Can you choose to transfer from one CCRC to another?

I wonder if the best thing to do is not explore a few and ask that question directly of them. I too, would be interested in their answer to this question. I will be following this thread to see what answers you might get.

I do know that A Place For Mom, which owns this Forum and site, does help with explorations of CCRC community living, but I imagine only when one is ready for placement. I do wonder if they might be willing to help with the answer if you give a call. CCRC won't be interested in talking with you NOW flat broke, but once the inheritance is in (lest, as you say, something changes) they will be VERY INTERESTED in talking to you.

As you can imagine, interest in seeing you, helping you, providing answers to you grows with every dollar stuffed in your pocketbook. Once you are more ready everyone will give you all the answers you need whereas right now, once you say "flat broke", you will not be terribly attractive any more.

Will be interested in following this thread and seeing what you find out Gray. For myself, I often think that time between when you need independent living and when you need MORE is to short to bother with. I might consider locating myself in a nice, accessible studio where I can easily shop nearby and where I have access to transit to medical at some point until there is a need for ALF itself.

This is a question for a CCRC. We had a local one that was not part of a chain. The whole purpose is to be able to go from independent living, to Assisted Living to Longterm care all at the same place.

I would not enter into a contract with any of them without a lawyer involved. A friend was POA for a SIL in one of these places. She went right from IL into LTC. Friend got a bill for her care. The contract said something about 90k of the by in going towards the LTC or 90% going to LTC. So there should be no bills until that 90k/
90% is spent down then Medicaid is applied for. They messed with the wrong person. She knew what her SIL signed.

An article on CCRCs on this site* states: "Your state’s elder affairs department, office for the aging or housing authority can be a valuable source of information about CCRCs." Maybe those would be more helpful while you're at the information gathering stage.

Buy-ins sound a lot like purchasing a home; I did read a few months back that many finance their CCRC purchase by selling their existing home - there's a way a seller can hold the sale proceeds to transfer to the CCRC company. Or something...

Given the level of paperwork involved, I would doubt one location could easily be swapped for another. And the article mentioned that many CCRCs are privately owned, so there might not be an option to transfer to another state/location. And considering the cost, would Medicaid even cover anything?? I thought these were self-pay all the way.

The article is Continuing Care Retirement Communities Explained*. Happy researching and I hope you get to take that road trip!

GG, while CCRCs are a great concept, the ones with huge buy ins are far from perfect.

We found that for my mom, renting her a place in an Atria Independent Living facility was a good choice.

It provided 24/7 monitoring and someone always at the desk, planned activities and trips, restaurant style food, housekeeping and laundry.

If mom had continued to need only that level of "care", she could have picked up and moved. Sadly, she had a stroke and needed far more care

Have you looked at CCRCs that DON'T require a but in?

I posted the comment below (re-edited) in response to an earlier question, but it summarizes our experience in checking out CCRCs/CCCs. AlvaDeer, you are SO correct! The more dollars stuffed in your pocketbook, the more receptive these facilities are. Many, if not most in our area, are strictly self-pay (no Medicaid beds).

Continuing care communities (CCCs) are a great concept for those who can afford them. Unfortunately, like my spouse and me, many Silent Generation and older Boomers who retired from long careers in modestly compensated professions will find that they cannot.

Why not? Well, because, overall, we likely do not have enough resources to sustain $100K+/year for long term care, especially if needed for more than 2-3 years. (As a group, we'd better not spend much of our retirement savings before needing care or--worse yet--live too long!) We do NOT expect our adult kids to pick up any slack.

As we discovered when checking out facilities some years back, most CCCs have a hefty entrance fee, as well as a monthly fee and possibly additional fees for any "extra" care services. At one we liked, the introductory conversation was quickly concluded when we were told that we would need close to $1 million in convertible assets to qualify. Bye-bye CCC!

CCRC can imo be a minefield. There seems to be a difficult history on some being able to keep promises as the costs of health care are just so staggering.

here’s my experience with them: my Dads “Aunt”, no kids, named me Executor. Came as a surprise, but I was up for it and very much a learning experience. She had a home but had moved into a CCRC; a patio duplex within big property; slowly downsizing. It was all cash buy-in low mid6 (1990’s). Was touted as full buy in for carefree lifestyle. CCRC had patio/ garden duplexes, apts, AL sector, nursing care. Dining, pools. Mo. maintenance and security billed for her only as she didn’t need extra help. CCRC makes all decisions on grounds, access. Lots of scheduled outside activities. She moves in and arranges to have work done (painting, some patio concrete stuff, cabinets). All this b4 I’m ever a part of this drama. She has a fall, dies at around 4 mo in. Her attorney calls me to tell me I’m named Executor and do I want to, yeah sure.

Total hot mess. Learned a lot. CCRC was beyond difficult & controls everything. Worse than a HOA imho. All the work which hadn’t been started had to be completed but as she wasn’t there to do oversight, a staff had to be there and paid to be there. I could not stay there as not a resident. Or stay late. Ditto for any heirs. I’m still salty about it! And trying to sell it, CCRC footdragged on any buyers. They and only they determine if a buyer meets qualifying requirements. This part totally glossed over in how marketed imo. Nevertheless you have to do all to have it be market ready or they will and bill. And they were absolutely in zero hurry to review buyers. Every month billed maintenance, fees. Attorney had to send testy letters to get this ended. Apparently quite common, as empty units mean less work / less costs but still billed monthly fees. They have your buy-in. And getting a % of the unused buy-in was most difficult, basically you will have to be willing to litigate. But the big surprise was finding out paperwork to do her transfer from hospital to the nursing sector was declined. That it did only basic custodial care. Did referrals to SNFs and if better then could go back under basic custodial care with a La carte charges as needed. Not equipped for beyond that. That really it was a retirement community for those healthy and active or still pretty good on their ADLs and once your needs go beyond that, they will find a reason to have you exit. She died at the hospital. On retrospect, beyond fortunate.

Nowadays, decades later, buy ins are closer to $M and there will be set monthly charges and the speciality fees once on higher level of care. There really is no way, they can provided services from independent to nursing based on just the initial buy in $. You want to have someone knowledgeable review the contract and in detail, like an attorney.
Sinking your life’s savings and then finding there's an increasing monthly fee of 4-8% atop may not be manageable. Ask what the NH residents currently are averaging in their additional charges. Could be more than what a NH out in the countryside costs. I think there’s alot of smoke & mirrors in the marketing of them.

My mom lives in one that is month to month rent. She’s currently in an independent apartment but I know they also have AL and skilled nursing care. Maybe look for a place like that?

Also, my experience with A Place for Mom and the nursing homes they connected me with was that they were very happy to talk to me and answer questions without asking a lot of questions about finances. They do ask how soon you anticipate needing placement but I didn’t get the impression at all that they wouldn’t be interested if our need wasn’t immediate.

My Mom was in a CCRC but she did NOT buy in. She went directly to their AL after being sent to their SNF rehab from the hospital after a fall. After her Medicare and medigap covered stay she moved into the AL apartment. Her monthly rent/fee was much higher than if she had bought into the IL. [To buy in, she would have had to be in IL for a year prior to a move to AL (there was a required length of IL stay to qualify for the lower monthly rate charged to those who buy in and then transition to AL) and pay for private caregivers if extra care was needed while she met that requirement].
She could have left AL at any time with a 30 day notice to the facility. If you wait til you need AL and can afford a higher monthly fee this may be a more flexible option than a buy in.
She went to SN one more time after a hospital stay for pneumonia. Medicare/Medigap paid for SN and she continued to pay for her AL room to hold it while in SN.
When passing she was in her AL room with hospice visiting and she paid for full time private caregivers ( in addition to her apartment) as required by the facility. When I mentioned I was worried about her funds lasting 'til she passed to an administrator, she whispered to me that they had a non-advertised "benevolent fund" and she would not be put out if she ran out of funds.
Additionally, even though the facility said they didn't accept medicaid, her experienced elder-law attorney who also acted as guardian for some of his clients assured me that a facility would prefer medicaid payments to no payments for empty SN beds even though they said they didn't accept medicaid. They had a number of empty SN beds and as a resident she would have had priority over non-residents to be able to leave AL and go to SN if she had to.
Worst case scenario is she would have had to leave and apply for medicaid at another SNF. At that point it would not have made much difference to her as she didn't know where she was anymore during the majority of her hospice care.
Just telling you all this so that you can see it is possible to be in some CCRCs without buying in. Hers went through a bankruptcy while she was there and those who bought in were very scared. Fortunately for them after 9 months there was a buyer and not a foreclosure. My Mom would have been able to just pick up and go and we did not have to worry about her havng to get her money back out of the place.
She was there for almost four years which I think if you research it is an average timeframe for needing care before passing. She was able to deduct from her federal income taxes the medical expenses part of her AL rent/fee (the percentage/amount each year as determined by the facility and notice given to the residents). This can be done according to her accountant as long as the facility has a "plan of care" in place for the resident. The plan of care was adjusted annually or as needed.
Don't know if this is feasible for you but is something to consider before you commit to buying in. I know I will if/ when my husband or I need to find a place for ourselves.

Buy yourself a RV and Make some trips . Dad could be around for awhile . Do you Like Mountains or ocean ? What Kind of community or people do you want to be around ? Maine has Plenty of Places to Camp . Asheville , NC is a Nice Place . I traveled around the country and met people in RV's exploring where they would Like to live. Some People ended up Living in their RV. There are tiny home communities That are Popular with retired people - One is in Austin , Texas - they have a community Garden , Barn with arts and crafts , etc. I saw people Living In their RV's in St. Augustine , Florida they Looked pretty Happy to me . These senior Homes are expensive .

CCRCs are something I know a fair amount about. My parents were in a "high end" one and as another resident's daughter referred to it, it was ultimately "a predatory scam." This one drew people in through the amenities of the independent living, but they moved people (often against their will) into the "Care Center" (AL, memory, "skilled" nursing) where they were treated like inmates in a prison. All the promises of world-class-cuisine, top-notch service and amenities, elevating every resident's everyday experience, etc. went out the window. This was a Plan A CCRC, where there was a hefty buy-in price for "Life Care." In my parent's case -- once they bought in, they were effectively stuck there due to finances. I strongly advise people to avoid these Plan A CCRCs unless they are resident owned (I'm not sure there are any like that currently.) EVEN if it looks good when you buy in, it could change on a dime down the road as the owner-profiteers strive to maintain or grow profits.

That being said: There are various CCRC plans. This is a link to a pretty good article outlining them: https://mylifesite.net/blog/post/primer-ccrc-residency-contracts/
There are other good articles out there.

As for moving among those under the same umbrella ownership - that is a question for them, and MUST get codified in your contract. Most are set up as separate LLCs managed by one organization; they do this to conceal ownership and liability - because they are lovely people (kind of like the addiction promoting Sackler's, on a smaller scale).

Three last suggestions:
(1) Look for ones that are more rural, or in towns and smaller cities. The care providers will more likely be people who have lived in the area and are connected to some of the residents, thus tending to provide more personal and compassionate care.
(2) Look for ones that are run by spiritual organizations, such as the Brethren. If you are deeply and traditionally Christian (not part of the evangelical anti-Christ hate-full bunch), look at the Penney Retirement Community.
(3) When you visit, make sure to visit the care facilities and talk to a wide range of people who live in the community.

Personally, I would avoid CCRCs to maintain choice.

My advice on the traveling and relocating is to stick to states in the middle of the country or the south. The east and west coasts have high costs of living and even higher tax rates.

Base your decision on having amenities close by that you need as you age in place.

For example, don't choose a really rural location that doesn't offer appropriate services should you need transportation to doctor appointments or even grocery delivery services.

Google this sentence and see what you think about this type of lifestyle:

communal living for seniors in the us

Graygrammie: We've stayed put so far. Ten years ago, we sold our 2-story townhouse and moved to a 1-story 55+ manufactured housing community in the same area. We're still living on our own with occasional assistance from one adult son, a housecleaner who comes every other week, and periodic landscaping help. Especially post-COVID any kind of outside help is hard to find and expensive but likely costs less than a facility would.

It's working for now, but it's getting harder for me to "manage" a household (even of 2-persons + cat), do the grocery shopping/food prep, laundry, light cleaning and yard care, ensure that the bills get paid, etc. Up until the last couple of years I was on-task, but my back has decided it's done its duty long enough. Physical work, including walking which I do of necessity and for exercise, have become more difficult. My husband has minor (so far) short-term memory issues and can't do many household/yard maintenance tasks anymore, which is entirely understandable since he'll be 94 in a couple of months. So, sustaining our living arrangements and finding help are largely on me (86), and that is a source of ongoing concern as I experience age-related decline.

There are several IL/AL/SNFs near us, and if we end up living much longer, I suppose we may end up in one. I don't relish the prospect at all. However, we decided long ago that we would make every effort not to become a care burden on our family should we reach old-old age--which, to be clear, neither of us thought would happen for a number of reasons. In retrospect it's actually O.K. that we didn't have $1M to buy into the CCRC we visited some years ago. I think it was mostly bright and shiny marketing that initially attracted us--and undoubtedly many other older adults as well. I do wonder if those who qualified have realized all the benefits and amenities so glowingly advertised.

Igloo572: Love your casino analogy. You're SO right! Brimming-with-vitality, healthy folks in their late 50s-early 60s (maybe) with very white teeth, plenty of hair, ample self-tanner and the latest in "mature" fashion do the modeling for these ads. I'm sure that most CCRC residents in their 80s-90s look a lot more like my husband and me--and we don't resemble the models at all! LOL. Well, at least we're still a couple. . .

graygrammie: My sister in law bought into a CCRC well before the age of 65. I am not an advocate of one. I have zero knowledge involving a CCRC contract. Good luck.

Missymiss: Thanks for your suggestions. Yes, I do use a computer and I do order quite a few items online. Most of our bills are set up on automatic pay, but one or two are tangential to "cash on hand" so I pay them at my convenience. As far as grocery shopping is concerned, I guess I'm hopelessly old-school; I like to choose my own. I used grocery pickup and/or delivery during COVID and will do so again if there's another surge this winter.

Staying somewhat active and functional is important, at least to me. If I can't do anything at all, I might as well just shuffle off and be done with it. So, even though making a physical effort has definitely gotten harder, it's not impossible yet. Remaining functional for as long as I can seems like a reasonable objective.