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Is this a form of dementia? She recalls an event, that never happened. Then when questioned about it a few days later, adam rly denies saying it. She is 78 years old. Other than this, her memory is pretty good. But when she tells something that's questionable, she defends it violently! And then denies it just as violently. It gets to the point I don't want to talk to her.

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My father-in-law makes up lies all the time and has done so for a long time. Is this something that your aunt has just recently started doing? Then an appointment with a neurologist is in order. If this something that she has done all her life, or even with some dementia, it's better to just not confront them; they'll just end up lying again.
I know it's extremly frustrating. Good luck,
Dina
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Thanks Dina...Not her whole life. Within the last 10 years...maybe.. She truely believes what she says when she tells the stories ( which are somewhat based on actual events) ... But later forgets what she's said...no... I would never confront her.., but these stories go around the family and get back to her.. Causing an outrage...
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My FIL also lies. His latest is that he is absolute agony when his son phones him, and he puts on a full act of speaking with breathless voice, moaning if he has to move, etc. Last night said son accused us of not looking after him because this chest pain is dragging on and on and what the hell were we going to do about it.
This morning we asked him if he was in pain still ... oh yes, he said, as he slapped his chest hard, and jumped down the stairs and did a little jig to get to the coffee machine as fast as he could. Its absolute agony to move, he said, as he stretched up to the top shelf and got a new packet of coffee down. It hurts to breathe, he said as he breathed in deeply and said oh spring is coming.
Would you like a pill for the pain, we asked. Oh no, he said, it doesn't hurt enough for a painkiller.

Who would have thought that a grown intelligent man with two professorships would become like this?

(We have at least 6 - 10 of these "stories" a day)
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So what, let it go, if she feels the need to embellish or make up stuff, let her, the only time I would worry about it or do something is if she accused me or hitting her, then it is a REAL problem, believe me on this one.
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It's called "confabulation", my mother did it also. She couldn't remember it as an untruth, so, it must have happened. It's not uncommon. The situation may have been a dream of something long ago, or something she saw on television. The person just doesn't realize that there is a difference between fact and fiction because it fits into the time gap.
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At the risk of being a rapscallion, try to embellish the stories.
Add a part about your alien abduction, or tell Dad about how embarrassed he made the family when he had an affair with Liz Taylor, but when the Pope forgave him, it was all cool again. Obviously, this tactic will not be appropriate, but it worked for me when I was caring for Ronald Reagan, during his second presidency. That's where he an Nancy got the astrology from. I never *dreamed* they would take it seriously. But that advice got us out of a recession. Didn't work out so well with that Ollie North, but that story's for another day.
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Yes, Iike that word "rapscallion," we need to have a sense of humor for sure.
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My Dad does this constantly. He fabricates some really interesting stuff. I just sort of go no really and I don't challenge him or question him. I know its fantasy. In his mind it's true. Of course he fabricates to strangers at times. I just give him a look and shake my head. He's like a small child at times with his stories. I know my father has dementia and I swear he's in a second child hood. There is one story he always tells me about how poor they were as a kid. I actually laugh about it because it gets so ridiculous and far fetched. The story goes that he had to walk to school three miles in a snowstorm, uphill both ways of course barefooted. Because it was his brothers day to wear the shoes. This really never happened of course, he did have boots. School was three miles away but up hill both ways, barefoot. It's his fantasy but it's just not realistic.
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Mom does the same thing, and my initial reaction was: lies!! Because I was brought up to always say the truth it was an issue--and now the enforcer was breaking the rules. I finally realized she spoke partial truths and strung them together, as if one story reminded her of another...once I understood, I just went with it and stopped correcting her. And in five minutes, it was forgotten. You've got what you've got. We can't change it.
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Making up and denying stories is one thing, however as a caregiver you must be very, very careful about the kind of stories, and to whom they are telling them. Sometimes it seems that they actually do believe their own stories, and that is fine......but if they are contacting people with stories that are totally untrue and incriminating, then you have a problem, as I did when my mother wrote a letter to a family friend because she wasn't getting her own way and was having a bad day.
She fabricated a scenario where she was "being held prisoner in jail" without privacy, phone use, or the opportunity of "getting out"; she also said that she wasn't getting enough food (but it was the kind of food she wanted that she wasn't getting, in actual fact).
The person who received the letter reported me to the elder care agency in our city, who then contacted the police. There was a full investigation by both and records were made. I received many phone calls and had to deal with many people from both the agency and the police.
I also called a family meeting so that she could be confronted to see the damage she had done, and so that other family members would be aware of the lengths she had gone to because she was trying to manipulate her situation.
Of course she lied about every single detail, from whom she sent the letter to, that it should not have been shown to anyone (what did she think the person who received it was going to do with it? she was only trying to help in what she thought was a real, serious situation!! I don't blame the lady who received it at all, in fact I pride her in trying to do the right thing, I would have done the same), and that she "didn't really mean it", but would not admit she was wrong, nor, naturally, did I get an apology.
My sibling, however, who joined the meeting, got an "I'm so sorry, I didn't think a little letter would cause so much trouble" (yeah right, that was exactly your intent) and a kiss and a hug. He has nothing to do with her caregiving and sees her once a year.
When my mother fell last year resulting in two black eyes, I was terrified that she was going to tell the emerg dr.s that I had done it. She wouldn't take responsibility for the fall either, saying "someone must have dropped some water on the bathroom floor". This was hilarious because she fell in our bedroom, not her bathroom!! I also got grilled on that incident.
Just know that they are very devious, secretive, manipulative, and creative in these stories, and to whom they tell them. Be on guard for YOU!!
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rhastings - ohhhh, you funny lil' fox!

Bobbie - she is having "False Beliefs" and it is all a part of whatever dementia she has. You can google dementia false beliefs for stories. My mom has Lewy Body Dementia and with her there are hallucinations of animals -mainly cats & rabbits. It seems to be a visual connection to something from about 48 hours before timeframe. The visual is 100&1% totally real to her. Telling her that it isn't happening or real doesn't work and gets my mom even more fixed in her false belief. You have to do what works best for you (not her) in dealing with these situations.
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I hear ya seven13. My mom, with help from her paid caregiver slash new best friend slash weasel, contacted a lawyer and accused me of stealing all her documents. I had to hire a lawyer to defend myself. If I hadn't, I am positive the stories would've been much worse. It was horrified and embarrassed. Mom didn't have dementia but clearly had mental issues the caregiver used to her advantage. I totally agree your elder needs to watched. I could've ended up like you with the police involved. I shudder to think!!
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Mine doesn't have dementia either, and she is almost 88! But there are clearly (and have been for a long, long time) some underlying mental issues.....but she is so clever at diverting doctors' questions and wangling them for meds that no one is on to her: except ME!!! Yes I do have to be very, very careful. There is an awful lot of this behaviour going on with her. Funny, I never noticed it when she was living alone in her apartment in another town (I would talk to her by phone once a day but she was always on her best, most competent behaviour) but, believe me, once she came to live with us four years ago, I sure got my eyes open!!
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Also just wanted to mention that a lot of times, they make up these stories just so they will have someone to engage in conversation, or to give themselves a sense of importance. In my mother's case, she has always been an "arguer" and must be right at all times......so she will go to extremes to make up things and then deny them, or change the subjects of the arguments etc. so she can be "right". She will fight to be right and will argue to the death, over time, money, the weather, over a second or over a penny. She will look right in your face and try to convince you that there's something wrong with you, you are overreacting, you're too sensitive, you have a bad memory, you like to play dumb, don't you, blah, etc etc etc.
On top of this I realize that not only is it part of her personality, I honestly see that she has always had some sort of borderline personality disorder complicated by narcissism. It ain't pretty!!
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My mother confabulates all the time. She has rewritten history. The trouble is that the confabulation becomes the truth because she remembers it. The true history is lost. I don't know about others, but rearranging history has a warping effect on my mind. It can be distressing to hear untruths without correcting them when she is talking to me or other people. But I just bite my tongue and figure that the twisted tales really don't do any harm.
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IAre the things she lies about random in nature, or is there some kind of benefit to them such as winning an argument or getting even ? If she is lying on purpose, you should watch your back and get a little "Nanny Cam" or something to protect yourself. If she is truely forgetful, I wouldnt worry quite as much because even if she does say something that makes it appear you are guilty of some misdeed or of abusing her, the professionals will realize she is one taco short of a combination plate after speaking with her for a few minutes. My grandmother lied all the time when she was younger, so even though she is a wee bit forgeetful at 91, I realize she is also a wee bit manipulative. When its to her advantage, she will play the "age card" .and "forgets" as a way of avoiding responsibility. Its pretty obvious to me what she is doing. Its very different from when she is truely confused or delusional. For example, she sometimes blames people for stealing things from her, but its never anything they would want. My daughters boyfriend was accused of stealing her deodorant, and her teapot, among other things, but the truth was he and my daughter were looking for apartments so they could move out of here and my grandmother felt like he was stealing HER. Psychologically, the teapot represented my daughter. She also accused my boyfriend (thankfully not to his face) of taking a blanket, a table cloth and a lamp, and arguing with her was no use, she was convinced. Once she realized he was no threat to her and I wasnt planning on moving in with him and leaving her, she totally forgot the valuable missing items.
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seven13 - you deserve a big platinum star for dealing with her. You know it's likely to get even more intense in her accusations as her aging and dementia progresses. My mom is the martyr type - always has been. She is also very negative - if there is a glass, the glass is half empty and it has a crack in it and the crack was deliberately put there by so&so to hurt her. She always refused to take any responsiblity on her actions, it's always somebody else's fault. When she was still in her home, she fixated on one of the neighbors of 25+ years who was stalking / stealing from her; when she was in IL, it was one of the other residents, who she had known from high school. She called the police on them. When she was still at home, she was totally believable & I and other family fell for it. When it started happening again when she was in IL, you could tell that it was a false belief because of the crazy stuff that was being taken and that was one of the reasons to move her into a NH.

If this is their bent, its not going to change and is only going to be more intense. Your mom has fixated that you are the point source of her problems. So keep a journal of her actions as you may need it to counter more accusations and also to provide a history of her incompetence and lack of cognitive ability for when the day comes that she needs to be in a facility for her own safety. Good luck.
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My adult kids and I always wondered if mom had two personas. The outside world thought she was grand. To us she was a monster. They even told me to never go there alone for fear of what would happen to me. She eventually disowned us because she couldn't get us to do it "her way", that along with that vile person who nosed her way into our lives at my mom's insistence. Lord only knows what mom told people. Stories are one thing, what your mom and mine did went beyond the pale. She passed away two years ago and my kids and I finally feel free to move about the cabin so to speak. I resent her for making us feel this way. I wish I could say loving things about her but there just aren't any.
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Holy Moly Bat Man, Seven 13, that is exactly what I meant when I said you'd have some real trouble. It has happened to me, it truly is horrific, I moved country to have it happen to me, a foreign land despite land of my birth, knew no one and I accused by my mother telling stories that I was hitting, not feeding her and keeping her jailed, etal. What a disaster for me that was, I told my mother in no uncertain terms, also the people who came here to investigate, that if anything ever remotely occurs like this I will leave this country and not look back, end of story period. I went through hell to get here and gave up the life I knew, I will not be ever placed in that position again, it will be over, and I will not think about it twice.
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This all sounds like the movie "Big Fish." But seriously, my daughter-in-law has always come up with real doozies and then later she tells it like someone else has told her that. She doesn't remember saying or doing the things herself. I think it has to do with brain farts. She is not elderly and she has been doing this all her life. I also have a 12 years old grandson who between ages 3-10 would do something in plain sight of everyone and then deny he had done it! His pants were on fire a lot! LOL
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My Mom has always been like this. When I was younger, now 52, she would embellish the story; if she won $20 at bingo it became $100. If she bought a dress a full price it became a dress she bought for 20% off. Now she tells stories from the past that are blatantly untrue, but not in her mind. When I say, "Mom, that never happened." Or, "That's not how I remember it." She says, "Well, you're wrong!" My Mom is manipulative and self-serving. She has always undermined everyone by making belittling, disparaging remarks. For example, I have a top that has some beautiful needlework around the sleeves. Mom says, "Who would spend that much time, doing something so tedious." She is extremely self-deceptive about her motives & how selfish & aggressive she is. But, what are you going to do? She has lived with us for four years; and adores her grandsons & my husband. Me, not so much. That's one of the reasons I come to this website. Thanks for all the help.
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Seven13 I copied your second paragraph, put it into my keep-me-from-going crazy journal, I could have written it. She tells me this about my brother who has been doing most of the caregiving; when I go for my regular visits I find out the truth. She tells anyone who'll listen about "abuse". It's upsetting; eventually she will be living full time with me, I'm getting a nanny cam.
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This one of the toughest things well not really the toughest but the most frustrating. My mother has recently returned to telling whoppers and blaming others for stealing her belongings (things of course, no one would steal). I'm taking her to the neurologist this week for a re-evaluation to see if meds need to be modified. What worries me is that previously she became so paranoid or delusional that she started actually confronting people and accusing them of stealing things. When the "stealing" occurs infrequently it's easier to handle it and just focus on what items she was obviously looking for and can't find and replace it or look for it. But when my tolerance is low or she is having a grand day it's over...I will argue with her and try to be rational with her (I know, I know-that's nuts) and ruin our visit. Other times I try to have a sense of humor about the stolen items. Isn't there a lying pill? LOL
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I don't know if a nanny cam will be useful, perhaps a reality show would do the trick.
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I have to agree with sevn13 on this one. This happened to me last year. Not quite as serious - but it certainly can end up like this and I do live in fear of it. The lies have been a part of my MIL's life for a long time now. What we didn't realize what just what she was saying and to whom!

Last August I overheard her telling all form of lies to her social worker. She spent an hour at it. She sounded 'perfectly normal' - except that either the things she was saying never happened at all - never happened the way she described or were PURE FABRICATION!! I was devastated - because everything she said was ABOUT ME - her caregiver.

Hubby and I confronted her about one of her more serious accusations and even recorded our conversation and she DENIED EVERYTHING.

We later found out that she has been spreading these 'lies' and 'insinuations' for a long time - at least 2 years - to anyone we know mutually or to anyone who called, wrote to her or stopped by, including PT's, nurses, meals on wheels, etc. Since what she says 'sounds' plausible - how would anyone know? Even people I thought were friends never told me what she was saying. One friend stopped associating with me at all and now just calls my MIL and goes to see her (my MIL has her own little apt. next door to us). It is the saddest and strangest thing we have ever dealt with. And my MIL BELIEVES WHAT SHE SAYS!! If confronted, she will either deny saying it or try and push blame for it onto me.

Since last August - I have limited my association with my MIL to just absolutely necessary interactions. After reading about seven13's troubles, I may limit them even more. She cannot be trusted. She is a very disloyal person. I pity her.

Be careful everyone - it isn't as simple a thing as dementia. My MIL had the little test for dementia and she is not demented - she is just plain MAD! Our doctor says she cannot control her anger and rage at the losses she has suffered - her husband died, she had to leave her farm, she has little contact with her other kids (THEIR CHOICE) and has lost her health, mobility and the final straw seems to be when she was no longer able to drive. She told the PT that it was MY fault because I did not allow her enough time to recuperate!! The doctor said her recuperation was HER RESPONSIBILITY - that she chose NOT to do the exercises necessary to regain her mobility. But that isn't what she tells everyone else.

She has episodes of neuralgia facial pain or dehydration (you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make them drink) that sends her to the ER 2-3 times a year and I too 'dread' when they ask her if she feels safe at home. All she would have to say is NO and make something up.
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Its hard to do and easy to say, but you really just have to ignore it. There is nothing you can say or do that will make her quit or admit. Their brains are not functioning properly. My mom, still remembers the lies, but can't remember the truth. My (only)sister and I would like to be able to get to know our 4 other siblings. Of course she wouldn't be able to introduce us anyway, because she can't remember who we are. My mom was a pretty sharp cookie before this traitorous affliction creeped into our lives. I used to try and logically walk her through the "lie". What a waste of emotions and time. It takes awhile to come to grips with the futility of trying to help her remember. She would be horrified to comprehend what she has become. I'm terrified for myself. I can only hope that my daughter will not take anything to heart that I forget or makeup about her in the event that I follow in my mom's footsteps.
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Seven13 - I do seriously believe that many of these people have a personality disorder!! My MIL lies about EVERYTHING - even the smallest things - unnecessary things. She lies when the truth would even sound BETTER!

I do not confront her - I STAY AWAY FROM HER!! I will never again trust her in the smallest thing - I never share anything with her except 'generalities.' She is despicable. Anyone dealing with an elder who lies is in danger.
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This is a really entertaining thread, reading about these stories of lies and embellishments. Susan26's Dad story was hillarious, and RHasting's job caretaking Reagan was too funny for words. My situation w/ Mom is like JesseBelle's. She re-writes history, which I mostly go along with too, but in some ways it is rather frustrating because our real history is very rich, involving Mom marrying my Dad at the end of WW2 in England, meeting him at the Ritz, a handsome American soldier, and her coming over to America at age 18, leaving her entire family behind. And then the life they led, eventually involving all four of us kids, was really a book in the making with all the bizarre happenings, and events that were just not the normal scenario. I know all the details, and Mom has now gotten everything so mixed up, sticking her own Dad in MY Dad's role. Telling ppl MY Dad was a Doctor and piano player. NOT! Actually she FORGETS my Dad. Granted he died 30 years ago, but he was a John Wayne kind of guy, and I just can't believe Mom forgets him. I get out the pics then, and remind her, and then little pieces come back, and I do it in a nice way, and don't correct her in front of other ppl, but it's so hard (like JessieBelle said) to let all of this crazy stuff be told all mixed up and out of sync to ppl who are sitting there saying, "Oh, really. How interesting. Wow!, etc." I try to give them a look to say, "DON'T BELIEVE A WORD," but what the heck. I guess it just makes for more interesting fodder, although the real stuff was interesting enough. I just hope she doesn't start adding murderers, and the like into the mix. Then I would have to step in and say STOP!! PROTEST!! :) I do have to wonder what she tells certain care girls that I have started having come now and then. I know she talks their ears off. I can only hope they take much of it with a grain of salt. Maybe I'll set up a hidden recorder. That could be worth some real belly laughs. I suppose I'll have to write the book that Mom was going to write before I start forgetting. The fog rolls in before we know it. YIKES!
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We're dealing with the stealing things that no one would or could or want to steal issue as well. When I walk her through it, and this has been going on for decades, she changes the subject but then it pops up again and again. Except for the problems that could occur if someone believes her without investigating I tell her it isn't true and go on to something else, now that I see the pattern, and at 91 she doesn't have dementia. I like the above comment that to her it's conversation that makes her the center of attention.
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Oldcodger2, its only my extremely humble opinion, but you might want to consider a second opinion. I wouldn't put all of my trust on a "little" test for dimentia. My mom was smart as a whip, she had the doctors asking my dad, why did he want her to have dementia/AZ so badly? When you are only around them for a short period of time, they can convince anyone of anything. There are many types and reasons for dementia. Some people, lose their sense of appropriateness, others their control of their anger. It's usually later when the memory hits the fan.
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