What can I do about an irrational senior mother?

What ever it takes, get her out of your house. Period! They are nothing but "Mental Vampires."

Get a shrink.

(((((BJ1Okla)))) sounds familiar. It used to be phone calls, then it became emails. I have had up to 25 in a day demanding attention, and she gets mad when they don't get answered immediately. I don't think there is any enjoying a narcissistic parent - not much anyway, I am glad you are having a family meeting and telling your mum she has to go into independent living. The stress does hurt, and more and more as you get older. I would be thankful that she won't talk today, though I know the atmosphere this kind thing creates is sheer tension. Be prepared for her to react and overreact and say nasty thungs, but hold firm. This is no way for you and your family to live, I am so sorry that so many of us have to go through this. I had a childhood full of it, a teenage, young, middle aged, and older adulthood, and now at 75 I want some peace. I need some peace. Protect yourself! Blessings and (((((hugs)))) Let us know how the meeting goes.

I can so relate. So much. My mom has started something new lately. If I 'talk back' to her (her words), she 'punishes me' by staying in her room after making huge messes in the kitchen. I took her to my sister's house yesterday around 2pm so I could meet with my son a few miles away to have dinner out, a rare event for me. My sister finally got to witness what I've been telling her about Mom. I met my son at 3pm and we had about one hour of a great visit before mom started calling me. I sent a text to my sister to make sure mom was okay and then tried to continue enjoying my short visit with my son. Six calls in less than 20 minutes to me and 4 calls to my son's phone. Her messages were demanding, asking why it was taking me so long. I'd met my son 30 minutes away and really had just gotten there. After two hours I just gave up because the calls weren't going to stop. She told my sister she knew I'd get mad at her for calling but 'she didn't care and was going to call me anyway" ... which she did. When I arrived back at my sister's house to pick her up, my sister asked if we'd had a good time and I said .."we were until the phone calls started." That really made Mom mad and she said .."I knew it! I knew you'd be mad at me for calling!" and she was stomping around, gathering up her purse for me to take her home. All in all, including the travel time (one hour), I was away from her for 3 hours and 15 minutes. That is how possessive and obsessive she is of me. And because I dared to speak up, she's refusing to talk today ... only coming out of her room to cook (three times today) and make another huge mess in the kitchen.

So we have set a family meeting for this Saturday. It will be my sister and brother in law, my nephew, my son and me ... and we are going to tell mom she needs to go to independent living. She has the funds. I'm so very tired of her obsessing about me and so tired of being with her constantly. I so want to enjoy my mom in her final years but the stress is really hurting me. She has already alienated my sister by 'dismissing her' and not wanting to spend any time with her and now my son, who has always loved his Grandmother -- is not happy with her.

None of this is easy.

@apples - you might try your local agency on aging and'or social services., also any alz/dementia group in town, or caregivers group. Looking after a demented senior is not small job. There may well be help out there for you. The job is not going to get any easier. If her doc will call her incapacitated, which I suspect she is at stage 5 alz. you can go through the courts for guardianship or conservatorship so you can manage her finances. Eventually she may need to be placed in a facility for the good of all. Read around thus site - there are many going through thge same thig. Great that your brother is on board. Good luck!

Well, I belong to the club, and agree that setting boundaries, detaching and distancing is all that works. They are never happy for long, and any good deed doesn't go unpunished. The effects of such a parent are lifelong, and require a lot of work and energy to combat. Mine is 100 and doing well, still in an ALF, I am 75 and have virtually cut contact in the last year, as since I turned 70 and moved her to one ALF and then another as she couldn't get along in the first one, the stress has affected my health. I told her if she could not manage there, the next move would be to a nursing home. Her complaints are continuous, very repetitive ( not dementia - she has always been like this) and nasty. Her energy in being critical, seems endless. I had POA though she is still capable of looking after her affairs, Not sure if she has appointed someone else since I set some very firm boundaries about the nasty communications I was getting. As I result I haven't heard anything for several months, and like midwest, the less I hear, the better off am. I have a narcissistic sister waiting in the wings to inherit all of what mother will leave. Apparently she has planned this for years, and does what she can to blackball me. Whatever! No money is worth it, and they will use their even limited funds to manipulate and emotionally blackmail. Look out for FOG - manipulation through fear, obligation and guilt. Obligation is a big one - though they seem to forget that they have some obligations too - as from one human being to another, Let go of the fear and guilt buttons which were implanted in you from birth. Narcissistic people have an enlarged and unrealistic sense of entitlement to other people's time and energy, and what others will put up with. You have to protect yourself. Karyl McBride wrote a book for daughters of narcissistic mothers called "Will I ever be good enough?" We all know the answer to that. As the mother of a narcissistic daughter too, I am convinced it is genetic in our family as there are cousins on my mother's side like her, though her siblings were the nicest people you could meet. The book could also be written to mothers if narcissistic daughters, and the answer to the question is also "No". I am surrounded by narcissists. The good things are forgotten and anything that could be called negative - like saying the weather is bad when there are weather warnings out, is construed as being negative. Right now I am unsuccessfully trying to negotiate how to see my grandchildren, as my daughter has gotten worse in the past year probably due to approaching menopause. She is well educated but can't hold down a job, and has no friends. She does well on antidepressants but won't take them. Life goes on, and you have to take the good parts and move forward with them.
Thanks for letting me vent. Who thought the retirement I worked so hard for would be like this? Not me!!! (((((hugs)))) and blessings

I don't really have an answer; just a great deal of empathy. This site has helped me just by reading the responses of the people who visit. We too are taking care of my mom who is in stage 5 of dementia. We live in a black and white world of extremes. Her erratic behavior has led to us not being able to talk to her about anything; she no longer has the ability to think rationally. The She has no short term memory and basically lives in a world where everything is fine and paid for - which of course it is not. The latest thing now is that she will read the newspaper and come up with some irrational comment about how the article she's read affects my family. What makes it worse by not having POA or guardianship I can't help her with her finances. My dad passed away last June, so it's just me and my brother. We now take turns taking care of her, but my family's patience is running thin. I certainly don't want to complain as so many people have situations far worse than mine, I just don't know what to do next. Whom do I contact for help? Any suggestions.

Thanks brokeneck. We all must do what we have to, in order to stay emotionally and physically healthy.
I still think of my mother, but each day goes by I feel better. The less I communicate the better I'm off.
Hugs to all.

we wish you the best and you cannot deprive yourself of your own health and happiness, it is hard to to just erase them out of your head, because of all you have sacrificed, it has been about 2 months since i have even spoke to my mother, but it feels like she has put a curse on me, consent irritation, depression, bless you and hang in there.

If the Senior does not have dementia and they are irrational, then they have been mean spirited all their lives and there is nothing anyone can do. In fact they are going to get worse. There is no gratitude.
I'm still working through the nightmare that my 85 year old mother caused me when she came to visit me in California. I thought she was lonely and I felt guilty leaving Chicago and I suggested she come and visit me for the winter months. Huge mistake. She was belligerent, vile, hurtful and simply mean spirited not only towards me but to strangers as well. I haven't lived with her since I was 23 years old and I left her home as soon as I could. She was problematic through out my entire life and I always forgave her. She always stated "you are against me" if I did not agree with her and I clarified it by stating "I'm not against you, I simply disagree with you, after all I do have my own opinion." This simply taught me that if we do not do or believe with their thoughts and actions, we are being criticized, put down in the worst way, for me, my mother would state "I wish you were never born and you do not know how much I hate you." Mind you this is not a woman who has dementia, she simply is mean and hateful. And yet she would reel me in since I was a child with her pitiful I'm sorry. She would slither back in to my life and once I was comfortable again being around her, she would slowly tear in to my character and we would not speak for a while. She meddled in my life and I always had excuses for her. My mother was the Queen of meanness.
There is an ongoing drama going on with her and me. At this time we are not talking because I chose to be non communicative, even though it hurts me. Although I do not need to be mothered at my age (63) I still feel very abandon. I have to keep limited communication. If I allow her in to my life I will open myself up for continues abuse. As a child she was physically and emotionally abusive and I did not know any better. As an adult she continued to be verbally abusive towards me. I never put 2 and 2 together as her having a narcissistic behavior issue, until December 2012. I was in such dis spear of her behavior when she was visiting me, and I went on line searching for answers and I found this site.
Update:
My Birthday came and she sent me a Birthday card. The card was seeping with sweetness and I was an "angel" underlined. I wanted to gag. She also called me and as soon as I heard her voice, I hung up on her. And yet I am very sad that I have to do the silent treatment. I think of her often and tears come to my eyes. I'm terribly hurt and I can't understand how a Mother can say those brutal words " I wish you were never born." I have children and I never even contemplated these type of words. Mind you my children do not want anything to do with her because she has offended them as well and now they know how she hurt me recently, they are pleading with me to erase her out of my life, for she is simply nasty. How does one do it? I think the only time I will be free is when she is dead.

I have found that most of the issues here discussed are things many of us already are aware of how to handle, but we need reassurance and insights from those who 'get it'. Cheaper and probably more effective than counseling in some instances! HA! Also, having a sense of humor does help, no matter how dire the circumstance. We are here for each other!

welcome BJ10kla, you will find that there are many here who have great advice and have or are going through similar situations and they are very willing to help. just ask your detailed question, great site

My heart goes out to each of you. I'm caring for an 'irrational' Mother who is NOT suffering from any sort of dementia. She's just controlling. I'm new hear and anxious in sharing and getting advice.

good point, and i have seen her act before with doctors and others, thanks frustrated2

I think in an abusive parent-child relationship we grow up thinking we are bad and unworthy and always, always in the wrong. You say you are going to try to calmly explain, etc. but I think my crystal ball tells me she may become enraged anyway. You never tell a self centered narcissist how it's going to be. Am I right? I wouldn't 'try to explain' but I would just keep it to the point and give her the scoop, then move on. You have literally 'broken your back' to make her happy. Do NOT let her convince you that you owe her more. If she needs help, assist in helping to find someone who is paid to do that. My guess is she will be charming with someone who she perceives doesn't have her number.

thank you all, for your compassion and understanding, i think i am just going to calmly try and and explain to her that we are just too sick to care for her, whenever i talk to her again, my wife still calls and talks to her weekly and i know my does not tell me everything because my mother still tells my wife things like,, it is her job to make me a better son and that kinda of poison just drives me up the wall, my wife has gone far and beyond, what a daughter-in-law should, because she has grown up in a semi functional family life, she is wonderful, we don't really know what or where we would be without somebody like my wife, in our lives??

Try to take life easy and enjoy as much of it as you can, in spite of all the misery you and your have had and continue to physically feel. You are in my prayers. So sorry it took all of this to 'get it'. You both need calm and peace; stress is very bad for chronic pain.
She sounds evil. Stay away.

thank you ferris1 and everyone else, she is my mother and he is my stepfather, 8 years ago, i developed pain in my arm, which led to c-2 to c-4 fusion and 3 botched nerve stimulator implant surgeries where the unit was broken during installation, surgeon reinserted the paddle over 52 times to get it to stay centered, failed surgeries with broken pieces left in there, which led to another fusion c-2 to c-6 and severe permanent spinal and nerve damage, the pain has been crippling, the surgeon lost 2 patients on the table and butchered 4 others like me, all in the effort to relief my pain, i now have a pain pump implanted and i feel worse than ever. recently i received a call from my stepfather, stating that i need to go out there and pick her up, because she locked him out of the house and he could not take it no more, so i did and she was acting completely crazy, foaming at the mouth , crazy, at my home she started to do her fake falls, 5 total, twice i caught her in mid fall, which put me on my knees, lower back in the l-4, l-5 area, disks were damaged, i am now numb below the waist, can't feel anything and my upper pain is a 8-9 level when she realized that i was really re injured she never fell again for the remaining 3 weeks of hell in my own home, its been 4 months without a fall, i can't understand how somebody can be so evil, her husband said that he can handle it, when i suggested a care facility for her, but he has started showing signs of dementia and denying the truth, plus his physical condition is heading south, my wife truly believes he is cancer ridden,70 years without seeing a doctor,dipping snuff and bad food, they both live on fast food, i am now too disabled, drained and in too much excruciating pain , and my poor wife never got a break from my mother's wicked abusive attacks, even when we were battling my wife's breast cancer 4 years ago, she too agrees that its enough, we need to survive.

My 78 year old mother is an abusive liar. My dad (married to her 60 years) has become equally bad, as I guess he had to adjust his mentality and personality to stay in the marriage. They are very proud of the 60 year thing and snipe at me for being married (now) for the third time, even though they agree that I should not be married to the other two and have been happily married now for 10 years. Almost 18 months ago I set my mother straight finally about gossip about other family members and she has been on a hateful 'campaign of distortion' against me ever since. I am supposedly being written out of the will for the third time in my life, which they put my brother up to 'warning' me against, ie, must 'apologize' for mainly telling her that I have boundaries or 'mom wants to write you out of the will and dad is on the fence'. Up to this point, they vacationed at our home at least once a year for a month, we footed the bill for almost everything and treated them like royalty, etc. Took them on a couple of cruises which we paid for, and they were actively looking at downsizing and moving to our locale, where we would have been caring for them all the time. Now I get crazy-grams from my mother every couple of months, which I am sure my dad knows nothing about and would cover for he/say he is aware of them even if he wasn't. It's a mess. Due to the someday 'paycheck', my four siblings are dealing directly with her crazy, although all of them have admitted that she takes out the worst of it on me. Even knowing that, they now have turned the tables and pretty much go with "We can get along with her, why can't you?". I can't, because she needs a punching bag. I can't, because I was the closest to her mother in law, my grandmother, who was more like a mother to me and my mother has always resented and been jealous of that relationship (she has been dead 21 years and I still have to hear bad things about her from my mother, IF we talk).
My husband finally stepped in a couple of weeks ago and called them on the behavior. They backpedaled and lied throughout the entire conversation (it came after my mother sent me one of her awful 'letters' saying that she didn't like the birthday card or the gift we sent her and telling me that 'she tells all her church friends what a horrible daughter I am and they can't believe it'. When my husband talked to my dad he said that my mother would never have written or done that!!! We HAVE THE LETTER SHE WROTE. Hello.). Later that evening, my mother called my husband back in her best 'little old lady' voice and said she 'wanted to apologize to him' (not to me), BUT that he didn't know what a horrible person I really am!
I swear, I do not know what her bone is to pick with me. She has told me that she never really bonded with me and that I was a cold baby! I believe she really is mentally ill. I also believe all of my 'wonderful' siblings (she has picked them apart too, to me before, but now it's all directed at me) are hanging in there hoping there will be money at the end. Personally, it's not worth the price of admission and she will most likely outlive me. She is 78 and I am 58. I can't live this way till I die or she does anyway.
She is getting older and my dad has previously admitted she is verbally abusive of him too. I have heard it and it has made their visits quite uncomfortable for me and my husband, who is a kind person and usually a peacemaker. He too is finally DONE. Her call back was no apology; she did not say she was sorry for anything she has said or done to me, which is what he was upset about. She has always apparently liked him and I think she knew now he caught her in the act (I guess she's thought I never showed him the previous things she mailed me. We have just been throwing them away).
I know she will be cared for by my sibs, but if she had no one else I would make sure she was safe and warm. And I would keep my exposure to her at a bare minimum. She didn't turn mean just yesterday and you reap what you sow. Life is too short to serve yourself and your peace in life up to a person who would eat you alive if you let her.

thank you all for your wise words, to answer some of the questions, i will start with yes, her husband denies her needed medical attention, since she is on coumadin , it is required to attend coumidin clinic monthly, we are lucky to get him to take her twice a year, our recent trip to our doctor, to get her a full work up, indicated that had a compression fractured at L 2 which has already health..old unattended injury and also suffered a mild stroke a long time ago, which was rumored that her husband left her lying on the bathroom floor for 2 days and nights to die... this comes from 2 of my brothers by her word. although she has cried wolf all her life..i cannot believe anything. we live 3 hrs away and the doctor is not there on sat or sunday. her doctor and staff does not approved of her husband's attitude. we are sure of that, my mother will never tell the truth about any information regarding our dysfunctional family, who has not talk to each other in decades, she has spent her life lying, cheating and pinning us against one another for as long as i can remember, i am afraid of much much worse things she has done, example.. she will not tell me why on one of my brothers birth certificates, mentions 1 child deceased, she recently suggested that my now married and pregnant daughter should be taken from her home in another state and forced back to our home and shoved into the bathtub and with the use of a rubber hose and saltwater..well i need not say more, the reason for this action was justified by her by disapproval of the husband/father.. wondering if that was attempted on one of us boys or maybe one or two that did not make it, ie birth cert. recently she called 911 on her husband to complain about his daughter calling her a wh.re, forty years ago, as long as i can remember, there were lots of uncles in my young life, who would show up after my father left for work (nightshift) she would cook for them and recently my third oldest brother has been telling me what he saw and sexual abuse he and my 2nd oldest brother survived from mother and oldest brother... the more i learn, the more i want nothing to do with her,, she does not deserve any love from us, and we have sacrificed so much, no other brothers are willing to help and we don't blame them....thank you all

Probably nothing.
I have a mother who is quite vindictive. Now that she become bedridden for a while, she is hell bent on making my father pay her back for the illnesses she saw him through over the years because “He owes her.” She told me throughout my life that I was unwanted and that she wished she would not have had me. Happily, I am the only child who gets to tend to her and my miserable father. The stress is killing me. I told her that if she doesn’t change the way she treats people that I will not survive her. Her response, “That would be OK.” I told her she was sending me for a full mental breakdown (she already did Dad), and she laughed. All her life she has lied and been deceitful, and now it’s all catching up to her. She doesn’t care. It’s all about her. I have told my husband that if this does indeed rob me of my life or sanity to please sell our home and get as far away from the vitriol and poison as possible.

Yes, walk away now!! while you can. She has a husband who can deal with her. I took my Mother (97 now) 3 years ago so she wouldn't have to go to a nursing home. Big mistake. She started making up whopping lies about me at family gatherings. I heard her and stopped her in her tracks on the spot. Now the family knows they can't believe her. She can be so hateful one minute and sweet the next. I no longer think of her as my mother. She is just some old lady living in my house that I put up with. Yes I could put her in a nursing home but she can't hear or defend herself. Has trouble eating certain things. I had her in the only one in our area for 2 weeks after she broke a leg. Some of the workers started to abuse her so I brought her home early. They were sneaky about it so it was my word against theirs.
Let your Mom know you love her but let her husband deal with her. The marriage vows say "for better or worse". If things have gotten worse it is his responsiblity, not yours.

I finnally had to walk away from my mother her meaness & pot stirring just became more than I could handle she has alianented everyone of the family members an burnt so many bridges that I don't think that some are forgiveable we've tried to get her help but she refuses. an I feel she has something wrong but my father puts up with her abuse even after she divorced him and he won't help us get her help so I decided I couldn't put up with the abuse anymore so I walked away an that was 2yrs ago its sad

brokeneck: You didn't say whether or not your mom has dementia or alzheimer's. If she is cognitively impaired, some of the anger and lying may be coming from that. My mom has Alzheimer's, but is still relatively functional. She too became verbally abusive after my dad died (12 yrs ago) and lies all the time too. She tells people what she thinks they want to hear, instead of the truth, or she accusing people of things that are untrue. At this point we're not sure if in her mind she thinks she is telling the truth, or if she's just being hateful. I agree with the others that have said to just walk away. In the beginning I let her behavior get to me and it was eating me up. It had a terrible affect on my own health, my marriage, etc. Her doctor told me to just "walk away", or just agree with her, since there is no reasoning with her. By all means, go to the doctor with her. Someone needs to make sure he knows what's really going on so he can treat her, and advise you as well. Is she on any meds that would help her moods, the agitation, etc.? Try not to take her abuse personally. I know how hard that is, but you have to take care of yourself first. As for her husband, it sounds like he needs some help whether he agrees to see a doctor or not. Yes, he can be reported for elder abuse if you feel he's not making choices that are in her best interest. There social services you can do this, and they can give you information on how to proceed. Good luck, and hang in there. This group is great for venting, and the support is sometimes a life saver.

When you say her husband was denying her medical care, do you mean she wanted to see a doctor and he wouldn't allow her or do you mean that they just choose not to go see doctors. It's a critical difference because choosing not to see a doctor is a perfectly reasonable decision for an old person with declining health. If that's the case, spare yourself and your marriage the wrath of your mother and step out of it. As long as she is not being controlled by her husband against her own wishes, she has a right to live and die as she pleases. Simply not availing yourself of medical care isn't abusive.

Walk away. Spare yourself the agony. She has a husband, let him deal with it. I know it sounds cold, but believe me no need to be a whipping post.

Amen, shopwhiz. If people choose misery over happiness, we don't have to join in that company.

In our circumstance, I find the whole thing is exhausting in every way. I never thought I would come to the place where I had to mentally & physically put the person as far away from my thoughts as possible every single day. Sometimes more than once or twice a day. It makes you feel like a terrible person. We are in our 60's and she (mother) could have another 10 years of life. She is 91. Enough is enough.
Try to start taking your life back, one day or one moment at a time. Don't lose your mental health because of her poor mental health.

Sending you a hug also! I'm right there with you regarding "stories" or confabulations. Because folks tend to believe my loved one without knowing the facts, the neighbors and friends support them unconditionally and I'm the bad guy. My loved one then uses, "My friends say..." to beat me up. Of course, I'm not even sure if the friends actually say those things! There seems to be less and less solid ground in the relationship. I know all of this will change as the disease progresses. Doing the best we can is about all we can do at this point. Blessings.

first a hug you way. I know this is tough to deal with. I went through this for a couple of years with my mother, especially after my father passed away. I endured a lot of ugliness but I had promised my father I would care for her. After a couple of years, the negative comments (directed either to my husband or me - only people she has since my sister does not offer to help) became much less. She even thanks me once in a while now.