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My dad had successful surgery a couple weeks ago and is in rehab at a very nice nursing home. He is physically strong for 87, but has dementia and his manic/depressive/egotistic/delusions of grandeur personality is as bad as ever. The nursing home dropped the pay-down to medicaid bomb on me - 5 years of all records etc. $8,000+ per month etc.
Question: What if I just didn't pick him up from rehab? What would they do? I've put myself in a lather trying to figure out where to put him. What if I just left him there? I'm not bringing him home. I simply don't want him anymore. I'm sorry - I don't want him around me. I don't want to care for him. I'd be just happy if they kept him and liened his property and social security etc. I don't mind that - it seems they'd do that anyway. Would they put him in a car and bring him to my doorstep? Would they just keep him and apply for medicaid themselves? What would they do? Does anyone know?

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Your children are your priority - follow your gut and your heart.
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"...has dementia and his manic/depressive/egotistic/delusions of grandeur personality" - in in other words, he's mentally ill. People with families, like the OP, should not expose their children to unpredictable mental illness 24/7. If she has POA, the OP can sell off his assets to pay for his care. If no one has POA, she can advise Adult Protective Services that he needs a public guardian. With a public guardian who charges a fee, assets are only spent as needed and if there is anything left over, heirs inherit it. You can still visit your relative, you are just not responsible for their money nor their care. It's a good hands-off way to handle abusive elderly.

Dave Ramsey, in talking about a similar situation on his Christian radio program about money, recently said, "You can love the dog all you want, but if the dog reaches out and bites you when you pet it, you should stay away from the dog." I go a little further and say that if that dog bites you when you come close, you are tempting the dog to sin. Since I don't want to induce anyone to sin, I am going to stay far away even from the dog I love who bites me. Yes, just so I don't give him the opportunity to sin.

Honoring a parent can be making sure they are taken care of, it does not mean loving them, a hard concept to grasp if you were not an abused child yourself. Dennis Praeger had an excellent article about honoring mother and father in Dec 14. BlueRidge, you have asked a fine question that deserves thoughtful answers.
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This post was difficult to read. The fact that dad is 87 and physically in good health coming out of a successful surgery. He would not be a candidate for a nursing home. I would arrange help in the home for him as he finishes healing from the surgery. Allow him to live in his home, if you are there you need to leave the home given your desire to move on and not be around him. If he has other family members try to get them involved overseeing his recovery from surgery. Although millions of elderly Americans are on their own when they are discharged from hospital or rehab, they manage or don't on their own.

Just because you don't care to be around him isn't enough of a reason to put him in a nursing home if he is "physically strong".

I don't know understand the resentment in the post but it sounds like you need to move on and out. Good luck to both of you.
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blueridge: hugs to you. Your first priority is your family. My guess is dad does not really care about them, very little, or it is or was feigned. My guess is he's a narc, and has been his entire life.
Time to hand him off and don't buy the 'but he's your daaad' routine.
best of luck
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sounds like it is time to hand over the responsibility to the professionals, step back and start looking after yourself. If you refuse to take him back, saying you are not able to care for him - say so, stand your ground to whoever, and then they are obliged to find a placement for him.
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Great example of why one should never sign and accept responsibility for someone else.
If you signed him into the rehab your screwed.
If not, it the hospital sent him: Say keep him and tell them to contact his lawyer (and tell give your lawyer a heads up)
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After reading all the comments and advice I have nothing to add except my support. I believe you are doing the right thing by trying to take care of yourself. You deserve a life. Hang in there and God Bless you.
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Wish you could give your father a cell phone that has a busy signal. Sounds like paranoia. Meanwhile, read all the articles on dealing with the dementia (demon-tia?). They will help you to realize that it's not personal, although, it's hard not to think this way. My last visit to my Aunt did not end well, because, I did take it personal. If I had stopped to think about that idea for a minute I would not have left so abruptly. Guilt, anger, resentment, frustration, etc. will get you down. It's all a part of the deal and there's nothing to like about it. Thank goodness for this site! It's like having a cheering squad or a best friend to lean on.
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I only spoke with one place in Queens, who stated a studio started you're right I was mistaken at $3,000 for a studio . Then you add on for every thing they need assistance with. As I said it is only a solution for the very wealthy.No help for the middle class who worked their entire lives. Too rich for Medicaid, the system is awful and as the baby boomers start aging out it is only going to get worse.
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Wait there are Adult Homes in NY that charge 1500 but that is for a shared room.
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I assist people with finding care so I am aware of the cost. To be honest there is no community in NY, that costs 1500 unless its in the Buffalo area. In the 5 boroughs the cost is at least 2700 just for the apartment that is without level of care charges. On Long Island its about 4000 per month.
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The assisted living are extremely expensive starting in NY at $1,500 a month for a studio. If they need to monitor their medication it's $700 more a month and so on. When they say assisted living you pay a high premium for everything they assist them with. Unfortunately this nature of care is a solution only for the wealthy.
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Blue Ridge I applaud your courage to know that you can longer take care of your father. Can he afford an Assisted Living Community ? They can help coordinate a smooth transition from the rehab facility to a community. Most of the Assisted Living Communities have meals, laundry and housekeeping so all of that will be taken off your hands. The Personal Care Homes are usually less expensive than the larger communities.
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I have the same going on except it's with a husband who's only 61 that I left 15 years ago. We were together since I was 15. We have 2 grown sons together. When I left he completely abandoned his kids. I raised them myself. I ran with the clothes on our backs due to his drinking. He had no one. Being foolish I left him the home we bought together which he did pay off. He is now in a nursing home with dementia brought on by drinking. I have gone to meeting to make sure he is getting proper care. They are applying for Medicaid but are giving me a problem with him signing the house over to me which is allowed or else Medicaid will take it. I don't have the resources to psy the taxes and insurance on it until whenever. I want the house or the money it brings for him. They're acting like I'm trying to steal my own home.
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Operative phrase "...I've done all that I'm capable of doing". Your brother will have to accept this. I think you would feel much less stressed if he accepted this fact about his sister. If he doesn't, is it possible you both could chip in to hire weekend help? Both of you need a physical and emotional respite.
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@ fedup - as blueridge says - you have done all you can. Time to look after you and decrease your stress levels. Some people paint themselves into a corner. You watch it happening, try to prevent it but you can't. My mother has ended up in a geriatric psychiatric hospital totally isolated, by her choices. I am in the background and look after her finances, and see that she has what she needs - at arm's length. Eve that isn't easy.You can't do anything right for a narcissist, so you do what you think is the right thing and leave it at that. You probably have a life time to recover from. You are making the right decisions - protect yourself. I wish I had figured that out sooner. (((((((hugs)))))
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Don't feel horrible. You've done all you can. The sad fact is that many people die sick and miserable.
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I completely understand what you are going through. My father has a softball sized meningioma brain tumor. His doctor told him that he would eventually become bedridden and a vegetable if he didnt have surgery. He chose not to have anything done. He has been very mean, mentally abusive and never satisfied with anything. I can't do anything right. He has a live in girlfriend who cant either. He hadnt bathed in months and wouldnt accept our help when we tried. He was constantly spitting everywhere and never washed his hands after using his urinal. I cant deal with this!! He was constantly calling 911, the FBI and the CIA. My brother and I put him in a nursing home because he was starting to require more care than we could handle, as we both work full time jobs. We thought we'd be nice and leave him with his cell phone. He has begun calling 911, the FBI and the CIA again so we had to take it away from him. I don't know what to do anymore. I've done all that I'm capable of doing. My stress level is extremely high and I don't sleep well. My brother thinks I don't care because I have distanced myself somewhat. I DO care but have to protect myself too. I only have this one body. I feel horrible for how I feel. Any advice?
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I don't have any sort of agenda. I'm just tired of him. Tired of him before he got old and more tired of him now that he is old. My other responsibilities rank higher - school-aged children, spouse, demanding job, mortgage, my own health etc. I don't have the time or energy to keep him company all day and cater to his needs. I only get 24 hours in my day and I have 30 hours worth of stuff to do even before you add him into the mix. It's time to pay others to do this I guess. Thanks all.
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Honor thy parent dies NOT mean wait on them hand and foot!

Let the professionals take care of your Dad..
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Thanks to all who wrote beautiful, thoughtful and thoutfilled notes of encouragement. Isn't there a saying about walking in someone else's shoes...Lets all continue to support and uplift each other. The world is difficult enough.

God Bless you all...and Big Hugs

Marylee
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I have a mother who's a malignant narcisist, has dementia, and I stay Away. I applaud you Blueridge, for havin' the nerve to post this and take on all the MORONS. I totally support you as a lifelong abuse survivor, and I bless you. I remember as a child, no one believed me, but I believe you. Take care.
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I really can't answer this question with much knowledge. I know I had my Mom in an ALF in NC for a while until they found out she was not eligible for MEDICAID and they gave me two weeks to get her out. I wanted to just leave her there and I was told that they would discharge her to my last know address (don't know if that was true). They sent me a bill for over $10,000 (not paying it). Good luck and I feel your pain. I have my Mom with me and would like to just take and leave her someplace. My Mom has dementia, COPD, hypertension, diabetes, CHF, and only God knows what else. Everyday...all day something hurts. To all of us dealing with elderly parents, may God bless us and give us the strength to make the long haul with our parents.
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I agree with you Bellas, but I also agree (and I'm sure you do too) with Lizann that the idea on its own of an 87 year old person "having no one who wants him" is an extremely sad thought.

How that came about is a different question, and what to do about it is another question again. But the other really important point is that BlueRidge is sad about it too - not being able to provide home care for someone is not the same as not caring about him at all.

And it is crucial for elders' safety and wellbeing that we each of us recognise when we've got to the end of our rope, and admit it, and do something about it. Whited sepulchres in this context would be very dangerous indeed.
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@Lizann… beating people up with God's Word goes against 99% of Scripture's teaching about how we are to treat others. Perhaps you have not had to walk in the same set of circumstances BlueRidge has been in all her life, I certainly hope not but if you have and you stand by your convictions, well, that works for you but not everyone is you. I believe we need to give grace to those who are hurting, come along side them w/o judging them and others here on the site, put our arms around them and accept them as they are, where they are and be thankful we were not raised by such an abusive man, if that is the case.
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Bellas, I understand your sense of injustice about the system's assumptions. I think the system acts on those assumptions because most people think that most people would want to look after their parents. Then, like us, they try it; and suddenly they can understand how for many people looking after their parents, which isn't just a matter of smiling fondly on them and bringing them flowers, is too much to carry; and then suddenly they can completely understand how BlueRidge can decide that enough has been enough.

But, still, it's a reasonable assumption - as long as those who have good reasons to also feel free to correct it.
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OMG--an 87 yr old father and no one wants him. This is a fate worse than death.

To the point of the question, Medicare does pay for 100 days of rehab. Nursing homes/rehabs will ask family members to bring the elder home early after 30 or 60 days, because they benefit if they can get patients in the first 30 days. The home gets more payment from Medicare. However, you can get the 100 days of rehab if he needs it.

Too sad for words that no one wants to care for this elder or arrange a proper placement for him. The good book calls us to "honor they father and mother" I missed the verse that says it is proper to walk away from thy father and mother.
However in today's society some fathers fall short and many children fall short of caring for their elder. At 87 he will not live another 10 yrs in most cases --so getting him a proper placement if he needs one ---seems little enough to do.

Getting tired of folks who put themselves first always. Even if he was not a great dad, for god's sake find him a proper placement. Yes it takes some work, so what. Be the better person.
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You're doing the right thing - telling them you can't do anymore. You've put in your time and now it's time for someone to help - namely care providers. If selling the property is an option, I would probably do that first. Once those assets are used, Medicaid usually steps in. Maybe an attorney can advise you on the most expedient way to accomplish this. You need this responsibility off your shoulders. You deserve a life too. Bottom line - don't take him back. I know when they were going to discharge my husband following hip surgery, I was very adamant that I would not pick him up, if they put him curbside I would not put him in the car, and if he showed up at the house in a cab, I would not take him in. The only reason? I could not physically lift, move, or transfer him. I reminded them my husband could not get good care from me and it would put me in danger too. What bothered me so much was they told my husband he had to be released. He went through some initial rehab and that was very good. It just wasn't enough. My husband called me one day and said they may send him to a rehab hospital but he did not know how they would get him there. Later they told him he could transfer by ambulance. 2 weeks later when discharge was being discussed, I told the rehab nurses I needed in-home help as I just couldn't do any heavy stuff. He got very good care. If I brought him home the first time they tried to discharge it would have been an entirely different outcome for both of us. Stick with your decision to not bring him home. If you're concerned about the string of conversation you may want to put your concerns in writing to the nurses and doctors. Keep us posted.
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Two thoughts:
1) Do you have a medical or mental health provider that can help you determine that you are physically / mentally / emotionally unable to provide your father's care without physically / mentally doing harm to yourself? A caregiver does no one any favors by being too run down to care for the parent. Wouldn't your father's quality of life be compromised if he was cared for by someone who just could not do it?
2) I have the same thoughts and feelings towards my mother more often than I'd like to admit. By having professionals provide care for her, I can just visit and hope to salvage a little bit of the relationship. I have been to visit at times when her meanness pushed me to the edge ..... and I was able to just LEAVE. It's impossible to stay in the room (much less provide care) for someone who can make your blood boil.

As usual, Ba8alou is right on target. An eldercare attorney would take a load off of you and be paid from your father's funds while it is all sorted out.

Best best wishes to you. Please take a deep breath and realize "we got your back", then find something to do today that makes you smile!
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BlueRidge, I think you have done your part. You deserve to be able to live your life. Sounds like your father was and is abusive. I have a 91yr. old uncle that has nobody but me to look after him. He still lives on his own in his own house close to me. He depends on me to cook meals and take care of any problems he gets himself into. Almost every time I see him, which is practically daily, he tells me I am going to get everything when he is gone. He abused me when I was a child and my greatest wish is that I will live to see the day he is no longer in my world. I am 61 and actually had a nightmare about him night before last. Creepy, I know, but just goes to show the impact of abuse. He tells me that the longer he stays out of a NH, the more I will get. I honestly don't want his stuff. I would rather he be out of my life and in a place where I know he is being looked after than to have a single dime of his money. I can understand exactly where you are coming from and no, it doesn't sound heartless to me. Do what it takes to get on with your life.
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Why does the 'system' assume it is the adult child's responsibility to care for an abusive parent? When a parent abuses a child, the 'system' steps in and takes the child away from the parent. They do this because they want to protect the child from further verbal and physical abuse and Neglect. So why can't this so called 'system' work for the adult children of parents who are 'abusing' them? Readers can define 'abuse' as needed. The 'system' steps in when the husband abuses his wife, so I wonder if one can get a restraining order against the abusive parent? BlueRidge, please do not let the 'system' bully you into taking your dad back. Change your phone number if you must and change your home address to a POBox and do not tell anyone but your creditors. Do get removed as the POA. Why can't adult children go to court and get emancipated from the parent like teenagers are allowed to do. Heck! Why can't adult children 'divorce' their parents, there must be a legal term for that. I wonder if there is any family left on your 'ex-dad's' side whose name you could give to 'the system' on your way out of his life. I am not some heartless person for those who will think that but I know when a person has done all they are able to do and when that happens, they need to walk away, not feel guilty and live out their days recovering from a life time of abuse.
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