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Our mother age 95 resides in a SNF since Feb 2020 because she requires skilled nursing care. She barely moves around in her wheelchair and mostly sleeps seldom watching TV. There are two residents to a small bedroom which has an attached half bathroom. Our mother is in the bed closest to the bathroom while the roommate (age 90) has the window side of the room. They are only separated by a bed curtain. Our mother has complained that her roommate deliberately refuses to close the bathroom door forcing our mother to smell those moments.



During my visits, the roommate is always hidden behind the bed curtain watching her TV and I respect her privacy. Many times our mother is sleeping in her chair and rarely has her TV on - claims no interest.



However, recently both my sister and I observed disturbing behavior in our mother's roommate and are wondering how to address this problem? When speaking to our mother - behind the curtain she turns her TV volume so loud we can barely talk. Or if I turn on my mother's TV she blasts her volume louder. My sister visited yesterday and said our mother was sitting with her hands over her ears because of the roommates loud TV. My sister politely asked the roommate to lower the volume where upon woman stood up and did so but smirked at my sister. She appears to be deliberately doing this behavior to upset our mother. I'm guessing there are conflicts going that we don't know about besides the bathroom business.



This is the first I knew that the roommate was ambulatory as I've never seen her standing or outside the room - she is always hidden behind the bed curtain. I was shocked to hear she can stand and walk about. Our mother is very disabled and needs assistance in the bathroom.



Now we are concerned about what is going on when we are not there. The aides and nursing staff are very busy and there is minimal staff to even notice these issues. We do not want to complain and risk the staff moving our mother to different room farther away from the nurse station. Our mother was in this room first before this current roommate (previous roommate passed). I regret not moving her to the window side away from the bathroom when that was an option.



I have never seen her roommate with any visitors - which may be due to different visit days/times. Maybe she resents our visits and attention given to our mother. Someone mentioned the roommate lost her two children years ago and her only family is a granddaughter and niece. She has lots of pictures displayed.



So any suggestions how do we deal with this aware, cognitive, high-functioning roommate who is displaying spiteful behavior?

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Make this situation known to the admins, not the nursing staff. It seems your LO is in a Medicaid bed, so there may not be other roommate options but the volume issue cannot keep going, as it is akin to torture. Keep visiting at random times to see if the admin have developed a solution or remedied the situation. The roommate is obviously very hard of hearing and maybe even has dementia (hence the smirk). The obvious solution would be for the roommate to use headphones or earbuds when watching tv. But if the roommate has dementia, then the staff needs to know that when they hear that level of volume, they need to insist she use the headphones. After that, I think your mom needs to switch rooms. Been there, done that, with my MIL on Medicaid in LTC.
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LongShot56 Apr 2022
This is the same room our mother shared with this roommate when our mother was private pay at $15K per month until recently converted to Medicaid. We have paid this facility over $200K since our mother was initially admitted after a hospital stay.

This roommate does not have dementia and is far more mental and physically cable than our mother. She is recently displaying this spite behavior and may be trying to get our mother to move from this room. Our mother had this room first - the roommate can ask to be moved in my opinion. I will not allow this roommate to call the shots here.
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Problems with roommates in LTC facilities is more the norm than not, and some of the things you mention are some of the more common complaints. Worse complaints abound as well including roommates who insist on interaction. Especially common is the wars over TV and other things when more than one half population of this age are hard of hearing.
There is little you can do but discuss with the facility Social Worker and/or administration the things you have mentioned above. Do understand that there are in fact worse outcomes. Some people reside in SNF because they have untreated sores on extremities and cannot/will not tolerate amputations. The odor in these rooms is overwhelming 24/7.
I am so sorry this is a problem but you really have no choice but to approach those in charge here. Only they have the power to change anything at all.
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LongShot56 Apr 2022
You are so right on for stating the reality of these situations. I want to be careful as this does seem like a minor petty issue. I certainly do not want to make it worse for our mother. The devil you know versus the one you may meet next. Thank you
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Can you not wheel your Mom to the Common Area. You may be disturbing her roommate by sitting there talking to Mom. It would me if I was trying to concentrate on a show or reading a book.

There has to be compromise when you share a room. When DHs Aunt was in the NH her roommate complained about the loudness of Aunts TV, Aunt was hard of hearing. We got Aunt earphones which at the time plugged into the TV.
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LongShot56 Apr 2022
We typically wheel our mother somewhere when we make a visit. I wish she was able to wheel herself out of the room like before the Covid lock down. Now she seems mentally and physically unable to even go out into the hall way.

The roommate is being petty when I make a short visit to pickup / drop off laundry. Yes - this is certainly about compromise under these circumstances.
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Definitely bring this up with both the DON and the Administrator, it doesn't matter why the room mate is being an a****** it needs to be dealt with because this is your mother's home and she deserves to feel safe there. I seldom visited my mother in her shared room unless she was the only one there, I preferred to take her to the lounge or on a walk or to sit outside but she was in a wheelchair so that was relatively easy. Plus people in shared rooms were encouraged to be out of their rooms unless they were sleeping - yes that resulted in the stereotypical cluster of residents in the lounge across from the nurse's station but at least eyes were watching for any discord.
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Geaton777 Apr 2022
cwillie, yes, asking the staff if they are able/willing to roll her out of the room during the day into a lounge or to a window or to an activity is a good option. It may require a daily call to them to ask/remind for this "favor".
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My mom was in one last year (she's in again now too) and last year the roommate she had screamed all night, cursed, screamed some more and tried to gaslight the staff into my mom was the one doing it. I later learned that some of these roommates do this to try and get the other person to move, to trick Medicare into getting a private room. Unfortunately it caused staff to not want to go into my mom's room even to care for her. I threatened to report them, and the patient to Medicare and they moved my mom. Regardless of being understaffed, threatening or untoward behavior cannot be tolerated. Get your mom moved.

The nursing staff told me after mom got to a different room this would be that woman's FIFTH roommate. The bad roommate gave me one of those ha ha looks when we were leaving and I said next time I hoped her bedpan was just out of reach when she next needed it. Then I shut the door.
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LongShot56 Apr 2022
Sometimes it makes you wonder how deliberate this behavior is to get their own way.....
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I am going to attempt some surprise visits and see what is going on before I report to the staff. This TV issue was again observed when my sister made a surprise visit (she lives over 2 hrs away) and witnessed what I saw too. The roommate is far more mentally and physically able then our mother who is completely wheelchair bound. This is recent deliberate spite behavior and I agree she is trying to drive (move) our mother from the room. This roommate is not hearing impaired - she is playing games. I've never seen her outside of the room although she can independently walk.

We do typically wheel our mother out to the front lobby and outside during warm weather. However, sometimes she refuses as she complains of being too tired. We are very polite and never impose on the roommate. So I think our mother and her have had words when no one is around. I've never seen them speak to each other during any of my visits.

During Covid no one was allowed to leave their rooms and this problem may have erupted during this lock down period that lasted for months. Sadly our mother no longer seems able to wheel herself out of the room. Again, mentally and physically unable to go that short distance. I will ask the staff if sometimes they can remove her to a quiet window area outside of her room.

In addition, to add to this complex situation a younger male resident (maybe age 40's?) with Down's syndrome was admitted to the same floor a few months ago. He is wheel chair bound but goes up and down the hallway and parks himself in the large sun room across from the nurse station. This is the ideal location for the staff to keep an eye on him. I've witnessed him trying to spit at people when he is having a bad behavior event. I was on the receiving end trying to walk past him one time in the hall and I avoid him now. If he blocks a door way to a resident's room everyone starts yelling to move him away. The residents want nothing to do with him and do not want to him near them. When he is parked in the sun room they will not go inside - and I cannot blame them. I'm sorry if my comments here are offending anyone but these are my observations.

So he appears to reside in the last room at the end of my mother's hall way. The other weekend it appears the staff did not allow him out of his room and he was screaming and yelling a major temper tantrum - nonstop - you could hear him clear down the long hallway. Maybe the weekend staff was attempting to allow the other residents access to the sun room that day. At my next visit, he was back in the sun room alone again while the able residents were hanging out in the dining room far away from him.

So I am deeply concerned that if the staff moved my mother it might be to a room closer to him. Her current room location is the farther way and ideally nearest the nurse station. This room location is best for her to be monitored the other residents are able to wheel or walk outside their rooms while our mother is unable. I would be very concerned staff would forget her as I don't think she is mentally capable of using the call buzzer anymore.
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Sarah3 Apr 2022
You have a lot of concerns about other residents, I understand she’s your mom and you want to shield her from noise and interactions etc, however the reality is this is a snf where residents have little to no privacy, and the patients are there for a reason, if they were high functioning healthy adults they wouldn’t be there. Have you considered having your mother live either with you or another relative? It seems like her being in a facility will be one concern after another- if it’s not this roommate wanting privacy ( you described her use of the privacy curtain as “hiding”, which makes it sound like she’s doing something wrong when it’s a matter of her wanting some semblance however small of privacy. The tv volume and now this other resident down the hall. I had a relative in a snf only very short term and it was the same type of issues, realistically those facilities are what they are- many patients, overworked staff sometimes understaffed, two or most patients to a room. It was difficult for me to see him there for the short time he was there, he had a roommate same thing, a privacy curtain, tv etc so while I didn’t like it I understood that’s what it is- can’t change what it is, if a roommate is outright abusive is different but I’m sorry to tell you that issues of tv volume or a roommate remembering to always close the bathroom door are common everyday issues that unfortunately go along w it.

If you can’t bring her to live w yourself or a relative then take her to sit outside in the sun, or in the day room- if she objects she’s choosing to remain in her room
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I think I would work on trying to get the room mate moved (although sometimes the devil you know is better than what you could get instead) or at least encouraged to spend more time away from the room.
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added individual comments below - oops.
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Report the roommate's behavior to the Director of Nursing and request that she be transferred to another room. You may want to mention that your mother has been a long-time resident of that room and moving her would be traumatic to her. If that gets you nowhere, talk to the Administrator of the facility. You may want to mention that you'd "hate to get the state involved" (your state's ombudsman)...That usually gets them moving.

Keep documentation of your requests, (who you talked to, date, time, etc.) and dates & times of the incidents. Also, you may want to put your requests in writing to start a paper trail.

My guess is that the roommate is trying for a private room and has probably been transferred multiple times.
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Sarah3 Apr 2022
Do you really believe a 90 year old having the volume of the tv turned up is something “the state” would be concerned about? She’s 90. She has the volume of the turned up bc most likely at her advanced age has some hearing loss and has trouble hearing when others are talking in the room. Staff hears this all the time from patients, two people living in unnaturally close quarters is going to have challenges- rather than running to get “the state involved” I hope common sense will prevail w options such as requesting head/ ear phones for watching tv, if it’s possible the op could sometimes take her mom out for short visits, a change of scenery even if it’s to sit outside in the sun and have a snack would be good for her to get out a bit
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There is only one answer and it’s to tell the staff if not it’s going to continue you could have a quiet word with the staff voicing your concerns I am sure they will be willing to help and solve the problem
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When my mom was in Nursing Home we tried to include roommate somehow. She probably doesn’t have many visitors and maybe feels bad behavior will get some attention to her. Example: We would bring my mom something in and bring extra for roommate maybe she will be alittle nicer. Be careful of food allergies though. Diffidently yes letting Nursing Home know the need for roommate to be transferred and try to have more surprise visits. Document everything. Hope this helps. Oh make sure there are no signs of physical abuse from roommate. If mom can get some Physical Therapy to keep her legs strong so she can get out of room more. God Bless y’all and hope this was helpful. I will be praying for you all.
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LongShot56 Apr 2022
Thank you - we are not allowed to share treats / food because of allergies or diet restrictions. I think this situation will calm down and pass. Our mother is very disabled and can barely stand although she does get some physical therapy. She is very weak in her arms as well and no longer wheels herself around. She is unable to participate in the exercise room with the other residents because she is high fall risk. Her roommate is able and that is good so she can participate outside their room in those activities.
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Don’t move your mom unless absolutely necessary. Roommate needs to move. But next roommate maybe worse just prepare yourself. Y’all gotta talk to Adminstration asap for mom well being.
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When I read the title of your post I was concerned and went to read it. It doesn’t sound like there’s anything out of the norm for two people living in such close quarters. You describe the roommate as “hiding” behind the privacy curtain, but it sounds as if she just like most people value their privacy when others are in the room. Her roommate is around the same age as your parent so they’re both very advanced in age in their 90’s. Just bc she’s more ambulatory doesn’t mean a whole lot- she’s in her 90’s, very well may have hearing loss, cognitive issues. Living side by side in such a small room with little privacy in a facility where people come and go is not a easy or pleasant way to live- a short stay in a hospital w those same challenges is already stressful but when it’s a longer term arrangement such as this it comes down to the reality it is what it is, two people in very close quarters with basically little to no privacy. If one has the means to have their loved one remain at home or with a family member or in a private room in one of those expensive senior homes are options that avoid this but of course not everyone has those options- and then all that one can really do is make the best of it by respecting the privacy of the other resident. Issues related to tv volume is a common issue that staff has to deal with - there are probably dozens of other patients complaining of the same thing, You could ask staff if there are headphones available for patients to wear watching tv - I think some places offer that. The last thought I have is are you allowed to take her outside in a yard area or out for a couple hours with you? If so that seems like it would be more enjoyable for her definitely and you as well
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LongShot56 Apr 2022
Thank you - totally reasonable what you replied.
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Unless you’ve consulted with this patients doctor the reality is you don’t know what her mental, cognitive or even physical health issues are, frankly it’s not your concern or area of expertise. Her doctor knows, which of course is not your concern. Focus on common sense solutions such as requesting if they can provide ear phones for the tv, taking your mom out of her room when visiting it’s good for her to have a change of scenery - if she’s difficult and objects you can either insist and take her anyway or let her remain in her room. If it’s as bad as you say I would think she’d be relieved to get out a bit w you when visiting
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Could Mom or you and sister pay extra for a private room and bathroom?
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Llamalover47 Apr 2022
Becky: Great question.
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#1 Don't attribute the roommate's behaviour to spite - a) because it's bad strategy and b) because you don't know her. Turning the volume of her tv up is one way for her not to hear your private conversation, for example; and what's the difference between a smile and a smirk? If she'd meant to be unpleasant she could have gone for an indignant glare instead (and refused, of course).

#2 It is obviously more sensible for the person who is able to get to the bathroom independently to be closer to it [especially if she is able to walk, but not to shut a door behind herself apparently]. Who's in charge of bed allocation? I can't see anything against approaching that person with an offer to switch around to make access to the bathroom easier for the roommate.

How long since the new roommate moved in?
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Geaton777 Apr 2022
Countrymouse, I so agree that the first assumption should not be that's it is motivated by evil. Every day on this forum it shocks me when seasoned caregivers project unprovable motives to the behaviors of dementia patients.
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Make peace first and plan how to adjust the circumstance. What is the roommate’s TV schedule? Arrange some type of out of the room activity for your mom at those times. Maybe just a roll down the hall for a snack.

It’s a long shot but does the roommate’s TV have Bluetooth speaker capability? Once you have got to know roommate, she might enjoy her TV through a speaker located near her head.

My MIL was in SKN for twelve years in the same room. Roommates came and went. Work with the staff and get to “know” the roommate and work out a non confrontational solution.
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I know if you keep asking to turn the TV down, she will continue to do it to annoy. The older they get, they turn into children. Probably jealous, so makes the visit quite annoying.

So what I would try, is to get her on your side before asking for a room change. How about bringing in some yummy food you could share with her? I'd check with staff first, in case she has diatary restrictions i.e. diabetic, or chewing/swallowing issues. You can always bring in a diet soda or something a diabetic could have.
Id make a big deal about chatting to her too. Glad to see you! And mean it. How are you fine ladies today? Beautiful spring day. Wow you have a lot of pictures. Who are they? Great looking family. I can see where they get their good looks from, and so on. Who is that in the picture? It may work. You might make a friend. Bring in a magazine or something. A spring card from dollar tree, or some spring plastic flowers, or real ones for her side of the toom, as well as mom's side. A couple of bucks from dollar tree etc. Little things. Find out what she likes.
Id say I'd like to get to know you, since you are the roommate of my mom. No point in being over there by yourself. Might as well all chat and have a nice visit if your up to it. Introduce yourself. Maybe take them both outside on the patio, on a nice day. She might love that. Staff rarely has the time to do that, and they can't be out there alone. Maybe have a lunch with both of them. Or as they eat, you sit and chat.

My sister used to talk to my dad's roommate, and then I did too. My dad said very little by that time, but would listen, and nod. We would bring in food, when my dad could eat it. Or a small choc or strawberry shake on occasion. Both of their eyes lit up like a Christmas tree! The room mate looked forward to our visits. He was very aware. Told me all about his life. He had an occasional visitor, but they only stayed a few minutes, drop of his sidas then leave. He was allowed to have a little refrigerator so kept Sam's club dr pepper sodas in there. That was his guilty little pleasure. I would chat to him too every time I was there. It made the visits sooo much nicer, bc sometimes my dad was asleep, and it beat staring at my phone. And less awkward. And usually a nurse or cna would pop in and chat for a min or 2. I'd always act like I was very glad to see him too. He was a very nice man. He was younger than most of the residents. They really enjoyed the food and trinkets I brought in. Little decorations for the season.

It might make all the difference, and they might become friends, or tolerate each other better. Since the roommate is very alert, I would do my best to include her. I bet she is very lonely. That's why she's turning the TV up. Doesn't want to hear your visit. Jealous.

A tolerable roommate is better than one who makes life miserable. If she leaves the room, tell your mom what you are befriending her too. Maybe they will learn to enjoy each other's company. I bet it will work.
I would bring things in for my dad to decorate his shelf above the bed. I bet she would enjoy that too. Always got cards and dollar tree stuff, or little things from the pharmacy, so if it's taken, it's no big deal. Most people like little surprises, and I think you'll make a friend! And she'll look out for your mom too. And since she is cognizant, she can keep a better eye out for the wandering residents, and your mom. I bet it will work, good luck.
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Your love and respect for your mother's comfort, privacy, and quality of life are wonderful. There are so many good pieces of advice already posted. I hope some of them work for you. If not, perhaps consider taking care of your mom in your home if that is at all possible, as that is likely the only place you can control the environment to your liking. I'm doing that now and though it is a full time job for me, the peace of mind for mom, me, and our family is worth it.
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PeggySue2020 Apr 2022
The ops mom requires 247 skilled nursing care that op can’t provide and would cost probably twice what she and eventually Medicaid would be paying for.
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How many times have you requested a new room assignment for Mom? If not granted, move her to a more humane place. She deserves respect and peace. Installing a baby cam might be an alternative, but why wait for more damage to your mom's happiness.
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The problem with double rooms is visitors and TV watching in close proximity. You might talk to staff first - but doubt anything will be remedied. You might also pay for a set of magic ears for both mom and roomie. TV can be muted so that others don't have to hear what they are watching. May be a pretty cheap fix to help the problem - especially if other lady has no visitors --- if they don't visit they don't know or care about how loud her TV is.
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Can you ask the nurses if they will bring her to a common area if she has a reclining chair (geri chair)? Do you think that would be a better environment for her? Medicare will probably pay for the geri chair.
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Let administration know about the noise issue and the smell issue. Your mother should not have to endure this behavior - seems kind of like abuse to me since it is deliberate. Since mom was there first, then her roommate should have to change rooms.
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First - let me THANK everyone who replied and helped me with your own experience and insight for possible causes. Looking back, I totally agree as many of you described this is the reality of these SNF with residents sharing a room/bathroom without privacy. It is sadly their circumstances and the staff is trying to do their best job too.

I sincerely wanted to approach this rationally and acknowledge that there are always other reasons that I was not aware of. Regrettably, I believe I identified the cause or what triggered this recent conflict. My mother's younger brother (age 85) made a recent visit unknown to me - which is fine. However, he should have removed my mother from their resident room to another appropriate private area for visiting. Instead he stayed and sat in their room for a lengthy time period which is totally unacceptable. In the past, I knew he visited and sat in the front lobby - so it NEVER occurred to me he would visit in their room. (I'm banging my head in frustration when I found this out.) I realize he has difficulties walking with a cane, etc. but he could have asked to move his sister outside the resident room for a private visit. I told him to never do that again - NEVER. He must arrange to meet his sister outside the resident room and he can always ask for assistance to wheel her somewhere else.

I politely asked the charge nurse today - to be aware when he visits to PLEASE locate him to an appropriate visit area. I will apologize to the roommate for this inconsiderate behavior of my family member - hopefully, it will calm the situation. I'm very grateful for your input to help me think what may have been the trigger......
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LongShot56: You should pose the concerns that you've stated here to the SNF administration.
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First - her brother does have a right to visit her in her room - that IS a reason to draw curtain if desired by roommate but yes he should not have overstayed . Did the roommate tell you that ? ( just wondered)
i agree with people who suggested your being friendly to the roommate in whatever way you are permitted..as far as treats or just niceties like flowers or seasonal decor.
I would continue your practice of visiting outside the room when mom is up to it ..but not force her . With my mom , I noticed that the wheelchair was just not a comfortable seat to remain in for very long. We seriously need to provide better for our elderly and infirm. One issue , especially for my mom, was that the chairs , of all kinds , including their bedside recliners , were much to large for their frames. Probably , much like many things like car seats, based on the male form . They have actually done studies proving that people are much more comfortable of they have proper seating and that it also supported physical health such as circulation, lung capacity, edema, and decreased pain , also less agitation and anxiety. Something those who inspect these SNFs and pay Medicare and Medicaid dollars to should consider. Anyway, perhaps could be why she wants to stay in her room.
If she blasts the volume when mom is alone with her , obviously it isn’t because of your conversational noise..this needs to stop if it hasn’t all ready. That actually is something they use to torture prisoners - loud sound at all times of day. I’d assume that the staff can hear it and should respond accordingly if room is close. So if it doesn’t stop that roomie should move. Also should be informed she must close bathroom door EVERY time ..that’s just gross. I have an acute sense of smell and that would be terrible. If she won’t that’s a reason to move her at least to the side with the bathroom nearest.
One additional thought - concerning the privacy curtain ..is it always closed or is this a recent thing or just when you visit ? The thing is if so , your mom is deprived of a window and sunlight and sky. In shared room situations , especially long term such as in SNF , both deserve to see outside . Actually increases depression when deprived of that. If she did this all through a Covid lockdown it could have affected your mom negatively. Also , a reason to have her moved from room or to the bathroom side.
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LongShot56 Apr 2022
You made some very valid points and I do agree with them. Some background - mom was admitted to this SNF late Feb 2020 and the building went into lock down 2 weeks later. So family was not allowed inside the building for almost 1 year - I visited through an outside glass door using my cell phone.

The privacy curtain has always been drawn between the 2 beds as required during Covid and it remains that way since these two roommates are not friendly with each other - this is what they want. I get the sense they have had words in the past and tolerate each other in this situation. I do agree about the window for light too. My mother does complain about bright light which is why I left her nearer the door side. However, directly outside their doorway across the hall is a glass door with a view of the garden courtyard. We have told her numerous times to wheel herself to that glass door for a quiet private view - to get out of the room. She did this before Covid but seems unable to do so now - unable mentally to remember what we told her and maybe unable physically? I will ask the staff to do this for her at least. When my sister or I visit we try to wheel her to the lobby or this glass doorway - now with warmer weather I took her outside today. She tolerated it about 15 - 20 minutes then requested to go back to the room. She always wears sunglasses outside because the bright light bothers her.

Her younger brother visits last 2 hours (what he told me) and I am surprised she stays awake. This is why I became very upset when I realized he was in their room during this visit. No wonder the roommate was upset! He also calls his sister twice a day and will contact the nurse station if she doesn't respond after numerous attempts to reach her. I've witnessed her sleep through the ringing phone where I answered and told him so. Sometimes she does not replace the phone back properly on the cradle and so it is busy signal for hours. He knows this - but will not listen to me to stop this obsessive controlling behavior - it is who he is. Plus, her other brother calls her daily too. I visit twice per week but my visits are short (l do laundry) and reasonable in duration depending how lucid she is that day. I do not call her.

So after reading the many helpful replies it has helped me get a better perspective. I will continue to observe that the situation has calmed down and does not get worse. My main obstacle and stress for me is I cannot control the behavior of other people (family members). Lastly, I do apologize as I am aware that my posts are petty considering the far bigger problems others are living with here.
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There have been several posts suggesting that you ask the staff to take mother out of her room to a common area. A better alternative might be to ask the staff to take the room mate out, rather than mother. If room mate watches TV much of the time, most NH s have several TVs in common rooms.

Asking to swap beds could also be good. If mother is in bed, a view through the window would be good for her. If room mate is watching TV, she isn’t looking out of the window anyway. I would guess that this is up to the staff to decide on, they can just do it.

Worth a try?
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Geaton777 Apr 2022
I get what you're saying and think it is an option, but I'm not sure a non-family member/non-PoA can dictate what the staff does with another resident. I certainly wouldn't want someone else making decisions in our stead with my MIL, unless the reason and other solutions were discussed with us first.
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