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As this journey with my mom unfolds I'm realizing so much about our dysfunctional family dynamic.


My BIL called me the other day. I was shocked as he doesn't normally call me. He started by telling me I helped him through a rough time several years back and he felt the need to reach out to me now. I really didn't want to talk but he prodded and I finally did open up to him about my struggles. My sister ended up marrying a high school friend of my brother so my BIL has known our family including my mother for a very long time. He's seen some things to say the least.


One of the things I told him was I resented not only doing everything myself but having to worry on my own about all of the logistics. Like why wasn't anyone else having important conversations with my mom about selling some assets (her cottage and car out of state) and saving for future care?


His response to me was that everyone (meaning my sister and brother) knew that her response would be negative. He said "It's always been like that, she's difficult to approach".... got me to thinking, he's so right. Everyone has always walked on eggshells around my mom.


We all knew her behavior was dysfunctional. Having an alcoholic parent isn't normal. Yet my mother was never confronted, it was tolerated and somehow normalized.


I feel this strange pressure to "normalize" her continued dysfunctional behavior (addiction, narcissism, etc) and now even the dementia. I can't begin to think of a way to even have a conversation with her about her future care needs. Don't all sane people know that dementia is a different animal and majority of people end up needing to go to a facility? Yet this can't even be addressed. Yet at the same time my tolerance for this at this stage of my life is VERY low.


This is heavy on my mind because on Jan 4th my mom will be having an appointment with her PC. This is the doctor that I talked to when she was away last month. We had a confidential talk and I told him I was concerned that all of her doctors weren't communicating enough and I wanted to know why she needed daily opiates. He agreed there didn't appear to be any reason and he was going to talk to the pain doctor. I told him I was concerned about her cognition and he said he was going to read her evaluation. He mentioned that he may recommend an addiction specialist.


Well I got a reminder call about her appointment yesterday, and the person said she was to be seen for "mildly elevated labs (I think he will be addressing the drinking), cognitive impairment, and her pain complaints".


I'm nervous because I think there is a strong chance she will have a very negative reaction. At the same time I can't keep normalizing this stuff. The charade of independence with lack of cooperation is more and more intolerable.


Can anyone relate?

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Though in a very different set of circumstances I can relate. I can’t tell you how the cycle is broken as that hasn’t yet happened for us. For me personally, I’ve backed way off in my involvement in the circus. My relative hasn’t ever been “right” in mental health and the family for as long as I can remember has tiptoed around it, downplayed the behaviors, made excuses, and tolerated the poor treatment regularly doled out. We’re all supposed to act like it’s okay, while we all quietly get together in small groups and vent about it. The relative is often cruel, rude, overbearing, expects to be catered to in every way, and the family jumps to it. After doing some praying, some growing, and learning about boundaries, I don’t participate in the mess anymore. I’m not rude, but I don’t cater to the madness and I limit my contact. I can’t tell you how much it’s helped my attitude and perspective. It’s helped so much to finally know that I’m the only one I can change
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ExhaustedPiper Dec 2019
Yes what you described sounds very familiar.

Getting my mother’s doctors more involved is one way I’m backing off. A doctor is not going to normalize things she expects everyone else to normalize. I want them to start the conversation so she can’t deny the existence of the problems.

I still have a road ahead of me here but my ultimate goal is to leave this circus.
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EP, have you ever been to Al-Anon? I'm told that they are very good at helping family members of addicted folks address "the elephant in the room".

You seem to worry ALOT about how your mother will react to your "spilling the beans".

I see this a lot in dysfunctional families; one of the symptoms, if you will, of dysfunctionality is that there is a family secret that MUST be kept from the outside world at all costs. Because if everyone knows, then.....

Then what, we ask? What will happen? Will the world end? No. Will the addict blow up and become angry, YES.

And then?

When you realize that the addict blowing up and getting angry is the ADDICT's problem and not yours, it kind of changes the landscape, doesn't it?

As a child, you HAD to keep your mother calm; without her, you might not have a home, food, blankets, a MOTHER.

You are a self-sufficient adult now. Frankly, you don't NEED your mother, except that she still has this hold on you. She is controlling your through fear, obligation, guilt and the need to keep her secret, her shame, out of the public eye.

Except, that all her friends know, don't they? You aren't hiding anything.

It sounds, frankly, like your brother and sister have walked away. You chose to try to fix mom's problems.

But mom doesn't want your help; she wants you to abet and enable her addiction.

You have a choice, don't you?
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ExhaustedPiper Dec 2019
Barb, are you a therapist? I'm being serious because you are very good at dissecting these issues and many issues I see on the board. If your not maybe you should be, because imo you are very insightful. I have been able to do a lot of helpful and needed reflection from your posts. Even more than I got from my in person therapist, so thank you very much!

Something did significantly shift in me with the realization of the opiate addiction. Not in a mean judgmental way because I feel sorry for addicts in general, they are usually medicating emotional pain, and I suspect that is the case with my mom too. But the lies and sneaking just triggered me and I thought No, I'm not doing this again. IF her treating doctors agree that she should be on them, then fine. But the lies and scamming must stop. Drinking with opiates must stop. I'm not playing those games anymore. In fact I said that to her PC- "She needs compassionate pain control but I would like all her doctors involved so the best decisions are made", that is when he said that he would (may) suggest an addictions specialist. Interesting this was also a recommendation that came after her neuro-psych eval, but no doctor followed up with my mom concerning those recommendations. That seems to be changing now with her PC getting more involved, so I'm trying to be hopeful about it.

Detaching emotionally continues to be a process for me, and I know I vent on her A LOT, but slowly I think I'm making some progress. Just having that conversation with her PC was a significant step for me, but I did it.

I've also been more assertive both mentally and in my conversations (like with BIL the other day) that I have an endpoint here. That placement is in our future. I'm thinking about the practical matters already like finances. I've been researching facilities in my area (haven't visited any yet) and getting used to the idea, because for a long time I just had this NO END IN SIGHT despair that's really hard to take.

To answer a couple of your questions, no I haven't been to an Al-Anon meeting yet, but I've been doing a lot of online reading and joined an online group. I'm learning some things. And yes, her friends know she is an alcoholic. The majority (if not all) of her friends through life have been heavy drinkers and fellow alcoholics. That is how she likes to have fun. She isn't interested in bingo at the senior center.

Thanks again for being a great listener and spot on with your advice.
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I can relate for sure but with 3 different sets of circumstances. And while the cycles haven’t been broken yet, it seems to me that we break them by being stronger than those who have kept the cycle going and by establishing boundaries.

My dad doesn’t have dementia but due to a war injury, a bad car accident and several health crisis, he has noticeable cognitive decline. It’s been an issue for years. He has absolutely no business driving. He has totaled 3 cars in 10 years BECAUSE HE SHOULDNT BE DRIVING. He totaled my moms car while driving on a revoked license (was temporarily revoked because he was having seizures). He fell asleep while driving it in the middle of the day (he has narcolepsy IMHO, don’t know if he has ever been diagnosed though) and rolled the car and totaled it. This summer he totalled his own classic car that was easily worth $60-$70k. My mother will not tell him to stop driving, she will not take away the keys. Why? Because it’s easier to enable him. He’s buying guns left and right at age 71. He has 1 arm and again cognitive decline. Does my mom try to put a stop to it? HELL NO. He doesn’t need one gun let alone 15-20. I’ve always walked on egg shells around him because he’s got a very short temper and no patience. So I get it. My mom has to live with him and if she does anything that he perceives as her trying to control him, he loses his temper and all hell breaks out. But bottom line, she’s enabled him for years and the cycle continues. Me? I won’t put up with it. They came to visit 2 years ago and they took the kids to lunch and to toys r us. I went to put my sons car seat in their backseat & went to move a jacket and found a GUN! On the seat!! Aside from how flipppibg dangerous that is, it is very illegal here! My dad doesn’t live in thisbstate and therefore isn’t legally allowed to carry a gun here PERIOD. He does not have a permit. It is illegal to drive with a gun out in the open in a car like that. My dad however thinks he needs it for protection when he comes here. Why? I can’t tell you. My husband is a cop. We are safe here. My 71 year old dad with 1 arm and a gun is who we need protection from!!! Moving on.....my dad has lost his debit card 4 times this year! 4 times! Because it doesn’t register with him that he needs to put the damn card in his wallet as soon as he’s done paying & put his wallet in his pocket and THEN take his receipt and the bag. No, he puts his card in the machine, pays and then puts his card down next to the machine, takes his receipt and puts it in his wallet, puts his wallet in his pocket, grabs the bags and leaves! 2 times he left it at the liquor store across the road and the workers there all know my parents & brother so they held the card for him. But the last time he did it, he was at Lowe’s and when he went back to the store, his card was gone. And it was a nightmare trying to contact B of A to get the card cancelled. And what does my mom do? She has them send him a new card. All while losing her chit and calling him every name in the book because he’s lost his card again and she’s having a hell of a time getting the card cancelled! She can start giving him cash, she can get him his own account and transfer over the exact amount of money he needs ebery time he goes to the store. But she won’t do it. I won’t enable him. I don’t allow him to drive our cars. I don’t let my kids go in the car with him. I don’t put up with anything!

there is also my BIL and his financial irresponsibility. My SIL is keeping the cycle going by helping him out and footing the bill when he says he has no money. My husband and I simply say no. We never offer to help. He wastes his money left and right. He’s in his 40s and has a kid and yet he’s renting a bedroom in a strangers house. And just told my husband he’s spending thousands having an engine rebuilt. Doesn’t have a car for the engine either LOL. But you see what I mean? His priorities are messed up and always have been.
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ExhaustedPiper Dec 2019
Wow WorriedinCali, your dad sounds like a handful! Hate to say this, but you already know it, your mom's enabling is what is allowing these things to continue. That's not good, but at the same time at least he has a spouse who is basically his live in caretaker. Can you imagine taking him on if she wasn't around? In fact how is her health? I'm glad you are not an enabler. I'm slowly getting better. Slowly.

The driving thing is an issue for me too. I put my story on here already about how my mom got around her medical revocation in the state of FL by getting an out of state license. I did everything I could to stop it, including talking to cops in both states. My local cop here who was very nice said to me "I'm sorry but your mom beat the system". I was shocked. Apparently a medical revocation is not seen as a criminal matter, so she wouldn't get in trouble if she got pulled over since she has a "valid" PA license. It's so messed up. BUT if she were to be involved in an accident and there was an investigation she would be so screwed legally and wouldn't have a leg to stand on in any kind of lawsuit, nor would her insurance pay, because ultimately, it would be found out in a civil court that she committed fraud to get the PA license.

That gun stuff with your dad is scary. My FIL is a bit of a gun nut and so is my BIL on my husband's side. They own like 20 guns too. I've always thought what's the point? Maybe your dad's military training drives him? I'm sorry about his injury. I hope he has good VA benefits, he definitely earned it!

Hey on that driving thing with your dad, have you ever reported him anonymously to the DMV in his state? I think just about every state allows for that. That would at least prompt a re-test and/or evaluation.

My brother is kind of like your BIL. He's in his 50's and has been a life long financial mess due to his own poor choices over and over. I had to chuckle at the engine story of your BIL. I definitely do not enable my brother, so maybe I'm not such a lost cause on this enabling thing, lol.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.
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I'm seconding the recommendation for finding an Al-Anon group. They are life-changing.

Also, look for a book about Adult Children of Alcoholics, (author: Woitiz . . . might not have spelled it right ;) . There was a little questionnaire in the first chapter . . . . literally made me drop my jaw several times and have that lightbulb moment of awareness. Growing up in that environment affects everything moving forward. But it is possible to heal and make changes that are healthy for you! {{{hugs}}} to you. It's not easy, that's for sure.

Hoping the doctor's appt. goes well and you are able to address your real concerns, and get some help.
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ExhaustedPiper Dec 2019
Thank you Calico, I'll check out the book.

I already have found the online groups helpful. It seems the theme of "you can't control another person, you can only control how you react" applies in surviving a lot of issues, even dementia.

The whole "I must fix it" mentality that I inherited from childhood has been a problem for me at times in life. I think it helped me in my career, but in my personal life, not so much. And with my mother, it's been nothing but a nightmare.

I never thought I'd still have so much mental work and shifting to do in my later 50's but here I am. Looking back over the last two years though I think I've made ground. To be honest I credit this forum more than anything. Everything from the many people sharing similar and personal stories to the wise advice given her by caring people.

Thanks.
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"I can't begin to think of a way to even have a conversation with her about her future care needs. Don't all sane people know that dementia is a different animal and majority of people end up needing to go to a facility? Yet this can't even be addressed. Yet at the same time my tolerance for this at this stage of my life is VERY low."

Yes, sane people know that, but your mother is NOT a normal sane person. Mine wasn't either.

Her PC sounds aware of her issues which is a plus, Maybe ask him to have the talk with your mum about her future care needs. It often is accepted better from non family. I found everything got more manageable when professionals were involved.

I was not able to talk any sense with my mother or my sister. Although I was POA financial and medical and doing a good job, I was seen by them as a trouble maker as I would not enable.

Likely she will have a strong negative reaction. What's new? Mother used her anger to manipulate and gain control of a situation. Alanon could be very helpful, and/or therapy, and/or reading boundaries by Cloud and Townsend and so on. Help yourself first.
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ExhaustedPiper Dec 2019
Yes, anger is a tool they use, and that's what I'm learning to detach from now.

Thanks for letting me know things got more manageable for you when professionals got involved. That's my goal too. It makes sense. I had a career in health care. I talked to many families and patients and honestly you would think it was a different person in my body compared to how I am around my mother. An emotionally neutral professional can say the hard things that need to be said. They still have compassion but no strings are being pulled. No manipulation is going on. And when people did try to manipulate it could be seen a mile away. A professional can keep their cool even in the face of bad behavior, an adult child of a narcissistic parent with a lifetime of grooming, not so easy.

Ironic in a way, the fact that I am a nurse and an early retired one at that! People have actually made the comment to me that my mom is so lucky her daughter is a nurse and retired!

Give me the barf bag! I will NEVER be her personal private duty nurse, EVER.
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At least part of the "dysfunctional cycle" is likely your own believing you can "fixit". You can't.
Certainly with dementia on the plate you won't be dealing with any of these issues, other than your OWN issues of how best to protect yourself, your immediate family ongoing. There is no dealing with a demented mind, nor with a narcissistic or psychotic mind. Nor an addicted mind.
As long as you are this intertwined with your mother's life, it is your life you have given over to her. If there is an addiction problem this is yet another issue you will be utterly helpless against other than joining an al-anon group as soon as possible.
I missed it if you said that your Mother is living with you. If she is, I suggest that she not live with you, but live now in assisted living. Inform her with gentleness that this will not work for you and your family. You will be met with hysteria; that's a given. You will have to "grey rock" through it often.
If she does not live with you you are in control of limiting some of your visitation, and rebuilding your own life before it is taken over utterly and completely. Get yourself some help to deal with all this. Wishing you so much good luck.
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ExhaustedPiper Dec 2019
Thank you Alva.

I moved her next door to me in my condo building in the Fall of 2018. So she does have her own place, with easy access to me. Prior to her move I did not know she had dementia. That was diagnosed last Spring. I would not have made the move I did had I known she had dementia, but too late for that now.

Everything you described is why I've taken steps to let the professionals deal with the issues, including addiction. I know placement is in my future and I want them on board now and the whole way through. I got this ball rolling because I know things will be documented.

The first time her PC will be addressing these issues with her will be Jan 4th. He made a special appointment at the end of the day to do this. It's late afternoon and will get dark so she will have to let me drive her. I don't think I'm going to suggest going in with her unless she asks, which is very doubtful.

That's okay though, I think the doc can handle this one on his own.
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EP; thanks for the lovely compliments. Therapists generally don't give advice; I do, based on my own experiences and observations of others.

Which brings me to this; you have a long time to think about that January 4th appointment, but the one thing I would NOT do is drive a car with my very angry, demented, addicted mother after that doctor's appointment.

My mom, who was not in any way a particularly disturbed person tried to wrest the steering wheel from my husband as we drove her on a 6 lane highway from rehab to her new assisted living place. I have no idea what was going on in her head, but from the moment we got her in the car and turned on "calming music" (Pachelbel Canon), she started crying hysterically. She had been diagnosed with vascular dementia while in rehab, but she mostly just seem to misinterpret stuff and had some interesting delusions about dead bodies being carted about and the nurses having sex in her bathroom.

But anyway, she yanked the steering wheel and fortunately hubby was driving or I wouldn't be here. We NEVER drove her in a private car after that.

I want you to think carefully about what purpose your presence in that doctor's office will serve that afternoon; I frankly see NO good coming of it.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Wow! What an experience. My friend’s mom chased her around the house trying to stab her with her sewing scissors. She placed her mom in a facility right after that incident.

It is amazing what people survive, isn’t it? Your husband is an amazing driver! Glad all of you weren’t harmed. Angels looking out for you!
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Piper,

Yeah, I can relate. It’s really weird too. My mom sort of accepted my brother’s drug habit as ‘the norm.’ She didn’t approve but allowed or as they say, she enabled some things. Consistency is key in changing situations. If you mess up, start over! Keep going until you get it right.

My dad wanted to be consistent. Mom fought him every step of the way. She undermined him and undid his actions. It was frustrating for my dad. Yet, he loved mom. I wish they could have had a united front. That’s what the family needed.

I do remember my brother going to juvenile homes but he would run away. So my parents did try. One judge ordered him to a home that was farther away. He had no friends nearby and he had to stay in that home. My brother was a drug addict but he was cunning. He could figure out how to escape!

If I had done any of his stuff they would have disowned me. The way I look at it now is it was a tough learning experience for me. I used to be bitter about how strict they were with me and was furious at how all of my brothers got away with so much sh!t. At the time though, I thought nothing was fair. Well, life isn’t always fair. I learned that lesson very early in life.

Now I see how they actually did me a favor because I learned to be independent. Am I still angry? Nah, not worth holding onto the anger anymore. It’s faded into disappointment, even somewhat indifferent to it all now.

Piper, you are the independent one. You are the one who has escaped the madness. You didn’t fall into the trap of addiction. Nor did I. By the grace of God, I didn’t follow my brother’s footsteps. I’m blessed. So are you. You are nothing like your mom.

Take your experience and use it as a learning tool. You know how you feel. You know what needs to be done. Do what you feel is best. Does that make sense to you? I hope I expressed that clearly. You know why it hurts so much, don’t you? We are caring people. How do you think we ended up as caregivers?

Caregivers get stuck. I know I did while caring for my addict brother with hepatitisC. It’s possible to get unstuck. With the help of a loving nurse, I did. If I had listened to mom who begged me to continue helping him I would have ended in a mental hospital because I would have cracked up! Look into an Al-Anon group. They are very helpful. I promise.

Best wishes to you. Hugs!
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Piper,

Wanted to add that while we were growing up there wasn’t much support. Addiction wasn’t spoken about as much and it was shameful for the addict and families. Everything was very secretive then so we had no frame of reference. So don’t feel badly about the confusion of what we felt as a kid or even later in our life. It’s a process, a journey to healing for anyone in this situation.

Both the addict and their family suffered in silence. We lived in a hush hush world where we were taught to smile in public and present ourselves as a ‘happy’ and ‘acceptable’ family.

Thank God, we now live in a society that is willing to talk about issues like addiction. There isn’t any shame in going for support these days.

So I fully encourage you to get that support for you and your mom. I hope she will know it comes from a place of love and accepts.

Unfortunately, my brother did not accept my offer to help him get into Bridge House here in New Orleans which has a good success rate with addicts. It’s not a quick program which is what I like about Bridge House. It’s an intensive in-house rehab and they learn how to integrate back into society while in the recovery process.

The addicts are allowed to work in the Bridge House thrift shop and other jobs that are available. I couldn’t make him participate in the program so I had to accept his refusal.

All you can do is try. There is support out there. You aren’t alone. There are many resources now for families of drug and alcohol users.
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ExhaustedPiper Dec 2019
Thank you so much for all of that.

I have read about your brother in various posts and I must say you survived a really heartbreaking situation. I know you tried so hard with him and especially as a sibling you never think they are going to die young, so that is double the heartache and emotional trauma. I'm really sorry you had to endure that, and pretty much on your own.

I'm sure your brother knew inside himself that you tried everything and you did it out of love. He couldn't beat it. He is at peace now.

I hope my mom will be able to get a handle on things. That remains to be seen, but I definitely want professionals to handle it. The one thing that gives me a little hope is I think if my mom can get off the opiates it will help her cognition. If she is able to experience that and recognize it I think she could be motivated to help herself.
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One of the resources is the Lord, Jesus Christ. My long term alcoholic/druggie BIL has finally been sentenced and is in jail for almost a year.... he is reading the Bible! Sometimes we go allll the way down, then we see the light, and are saved and delivered. Those who are willing, please pray for him - I actually know of people who were instantly delivered of drugs and/or alcohol when they met Jesus; no one is hopeless, including your mom, Piper!
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Mally,

This is true. Many people only look at an addict as wanting to getting high. What they really want is relief from their misery. They are searching and therefore self medicating the only way they know how.

I will pray for him as I prayed for my brother and all addicts. Thanks for your insight.

In spite of the hell I faced with my brother I have enormous compassion for addicts.

My brother read the Bible in prison too.
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The simple answer is: break the cycle by not becoming an alcoholic/addict or addicted to controlling another's behavior (the Al Anon part). The difficult answer I learned from Al Anon: "Not to manipulate situations so others will eat, go to bed, get up, pay bills, not drink/use/act out. Not to cover up for anyone's mistakes or misdeeds. Not to create a crisis. Not to prevent a crisis if it is in the natural course of events."

My mother's self made crises finally confirmed to everyone including the social worker ...that she needed to be in an assisted Living/Memory Care facility. If you don't have the resources, Medicaid will step in for a shared apartment. It was the absolute best thing I did for her and me. Because from my experience things only get worse, never better.
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OnlydaughterTN Dec 2019
Yes. Let nature take its course!
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Alcoholism is a 2 fold disease: an allergy of the body and obsession of the mind. AA for her and Al-Anon for family & friends of the alcoholic works for most people who want help. AA.com.
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I can relate to this type of charade, but it was my SIL's drug addiction that was constantly covered up, the rest of the extended family was not to know., (they could tell something was very off). When she overdosed and died in MIL's home, you would think that it could no longer be covered up. No, MIL insists SIL died of a lung disease. If I tried to say anything or intervene, the result was in laws saying I just hated SIL. The denial is exasperating. I wish you all the best. Some people do recover.
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Sorry you’re going through this. I’m 11 years into my mother’s diagnosis of vascular dementia. My siblings and I are on the same page, but we are at odds with my uncle, who is in denial. As we speak, my mother has been committed to the senior behavior ward at the local hospital for aggression towards staff and other residents in her memory unit. Which solves the problem for a week or two.

I wouldn’t waste a whole lot of time worrying about the past. Not much to be done there. Instead you need to prepare for a difficult future. Because our mother was so difficult (borderline personality disorder) we couldn’t make any progress talking with her. She refused to take any proactive measures that could have made her life better. The only way we were able to force changes, was through doctor/hospital.

I don’t know your whole driving saga, but in PA my mom’s PC ordered a senior driving test, where they tested her cognitive state and reaction time before they would even take her out on the road. It was the only way we were able to get her license taken away, despite multiple accidents. I’m surprised she didn’t have to surrender her license when prescribed long term opiates.

You need to get PoA squared away. Every time my mom needed a step up in care, she refused it. The only way we were able to get her into a facility was through the hospital. The magic words are its not safe for her live at home. It wasn’t but it took us a while to figure out that that’s what they needed to hear. (Our mother was not a candidate for in home care, because we knew she would just fire anyone we hired to come in. She consistently refused care the hospital would send round). Also, it’s important that you don’t step up and volunteer to take it on temporarily, as that lets the hospital and off the hook. (My mom would try to jump out of the car and we didn’t even feel safe driving her). If you hold your ground that you can’t help, they will have to find a safe placement for her.

For a long time I went through an ethical dilemma of trying to figure out how to be a decent human being to my abusive mother as she aged and needed help without ruining the lives of me and my family. The answer for me was ultimately you can’t help people who won’t be helped, and the best course of action was to step back and let the state, which has much more power to enforce, be the bad guy. I think you are right to be wary that people assume you will be nursemaid.

Good luck.
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Upstream Dec 2019
Holy sh*t DecentHB, your story could have been written by me! My mom is currently in a senior behavioral health center, this is her fourth or fifth stay there. Finally, finally, finally, it has been concluded she is no longer safe living at home. There have been many rounds of home-care ordered over the past five years, but she has run them all off (including nurses who were there to help my dad, which was tragic). My mother was horribly verbally abusive to my dad, and now he is dead. I am hoping the madness stops before my life is completely ruined. I am truly scared for my future.
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Hey Piper! After nearly a decade of dancing around my parents' elderly alcoholism (both of them together), dad died in a memory care home a month ago and mom has been in a mental health hospital for almost three weeks now. She's only 77 but is so beaten up from falls and has poor balance from drinking and Benzos, they've now got her confined to a wheelchair. This may be permanent. She will be transported to an assisted living facility in a few days but I am concerned her "charade of independence" will continue and she will demand to go back to her home. She told me yesterday she plans to keep her car and continue driving.

The whole situation has left me concerned for my own future. It's time for me to focus on my life. If I lose my career, husband or health over this mess, it will be tragic for me, adding to the tragedy that has been my parents' "retirement" years (spent drinking, miserable).

How the F can our parents do this to us? I am so heartbroken that my family became yet another sad statistic. This morning I listed to "Firework" by Katie Perry, the words so much describe the way I feel right now, and I hope it's true that "After a Hurricane, comes a Rainbow"!
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ExhaustedPiper Dec 2019
Upstream, I've been following your journey and you have been through so much. Take a deep breath, and then another. She's NOT going back home. Ever. The time has come and she is being placed in care where she belongs.

She has gotten her way for so long that you are conditioned to think it will always be that way (I've been there too), but not this time, your mom is NOT going back to that house. I mean she can barely walk, and her mental status at this point is WELL documented. Just make sure you assert from here on out and at all times that you will NOT be doing ANY care-taking if anyone has the nerve to suggest it. I really doubt that will happen though.

I had to LOL that your mom still wants her car and thinks she's going to drive. That sounds so much like something my mom would say. Let her rant. When she is in the ALF sell the car and the house. Sell everything. You don't even have to tell your mother.

I imagine you are still shell shocked from all that has happened in the last several weeks, so I'm not surprised you are still overwhelmed and feeling afraid for your future. But try not to be. When the dust settles you will see that you are getting your life back. That's why when I first read the news that your mom was getting placed I was sooo happy for you! You deserve this so much. You have gone above and beyond for far too long.

Huge hug to you Upstream, it's going to be okay.
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I can relate. Your last sentence about the charade of her independence being intolerable for you, in itself, signals a breakthrough.

My siblings leave it to me to be the bad guy, and they see their involvement as telling me what I should or should not do or tolerate.

Enlisting the authority of the doctors seems to be the most merciful way to confront lack of cooperation.
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Jcsdee Dec 2019
Yes, a charade of Independence is exactly what they do! My dad was and alcoholic until he was about 75! He is 91 and lives with me. Our relationship while I grew up was tumultuous! I had better relationships and love from my uncle's(his 3 brothers) and my other uncle which were all role models to me! He still drives even though his doctor said he has to stop and wrote a letter to the DMV. He cannot do anything much but makes a mess all over the house. I think he does it on purpose and is such a meanie! I'm fed up!
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Adult Child of Alcoholic Parent. When I heard that label and read about the details of it, it helped me to start healing and setting boundaries. Wishing you strength as you face the challenges before you.
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When I watched a room of 6 professional healthcare workers get gaslighted and abused by my mother, I finally stopped trying to fix or normalize behavior. A therapist gave me a little mantra. "I did not cause this situation. I cannot change her. I can change my own response." I also chanted under my breath " I am not responsible for her unhappiness. I chose to help keep her as safe as is reasonable. "
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Upstream Dec 2019
Rosyday, I have been dealing with elderly alcoholic parents for years and I learned to tell myself: "I didn't cause my parents' problems, and I can't solve them". That has helped me a lot. I had to tell my mom several years ago that I REFUSED to be responsible for her happiness. After years of verbal abuse by her toward my dad (both typically drinking), I had to place him in memory care, and then she expected me to fill his shoes...
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Yes, alcoholic father and siblings, narcissistic mother and sister( sister is both) . Due to the combo everything was a “ family secret” so you learn to pretend which is really denial. If you can, please go to a therapist. It really helped me realize I’m nothing like they claim I am( mother and sister are verbal abusers) and none of what happened in my childhood was my fault, they chose their life course and I don’t have to stay in the course they put me in. Dysfunctionally raised kids can break out of that toxic relationship
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Texasgal Dec 2019
I hear you - I had an alcoholic father, and a narcissistic mother. Both really screwed me up in my adult life. My father has long passed but my mother moved in with me and has lived with me off/on for 20 years. Recently she is getting "extra" verbally abusive, snarky, never happy, never satisfied. She's 93 and I plan to have the come to Jesus talk with her. I'm tired of trying to make her happy - I realize now that I NEVER CAN OR WILL! She needs to go to AL or at least a senior apt. I think the only reason she wants to live with me is so she can keep tabs and make damn sure I don't have much of a life. Well I've been seeing friends when I can and I work full-time and I have interests and hobbies that I will not give up. I do a lot for her - she takes up a lot of my personal time but she will not take up all of it! it's time for her to go! I don't even feel like I love her anymore. I just tolerate her - that may sound awful but after year after painful year of trying to win her affections, and approval I just don't care anymore. I have plenty of self-love and know I'm an awesome, caring friend, person co-worker. She will not hold me back any longer and I think she is starting to realize this. Peace out to all the caretakers - especially the daughters of narcissistic mothers. No one has a clue unless you have walked in our footsteps.
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Your mom will have a negative reaction - she likes all her substances. May I suggest something for you - counselling for yourself. It appears you have co-dependency. Please go to Ala-non and/or a counsellor to learn new ways of coping and managing your life. Mom may never stop her alcoholic/addictive behaviors. It does not mean that you have to keep "covering" for her poor life choices.
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Wow, is this ever my area of expertise. Narcissistic mom. Walking on egg shells. Addiction in the family. I won’t lie - it has been tough. I have been living with recovery principles for over 20 years and I had to change how I thought about things and needed help with that. Here’s how I did it. The first step is being aware of the problem and you are there! Next, I have to get over the idea that I couldn’t dislike my mother. Something felt sacrilegious about talking about mom. I thought a lot about my priorities which were my husband and children. I started standing up to her - which at first gave me stomach butterflies. She would fight back hard to get her way. I had to allow her to fail. My instinct would be to make sure she had all her needs attended. She won’t starve. She won’t die without electricity if she forgets to pay the bill etc. I ended up taking her from her home and liquidating it all because she wouldn’t do it herself (and maybe wasn’t capable. Being old is hard). She was mad and accessed me of abusing her and called me names. When we sold her house, I put the money in an account with my name on it too - because she would never agree to go to the bank to make that happen. Work on your sanity. Growing up with an alcoholic makes people overly responsible and too helpful to the detriment of yourself. It may take therapy or Adult Children of Alcoholics to retrain your thought patterns. The tears and hard work are worth it.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
You are extremely caring and responsible. I admire that. Not everyone would treat someone with the dignity that you have.

It’s very difficult dealing with an addict. I dealt with it with my now deceased brother.

All of our circumstances are different and each of us have to do what works for them and their families. I am glad that you found a viable solution.
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You have to learn to pick your battles.

Accept the fact that at this point in time, you are Not going to change your mother. Quit trying. Think of the Serenity Prayer.

My mother refused any assistance so I quit trying. She passed in 2004, leaving me to assist my father for 7.5 years until he passed in 2011. I went in "blind" because my parents "didn't feel the need" to disclose information to their children.

I sat down with my father and explained that I would not pressure him to do anything - and I was pretty much good to my word - and we got to know each other on a much better level after my mother passed. He was not the villain and she was not the saint. They were human parents; we all have faults and vices.

You don't really have the 'right' to try to normalize anyone else. When you realize that the only person you have the right to even try to change is yourself, it will make your relationship with Mom a lot easier.
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NeedHelpWithMom Dec 2019
Wise words.
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With a slight shuffling of genders and issues, y’all gave a blow-by-blow description of:
•my dead family
•what’s left of my living family
•my in-laws

And my conditioned reactions to them.

I’m almost embarrassed by how many decades I rolled along, being the designated fixer.

OK. Who am I trying to kid? I embraced being the designated fixer. Even when it went against my best interests.

When you are raised from day one to be That Kind Of Special, it’s a hard habit to break.

In my 40s, I hit the wall with being everybody’s Sin Eater.

But.

I lacked the language to truly “call them like I see them.” I lacked the tools to protect myself.

Then I stumbled upon AC Forum. 💡

I’m done caregiving. For now, at least. Yet I stay on these message boards.

In my circle, nobody is getting any younger. And nobody is getting any saner.

AC Forum is a living tutorial about boundaries. What they are. How to identify people who don’t have boundaries.

And most importantly, how to develop your own boundaries.

I need the constant reinforcement that I get from reading your posts. You folks are awesome.

Even though I am darn good at compensating for other people’s personality disorders, it is NOT my calling. It is NOT my purpose.

Reliably, the Tribe Of Weaklings recognizes my “gift.” And it is frequently their default expectation.

NO. Just NO.

Thank you, AC Forum! Love and hugs to all. 💗💪🏼😃
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Frankly, I am gobsmacked by this discussion. “I” am the problem, and never realized it until reading this thread. After years of bitterness, begging my sister for help with OUR mother, I finally see how dysfunctional our family truly is. I’ve been brainwashed into protecting the wrong standards.
I’ve been to various counselors, on/off over many years, and never gained the insight that was shared here.
I didn’t see how “normal” families behave, so without a realistic frame of reference, I’ve been sucked into the dysfunctional tornado.
I have some thinking to do, and will certainly grow from this experience.
I’ll be back, but for now—THANK YOU.
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BlackHole Dec 2019
big hugs!
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Completely relate. Set boundaries and stick to them. Not only for your Mom but your siblings as well. Your Mom wont change but your response toward her can. Never take her behavior personal because you are not the source of her dysfunction. Live your life and when you think you need to stand up to her or say "No", do it! Let her be as negative as she wants and only do what your gut instinct tells you to do. Take back the power she has over you and you will see her behavior change. Good luck to you!
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You can bank on a negative reaction if that doctor starts weaning her off the opiates. It is so very, very common for alcoholics to move to pain pills while they are moving away from alcohol or when they find out alcohol plus the pain meds are a much better feeling. There were just too many doctors out there willing to prescribe the pain meds (and unreasonable quantities) just because someone complained of pain. Additionally, some did it even though they were quite aware an alcohol problem already existed. Thus, all the talk about reforms these days.

After you hear what the doctor has to say, you can create your conversation with her. Hopefully, he does go the addiction route so that the door can be opened with the help of an unbiased professional and things you avoided so many years can be discussed. And you will need medical assistance to lower amounts of the alcohol/drugs after so many years of abuse.

Good luck to you. It's not easy to change a lifestyle for ourselves, much less that of another person.
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I can definitely relate to what you are saying. My experience w/my mother, all my life, was that she was mean, narcissistic and definitely a borderline personality disorder. When I finally figured all this out, after a lot of therapy, and tried to explain why I would only be involved w/her on my terms, many family members denied the problem and "attacked the messenger" (me) instead. This fractured a lot of my family relationships, and even all these years later, they have never really healed. I realise now that those who denied the problem are/were the ones who are/were just like her. and it logically follows that I wouldn't be able to get along with them either. It helps to understand all this intellectually, but emotionally it's still a painful loss.

I definitely agree that setting boundaries is one answer. In my case, as she aged I insured that she was in a clean, safe environment that met her needs, and remained in close touch with the facility that provided this care, but that was the extent of my involvement. I don't feel any residual guilt over this decision b/c I did the best I could, and didn't completely abdicate my responsibilities to her...I just carried them out on my terms, not hers.

If addiction/alcoholism is part of the problem, and it sounds like it is, then Alanon might provide some support for you.

I know this is really difficult and hope sharing how I ultimately handled my situation makes you feel less alone. Wishing you all the best...
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Hi! I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. My mother is also an alcoholic, and her mother is mentally ill. I recently purchased a book "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Lindsay Gibson. I recommend this book to everyone. It's helped me more in a few weeks than years of therapy. No joke. I wish I could post a few pictures of the pages here.

It's based on decades of psychological research and explains EVERYTHING. It discusses the types of emotionally immature parents, why they are this way, what it does to their children's coping strategies and personality development, and how it tends to have a ripple effect through generations. It talks about these parents' preoccupation with themselves, their lack of ability to take responsibility, anticipate future problems, communicate feelings, cope with stressors (often resulting in addictions), and how they resist repairing relationships and become overly fixated on family roles. It also teaches you ways to manage your interactions with such parents, set healthy limits, break the cycle of negativity, and how to recognize and surround yourself with more emotionally mature and healthy people. Seriously, this book is a goldmine. If you're even just remotely thinking this could be helpful to you, or a loved one, order it. It's on Amazon and it's cheap. While it's helped me immensely in understanding my mother, it's also helped me understand so much about myself, it's improved my relationship with my husband, and I believe it will help me be a more emotionally healthy parent myself. Good luck!
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I am sorry for what you are going through.  I grew up with an alcoholic father and a mother who thought she deserved what she got.  It is HARD to break the cycle.  The bottom line here is....so what if your mom responds negatively?  It's her future you're trying to figure out and plan for...let her get angry and hateful.  Just sit and watch her like you're looking at a child throwing a tantrum.  Don't let her get a reaction from you.

If it were me, I would just say "you can either work with us to lay out a plan that you currently have a say in, or you can bury your head in the sand and once you are no longer capable, we will do what we think is best".  Those are her options...period. 

I had to let my dad continue with his drinking and carrying on.  I had to walk away to keep my sanity.  That is until I got a call that he had a stroke.   Then I had to come in and make medical and burial decisions without his input.  If he wanted something different, he should have planned.  Years later I realize he was sick and not capable of doing anything normal and I have accepted that.
You cannot fix her dysfunction.  But, you can choose not to enable it or let it ruin you.
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I can absolutely relate. My mother is also narcissistic and had alcohol issues in the past (she hasn't had alcohol is about 4 years). She also has the beginning of dementia. She gets nasty and beligerent when she doesn't get her way or when she hears things she doesn't like or when she believes things are happening when they aren't. We have all turned a blind eye to her drinking and general self centeredness for decades.

I've learned over the course of the last year not to fight her. She no longer wants me or my husband to go into the doctor's with her or make her any other kinds of appointments her GP may want. So we no longer do. I've advised my father that he will now have to be the one to be her caretaker, instead of the other way around. She feels we are spying on her and telling everyone she is crazy. She is just an unhappy human. Only my mother could see things that are being done out of love as a negative.

I've discussed with my Dad that as long as they are not in any harm, I won't get involved in any decisions for them, unless I am asked. He wants to stick his head in the sand regarding my mother's condition, no matter how much I try to make him realize that this is not going away, she is not going to get better, in fact her memory is deteriorating quickly and then I will step in by having a doctor sign off on the POA. Then the decisions will be made for her whether she likes it (she won't) or not.

I don't feel guilty for my decisions. As the old saying goes - You can lead a horse to water... They seem perfectly happy living their life so as long as they are safe and relatively healthy, we do what we can - and what they allow us to do - for them.
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ExhaustedPiper Dec 2019
After my mom got her dementia diagnosis and the doctor went over the recommendations two things happened- she HATES that doctor and refuses to go back, and she declared she would be going to her doctor appointments herself. She was/is still so pissed I was in the room when she got the diagnosis and HATED when I agreed with the doctor when he recommended she stop driving. Meanwhile his reasoning was based on HER scores, he listed about 5 deficits and gently tried to explain to her what that meant in terms of operating a motor vehicle. She wanted to know if "we were almost done" giving off that I don't care what you say attitude. In his final written report that was sent to both of us he noted her behavior at the prior meeting and her reluctance to the recommendations.

So yeah... I'm pretty much in the same boat as you except my mom lives alone with me next door. My dad died over 20 years ago. And she is still an active addict.
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