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My mil has been diagnosed with dementia for about 8-9 years now. But sometimes the way she acts I think she is playing us. She is so rude to my children to a point of telling them she hates them and swears at them but is so nice to her own children and her other grandkids. Why is she this way?? It’s so hard. Sometimes i want to swear at her too but I don’t and know I shouldn’t. It’s hard on my children. Any thoughts?

Do
Not
Go
To MIL's
home.

Do
NOT
Expose
Your
Children
To
This
Kind
Of
Treatment,
NOT
Ever!
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Reply to Sendhelp
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Just read your profile. You say that you are caring for your MIL. You have four children ages 6 through 18. I certainly hope that this woman isn’t living in your home.

Regardless of whether your mother in law has dementia or not, your children don’t deserve to be mistreated by her.

Your older children may be old enough to comprehend that their grandmother has a disease, but the younger ones won’t understand it. None of them should have to put up with this kind of behavior. Frankly, nor should you.

Are you her primary caregiver? I am sorry that you are in this situation. Step away from being her caregiver if this has become too much for you to handle.

What does your husband say about how the children are affected by his mom’s behavior?

Wishing you and your family all the best.
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Reply to NeedHelpWithMom
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She is abusing your children. How would you react if someone else were speaking to your kids that way? Don’t you do everything you can to protect them from those who would hurt them?

Your MIL has a disease but that doesn’t give her a free pass to harm your kids. Separate them, whatever you have to do. She needs professional care, and you and your family need relief.

This is a horrible way to bring up your kids. You have to restore normality to their lives. I hope you do so ASAP.
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Reply to Fawnby
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they sure can behave differently
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Protect your children from her abuse; that is your job as their mother. I’ll go ahead and assume they hate going over there.
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Swearing is not ‘nice’, but it can get the message across very quickly. If she is ‘nice’ to her daughters and their kids, it’s really up to her son (your husband) to stand up for his own wife and kids. He also may be more willing to swear – most men have a good vocabulary.

If she doesn’t like you and your children, stop going to see her. Why would you? Why would she want you to? Certainly stop taking your children around there to hear that she ‘hates them’. Your sisters in law and your husband need to stand up for you and yours, particularly if they want you to continue providing any care.

I used to work as legal associate to a Supreme Court judge, who gave me this memorable advice: “Don’t stick your a**s out to be kicked”. He had a good vocabulary as well as an impressive brain. Don't get 'played'. Eight years is more than enough.
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NeedHelpWithMom May 14, 2024
Love this judge!

We have a poster on this forum that says the best advice she received from her therapist was, “Never let s shark see you bleed!” Love that too!
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Don’t set your children up for being around abusive behavior, no matter the cause
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Reply to Daughterof1930
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Yeah they do act different around different people.

It seems that the ones doing the most and help the most usually get the worst of it. When My sister visit who doesn't help at all mom is all smiles.

For my brother who is poa, when he is around mom showtimes and makes it easier for him to live in denial.

You should absolutely, not let your kids around your Mil. And let us know more so we can give you better advice.

Does she live with you?
How often do you see her?

Wishing you all the luck , getting though this
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Reply to Anxietynacy
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Yes, it happens almost every time.

I really hope your children are not minors you’re willingly exposing to abuse.
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NeedHelpWithMom May 14, 2024
She says in her profile that her kids are ages 6 through 18.

Neither the kids nor she, deserves to be mistreated by this woman, regardless of whether she has dementia or not.

I posted earlier in the thread and asked her what her husband thinks about this situation. Plus, why is she even caring for his mom?

The OP should step away and allow someone else to care for her MIL.
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We all act differently with other people. Always.
Think about it.
You act differently to your wife than to your boss.
You act differently to your friend than to your wife or your boss.
You act differently to you child than to your wife and your boss and your friend.
You act differently to a stranger than to a wife or a child or a boss or a friend.
You act differently to a worker than to a stranger or a wife or a child or a boss or a friend.

So that's to say in brief that our relationship to any "other" is very complicated and varies greatly, and that's true usually in dementia as well.

None of this is important because the important thing here is that MIL is being abusive to your children and she should not be allowed to see them. I once thought that it would "do the kids good" to know how to handle the question of dementia, abusive folks and so on, and things could be explained to them. Now I think, no, they have a right to protection. You CAN and SHOULD explain that MIL is ill and that this illness affects her brain and she isn't much in control of what she says. But still they need to be protected from abuse by removing them. Your kids are ages 6-18 you tell us. Especially the younger ones can be injured by this vitriol.

If MIL lives with you, that needs to end. You are responsible to your children, not your MIL.
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Reply to AlvaDeer
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Keep the kids away from her.

Doesn’t matter if she has dementia; she is saying hurtful things. Don’t expect the kids to shrug it off.
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Reply to LoopyLoo
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hello everyone.

Thank you for all your comments and care.

unfortunately, separation is not possible. She lives with us. It’s always been this way. She has other daughters but no one willing to keep her long term. And senior home care is not even an option.

so for the most part she is not alone with the children ( my youngest is 8 now) and is not afraid to respond or say he doesn’t like her.

The other family members don’t believe us as she is never like that wiyh them and they have ‘never’ heard her speak like that before. So she ‘can’t’ be that mean.

Anyway. There is no fear of harming the kids. They are never alone with her for a period of time. My oldest is 20 but has unfortunately grown up with not being liked and now doesn’t like her gran , naturally. I didn’t know better as a young mom and couldn’t stand up when my daughter was little. But now I do say what I need to.

I just needed thoughts and some support. Thank you for that.
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graygrammie May 15, 2024
Voice record your mil. Let her other children hear what you hear. Please do whatever you can to get your mil out of the house so that your family can have some semblance of normalcy.
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I was wondering about that, because it seems the one that does the most always gets the worst .

And they take everything out on you. The rest of the family she sees in a different light, so they don't see what you see.

Unfortunately it makes caregiving harder. And this is all normal
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hello everyone.

Thank you for all your comments and care.

unfortunately, separation is not possible. She lives with us. It’s always been this way. She has other daughters but no one willing to keep her long term. And senior home care is not even an option.

so for the most part she is not alone with the children ( my youngest is 8 now) and is not afraid to respond or say he doesn’t like her. But there is a fine line btn manners and respect to the elderly as well. So a balancing act.

The other family members don’t believe us as she is never like that wiyh them and they have ‘never’ heard her speak like that before. So she ‘can’t’ be that mean.

Anyway. There is no fear of harming the kids. They are never alone with her for a period of time. My oldest is 20 but has unfortunately grown up with not being liked and now doesn’t like her gran , naturally. I didn’t know better as a young mom and couldn’t stand up when my daughter was little. But now I do say what I need to.

I just needed thoughts and some support. Thank you for that. I have learnt to cope and make myself understand and make the kids understand too that she’s sick and doesn’t know what she’s saying. Now they see it as her disease has progressed.
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NeedHelpWithMom May 14, 2024
Thanks for your update.

Let’s hope that they aren’t internalizing their feelings.

Kids don’t always have the language to express their feelings and they hold everything inside.

They see and hear more than you think they do and will remember it,

What is blocking you from placing her in a facility?

I wish your family well.
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Senior home care is ALWAYS an option. Don't think it isn't. That your children are hated and sworn at by this woman in their OWN HOME and can do nothing to escape it is unforgivable in my book.

Who cares "why" she is this way, she IS, and nothing is being done to protect your children. Of course it's "hard on them"! Why is MIL getting preferential treatment over your own kids? This makes no sense to me.

It takes one moment for a demented elder to raise their hand to hit or punch a child. Violence and anger is a well known side effect of dementia, yet you have no fear of MIL harming the kids? Elders with dementia have committed murder of their own spouse, even!

Why do think the other "daughters but no one willing to keep her long term?" Because they won't expose themselves and their children to the toxicity of the woman, and rightly so.

You and your husband need to seriously rethink what's best for your KIDS now, not your MIL. She'll be fine in a SNF paid for by Medicaid. I guarantee you she'll be very nice to the staff, she just reserves her wrath for those that she's closest to.

You'll have a tough time finding support here for putting your kids in the line of fire all these years, I'm sorry to say. We recognize the need to protect ourselves and our children from living with toxic and mean elders, few of us will stand for it. I grew up in a toxic home like this and always had a stomach ache and anxiety issues. And a "strained" relationship for life with my mother for subjecting me to a rotten childhood. #Truth

Good luck not just "saying what I need to" but DOING what you need to.
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NeedHelpWithMom May 14, 2024
Yep, and PTSD is a real thing after traumatic experiences. It will bite us in the a** and cause great distress for those who have experienced trauma in their past.
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Senior care is not an option for cultural reasons as well as cost.

mil has never been physically aggressive .. so physical harm is not of concern. And yes I hope the kids have not internalized these feelings. We talk about things often and they know to speak up and talk to me. But it is quite possible that they will hold this in.

unfortunately life is not fair and the earlier they learn the lesson the better BUT yes as a parent I am responsible for them and I need to teach them but keep them safe at the same time. As I said .. a balancing act!

I now have a paid psw coming in for some respite care on occasion So that is helpful
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NeedHelpWithMom May 15, 2024
Life certainly isn’t fair. That much we can agree on. Still, we have to do the best that we can as parents.

I have been in your shoes. My mom lived with us for many years. I know firsthand how challenging it is to be a caregiver and a parent to children. I have two daughters.

The major issue that we don’t have in common is that my mother was never abusive to our children. If she had been, I would have never allowed her to live in our home.

My mother adored all of her grandchildren and they loved her.

Abuse is abuse, emotional abuse is equally as harmful as physical abuse. It’s just a different form of abuse.

It doesn’t matter whether your mother in law has dementia and the abuse isn’t intentional, because the abuse is still occurring. Not only that, it can escalate and do more harm.

Communication with your children will only go so far, because actions speak louder than words.

I commend you for recognizing that this is a problem and reaching out to this forum.

I am not trying to be harsh. I only want you to realize how damaging this situation is for your children.

You’re an adult and think and feel like an adult. I realize that this is difficult for you too.

Since this is a cultural issue, it wouldn’t do much good for you to speak with your husband. What a shame.

Have you considered divorce as an option? Do you have a way to support yourself and your children?

Do you live in the United States or another country?

Your children are young and don’t have the ability to understand the complexity of this situation.

Did you experience a similar situation when you were young? If so, how did you feel? Wouldn’t you want someone to stand up for you?

I am glad that you have some help to assist you with your mother in law.
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I don’t care if it’s cultural.
I don’t care if it’s traditional.
I don’t care if everyone for generations before you did it.
Culture, tradition and expectation can sometimes be nothing more than excuses to allow abuse to continue.

Be the one who stands up to it.

I walked this minefield and now my family is so much more relaxed, so much happier. Children must feel safe at home. And they are supposed to be able to trust their parents to provide that safe environment.

You are teaching your children that they cannot trust you to keep them safe. Safe from emotional abuse. Not all abuse is physical. Read this to your husband. And get her out. She has already harmed your kids.
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Reply to Anabanana
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“Other family members don’t believe us as she is never like that with them and they have ‘never’ heard her speak like that before”. This is when you install a camera in her room – for her safety of course. It will at least allow you to go to the shop, knowing that she hasn’t fallen on the floor at home. Then show the footage to the ‘other family members’ so that they really understand what is going on. You NEED them to understand and to help your deal with it – not just to deny that the problem exists. This is NOT a problem that you and your children should be coping with in the face of denial. Your 20 year old daughter should be old enough to back you up. Your husband is probably teflon-coated, doesn’t get the worst of it, and thinks you are exaggerating, so he also needs to see what is really going on.

“Unfortunately, separation is not possible”. Oh yes it is. You must have changed many ‘cultural’ things since coming to the USA, and you can change this one too. If M can’t afford care, you need to investigate M’s ability to access Medicare. You shouldn’t try to live like a down-trodden peasant wife/servant from two centuries ago. Times are probably changing in your original ‘culture’ as well.

For your interest, Australia had a wave of migration from Poland post WWII, then nothing for many years until the fall of the Iron Curtain. The ‘New Poles’ couldn’t believe how old-fashioned the ‘Old Poles’ were in their family habits. Times change!
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I keep thinking about your situation, because I’m not sure that you are working through the way that this can impact your children. The long term problem isn’t the risk of physical aggression to them, or even MIL swearing at them and running them down. You think you can counter that. The real problem is the role models they are growing up with. Your daughters see their mother knuckling under very nasty treatment, and not fighting back. They see their father not taking the responsibility to stop it. Your sons see that father calls the shots about what has to be tolerated, and that mother thinks it’s ‘not possible’ to object to the whole situation. They also see that old people are the boss, that younger and youngest generations have very limited status – even if they are told that’s not true. What they see and live is what is ‘normal’ for them.

Do you really want this ‘culture’ to be entrenched? Do you want to see your daughters in a marriage like this, with a MIL like this? Or your sons with marriages that fail because of their expectations? My guess is that you don't want this. Change for you is one way to change it for them as well.
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NeedHelpWithMom May 15, 2024
I agree, Margaret. Change is in order for all involved.
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Okay, taking a leap here. Since mil's name is Fatma, I am thinking you are possibly Muslim and that is the cultural reason you feel she needs to live with your family.

I just did a quick search and found that there are many nursing homes geared toward Muslims here in the US, so they do exist. But I don't know if you are in the states. Please do a little research and see if there is anything near you. If you can find a nursing home that serves those of the Muslim faith, then that is evidence that cuturally there are other options besides living in your home for mil and something that you need to ask your husband to consider.
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NeedHelpWithMom May 15, 2024
Wonderful advice!
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Yes they do. My grandma couldn't stand my mom but loves on me and then switched up when she saw my husband
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Zeeh,

I believe that you do care deeply about your children. If you didn’t, you wouldn’t have asked for help on a caregiver forum.

Your responses to the posts are not argumentative or defensive. You have simply stated that you are in a difficult position.

Whether someone has a cultural situation or not in their life, all parents at some point in time, has made errors in judgment.

There are no perfect parents. Also, people who claim to have perfect spouses and children are embellishing the facts, because there are no perfect people.

I could give a crap about perfection. It is unfortunate that we make unwise choices in our lives, but it isn’t the end of the world.

Of course, we should do all that we can to avoid making serious mistakes that harm others and ourselves. When we fail at something, there is usually a reset button that we can hit to start over again.

You are one step ahead, because you have stated that you communicate with your children, which tells me that you aren’t a person who sweeps things under the rug.

People who sweep issues under a rug are generally confused. stuck, perhaps even close minded or frightened.

Some people aren’t interested in discussing anything with anyone. They fail to realize that ignoring the problem isn’t going to make it go away.

I think graygrammie gave you an excellent suggestion for a place to start. I truly hope that you will follow her advice.

You love your children and are concerned about them. Even if damage has been done by this situation, it doesn’t mean that all is lost.

Children and adults have healed from a variety of traumatic experiences.

Chances are that you are stronger than you think. Most of us are quite surprised when we look back on our lives and see what we have overcome.

Try to look at the entire picture. Then, one step at the time, make a plan to work through this difficult problem.

Wishing you peace.
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Zeeh79 May 15, 2024
Thank you ! This has been one of the most understanding replies!

yes to everything.

my purpose to come here was to find out how to deal with a difficult situation as opposed to get rid of her. It’s not like it happens constantly. It’s like a child who has tantrums. We can’t rid of them. We need to learn to deal with them and ease them out of it. With dementia as you all know, the patient has no clue as to what they are doing.. or saying or where they are going. Having said that no one said it is easy …. and yes without constant support and discussions and awareness and education and kindness, we would have very many lonely sick people.

divorce is not even a thought. I love my husband and he me.. he’s stuck in a difficult place to care for his mom. What can one say to someone who has no clue as to what you are saying?

i came here to ask for help on how to deal with the situation and to see if dementia causes a bipolar like symptoms. ( by asking if dementia patients act differently with different people)

As much as I don’t want my children to see their mom doing this, I also want them to see that when you have an opportunity to do good then do it.. give benefit of the doubt. But we are all human.. a little love and compassion goes a long way. Which one of us will actually go out and care for someone without pay? I wouldn’t. But when life gives you lemons.. yes it’s hell squeezing the juice to make lemonade but there are valuable lessons to learn along the way.

No one said life was easy. But with compassion and support ( from those like you) it makes things bearable and yes @margaretmcken, changing things when possible. One step at a time.

thank you all and especially @graygrammie for the advise. Something worth looking into.

i also want to reassure you all not to worry about any harm coming to me or my children. I will NOT stand for it and know where to draw the line. As I said before, we always discuss these and other issues and work to make it easier on all of us.

love you all for your support!💕

working on making things better 🤞
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Zeeh,

I would also like to say, I wonder what your children are thinking about their dad.

As a daughter, growing up, I always saw my father supporting the woman who gave birth to me. Your children aren’t able to say this, since you are the person who is caring for HIS mother.

I would have been very disappointed had my dad requested that my mother do something for him that hurt me as my mother’s child. I saw my father respect my mother. He set an example for the kind of man that I wanted to marry.

Think about that for a moment. What messages is he sending to his children.

I know that we have all been telling you what we think about your part in this, but honestly, your husband is playing a major role in this situation. Nevertheless, you are the only one who can put an end to it.
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I would get rid of her your children do not Need to be abused this is a mean Woman . People who have a mean streak it will sometimes Go 100 Fold and Play Out In their Dementia . My Dad would scream and yell at me In front of people - No idea why ? Like get really Mean . I dealt with a Lot of temper tantrums and took a break for a year . He Became very manic after quarantine and then had a stroke a year later and somehow the stroke made him more child Like and Less mean and Manic . It is the brain and No you are not getting Played . I would tell her " To Knock it off and you dont appreciate her behavior " and when she is mean send her to her room and call Time Out . Sometimes you have to treat them like children because basically they have regressed . You have to create Boundaries and stick to them .
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In short, yes they can. I don't think it is worth worrying about why other than her illness can cause it. My mother who had dementia was like that. but she was like that before too. What was your mil like before she got dementia? It can change people's behaviour and bring out the worst in them.

More importantly I think you have a very difficult situation and a very sick mil who will only get sicker and more difficult to deal with. You are not alone in caring for a difficult ill mil which is causing you the caregiver and other family members great stress.

There comes a time to consider placement in a suitable facility where your mil can receive 24/7 professional care and your and your family can recover from the stress of having her.

Generally speaking, caregivers need to plan times for themselves and have breaks regularly. Can you arrange respite care where mil is looked after by someone else out of your home so you and your kids can relax. or in your home so you can get away for a bit? Even a regular afternoon out can make a big difference for you. Mil will only get worse. You need to care for yourself and your kids too.
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One of the toughest things as a caregiver is having the feeling of always walking on eggshells. Maybe a better description in your case, is a feeling of waiting for another storm to blow through.

The feeling of waiting for the other shoe to drop is quite unnerving.

Whenever dementia is involved, things become more difficult to deal with.

The physical, hands on side of caregiving is hard enough. It becomes unmanageable when we are emotionally drained and stressed out to the point of exhaustion.

It’s all difficult. The best case scenario for when things get out of hand, is that we have the wherewithal to make the decision to place them in a facility.

This kills two birds with one stone. They are cared for and we can resume our lives as it was before a parent was living in our home.

I really hope that placement is a possibility for your mother in law, so you and your family can live in peace.
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It's absolutely possible that a person with dementia can be wonderful to some people and a nightmare to others. If she's able to select your kids to behave this way to then roll that behavior back when her own kids or other people are around, she has self-awareness and comprehends what she's doing.

I was an in-home caregiver for 25 years. This behavior goes on all the time. I've seen elders supposedly with diagnoses moderate dementia plan staged "falls" to get attention and retaining the mental ability to keep their lies going indefinitely.

You cannot allow anyone to behave abusively to your children whether they have dementia or not.

If she lives with you, she gets placed in AL or memory care as soon as a bed opens up somewhere and that must be non-negotiable. Call every AL or memory care you can find. This is really the only way to deal with a situation like yours long term and successfully.

She lives in your house. Don't forget it. YOUR house, not hers. The next time she gets verbally abusive to you or one of your kids, get right in her face and you tell her plainly that if she ever swears at, is disrespectful, or makes any comment to you or your children you will make her sorry she did. You put any cultural demands about DIL's have to tolerate abusive in-laws away. It's 2024. No one living in the U.S. western Europe or any other first-world country with civilized laws has to live with abuse.

If your MIL has been like this and able to control it around certain people for 8 or 9 years, she's playing you. Don't let her. You compare her to a child throwing tantrums. Then you respond the same as you would to a child throwing tantrums.

The next time she's nasty to you or your kids, she spends the rest of the day and night in her room and she doesn't leave her room until you say so. Put a lock on the outside of her door if you have to. If she gets nasty and snide about meals, she goes hungry. You don't take her crap or play her games for one more day. You make it abundantly clear to her that she lives in your house not hers.

There is a big difference between a senior-brat throwing tantrums and child one doing the same.

That difference is you can get rid of the senior one by placed them in a residential care facility.
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MiaMoor May 19, 2024
I don't think that using a lock is either safe or advisable. If a fire were to break out, the mil wouldn't be able to get out.

Also, any other family members or healthcare professionals would have something to say about such treatment.

However, I do agree with sending the mil up to her room if she becomes verbally abusive again. The children need to see that they matter and that there are consequences to bad behaviour.

Also, her bedroom could be kitted out like a nice bed-sitting room, as if the elder were in a room in a care facility. Meals etc. could be taken up to her, and all visits could take place in her room.

That way, the children could limit their visits and walk out when she becomes nasty again.
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Do not subject your children to your mother. Allow them to do things away from her. Every few months ask her if she would like to see your children. If she would tell her only if she is kind and loving.
Dementia is complex and different for everyone. Your mother is suffering. Proof is her abusing your children. Don't attempt to rationalize her anger at your children. The 'blame' is her dementia. She will more than likely die from dementia. Be kind to her. Later, you will be proud of yourself. Explain to your children that your mothers ugly words comes from her disease. That you will protect them from your mother. Even apologize to them for your mother. Love, Al .......my mother died of dementia after ten years.
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TakeFoxAway May 18, 2024
I did not know you could die of Dementia. I did know that you could die of Alzheimer’s
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I truly believe they’re different based on who it is. My mom has been going quickly downhill for the last 3yrs. Shes 80 & the youngest of 9 w/5 of them having dementia. My mom is horrible to me. I’ve 3 siblings who do not get the mother that I get. Im cussed out daily, I’m called a liar, a thief, you name it. A very strange accusation is that I know every African American person in our city. I do not. I’m also the person who handles all bills, Instacart orders, laundry & house supplies. We can all be together and my mom is “hi honey, how’re you” to everyone in the room until she sees me. You can see the visual change in her expression towards me. That does not however stop her from depending on me. She’ll call me several times a day making sure I paid whatever on time. Now let me go back 30-35yrs. I’m 60 now. As a late teen, 20’s person I did not have my $#!¥ together whatsoever. My mom and I bumped heads about any and everything so that was a tough part of my life. I believe with my mom’s dementia that, that is where she’s at time wise. She’s back in the chaos I created even tho I’ve been an excellent mother, grandmother with a professional career. That’s not how she sees me, she sees the young lost woman I was at that time. So yes, I think they compartmentalize people differently based on history with that person. I could be wrong, I often am
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MargaretMcKen May 18, 2024
That's very interesting take on 'time warp' reactions being involved!
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Zeeh79: Your mother in law no doubt requires placement in a managed care facility.
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