Mom has severe short-term memory problems and other mental issues (possible Alzheimer's), heart problems and is a high fall risk. She needs to have 24/7 care.
Unfortunately, she gifted the money received from sale of the old family home. Medicaid won't kick in until we pay a nursing home out of our own pockets up to the amount of the gifts OR wait 5 years to re-apply for Medicaid, so the gifts are not included in the look-back period.
We do not have the money to pay for 12 months of nursing home care to cover the amounts of those gifts. None of us are healthy enough to be her caregiver for the next 5 years. My husband is disabled and I plan to continue to be his caregiver until his health declines to the point he cannot transfer himself or my own poor health makes it impossible to be his caregiver. My brother's health has become poor in last few years as well.
If it’s a 12 mo. Transfer penalty period, it’s somewhere in the $96,000 - $180,000.00 gifted as NH average 8k-15k a mo.
So who got basically $100,000.00++??
Has the DPOA contacted the giftee regarding the situation?
That is “mom / Grannie cannot get the LTC she desperately needs due to the 100k large She gave you” conversation and certified mailings. And within theses clearly ask for $ back or property title transferred back to mom if within the family “sale”.
If not, why not?
Can & will mom or the DPOA take the nuclear option to file a police report for endangerment of a vulnerable adult with coercion, theft or fraud of $100k?
Mom will have to be determined to be incompetent or incapable of executive functioning if she won’t go along with filing police report. DPOA hires a criminal atty who along with an elder law atty can get this done. It will not be pretty.... but if this cockup happened when I was POA, I’d want to get in front of this yesterday and get something criminal going against the $$$ recipient to get her Medicaid eligible. That or your willing to private pay for 12 mos of care in the NH or decide what room mom will be moving into your home .... Your options are limited.
Why...... POA has a required fiduciary duty. $100large isn’t a little bit of $ overlooked. Its not Grannie bought an expensive $500 wedding gift. It’s a totally glaring lack of fiduciary oversight. Your not expected to know Medicaid rules but are expected to do whatever to rectify issues to her eligibility.
If mom/Grannie is currently in a NH, she has a bill that is growing by each day. NH will expect bill to be paid one way or another. If the admissions contract does not have the dpoa or other family member as a responsible signatory that NH can bill and turn over to collections and pay in full ASAP, then the usual path is that the NH - after sending out a 30 Day Notice - will turn to APS to get the elder made an emergency ward of the state. The request goes before a judge (usually probate court judge) and a temporary guardian is named from an existing & vetted list of guardians. The guardian can have elder placed into a NH as Medicaid Pending. But then guardian will need to do whatever to get elder eligible. If that means police report filed, it gets done. If it means moving elder to another NH with an open bed without any notification to family it can be done.
They can also do more - since they are court appointed- they have a great deal of power. They can ask for an APS inquiry to be opened. So APS can contact your employer, neighbors regarding you. If your military or have any sort of clearance needed for work or yourself are a mandated reporter, your job could be in jeopardy. Also can go thru years of banking and if there’s no documentation as to whether $ was gifting or payment for services, they can do years of amended or back taxes, filing 1099-Cs to whomever got $ from Grannie. The annual gifting with no reporting to IRS guideline, the guardian can decide not to follow but instead 1099 everybody. They would do an initial letter asking clarification on the background on the amounts per each year along with W9 & I9. You’ll have like 60 days to submit info or amended return gets filed with IRS. It’s amazing how the anticipation of a tax filing can spur folks to return $.
So I too have to ask.... what’s the backstory? Who got 6 figures?
No one was trying to take advantage of her. We said Thank You Mom for the amazing gifts not knowing what trouble it would cause later. Had I known, I would have explained and then politely declined the gifts or put the money in a CD.
As a side note: In mom's very large family they have all died quickly (no one has had dementia or lingering illness). We were all idiots for believing she would pass away in similar fashion when her time came :(
I have been researching refinancing/home equity loans to replace the $29,000 in gifts I accepted. We haven't had house that long but hopefully we can get that much. It will be very difficult for myself and husband to make all our payments, but hopefully we won't end up in bankruptcy.
Our portion was used up home repairs and handicap remodel. none of the cash left.
Where can I get the additional $34,000 for brother's portion? He has no job, no usable assets and is in poor health. He bought some old construction equipment and wants to start his own business but not sure when or if that will happen...
Thanks everyone, sorry I didn't explain properly in earlier post. Hope this makes more sense.
Bad part is your state pays low room and board reimbursement so 70k is 12 mos. and penalty is by # of days ineligible.
I’m unclear, are you DPoA, or is bro, or there isn’t one?
Any way to get back brothers recent 5k?
The $5,000 done this month in 2019. Please please try to get this done. It shows Medicaid that “omg as soon as we were aware the $$ gifts mom pressed / insisted upon us would be an issue for Medicaid, we immediately did what we could to rectify the situation.” Do whatever to get that 5k back & paid to mom’s checking account and then to NH ASAP. It’s shows a good faith gesture & acknowledgement of Medicaid rules once you became aware. Again “once we became aware” is your mantra. Plus keeps NH less hostile.
Its not fraud, mendacity or coercion. That is on your side to get this worked out hopefully with Medicaid. There’s a post from Nov on granddaughter who got dementia Grannie to gift her $300k home, that is going to be a true horror show medicaid saga. Yours will be stressful but imo manageable although imo you will need to hire a NAELA or CELA level of atty. to shepherd the process.
Ok so how exactly did you find out gifting = transfer penalty?
- like Medicaid application submitted & state has sent ineligible letter? So already in NH like 2 mos? Or 3? or more at this point in time?
or
is it that NH gave you/mom a list of documents needed to accompany mom’s LTC Medicaid application & the NH noticed the house sale document that it’s only 2 years ago and that she’s impoverished now so won’t take her as a Medicaid Pending resident? If it’s this, Has NH given you/mom a private pay bill? Or a 30 Day Notice?
or
is it you’ve realized this is an issue in reviewing the documents you are gathering together for her Medicaid application?
Prior to the NH where was mom......
Living in her home and went from her home directly to the NH?
or
living with family? Or AL? For how long?
or
was she hospitalized (MediCARE) and then discharged to rehab (MediCARE) at a NH that has a rehab unit? If it’s this route, is she still in rehab? If out of rehab, how many days did rehab pay for her? How many days since out of rehab?
- does this NH have other open beds?
- Mom gets exactly how much $ each month in monthly income?
- has Mom has consistently paid NH her monthly income less whatever tiny amount state has as the personal needs allowance?
- is tpersonal needs allowance held at the NH?
All the above part is important as you / atty are going to try to negotiate mom’s day rate.
Stay with me on this..... NH will have a private pay rate $$$; a MediCARE bed day rate $$; and daily room & board reimbursement rate Medicaid pays $. Medicaid National avg is abt $175. A 70k 12 mo penalty is abt $195 day rate. There will be an exact figure your state pays, you want to get NH to accept that rate. It will be significantly lower than private pay. The penalty is by # of days, so if you can get amount at Medicaid rate is will be hugely less. And the responsibility- if you cannot get it waived - is 50/50 you & brother.
He sounds judgement proof.... could that be his situation?
You & hubs sound like still have jobs and have income (other than SS) and own a home, is that accurate?
Did you personally sign to be financially responsible for mom?
Perchance did you & hubs spend $ to make mom’s property market ready, or pay property taxes or for caregivers? Got receipts?
perchance are you or bro disabled in any way?
Is hubs SSDI or SSI? Verified disability?
Atty probably can get some waived. It’s not mendacity, or fraud but lack of awareness. However the NH is going to want to continue getting her mo income and the $ that is the gap between that and what Medicaid would pay them. If you can get the to accept that at your 50% till atty works mom’s Medicaid appeal out, could you swing that?
Make a pot of coffee manana and go over the timeline and $.
I have heard of families turning their loved one over to the state for guardianship, then the state has gone after the people who got "gifts" because the state is responsible now for mom.
Everything is so complex. Even if mailers were sent out to us regarding future Medicaid needs, how many of us would even look at it. I know I wouldn't. Same holds true for newspaper articles. If it doesn't relate to current situations, we tend to not read it.
As for finding funds to help pay for Mom's nursing home care, hopefully other writers who have been down this path can shed some light on what can be done.
The nursing home WILL be paid - if they go the emergency guardian route, certain things WILL happen.