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In the last few month I have developed health issues which mean I am unable to continue to cope with my mother living in an annex attached to our property under the same arrangement that has been in place. Therefore after discussion with my brother and husband we have agreed that she needs to be in a NH. - we are in UK so this particular NH takes people from simply needing AL right through to high level nursing care.


Mother is 91, recently had a major op, and suffers from undiagnosed but fairly obvious early dementia and has a strongly narcissistic personality (life long). She had a major for a 91 year old Op at the beginning of August and we went on holiday in September. During these two months it was arranged that she would go to the NH firstly for convalescence and then for respite whilst we were away. So far so good. She recovered well physically and was able to spend a lot of time out and about with friends she had in the area, go into town, etc.


Due to my health issues she and my brother decided she would move to the NH permanently when we returned. So far so good. The next day she told my husband and I she was coming back to live with us. We told her we could not have her back under the same conditions as before and would she think about options for discussion on our return - not ideal we were out of the country but as she had been offered a room at the NH timing was sort of decided for us.


We are now the devils on earth, with her telling everyone we are throwing her out - this I expect as it fits the narcissism, she also tried to tell a friend who said she could stay one night that she was going for 18 days. She will not allow us to aid her move - she has brought in a daughter of a friend, who has sorted and thrown away whatever she thinks. Which is fine if mother was fully capable cognitively. The annex mother lives in is now an absolute tip, piles of papers, clothing, kitchen utensils everywhere, and this "friend" has now gone to Australia for four weeks leaving this mess and safety hazard, however we are not permitted to help clear up. Fortunately the date for mother's move to the NH is only a week away, so hopefully she will avoid any accidents until then. She plans to come back and forth with this "friend" when she returns to complete clearing out. Which she was told was never necessary before she started.


We believe the friend was dictating emails mother was sending us when we were away, and also took her to an unknown solicitor where the NH told us she changed her will. All this is background - probably unnecessary but I am rather wound up so apologies - to the fact that since the operation mother has deteriorated cognitively a lot as we were warned she might. Yesterday she ask my husband for some computer help. She has withdrawn £5000 from what in the UK are called premium bonds, a very safe investment, but doesn't know why or where the money went. She does not know whether she has paid the NH or if so which account she used, and whilst he was there she was unable to complete a simple change of address form, or follow a conversation. These are just some examples of her loss of ability. We are in communication with the NH and they have said they will monitor her behaviour now it has been pointed out to them, and with her Dr who say they will do further cognitive tests when she is settled in the NH. I am hoping some of you who have had this experience can give me some advice on how I can keep this friend who it appears is being a very disruptive influence and encouraging mother to split away from family by playing on the narcissism away. Being blunt until the dementia progresses to a point I can ask NH to bar her. Sorry this is so long, and suggestions (or questions) would be welcome. I did have POA but the type has been superceded and I suspect it has been thrown away anyway.

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Please have background check done on the person. If necessary, hire a private detective to get the dirt on them. If there's none, it's still good to know. Also, a judge wud prob give u custody if you wanted to go that route.
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Thank you for replying, and I am very glad to learn that you don’t have the dreadful situation that many people face. You are confident about money, and there isn’t a lot of it to tempt a scammer. Awful though it is, sometimes people really do have to cope with the need to get everyone involved in a legal fight, and you are well out of that.

As you seem to be on good terms with the elderly friend, it might still be a good idea to talk to him and say that this extra involvement is making things very difficult for you and thus for your mother. Ask if he might talk to his daughter. You can always mention ‘undue influence’ and legal issues very vaguely, even if you don’t intend to go down that path. (A lawyer mentioned it to you – true, me)

If you can, you could have a similar talk with his daughter yourself. She may not have the experience to know that nasty stories are common from elderly people. If she thinks that she is helping by getting involved in bill paying or whatever, you can explain that it is in fact making everything more difficult. Try to be nice (which is often hard when someone new waltzes in and acts as though they know everything). Tell her that 'company is good, but please don’t believe the complaints. Ask me for details if you are worried about anything. And please don’t get involved in finances with her – it just makes caring for her more complicated'. (whisper undue influence if appropriate).

Good luck in damping this down, Margaret
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TaylorUK Oct 2019
Many thanks Margaret. I am perfectly happy to talk to this woman directly without concerning her father at his age. She is an ex health worker in the community although I am not sure what she did or the age group she worked with. I believe she did assessments of people's needs for the NHS but mother cannot tell me exactly what she did - I don't get the impression this is forgetful, but that she has never been told in an understandable manner but I may be wrong, its so hard to tell which are lies, which are dementia and what is the truth. I cannot think of a reason to take mother back to the solicitor to do a second will until she has seen her Dr for a cognitive assessment. Would there be some reason that the lawyer needed her to go back to sign?
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I think you may need to see a solicitor about this, particularly as your mother may have changed her will in favour of the ‘outsider’. It sounds like an ‘undue influence’ situation. The will may be able to be cancelled if it was signed at a time when your mother lacked legal competence. Before you get legal advice, write yourselves a list of everything you can remember that suggests that your mother lacked the competence to know exactly what she was doing at all the relevant times. The sooner you get onto it the better, as delay could mean that there are many other transactions that will need to be challenged (eg bank withdrawals). Just hoping that everything will turn out OK is not smart. One strategy your solicitor might suggest would be for mother to sign yet another will. This leaves the outsider with the problem of proving lack of competence at two points in time – proving that mother was competent to sign the will to outsider, but lost competence before signing the second will – when? why? what’s the evidence?

You say that the outsider is the ‘daughter of a friend’. Do you know the ‘friend’ yourself? Is the ‘friend’ likely to be upset enough to intervene if her daughter is likely to end up in court over this? Many many people know about elderly people making nasty and untrue allegations about their nearest and dearest, and you can have some hope that the comments about you will not be believed. A threatened legal case around undue influence by this ‘outsider’ is much more likely to stick. Best wishes in a difficult situation.
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TaylorUK Oct 2019
Margaret - thank you for your response much appreciated. A couple of easy points, yes I do know friend, he is an gentleman about three years older than mother is close to mid 90s. He is healthwise in a very similar state to mother.
Re the court issue, I am sure he would be very upset if it were to end up as a court case but at his (and mother's) age I would be loath to have to do anything that would involve this type of action and fall out from it.
I very much doubt that mother is sufficiently non-capable to have changed her will in favour of the friend's daughter, I think it far more likely she will have changed it from my brother and I to the grandchildren -I do not have an issue with that, I doubt there will be much left after paying NH fees and if she leaves it to grandchildren that is reasonable. I don't know what she has changed it to as I haven't seen it, the worst thing she is likely to have done is appoint a solicitor as executor incurring those costs.
I do have records covering the last four months (apart from when we were away) of examples of lack of capability - I have been keeping these so I have them for when Dr does tests, as obviously we see far more than can be seen in half an hour or whatever.
I accept the lies and story telling as part of the dementia and am not worried by people believing her, my sole problem is keeping this friend's daughter away whilst mother is not capable but not "lost in dementia world".
Thank you for your best wishes.
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