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We applied for Medicade just before she was hospitalized for 3 days. So I take it the money she gave as a gift last year has to be paid back before she can go to the nursing home with medicade assistance? will they take payments? I am going to cry.
Auntie - what you are dealing with is a "transfer penalty". How it gets dealt with is very much dependent on how your state manages Medicaid, what the individual NH policy is and the period of time she will be "ineligible".
I would suggest that you speak to the NH to see if she is currently having her stay paid for by Medicare. First speak with the social worker and then the billing office, Usually if they are in the hospital for 3 or more days and then discharged for rehabilitation to a NH, the first 20 - 27 days are paid by Medicare. It is usually during that period of time, that you apply for Medicaid and they are accepted "Medicaid pending". The good part about if Medicare is paying it does give you a bit of breathing room to your panic.
You need to ask what the transfer penalty is for your state. For example in Texas it's about $ 148.00 a day - which is the state's NH reinbursement rate. Texas is low and so 10K is a l....o...n...g. time. But if your state, pays $ 350 a day, it's alot less time. Also ask the NH what needs to be done in order for her to stay there. It may be that you will have to sign off a contract for the 10K or a deposit of $ 5K.
If the 10K was used for her care or her needs and you can document that, then those amounts can be deducted. Or if the 10K was reinbursement for expenses you paid on her behalf, those amounts can be deducted. I'd get an attorney to work this out for you. Good luck and yes it can seem overwhelming.
I don't have the answer, but I am very curious about how this situation plays out in the real world.
In my case, about 10 years ago my grandmother had socked away a fair amount of money that she had been able to save by living with my mother and me for the previous 10 years. (I lived on the property but in a quasi-guest house in back) About half of her money was in CD's designated for her adult grandchildren.
Well, when my mother passed away at that time, my grandmother somehow felt that her own end might be near, and foolishly gave my sister and my cousins (but not me - the actual caregiver!) their "inheritance". Over $40,000. I was too consumed by the shock of my mother's passing to think clearly, but obviously in hindsight I should have advised her to absolutely NOT do that.
Anyway, my grandmother made a "deal" with me to leave me whatever she had left in exchange for me promising to take care of her "til the end". What I didn't understand at the time was that she would use the threat of ripping me off completely to control my entire life to the point that even going out for a hair cut once every 4 months or so resulted in a crisis where I was told to move out.
Despite her horrible behaviour, I kept my promise to her, and - very probably related to me being a health theorist extraordinaire - she lasted to almost age 106. 100% drug-free.
Bottom line is that although having a 24/7 caregiver / companion / health theorist grandson was good for her, it was a horrible deal for me, and for my own welfare (socially, financially, career-ically) I should have arranged for assisted living and eventually NH within the first year.
But... where this ties in to your predicament is that I have always wondered whether or not my sister and cousins would have been required to pay back the $40,000 (plus $500 each for Christmas, $300 for birthdays) if I had left. The fact is that they were all typical spend-even-more-than-you-earn-during-boom-times types, and would not be able to come up with it. Would the Medicaide rules result in putting a 100-year old granny out in the street? I can't believe that.
So, yes, I would like to know what TRULY happens when an elder gives away substantial assets during the 5-year period, and then requires NH paid by Medicaide.
It seems to me that this is a big HOLE in our culture where "we" don't see that an elder - who might be just a short while away from requiring massive support by the taxpayers - is not in a position to make substantial gifts to relatives. It should be unthinkable, but it isn't.
And believe me, that is not intended as a criticism of you. Or me, or my relatives. It's only natural to accept gifts from family, especially if they are somewhat reciprocal.
Well, good luck. There seem to be a number of Medicaide-planning experts here, so maybe you'll get an answer soon. I hope it works out for you and your mother.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I would suggest that you speak to the NH to see if she is currently having her stay paid for by Medicare. First speak with the social worker and then the billing office, Usually if they are in the hospital for 3 or more days and then discharged for rehabilitation to a NH, the first 20 - 27 days are paid by Medicare. It is usually during that period of time, that you apply for Medicaid and they are accepted "Medicaid pending". The good part about if Medicare is paying it does give you a bit of breathing room to your panic.
You need to ask what the transfer penalty is for your state. For example in Texas it's about $ 148.00 a day - which is the state's NH reinbursement rate. Texas is low and so 10K is a l....o...n...g. time. But if your state, pays $ 350 a day, it's alot less time. Also ask the NH what needs to be done in order for her to stay there. It may be that you will have to sign off a contract for the 10K or a deposit of $ 5K.
If the 10K was used for her care or her needs and you can document that, then those amounts can be deducted. Or if the 10K was reinbursement for expenses you paid on her behalf, those amounts can be deducted. I'd get an attorney to work this out for you. Good luck and yes it can seem overwhelming.
Sorry to read about your misfortune.
I don't have the answer, but I am very curious about how this situation plays out in the real world.
In my case, about 10 years ago my grandmother had socked away a fair amount of money that she had been able to save by living with my mother and me for the previous 10 years. (I lived on the property but in a quasi-guest house in back) About half of her money was in CD's designated for her adult grandchildren.
Well, when my mother passed away at that time, my grandmother somehow felt that her own end might be near, and foolishly gave my sister and my cousins (but not me - the actual caregiver!) their "inheritance". Over $40,000. I was too consumed by the shock of my mother's passing to think clearly, but obviously in hindsight I should have advised her to absolutely NOT do that.
Anyway, my grandmother made a "deal" with me to leave me whatever she had left in exchange for me promising to take care of her "til the end". What I didn't understand at the time was that she would use the threat of ripping me off completely to control my entire life to the point that even going out for a hair cut once every 4 months or so resulted in a crisis where I was told to move out.
Despite her horrible behaviour, I kept my promise to her, and - very probably related to me being a health theorist extraordinaire - she lasted to almost age 106. 100% drug-free.
Bottom line is that although having a 24/7 caregiver / companion / health theorist grandson was good for her, it was a horrible deal for me, and for my own welfare (socially, financially, career-ically) I should have arranged for assisted living and eventually NH within the first year.
But... where this ties in to your predicament is that I have always wondered whether or not my sister and cousins would have been required to pay back the $40,000 (plus $500 each for Christmas, $300 for birthdays) if I had left. The fact is that they were all typical spend-even-more-than-you-earn-during-boom-times types, and would not be able to come up with it. Would the Medicaide rules result in putting a 100-year old granny out in the street? I can't believe that.
So, yes, I would like to know what TRULY happens when an elder gives away substantial assets during the 5-year period, and then requires NH paid by Medicaide.
It seems to me that this is a big HOLE in our culture where "we" don't see that an elder - who might be just a short while away from requiring massive support by the taxpayers - is not in a position to make substantial gifts to relatives. It should be unthinkable, but it isn't.
And believe me, that is not intended as a criticism of you. Or me, or my relatives. It's only natural to accept gifts from family, especially if they are somewhat reciprocal.
Well, good luck. There seem to be a number of Medicaide-planning experts here, so maybe you'll get an answer soon. I hope it works out for you and your mother.