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By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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You do not give any information. Why was your father in a Nursing Home? Was it a long term stay or was it Rehab? If it was a long term stay why did you take him home? If it was rehab.. why was he released and why did you agree to take him home if you could not provide the care he requires. If you can not provide the care he needs you could have said to release him would be "an unsafe discharge" and they would have worked with you to determine a way to find a facility that would be able to meet his care needs. If you can not provide proper care IF something happens then who ever is responsible for him MIGHT "in trouble". Unless it is a case of gross negligence I doubt anyone would be prosecuted. But the goal is to make sure dad is safe and cared for. If you can not accomplish that at home then you do need to search a way to make sure that he is safely cared for.
Ok from what you describe, it appears you may need better situational awareness of the system of elder care in our country (or lack thereof) and how to use information and resources to your advantage to be your father’s advocate and protector over his care and well being. That is, if that is a role you are willing to take.
The US healthcare system will chew up an uninformed consumer and spit them out - especially when it comes to senior care. I certainly don’t claim to have all the answers either, but in the past four years I have gained a real education taking care of two 90+ parents. Whether you have an actual legal obligation to arrange for his care is for a legal expert in your state to answer. You certainly have an ethical obligation if he resides with you. If he resides in his own home, without anyone to assist him, someone should have objected to this release before it happened.
First, start educating yourselves. Research relevant topics on this website and elsewhere. Go to the Medicare and Medicaid websites. Many of your questions will be answered and, of equal importance, you will also learn about mistakes and pitfalls. You already made a mistake taking him back in your home (if that is where he is) as opposed to telling the facility he was being released from that you could not meet his care needs and could not take him back into your home. If he has limited finances and you are both working, how is this going to work? If you are not able to meet his medical, physical, financial and cognitive needs, then it is unsafe for a facility to foist his care on you. If he was released to his home without an adequate care plan then it was a mistake to let them do that. They have a duty to ensure he is released to a safe home environment or to find a facility that is suitable for his release. Read, everything you can - search internet articles, talk to people who have been there and get yourself educated about the situation. If he returns to a hospital remember the unsafe discharge provision.
Secondly, but a priority, is to find an experienced estate attorney to make sure you have your legal ducks in a row to manage the situation. Preferably one who has Medicaid expertise. Who has medical and financial POA? Does he have a will and advance medical directive? Are there other family members who might help - or interfere? Facilities and medical personnel will not respond to people who can’t show a legal right to speak for the patient. That is the law and it makes sense.
The reason I say educate yourself and then hire an attorney is that I hate it when people don’t do any of their own homework and just hire an “expert” to do everything for them without having any skin in the game or understanding of what the game is. The more you know the easier it is for an attorney to assess your needs, guide you and speed up the process of finding suitable care. That doesn’t mean you should wait to find an attorney- just educate yourselves at the same time. Good luck.
I don't get this. My husband went from being in acute care in a nursing home for rehab after a hospital stay. When it was clear he needed 24/7 care he went from rehab into long term care residency in the same facility. Nursing homes provide 24/7 care. Why would a nursing home discharge someone who needs 24/7 care? The only reasons I can think of are no room, not set up for memory care or dementia, and behavior/security. What am I missing here? Are we confusing SNF with AL or memory care?
My aunt had the same situation. She was living in an independent living HUD senior residence and the social worker at her facility put her in a rehab facility because she wasn't caring for herself adequately. They said that when she was released from rehab she'd have to have 24/7 care if she wanted to stay in her apartment in independent living. She wanted to stay in her apartment, so we got her a live-in aide. Her residence helped find the aide. We had to rearrange the apartment (clean out one of the closets for the aide, buy a new day bed, etc.). I was living in a different city from my aunt at the time and couldn't help with daily oversight or care.
In most cases, family members are not legally obligated to provide 24 hour care for their loved ones, even if they have significant care needs. However, there are some legal considerations to keep in mind:
1. Neglect Laws. Depending on the jurisdiction, family members could be held accountable if their actions are considered neglectful or if they fail to provide necessary care, leading to harm. This varies by state and local laws.
2. Adult Protective Services (APS). If authorities believe that a person is being neglected or abused, APS can intervene to ensure the individual’s safety. This intervention might include finding alternative care arrangements.
3. Guardianship Responsibilities. If a family member is a legal guardian or has power of attorney, they may have specific legal responsibilities to ensure appropriate care.
While nursing home staff are correct that the facility must provide adequate care, families generally are not held to the same legal standards unless neglect or abuse is evident. It would be wise to seek advice from a legal professional or social worker to understand the local laws and explore possible care options.
A slowish decline at first but recently accelerating as of late. he suffered a fall and then the subsequent rehab period brought it to light and warranted the dementia diagnosis
When you were told that he was 24/7 care you could have refused to take him home because no one was there to care for him. It would have been an unsafe discharge. You could have then tell them that because you work, you cannot care for him. He also does not have enough kiney for long-term aides in the home. So, their option was to transfer him to Long-term care. In my area, both are in the same building. He uses what money he has for care and before it runs out, you apply for Medicaid. Which is what you need to do now. Make an appt at Social Services to talk to a medicaid caseworker. Have Dads financials and other legal info tgat maybe needed. Find out what the income cap is and asset cap. I spent my Mom down within the 90 days Medicaid allows in my State. She paid May and June privately and Medicaid started July 1st.
Dad? Is Dad signing his own discharge papers? Able to talk his way out to go home? Able to call a taxi home? Independant?
Or has family signed him out & driven him home? If so, the duty of care lies with family.
I'd be less worried about legal stuff - I'd be looking for safety solutions. What to add. eg + Welfare calls morning & night. + Falls alarm.
Can Dad use a telephone correctly? To answer? To call 911? Press a falls alarm?
If yes, this may extend his home stay.. maybe.
If not, add daily welfare checks in person. If he survives his next fall he'll be back on the ER-rehab-nursing home ride. Next time consider blocking the home exit.
Thank you for elaborating, it makes perfect sense now. This sort of thing happens all too often. What you need to do now is go to your local Agency on Aging and ask for help, also, contact the state Medicaid office and see how the application is coming and tell the caseworker there your father needs a NH now. If you do that and you still don't get any help in the time you need, the final option is to call 911, tell the ambulance he fell, have him transported to the hospital, but this time, YOU DO NOT TAKE HIM HOME. You tell them it is unsafe, and you don't have the resources or ability to safely take care of him. The hospital will find a NH for him.
There’s a lesson in this – don’t get pushed! “The social worker at the nursing home said he must have 24/7 supervision, we agreed because he was being sent home”. If you had said ‘no we can’t provide 24/7 supervision’, he wouldn’t have been sent home and some other arrangements would have been made. You may need to stress that he has become much worse and that’s why it hasn’t worked out, not that you ‘lied’. Social workers have a lot to answer for when they work for hospitals or other places that want someone out the door.
Did you tell the nursing home that you could not provide 24/7 care at home ? Because they can’t discharge if it’s an unsafe discharge. Or did they make you feel that you had to take him home ? No you aren’t violating any law . Perhaps call your County Area of Aging for help . They will send a social worker to the home for a needs assessment and help you navigate this . Maybe there would be some help available to come to the home or the social worker can help with placement .
More information would be helpful , to garner help here .
You are in no violation of any law if you are unable to provide care for your demented father. Why was he released from the Nursing Home? That is where he belongs if there is no other safe place for him. You don’t have to provide that safe place, and for many it is simply not possible even if you wanted to because of work responsibilities, financial limitations, or simply not enough help from others. Please tell us more and we can tell you how to proceed.
The situation is that we are caring for him 14 hours a day and the other 10 he is paying out of pocket however, he is rapidly running out of money. neither I nor my wife can't provide the other 10 hours a day because of our jobs. when he was released from the rehab (after a fall) the social worker at the nursing home said he must have 24/7 supervision we agreed because he was being sent home. well, after almost a month the dementia is getting worse and the money is dwindling down and we don't know what to do next. We did apply for medicaid almost two months ago but have not heard back from them as of yet. he says he can live alone (he's 95) but we're scared to leave him alone for 10 hours a day and afraid if we do APS will come after us of he falls again.
No discharge plan meeting? They would not discharge (they're supposed to not, anyway), unless this was taken care of, or they could get in trouble with the state and possibly federal .
I very much doubt it. A NH has no ability to make decisions that are legally binding. This one may just be an attempt to make you keep him in the NH. However, if F is injured and it becomes obvious that he was not receiving adequate care, the NH’s comment might be part of what is looked at. Even so, the chances are that you may have no legal obligation to care for him at all, around the clock or otherwise.
Sorry, but not enough information here. It would be illegal for a nursing home to release a patient they know to be a danger to self or others. How exactly did this happen? And the answer to whether you are responsible for your father or not is that no, you are not responsible. However, you are morally (in my humble opinion) required to let APS know that the nursing home has released a senior incompetent in caring for himself and that you are no involved in his care, nor do you intend to be.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Why was your father in a Nursing Home? Was it a long term stay or was it Rehab?
If it was a long term stay why did you take him home?
If it was rehab.. why was he released and why did you agree to take him home if you could not provide the care he requires. If you can not provide the care he needs you could have said to release him would be "an unsafe discharge" and they would have worked with you to determine a way to find a facility that would be able to meet his care needs.
If you can not provide proper care IF something happens then who ever is responsible for him MIGHT "in trouble". Unless it is a case of gross negligence I doubt anyone would be prosecuted.
But the goal is to make sure dad is safe and cared for.
If you can not accomplish that at home then you do need to search a way to make sure that he is safely cared for.
The US healthcare system will chew up an uninformed consumer and spit them out - especially when it comes to senior care. I certainly don’t claim to have all the answers either, but in the past four years I have gained a real education taking care of two 90+ parents. Whether you have an actual legal obligation to arrange for his care is for a legal expert in your state to answer. You certainly have an ethical obligation if he resides with you. If he resides in his own home, without anyone to assist him, someone should have objected to this release before it happened.
First, start educating yourselves. Research relevant topics on this website and elsewhere. Go to the Medicare and Medicaid websites. Many of your questions will be answered and, of equal importance, you will also learn about mistakes and pitfalls. You already made a mistake taking him back in your home (if that is where he is) as opposed to telling the facility he was being released from that you could not meet his care needs and could not take him back into your home. If he has limited finances and you are both working, how is this going to work? If you are not able to meet his medical, physical, financial and cognitive needs, then it is unsafe for a facility to foist his care on you. If he was released to his home without an adequate care plan then it was a mistake to let them do that. They have a duty to ensure he is released to a safe home environment or to find a facility that is suitable for his release. Read, everything you can - search internet articles, talk to people who have been there and get yourself educated about the situation. If he returns to a hospital remember the unsafe discharge provision.
Secondly, but a priority, is to find an experienced estate attorney to make sure you have your legal ducks in a row to manage the situation. Preferably one who has Medicaid expertise. Who has medical and financial POA? Does he have a will and advance medical directive? Are there other family members who might help - or interfere? Facilities and medical personnel will not respond to people who can’t show a legal right to speak for the patient. That is the law and it makes sense.
The reason I say educate yourself and then hire an attorney is that I hate it when people don’t do any of their own homework and just hire an “expert” to do everything for them without having any skin in the game or understanding of what the game is. The more you know the easier it is for an attorney to assess your needs, guide you and speed up the process of finding suitable care. That doesn’t mean you should wait to find an attorney- just educate yourselves at the same time. Good luck.
What am I missing here? Are we confusing SNF with AL or memory care?
1. Neglect Laws. Depending on the jurisdiction, family members could be held accountable if their actions are considered neglectful or if they fail to provide necessary care, leading to harm. This varies by state and local laws.
2. Adult Protective Services (APS). If authorities believe that a person is being neglected or abused, APS can intervene to ensure the individual’s safety. This intervention might include finding alternative care arrangements.
3. Guardianship Responsibilities. If a family member is a legal guardian or has power of attorney, they may have specific legal responsibilities to ensure appropriate care.
While nursing home staff are correct that the facility must provide adequate care, families generally are not held to the same legal standards unless neglect or abuse is evident. It would be wise to seek advice from a legal professional or social worker to understand the local laws and explore possible care options.
Was there a Dementia diagnosis before this recent fall or health event?
Or could this be Delerium?
When you were told that he was 24/7 care you could have refused to take him home because no one was there to care for him. It would have been an unsafe discharge. You could have then tell them that because you work, you cannot care for him. He also does not have enough kiney for long-term aides in the home. So, their option was to transfer him to Long-term care. In my area, both are in the same building. He uses what money he has for care and before it runs out, you apply for Medicaid. Which is what you need to do now. Make an appt at Social Services to talk to a medicaid caseworker. Have Dads financials and other legal info tgat maybe needed. Find out what the income cap is and asset cap. I spent my Mom down within the 90 days Medicaid allows in my State. She paid May and June privately and Medicaid started July 1st.
Dad? Is Dad signing his own discharge papers? Able to talk his way out to go home? Able to call a taxi home? Independant?
Or has family signed him out & driven him home? If so, the duty of care lies with family.
I'd be less worried about legal stuff - I'd be looking for safety solutions. What to add. eg
+ Welfare calls morning & night.
+ Falls alarm.
Can Dad use a telephone correctly? To answer? To call 911? Press a falls alarm?
If yes, this may extend his home stay.. maybe.
If not, add daily welfare checks in person. If he survives his next fall he'll be back on the ER-rehab-nursing home ride. Next time consider blocking the home exit.
Safety precaution will also help you if someone does question you leaving him alone.
It's not unusual that he is having cognitive decline after a fall and hospital stay.
Or did they make you feel that you had to take him home ?
No you aren’t violating any law .
Perhaps call your County Area of Aging for help . They will send a social worker to the home for a needs assessment and help you navigate this . Maybe there would be some help available to come to the home or the social worker can help with placement .
More information would be helpful , to garner help here .
How exactly did this happen?
And the answer to whether you are responsible for your father or not is that no, you are not responsible. However, you are morally (in my humble opinion) required to let APS know that the nursing home has released a senior incompetent in caring for himself and that you are no involved in his care, nor do you intend to be.