How many of us are caring for elders with personality disorders like narcissism?

I'm glad to read your good news!

Last night, hours into my search for understanding, I found your post. You might have saved me from making the biggest mistake in my life, moving in with the 91 year old three year old that I've been parenting for decades. What? Sorry if that was confusing:)She's 91, I'm 66. And, yes, she's emotionally 3 and I'm feeling like 100. Thank you for shining a whole lot of light on my self-sacrificing (codependent) life. I got a grip! LOL If I've had such a hard time setting and keeping boundaries when we live miles apart, how was I thinking I'd do it from her guest bedroom?? When I wake up tomorrow, I'm turning her over to God (again) and focusing on myself and my recovery. Bless you all.

Yes, Mom should have been reported, but who would do that? We were isolated from family, and silenced into subjection. I didn't have a clue, but was scapegoat. Then one day, woke up. I'm just now seeing the bigger picture, and it's not a pretty one. I'm thinking avoidance is the best thing in this situation...

Mom loves to play the victim blames others for what she won't take personal responsibility for. She told a Geriatric Assessment team member recently, "I acted like I did because my children made me do it..." Wow! Is that telling or what? They congratulated me for my strength of character in the face of her extreme hostility. Somehow, God just helped me survive, and is helping me still.

Now, my goal is to protect my Dad from her further abuse, and my son from damaging contact with her. We've never left him alone with her, understandably. Thank God for his protection, and for the wisdom and insight he's given. Still on the learning curve, though.

We cared for mother out of love and duty, and by God's grace with compassion. She'll never understand that, but God does. We gave, even when she retaliated. It was the toughtest job I ever faced, caring for an ungrateful, belligerant soul. My biggest regret is the time it took from loving on my wonderful son. My distraction with her affairs meant his loss and mine, and much at our expense. We chose to give because dad could no longer take care of her, and had always looked after things for them. Someone had to take over, and I was the logical choice, as sis had/has her own issues. We couldn't just leave mom to her own devices, knowing she would mess things up. But since she's so argumentative, combative, and despising, let the PG care for her now and take the heat. I'll just be watching her, now. This is not a happy ending, but when one has done all they can, it's best to walk away and let someone else take over. So, we walk, with no regrets. Wonder if they'll experience what we have? Thanks for your kind understanding words and support.

Sounds like things had a happier ending in your situation. At least your mom came through for you at the last. That has to bring you comfort and reassurance. Wishing you a good 2010!

You have been nicer to your mother than most people would be and if you weren't related to her, you probably would have never had anymore to do with her which would be understandible too. I'm glad to hear that you have such a strong, rock the boat, pesonality. For some reason it seems that the youngest child almost always gets the brunt of things when it comes to mental illness in the home. Your mother should have been reported to protective services years ago, but now it seems that she's passed her social/psychological disease on to your younger sister. Just not the kind of star wars story that one would wish for and I've seen this same thing in my wife's family.

Funny you should direct your comments to the Wizard of Oz character. My thoughts have been there lately, too. Mom has earned a reputation for herself, and deserves it. Seems some are fooled by her still, though, which is baffling to me. How blind.

No one would accuse me of hiding behind my husband, in fact, we call me the "hit man" because I often head up the charge in matters. He's quiet and steady. I am the designated boat rocker, and have been since childhood. This never sits well with NPD/BPD, does it?

The anger I was talking about letting go of was against dad. With his Alzheimer's decline, it kind of just melted away. Strange phenomenon. What good does it do to hold on to? He is to be pitied, as his Alzheimer's is getting the better of him. Seems mom did, too, though I'm sure I'll never fully understand it.

As for mother, I am seriously considering how to combat her "Distortion Campaign," which I recognized, but didn't fully see until I read the book, "Stop Walking on Eggshells." Since mom wrote an 8 page letter full of lies to two Probate Court judges, accusing me of things not done, I'm feeling the need to practice the steps outliined in the chapter to counter mom's lies, distortions, rumors and smear campaign against me. Unfortunately, she has many people believing her, and her attorney has used this to their advantage. Even mom's PG said I need an attorney to protect me. But the one she referred me to said I did not. I asked mom's attorney if I needed one, and he said, "No one is accusing you of any wrong doing, then he turned around at mom's court hearing and used a conversation with my sister as "evidence" against me. My sister knew nothing of being a "witness" against me, so says she. But I find that hard to believe, as she turns on me often, too. What an ugly mess, and all created and kept going by my mother's personality disorders. What havoc she renders in the lives of those around her.

You're right about my sister taking the brunt. She was the youngest of two daughters, and got the worst of everything. She was more vulnerable, because I was away at school two years before her, with her left alone with mom's abuse. Mom once stripped her naked, put her outside, and said, "If you don't like it here, leave, taking nothing with you." Sis also said mom tried to kill her, pushing her down a flight of stairs. I find that incomprehensible, but knowing my mother, horrifyingly believable. Think of that millstone... The day we moved mom out of her home, mom hit her in the face, knocking off her glasses. Understandably, my sister is a bitter, troubled, vindictive soul, but unfortunately, can't be trusted, either. She is nice one moment, nasty the next, much like the woman who raised her.

My sister's only concern is acquiring all the antiques in mother's house, with mom's help, both saying I don't "deserve" anything. Boy are they a piece of work! We're talking valuable things, and covetous, greedy people, who care little for others. It's all about control, and they don't mind lying to do it. Nice family I grew up in, isn't it?

My battle is against their evil. Just not sure what I want to do with it. Seems they're bent on destroying me, no matter what the cost. Personal integrity means little to them, and they justify everything they do with lies about me. Seems outsiders would rather believe a lie than discover the truth, and water seeks its own level. How can one defend what is not observable?

Just glad I don't have to cater to mom's whims, unrealistic expectations and unreasonable demands any more. We are enjoying our freedom from her petty requests and constant criticism. We marvel how wicked a human being can be against her own spouse and offspring, and how few recognise it. Seems this battle is fierce and the dark side is winning. The more we did for her, the meaner she became. We did what we thought was right, just and fair, only to be punished for it. Strange dealing with Personality Disorders. In the end, we'll have no regrets for our Caregiving and serving my parent's needs. We did what we thought God would have us do.

Yes, I would definitlely not be alone with your mother and yoiur husband is really the best choice of people to have with you. A college friend of mine whose mother I thought was ok back then has told me of her mother's severe personality problems which did cause some damage to her, her marriage and to her children. Thus, she has cut off all face to face contact with her mother and severely limited any other contact.

Sorry, I got overly civil at the moment. The depth of your pain, your son's, and your husband sounds verly like way to deep to even consider civility at this point. Probably wouldn't hurt if you can afford it to get everyone in sort of a detox time of therapy to help recover from your mom. This is really the only personal way to survive being in a relationship with someone like your mother. It would also help in digging into those very good questions that you are asking.

My FIL was much like your dad also in that he did not protect his girls either. He told them once that he knew what was going on but was helpless to do anything. Actually, what your dad kept that your mom wrote supports my view of the abuser and the abusee. Very often it not always, the abuser is actually dependent upon the abussee, but the do not want that person to ever realize that. If and when the abusee wakes up to what is really going on and can stop walking on eggshells, then very often the abuser will melt like the wicked witch from the west in the wizard of oz. They will at first lash out with an unreal amount of furry, but if the abusee stands their ground the abuser's use of F.O.G. (fear, obligation and guilt) fails to suck them back into their abused and dominated place. For myself, I have learned enough about my FIL's early life to understand why is was the way he was. Instead of helping him gain strength and freedom from his family of origin bondage, his wife actually capitolized on it for her own ends which at the same time mouthing we live in a day of equal rights which he never had because he got in trouble even on father's day for ordering tea on his own.

I attribute my own survival to several things. 1. A Christian substitute family. 2. A doctor who told my mother to stay home and let me go play high school football. 3. Going to school out of state. 4. More recently, my doctoral dissertation helped me to wake up to what was going on around me. 5. Seven years of therapy. This is the condensed version and some things I'd rather not share in this venue.

Frankly, the more you focus upon your mother, the longer the anger will eat at you. As simple as this sounds but as tough as it is to do, it will be most helpful to focus your thoughts, time and energy on taking care of you and getting yourself as well as your family on a healthy path from here on for you didn't cause your mom's problems, you can't control them, nor can you fix them. And said to say but you can't fix your dad either. It sounds like form my memory that your sister, I think, got the brunt of your mother's impact upon her maybe more than you did.

Right now, I hear a lot of anger and hurt that is crying out to vent in a safe place which venting I'd suppose go further than what words can express here. If I were in your husband's shoes, I would not want to see your mother either. I'm glad he is supportive. However, please don't hide behind your husband's pants for this really is your battle with your mom. I've seen wives hide behind their husband's pants like a little kid and expect them to fight their battle for them. He can support you which is good and needed, but he can't do what only you can do and you can do it as you gain strength, convidence and some new tools over time.

BTW, in my MIL's opinion I was a bad influence upon my FIL. He started getting a bit independent toward the last part of his life and I was the one blamed for it. I've been blamed also for my wife taking more and more steps toward her own independence all of which I take as a compliment.

Truth be told, abusers are actually weak people and very often are hurt people who also hurt people out of their own stuff which they don't want to face but delight in dumping it on everyone else. My, my I fell like I'm preaching to the choir and have written more like a therapist than I intended to. Anyhow, I hope some thing in this long epistle helps you and others dealing with the same mess.

I appreciate your advice and perspective. No contact sounds good for all of us, except that I can't be alone with her...so hubby (and son) must be there. Just doesn't have to happen often.

Birthday? Holiday? Why spend time with an abusive cantankerous person? We won't if necessary. She burned up her dance card. All she does is complain, argue, and whine. No reason for any of us to be around her. My husband sure wouldn't if it wasn't necessary. I just saw it as my responsibility as guardian. Now I'm not. So...no birthdays, etc. If she wants to know why, I'll be happy to tell her that she can't see him because of the way she treats me. My husband will back me in that. What the purpose? We have "adoptive" and loving people who can fill the need for my son.

Thanks for your compassion towards my dad. I'm not sure what to think, though. Everything was so hidden. And he didn't defend or protect us girls. So...what am I to think? I recently found a letter from mom to him threatening divorce if the didn't meet her needs, claiming she knows she'd lose us in a divorce b/c he thinks she's an unfit mother. Boy, that is putting things in perspective. Found it in the back of his desk. Why'd he save that? And why did God allow me to find it, along with her diagnosis? Interesting! Some long-sought answers for me. A little vindication, as well. Helps to let go of some of the anger.

How about you? To what do you attribute your survival?

Your son is far too young to have the tools to deal with someone like your mom. For the sake of his sanity and yours, I would advise a no contact rule to help him regain some peace in his life. Then, after some time, I think I'd at least be civil and let her see him supervised for very short visits like birthday and holidays or whenever you choose. Remember though that the boundary thing is not to change the other person but to protect yourself and anyone under your care like your son. Whenever a boundary is broken it must be followed up with a concrete consequence that is stated as such without getting into an aurgument.

The pg sounds like a real looser and the lawyer or judge who set them up needs to know soon what is going on so that they can be replaced. The will probably be invited to a meeting, but just might not show up out of embarrassment. No they can't shut that house down, stop paying taxes, etc. In fact, they are now responsible for making sure your mother's taxes are filed each year on time and paid.

I'm glad you are enjoying your vacation and it is well deserved.

On good thing to keep in mind is once your mother dies, the PG's authority is gone and if you are the executor of your mother's estate, which I hope you are, then you will be in charge.

Yes, people who have not needed or had a substitute family just don't understand at all. For example, how can someone continue to be like a sister you never had ever since high school and is still that today? Well, some people just don't understand and never will. Others who needed such a family are the ones who lost out on a lot of possible help, but that was often due to how remote an area that they lived in and how ultra closed their family system was. Pardon me for saying so but I find some extreem Christian denominations and independents to often have such closed system with almost cultic type traits as well as hidden abuse right below the surface.

I feel very sorry for your dad and what he had to go through. His life sounds very much like my FIL who is dead, but was the most dominated, enslaved, etc. (I don't have any more words to define this), man that I've ever known. I'm glad you survived. It sounds like you were the survivor of your family more than anyone else.

Given what both of us have been through is why the Norman Rockwell view of Christmas just does not set well with me. It's only true of very few and even then I'm not entirely sure because no one's family is entirely perfect anymore than any one church is entirely perfect because of the condition of the human race since Adam and Eve.

My boy is nine, and his grandma has little opportunity or influence. Since we homeschool, and she was accusing me of abuse, my husband and son were always with me when caring for her needs, but now none of us has to be anywhere around her, except a short time on Christmas Day when she visited dad (her husband), but he was sleeping and didn't visit with her. I like to monitor her visits with him, because she's quite abusive to her husband as well. She rarely visits, except once a month or so, and the distance will be a welcome change from our weekly, or thrice-weekly caregiving visits. It's refreshing to know we don't have to do it anymore. Perhaps others wouldn't understand that. I figure I'll be hearing from her PG, as she needs lots of input/paperwork from me to take over mom's affairs. Right now, it's my Christmas vacation :) and well-deserved after four years of intensive labour.

I never paid a penny of their debt with my own funds, but only as fiduciary with their assets; about $98,000.00 worth in the last two years. Nice of me to do all that work, then get shot out of the saddle by an ungrateful mother, don't you think? The PG will get paid plenty to do the bare minimum, and it makes me mad, since I did 18 hours of work cleaning things up for the past two years. I'll be checking her financial records with a fine tooth comb. The PG said she'd stop paying taxes on the house, turn off the electricity and water (mom has an apartment now) and I screamed at my attorney about it. He said, "She can't do that, as they have considerable equity in the house." I'm expecting the PG will mess things us royally, leaving me to clean up somewhere down the road. I already know how she handles things, and it's entirely different than my philosophy: decently and in order. Mom will help her mess things up, I'm sure, because that's her nature. Dad had a terrible time all their married life. I've got stories about all that, as well. Very few are good ones, but we survived.

Again, sorry to hear about your dad. Sounds like God showed his lovingkindness to give you substitute parents, Psalm 27:10. He did me as well, and I'm closer to my "adoptive" ones than my own. Funny how that works, isn't it? Guess our trust and hope needs to be in God, not our earthly family. Just a thought, thought not all children grew up with abusinve parents. The ones who weren't can barely understand the ones who were, though. Do you find this also?

What is your son's age. It sounds reasonable to me to set a boundary there with consequences, like you don't get to see my son for say two weeks or so if you are verbally abusive of him.

I do not believe that technically or legally your mother can change her will now that she has a guardian because having one means that she has been declared mentally incompetent to conduct her own affairs in a businesslike manner. Check with a lawyer, but I beleive her days of doing legal and otherwise business are over.

No, her debt is not yours. The pg should be addressing her debt problem with her assests and getting a reputable debt reduction service to work with them in resolving that debt. If anything, your mother's debt upon her death will become your dad's if it is not removed before she dies. Please don't pay off anymore of her debt for that is not nor was it ever your responsibility.

My dad is a perfectionist and verbally abusive, but that is not the entire story of my journey which really does not belong on this thread, but could be shared by e-mail. God has been good to me in providing substitute parents as well as substitute siblings along my journey for me to be where I am today. My substitute family is still intact and I contact them from time to time.

Thank God for manly men, and for the gift your mother gave you. Abusers are usually wimps, just use their wicked mouths to intimidate, but God trumps the wicked, doesn't he? Sorry to hear about your dad. I'm sure I don't follow all that, but there must be a reason? So happy to hear your mother loves her manyly son, and has given you the authority you deserve. Life isn't always easy but when one lives for God, has its rewards. Congratulations!

I have my mother's will, but it wouldn't surprise me if she tried to change it. Fight I shall! (As she is not making wise decisions.) The PG's first act was to give mom a checkbook, to "buy prescriptions, groceries," etc. I can't imagine mom doing well with that, as she didn't manage cash well for the past two years. She lied and borrowed from friends, asking me to cover her expenses. Found out recently that I wasn't responsible for mom's debts, but paid them. If I hadn't, perhaps her friends would have gotten a clue. I only paid them once, and told them I wouldn't cover mom's debts to them again; that if she wanted something she was to ask me, not them for money. They pitied her and bought her tons of food and stuff anyway, calling me abusive and stingy. Responsible was more like it, as mom owes $10,000.00 on a mortgage she signed for. But that's no longer my responsibility, or is it? Half is in dad's name, so he has a vested interest, I believe, even though he's on Medicaid. Not sure how this works so look forward to conferring with an Elder Law specialist...

You'd be amazed by the godly men in our church. Pastor was special forces, and a black belt in Tae Qwon Do. He's teaching self-control to our kid as well as many others, and runs a biblical church. Our Nursery Director/preacher, State Police Trooper runs a tight ship keeping order, and both homeschool theirs. The deacons are raising godly seed, three preachers, and talented girls who are skilled in song, piano, teaching, etc. who have a bus route and nursing home ministry. We are blessed beyond measure, and they are wonderful to be around. Anyway, that's a rabbit trail from Caregiving. It is these people to whom I go for godly counsel and encouragement (besides that which I get here). God is good all the time!

My husband is guardian for his 90 year old declining dad with Vascular Dementia. His dad's easy compared to dealing with my mom's personality disorder. My dad is well-cared for at the nursing home, which frees me to pursue auxillary matters. There are plenty, as you surely are aware. Caregiving is more than just hands on, and we're so blessed to have help with that part. It frees us to enjoy our weekly, and sometimes daily visits with both dads. They smile when they see us coming, and are either tired or sad to see us go. Their nine year old grandson is the other bright spot.

My mom is real abusive towards me, but wants to hug my son. Since I'm not longer her guardian, and not under her manipulative control, I have thought to tell her, "No hugging my boy, if you won't be nice to me." After all, why should I trust her with him, if I can't trust my own mother with me? It's sad, but we need some sort of boundaries, and I sure don't want to sacrifice my son to a mean-spirited, bitter mother. Any thoughts?

In light of what having a guardian means, she has already broken her responsibilities by treating your mother as if she were competent to manage her own affairs by giving her that checkbook. One of our friends is going through a bad guardian right now and having him replaced. Interesting enough, the mom's favorite son who could never do anything wrong is not managing her money at all with so many bills unpaid to the nursing home, etc. along with losing the home owners insurance on her house due to failure to pay and now it costs so much more to have a new policy. The judge has temporarily given guardianship to the daughter whom has never had a good relationship with her mother, but is the responsible one.

I'm glad to hear the lion gaining strength in your tank. BTW, have you found your mother's will. Trust God to guide you to a good Elder Law attorney and use the means provided to protect your mother, ah, sort of like the apostle Paul used his Roman citizenship as a legal means of protecting himself a couple of times. Don't back down and just let the PG take anything. Hold them to the letter and requirements of the law. Send the bull atty in if you have too.

Thank God, you have "two Christian manly men who aren't afraid to call a wolf a wolf, and are willing to defend me and my mom and dad." From what I have seen in churches, this is a rare quality among Christian men now a days. I do believe you are in a more powerful position as an advocate for your mother than you were in a more personalized position. The few that I have met were most helpful in protecting me as their pastor and other church members from the wolves of the congregation.

I'm personally feeling much better since finding my mother's will this month and reading the strong language she used in declaring me as the executor and sole inheritor of her estate. That helps some with the pain of my dad wimping out and letting my stepmother dominate him into cutting me out of any involvement in his life at 85 or his estate when he dies. At one time, I use to think he was a manly man, but several years ago I saw him wimp out and for the first time ever, I appeared more of a manly man than him, but now he has totally wimped out. So, I don't want to hear anything more from him about calling me a mommy's boy or my mother wanting to raise me on a pink pillow. Thank God, I'm past all that now.

Thanks for your input. You know I have a long way to go on the learning curve, as some of you are much further ahead, but I do thank you for your input and suggestions. Of myself I can do nothing, but I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me (sometimes he uses others to encourage).

Yes, Sir, the PG is mom's new guardian. I no longer have to have anxiety moments thinking of a visit to her place. Trying to serve doesn't bother me, but anticipating her abuse when doing so does, so now we can relax and hope the PG does a good job. If not, I'll petition the court for a better one. I already question the decisions she's made (giving mom a checkbook again) but no one is willing to listen to me when I tell them how bad an idea that is. Like mom will suddenly make good decisions with your money. They've given her freedom she can't handle, but will soon see the error of their decision. Guess they think they know better than the person who knows mom best. Her Psychiatrist is a total ninkcompoop, but fortunately some reliable Geriatric professionals have correctly diagnosed mom both in the past, and even recently. I hope those trump cards work favorably should they become necessary.

Mom's attorney will not work favorably with me, but was very antagonistic and damaging to me. That is his reputation, so I'll not worry about it at this point. Let his deeds speak for themselves, and we'll see how things go. I have a former Special Forces Pastor and a MSP Trooper in my corner, and the name of a bulldog attorney with large fangs if need be. Hoping that won't be necessary. Our State Trooper friend told me to not let mom's attorney or PG intimidate me, and that gives me strength. Knowing he'd be there for us at a moment's notice helps, too. He would fight for me if necessary. I thank God for two Christian manly men who aren't afraid to call a wolf a wolf, and are willing to defend me and my mom and dad. If God be for us, who can be against us? Still, we have to contend with a worldly system at times, including slick lawyers and judges. So, I must rest in the power and promises of God, and in the protection God has given.

Feeling better knowing that mom's power to manipulate me is nullified by her next target. I can talk and walk as bold as a lion if need be, and not worry about false charges. I'm just a daughter now, looking out for an ailing daddy's interests. I'm peripherally concerned for mom, without the responsibility, and will protest any lack she has due to a broken and corrupt system. Yeah, for a position as advocate, and not a target for complaint and criticism! Let the PG take that...and my sister who is looking to score and early inheritance, while trying to condemn me for trying to protect mom and dad's estate from her covetousness. I'm get to be the watchwoman on the wall, and dad's help in time of need. Will also be seeking the opinions of a good Elder Law attorney for dad and mom's protection. Thanks

SecretSister,

It sounds like you have a wonderful new start and fresh perspective for the new year already! That is wonderful to hear.

I gather PG means personal or professional guardian. Such a person is required by law to submit detailed reports about how they spend the money of the person they are being guardian of. Would your mother's attorney help you or could you find another attorney. Legal advice is always good to get face to face.

This has been an interesting thread. I appreciate all the suggestions by seasoned ones who've "been there," and survived. I am growing towards that position, in that a lot has changed recently. Mom now has a PG, and I'm free to be disentangled from her manipulations, by having to meet her daily needs and unrealistic expectations and demands.

Bought the book, "Stop Walking on Eggshells," and find such good info there. Thanks for the suggestions (from other threads as well) to read it. Also purchased the books: "Meaning from Madness," and "Tears and Healing," by Richard Skerrit. The former being very good, and looking forward to the latter... Reading "Meaning" and the "Eggshell" ones, as well as the astute counsel from others has encouraged me to act from a position of strength.

Having mom out from under my skin helps me not react, but regain my stability and focus. I'm no longer dreading the next phone call from her, but actually look forward to it. I feel I can speak with boldness, addressing her tirades, now that I don't have to answer false charges of abuse as her Caregiver. I will remain as my dad's guardian and conservator, protecting him, 1/2 the estate as possible, and am free to give the majority of my energies back to God's service for my nine year old and husband and as God directs. My needs were on the back burner, as mom's constant demands pulled me that direction. I knew it was temporary, thank God, and thank God that I have some semblance of serenity and strength back from the black hole of mom's mental illness. Let her PG deal with that. I'll just look after my own family's well being, thank you. I think I'll like this arrangement better.

We are hoping the new PG doesn't take all her assets "away," as I'll have that battle to contend with. Who knows what damage they can do undetected for the next year? So, I pray a hedge of protection around my mom, their estate, dad's 1/2 interest in it, and my sister's and my future inheritance. Should be interesting. Though temporal, I still want to be a good steward of what God has entrusted me with. Pretty sure mom's PG and attorney could care less about the spiritual aspect of things. Only wish I could find some legal counsel to walk us through... We thank you for your suggestions and prayers. Hope all is well with all of you.

Praying you all have a wonderful start to the new year, and a fresh perspective for 2010. Thanks, SS

Imw124, I found one statement to be particularly interesting. "I am trying to keep peace with my sister, as that is the only place where I can live now, had to give up the apartment as I am broke from her talking me into overspending and I am on disability."

In your statement you say from her talking you into.... sweetheart, she can't make you do anything when you allow her to do it. That was a choice you made based on whatever points.

The important point is it is never too late to set boundaries. With our parents getting older, there are a lot of fears that go on because there are some drastic changes in lifestyle and myths that hang around about nursing homes, etc.

I think its important that you define what a mental problem or seek the assistance of a doctor/mental health professional. It is a very fine line to cross as we deal with our elderly parent.

Just remember that we still owe our parents to HONOR them, but we do not have to be a doormat. How each of us chooses to honor our parents is an individual choice. Do the best that you can and do it with a heart of compassion.

Take care of you and there's always someone here that will have a heart that joins you.

Bless your heart, lmw124. Praying here for you, too. Take care.

I certainly sympathize with you Imw124. But sometimes you have to say this is too big for me while I am dealing with my own health. I am sure the nurses are on to her so just intervene when it is absolutely necessary. Please take care of yourself. You will be in my prayers my prayer list grows daily which is a good thing.

I have lived for the past five years with my mother, up until last month when my sister and I had her put in the nursing home after she had several falls in her apartment. I am on disability and have some mobility problems myself, and I was not able to help her get back up when she fell, every time we had to call the
ambulance. She was waking up at night thinking there was someone out in the parking lot waiting to pick her up to go somewhere. It was a mistake to not have her on assisted living when we moved to be closer to my sister, but we wanted the larger apartment with two baths, that's was lured me into it.
She definitely has manic/depressive disorder. The first year after we moved she was very depressed, she had had a boyfriend that was very close to her that had recently died just before we moved. She missed the friends she had left behind in order to be closer to my sister. But, she would have spells where she would get on the phone, want to make travel reservations to go visit friends across the country, want to order
concert tickets without knowing how she would get there, etc. She had a lot of this manic behavior while her boyfriend was still alive, and would make travel plans and try to sneak him out of the nursing home, even though he was progressively losing his memory with Alzheimers. Anyway, now that she is getting better in the nursing home and able to get around better and had physical therapy, she thinks she can now go out and live on her own, even without assisted living, and trying to talk the workers in the nursing home into letting her walk without hanging on to her walker. The workers catch her trying to stumble around her room without her walker in the nursing home. Now she is locked in a power play with my sister over being in the nursing home and wants her property back that is stored at my sister's. I am trying to keep peace with my sister, as that is the only place where I can live now, had to give up the apartment as I am broke from her talking me into overspending and I am on disability. This is enough now for me to have mental problems in addition to health problems.

Thanks, neon. Mitzi, often your cents is worth more than two. You're both right.

My two cents is that sometimes we just need to quit focusing on the problem. Set our boundaries, and give it to God. It is not about being silent when you set the boundaries. But sometimes when we talk too much, we can talk the problem into existence, and if not that bad (not saying our NPD parent's are not), but it can make it worse and bring life to just the words.

So I try not to dwell on it. What I have discovered is that there are times I go to the top of the mountain in the best that I can do. Mom is ALWAYS going to find a new level (even as we speak). It is just something that is part of life.

The key is I do not have to accept it. I pray for mom, get her the help that I can (a counselor at this point), and pray that mom makes her choice and "chooses" to change.

Beyond that, I have to live my life and answer to God for it. No one else can be a part of that. I realize I cannot get blood from a stone (even for mom at 78 yrs old), and I have a Daddy (God), who knows me best and provides in ways that mom never can.

Great news!! :)

You got it seetheart, unfortunately people think they are in control LOL NOT! Give it to God do not worry. cling to your stabilizers you know sometimes even tho men like a strong woman they need to be needed to not a hanger on just a snuggle a I love you I need you to hold me something like that. I am having a bad day and you're what i need to make it better, It make them feel like you are not so deep in cregiving someone else but that they are an important part of your life, Men are not so different from woman and there is a man at my church everytime I talk to him he has to insert well with the women I've dealt with, so finally this past Sunday I said you know what? I'm sick of your conversation about women, first you don't know me, second I've been married to my husband for 38 years, and as far as I'm concerned you aren't a man you are just another person so stop it already. I hope he got the poiint.

aha a v8 it is also a light bulb moment ey? You're on the right path you're learning bits and pieces. Rome wasn't built in a day I think it took centuries LOL. /take some time for you go to calgon country paint your nails play your favorite music, have a cup of peach or green tea. R E L A X SIT IN THE SUNSHINE, TALK TO THE lORD WE HAVE RELATIONSHIPS HERE ON EARTH AND WE TALK TO EACH OTHER WHEN YOU SPEND TIME TALKING TO gOD YOUR RELATION SHIP GROWS AS WELL AS YOUR KNOWLEDFE hE KNOWS WHATS GOING ON IN YOUR LIFE, Sorry just looked up and caps were on not shouting stupid broken finger still hasn't healed LOL anyway I love you and so do lots of others we are here for you and for once listen to your hubby He loves you lots.

Bless you both. Neon, I have learned to rely on you to be a little "wocky," and a kind friend. You also make me smile, and even laugh at time. Thank you.

Sir Crowe, I think I will be OK. God let me know he has not forgotten me. Remember, I also know he has not forgotten me. It's just the grief, the fear of the unknown, fatigue, sorrow, etc. have had their effect as well. I am going to land well, because I have in the past, and have all the love and support from so many who the Lord has sent. It's just I am not able to see it every second of the day. I sin, by my lack of faith. But I also know God understands.

My husband just took a drive. Before he left he told me, and I wrote it down: "Extricate yourself from the destabilizing influences, and associate with stabilizing influences." He would be one of the stabilizing ones, and my nine year old wonderful son. And God's greatest gift of all, His son. Beyond that, I have a host of friends and family who love and care for me. I am truly blessed. Some moments I just can't see it. 51 years of grief, and the last few years of additional grief, and a newly revealed diagnosis of my mother's condition have all come together and sometimes, sometimes it feels overwhelmingly intense.

Breaking point? I think God is preparing me for deliverance, and disentanglement. I think God has a firm hold on my life, and knows my every tear and the cry of my heart. He has not, and will not forsake me. Breaking point? Perhaps I need that. Perhaps it's me just not letting go, and letting God be God. Perhaps it's just me trying to hold on to justification, anger and bitterness. Like Paul, perhaps it's just time for me to say, "I die daily." I say I trust in Christ to take me to heaven, but it seems I fear to trust him with my emotions and my daily affairs. Epiphany time.

Hey neon, "I could have had a V8." LOL

He doesn't keeping up appearances does not a christian make, God knows their hearts and won't they be surprised when he says yur name is not written in my book. My mother always played my sister against me and vice versa, I wonder how she justifies the things she has done. she appears to be at peace and has no regrets what so ever and always tells me what a good mother she was, She must be trying to convince herself cuz it sure don't convince me. I am a mother and I know what kind of mother I have been not perfect but always encouraging, loving and giving teaching and exploring and the proof as I say is in the pudding.

SecretSister,

I hear your pain and it sounds like you are at a breaking point. One of the best definitions of BPD is they have the ability to create a tornado and then step inside of it as if they were the victim. Now while I may be wrong using the label borderline personality disorder,but from what I'm reading it is either that or narcissistic personality disorder which is very similar.

My suggestion once to someone to look for an online support group specifically for someone in a relationship with someone who has a personality disorder was not to silence the person or send them away, but to offer a resource that I've found useful. For example, at BPDCentral.com, there are several online groups to chose from. For example, A group for people age 18 and over who have or who had a parent with borderline personality disorder. I would think this group would be a possibility for an adult child of an aging parent or parent in law whom we think or know has borderline personality disorder. The other groups connected to that site are for people either staying married to or leaving someone with BPD or parents whose children have BPD or a sibling of someone with BPD. While there are books like surviving the Borderline Parents that's for adult children and other books like Stop Walking on Eggshells, what I'm hearing from you is that things are the past the point of reading anything and the more support you can find from people who understand "in real time' what it's like to relate with such sick individuals is what your heart is crying out for.

Yes, we are taught to keep silent and it enraged my mother in law greatly that my wife even spent time talking with a teacher in elementary school for fear that the truth might get out. Like myself, we are taught to not really pay any attention to our own needs for we are to be focused on others entirely and we learn to swallow our feelings, etc.

I've seen the sister game where one tries to stay the good child and paint the other as the bad one that mom is right to be angry with. I've also seen the game where they make their spouse and children endure their BPD parent for the sake of getting an inheritance one day and excuse it all by saying they were too afraid to stand up to their sick parent because you know how mean they can be while the rest of us put up with the dam meanness. Go figure how a spouse and mother can justify that in her head, not to mention the collarteral damage to her marriage and children which no inheritance is worth nor will repair. And I'm talking about very religious people who read their devotionals and Bibles every morning and every night, go to church faithfully and my mother in law is a pastor's child, and they are all so __ concerned about appearing normal when they are not. How the love of God can abide is such sick people, I do not believe.

secret sister my heart goes out to you I am seasoned as have taken care of all inlaws to boot it ran a gamet of cancer diabetes heart problems strokes alzheimers and of course my mother who is narcissistivc and many broken hips. I understand fully what you are saying. Remember this one thing. Please... some get their reward on earth others get their reward in heaven. if you aren't already go to your nearest Church of Christ listen to what they say become a christian and you WILL get your reward in heaven I promise you read Acts chapter to it was true then it is ttrue today God Bless and keep you in His tender care. love neon

Thank you, sir. I hesitate, even here, to share personal details. I have seen posts where people ask us to "go to a site specifically for mental illness." It seems they may be uncomfortable reading this type of drama, and wish to banish or and limit our free expression. Common in today's age. At the same time, since these are our parents, and in our care, they are also protected individuals, where discretion and sensitivity are factors to consider. Mental health sites have a different flavor, and don't necessary focus on the needs those of us who are now caring for our aging parent or loved one, with the additional challenge of a lifetime of...challenges; and challenges that others may never understand. So, again, thank you for starting this thread.

Many of us, who have taken on the responsibility of caring for our parent or loved one, have the job of trying to manage our own conflicting emotions, both past and present, and trying to meet the needs, and often unreasonable demands and expectations of the one we are caring for. This is often a most difficult, and sometimes impossible task. And it's familiar for those who don't have the additional challenges of mental disorders to deal with. But for those of us who do, it can be especially challenging. Those of you who do, know exactly what I mean. Caregiving is difficult, regardless, and sometimes impossible where mental illness controls every detail.

I think of God's Word: When my father and mother forsake me, then the LORD will take me up. Some days, I wish God would just step in and do the seemingly impossible for us. Perhaps he tries, and I'm just wrestling with him. I have been given a task and some challenges. I have done all I can think to do to meet those challenges, and have asked for help from many different individuals. Things are now at a point where outside entities will take over. Believe me, they do not know what they are in for. And the thing that is hardest for me, is that they don't care to understand, and are fooled into thinking things are not "as bad" as I've attempted to portray. Professionals are often too busy, distracted, or sometimes uneducated and/or unaware of the depth of the challenges we face when attempting to care for someone with a mental disorder.

We were taught to keep silent. My parent is trying to silence me still; fearing detection above all. The sad thing is, she's attempting to do so with false accusations, so as to discredit me so the issue is clouded, and the focus is on me, not on her needs for care. And she has found many willing to aid her attempts to "save the victim from her oppressor." It is maddening to be an adult, and still ruled and manipulated by this tyrant. Even my sister, who suffered probably far greater indignities in childhood than me, has joined Mom in her cause to both convict and silence me. (She has an inheritance to protect.) People who once were cival and pleasant, now avert their eyes and thinly veil their suspicions or contempt. Mom has "won" the coveted prize: to discredit and malign me. Mom has told me more than once: "You volunteered for this!" Yep, at the request and insistance of others, and at my own expense, and perhaps my own demise. What was I thinking??? I now suffer the consequences for making that choice. Like I wrote earlier, I'm still paying the price for being born, because that was also a terrible, "punishable offense." I am at the mercy of God and "the system." I pray for mercy and grace.

SecretSister,

What you described is classic and almost as if it were right out of the book "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me" They can wear their masks for they know how to do normal, but at home they let loose and go into their irrational rages. This personality disorder is a social/psychological disorder that may have some biological predisposition toward it, but it is basically a learned way of relating with the world.

Psychiatrists tend to be a dime a dozen. Some are not up to date and some don't know diddly about borderline personality disorder or narsissitic personality disorder and thus would not know how to recognize one if it met them. They would probably misdiagnose as something like bipolar one, anxiety disorder or undesignated mood disorder. High functioning borderlines are the most deceptive with therapist, psychiatrists and themselves.

Yes, you are the current scapegoat as is my sister in law whom my mother in law tells she is a no good daughter and runs her daughter down all over town. Also, she does not like her husband (what's new there?) and she is still mad at me for stealing her daughter. Most men with a mother in law like mine would have split the scene long ago. I've learned to keep my stories from my friends unless they are knowledgable about mental illness. At 52, I'm tired of walking on eggshells but there are stories in my basket that I just don't tell everyone for like you have experienced who would believe them.

Take care

Thanks for that confirmation. What's troubling is, she's told me all my life that I'm the problem, and now she's telling everyone else. An even greater problem is that they believe her. I live a life of quiet and not so quiet desperation. No one would believe what we go through who haven't experienced it. Only a husband or children who have suffered the devastating effects really know what others can not see.

Lately I've exposed the truth to some who refuse to accept what I'm saying about our situation. They tell me they don't believe me, support my adversary, then become one to me, too. It's almost as if I'm living in the middle of a nightmare, with no end in sight. I know that sounds melodramatic, but it's one way to describe the way it feels. I made a mistake the other day of telling Mom I love her, and asking for a hug. She hugged me, then started screaming.

I have sought help for mom from 8 health care professionals, and each time am dissatisfied at their missing the crux of the situation. I know what I'm seeing, and just can't seem to find help for her. She is so manipulative and practiced. I marvel how she can do it. I just got a letter in the mail from her Psychiatrist. He never even mentioned anything remotely close to what led us to him in the first place. Fail! And we're still fumbling in the darkness, waiting for the final curtain. If she had her way, she'd say, "Off with her head!" Mom thinks all will be well if I weren't in the picture, because I'm the current scapegoat. Unfortunately, her problems will continue, whether I am in the picture or not. I grieve.

SecretSister,

What is up with how she treats her family in secret is how her disorder works. My experience with my mom is why I think it took me so long to get married.