIL out the door.
You only get get one shot at giving your child a non-deranged, non-pathological home life. Your MIL blew it during your husband’s upbringing. Your husband is making the same mistake with your daughter’s home life.
Your husband’s footprint is more passive, but that does not excuse it — and it does not mitigate the damage.
If your husband is incapable of recognizing this, it does not give him a free pass.
Big hugs. Stay focused. No negative talk. Do your homework and git-R-done.
The only way I've ever found to deal with malignant narcissists is to put as much land mass between myself and them as possible. Your young family is your top priority in life, and you must not allow your MIL's presence to tear you guys apart.
My advice: Tell her that she has two weeks to find a suitable living arrangement (apartment, roommate, etc.) or you will install her in assisted living. Then make good on that threat--collect brochures for AL places and put them around the house, call facilities while she is watching and make appointments for tours, start stacking up boxes for her to pack her things. Chances are she will try to guilt you by pretending to get sick, or she might even "let up" on her narcissistic behaviour. Don't fall for it. Remain positive and firm. If she asks you why you want her to leave, simply say the current arrangement is not working. You owe her no more than that. If she doesn't find her own place after a few days of this, that first visit to the AL facility will probably do the trick. Do not give her any options--stand firm and do it for your family. Narcissists have a habit of living to a ripe old age, and you will never have any peace unless you put your foot down now.
My 92-year-old mother is a malignant narcissist, and I've been dealing with her toxicity for 56 years. The only way I can tolerate her is to live at least 1,000 miles away from her. I wish you all the best, and BE STRONG!
Is there no way you can get a second opinion regarding your MIL having Dementia from another doctor.
You can't continue to live like that. As you say your a young couple and have a 9 year old daughter who is also suffering due to it
It's hard to know whether she's playing you both or if she has dementia. No matter which one it is i don't think you can continue to live this way. This will have an awful effect on your 9 year old daughter. When you MIL time comes and she passes away you don't want your daughters memories to be of a nasty granny.
It would surprise me that your MIL is being nasty i feel there is a medical reason. Good luck and i hope you get sorted soon. X
At least with my mother, earlier dementia took some of her filters away so her basic personality disorder was more apparent but there were other signs ie she couldn’t keep track of her medication. We’d put them into pill holders weekly but she was sure we did it wrong(🙄) and we’d find stray pills all over the house. She’d pay bills over and over or send money to junk mail ie assumed an ad with any figure mentioned was a bill to pay. Her rants got much worse but there were other changes as well. Your MIL sounds like a mentally ill woman more than dementia.
i wouldn’t be too hard on your husband, his mother has groomed him his whole life to feel responsible for her , but I would insist he seek counseling. Or maybe go together. You don’t want to force him to choose , he needs to see the reality for himself.
1. Do not pay her bills, any of them.
2. If she is eating with you, do not serve the food at the table. Put it on plates in the kitchen and everyone gets a plate. Everyone gets fed, and she cannot take larger servings leaving someone else without. If she wants more to eat she will have to buy her own snacks.
3. Your daughter is old enough for an explanation that grandma isn't always right in the head. Get books on how to explain this without scaring her or making her defensive for either of you. At her age she needs her family to love her and to feel secure.
4. You have a right to feel secure in your own home. If MIL interferes with this she goes. This isn't a debate, it is a basic need. MIL was able to manage before she lived with you and she can do that now. Husband needs to understand this.
5. Your husband has been abused by her his entire life. He is still trying to earn her love and respect. This will never happen. He needs help to accept this. It isn't his fault, she just isn't capable of normal relationships and never has been.
6. Does MIL have siblings or cousins that she likes? If so, send her there.
7. Do NOT make this between MIL and you. It isn't. It is between her and the world. You are just one of her victims.
8. If her "friends" want to help her or give her money let them. They will eventually see through her, so don't worry about what they think of you based on her whining.
9. Hide your money and valuables. Don't leave cash or credit cards where she might find them. Put jewelry in a safe deposit box.
10. Take pictures of the damage she does (cut up clothes). You may someday need them for legal purposes.
11. Let your extended family know what is happening. Don't complain, just spell it out factually. You may need their support now or in the future.
www.nami.org - look for a chapter near you and get information about how to manage family members with mental illness. You can't fix this and she doesn't want to fix it so don't try. Just do what you need to and get your safe, loving family back to normal.
Sounds like you have an unwanted guest that needs to be removed...
I'm not an alarmist, but I have lived with a person who suffers from mental illness off his meds and things get scary. The energy in the home stays toxic and affects everyone. It is a very very unhealthy situation for everyone. Your child should not have to be around such behavior.
I hope you can get this toxic woman out of your home soon!!