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Any suggestions or tips on how to get elder with dementia to take psychiatric med when they are in denial, do not think they have a problem and don’t want to take anything psychiatric? There is no guardianship so I don’t believe we can literally force it…

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aside from the full process of applying for guardian/ conservatorship, does anyone have experience with pursuing a court order to require an elder to take a medication or treatment which is strongly needed for their well being? Is that essentially the same process and timeline for applying for conservatorship? (assuming its a "non emergency" scenario).
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waytomisery Aug 21, 2024
I don’t know . But wanted to say I’m sorry you have to be considering this . Boy , Dad is really difficult .
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I tried my best the other day to sternly warn Dad that he is at risk of being asked to leave the AL. Hopefully he understood the message.
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waytomisery Aug 18, 2024
Maybe memory care would be willing to admit him . Hopefully they can get him to take his med .

Are there any geriatric psych hospitals near him ?
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Add to a blender or bullet drink
Add to ice cream
Add to anything they will eat.

This person has dementia and no one has legal authority?
Who is making these decisions?

Gena / Touch Matters
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strugglinson Aug 18, 2024
Myself and sib have POA. Psychiatrist , geriatrician and AL staff are now tuned in to the situation . With ongoing paranoia and suspicion , he asks regularly (maybe daily) what each pill is that he is being given, and still reasonably recognizes the look and shape of each pill- likely would notice if one was added or swapped out . And if a single staff member mentions the name of a new pill, he will notice .
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Maybe tell him they are vitamins? Or to “keep him strong and healthy”?

If he has any condition that bothers HIM (this is key) tell him the pills are for that. My dad only took his pills because we told him they would help with insomnia (which they did)

Good luck!
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Struggling, Dad's in AL isn't he?
Gosh his OCD sounds truly awful! 😣

The combination of these symptoms intereferring with his daily life so much plus refusing prescribed medication that could help.. this may just land him an inpatient psych stay soon.
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strugglinson Aug 18, 2024
Correct , AL. His second one . However this one , which is very active and hands on (the last one was more like Indep living and very hands off ) , have caught on to his issues and factors that interfere with his well being and ability to be cared for , quickly within 4 weeks . Plus he is overall declining so things have become a major problem quickly . Factor that in with life long stubbornness and strong will, it’s a mess .
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At first my mom was skeptical about taking medications. She was suspicious because she never took medication when she was healthy so taking her prescribed meds seemed odd to her.
Instead of saying she “needed” to take them, I started telling her that they were to keep her healthy. I would remind her how much she liked to stay healthy and how she didn’t like going to the doctor and so taking the pills were a way to keep her strong and young. Since that resonated with her, she began to take them willingly.
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Just say, "It is time for your medication. I usually explain what the medication does and not label it a psych med."
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I have told them this... Doctor ordered this for you". Sometimes that is enough. But, when not, telling the truth gets you no where. I at first refused to lie to them. But you cannot reason with a broken brain. Impossible in dementia. Tell them something like, " Gotta hurry up and take this so we can see, go visit or, do this or that. " Pick something they really look forward to, of course. Within minutes after taking med, they have forgotten what you said. Yes, they need proper care but so do the caregivers. It should not be a battle to get them to do what is best for them but much of the time it is. Caregivers, you need to take care of yourself so you can take care of them. When I told them the truth, much of time anger from them was the result. So that anger is better than white lies? Their blood pressure goes up, anxiety, agitation. And this happens to you, too!!! Is this good?
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Find words he is comfortable with. My FW doesn't like the term psychiatric drugs either. The visions and voices are very real to her. I just call it her bedtime pills and if she asks what it's for I tell her it's to helps keep the visitors and voices away from her. She's good with that.
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I can tell you what we did. First and number one we avoided the label Psychiatric medication and focused on what it did to help that she could relate to. For instance one was to help her sleep, a side affect that they often chose the Med for, rather than the fact that it improved her mood and cooperation the next day. When she started getting so anxious she described it as pain we told her it was to help her anxiety (it was) which she understood and could relate to, sometimes we said to help the pain when she wasn’t aware she was anxious just that her body “hurt”. When they put her on patches to help her memory we told her that’s what it was for, I’m not convinced it ever helped but it didn’t hurt either and she was fine with that knowing her short term memory wasn’t always good. When she got to the point where she wouldn’t take any of her medications we started crushing them and putting in applesauce, pudding or ice cream (she never turned down coffee ice cream or left enough to even lick the bottom of the container, lol) this wasn’t just the psyc meds which by that point were even more important, she was on other important meds with several medical issues. Then when she got to the point it was time for Hospice we started giving up on the supplements first and then everything accept the psyc meds because it really helped her comfort. She wasn’t really eating anymore so I crushed them and put them in water in a syringe and put them in her mouth that way but she was actively dying at that point so comfort was the only goal. We were fortunate in that her active dying didn’t drag out and she passed within a week or two of going on home hospice.

Even with guardianship you can’t “force” them to take a medication but you can try to find ways to get them into a patient without having to swallow a pill. I learned a little too late that many of these medications can come in liquid form too, not all can be crushed or administered in liquid form but many can. Good luck.
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Lymie61
What medications did you find that was beneficial for your mother without makingbher a zombie? I tried to reply to your comment but the option wasn’t there.
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Why do you want to drug them? Dementia can’t be cured! Ask yourself do you want to take an antipsychotic drug that alters your thoughts. Let me die first. I suppose the drugs are for your benefit to make them listless and easy to control
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Lymie61 Aug 17, 2024
This is a very unfair response. Dementia patients often get to the point where medications are helpful, yes for the caregivers and also for the patient, without making them listless or zombie like. In my mother’s case medication helped her quality of life as well as ours and we were very adamant that she wasn’t doped up.
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anosognosia. totally

now that I understand this term well:
1) myself and family tried our hardest to explain it to him, that he is severely impaired in thinking, not "okay" as he thinks he is. We were not sure if he would get it, but it was worth a try. I dont think it worked and he does not have understanding still.

2) Now realizing this is what he has, I'm trying to work with knowing that is the case, telling the doctors and care staff that that is what he has, so they quickly know.
Wish me luck.....
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Even if you had guardianship good luck forcing him to take meds -- or do anything -- if he fights it. For my cousin with ALZ and agitation, she had to be in the hospital psych ward for a month until she started taking her meds voluntarily. Then she was released back home. You can tell your Dad this may be the next step if he continues to give the AL a hard time. But I totally agree with a therapeutic fib. Not all meds can be ground up or broken so you'd need to discuss with the pharmacist. They can be very bitter, so they'd need to go into something with a strong cover flavor. I wish you success!
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Back in the day when I was a young nurse working in a nursing home , we used to tell them it was a vitamin. You can argue whether that was ethical or not , but that was then .

When my mother was in AL from2016-2018 , and my FIL was in a different AL from 2022-Jan 2024, they would not lie to them , despite my asking them too . I tried . They weren’t violent . They were both depressed , and calling us up all the time complaining , didht think they belonged there , demanding to leave , refused hygiene and help with incontinence care.

As is common with dementia , Neither one could recognize there was anything wrong with them and said they didn’t need that pill . My mother said “ I’m not crazy “ , my FIL thought they wanted to drug him “ to take his independence away “.

They both scrutinized every pill given to them to make sure they recognized it or they asked what it was for.

I know when they are further along in memory care it’s easier , like Lealonnie says they can crush them and hide them in pudding.

Since my mother wouldn’t take any med for her mood, and OCD , I had to take one in order to survive dealing with her . Seems backwards to me . Just one of the reasons I left working in healthcare .

I don’t have an answer for you . The answer is to lie to him and say it’s a vitamin , but that’s not allowed. Instead we let them suffer in their circular OCD , anxiety ridden brains these days .
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strugglinson Aug 11, 2024
This is exactly the scenario with him. The problem is that the AL staff won’t put up with the stubbornness and telling much longer . I think if things don’t improve they may suggest that he leave .
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It's not denial with dementia, it's anosognosia. An inability to recognize a deficit. My mother suffered from it too, and it just takes the frustration level up a notch or 10.

When mom refused her meds, her doc ordered them ground up and put into yoghurt so she didn't even realize she was taking them. I only had POA, no guardianship, which I do not believe allows you to force anyone to take meds. But what he doesn't know may help him, hopefully.
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