Mom is 91, has moderately severe dementia and NPD. Brother, 60, is former meth addict, NPD, Borderline PD, TBI, and has moved in with her. He is the type of narcissist that can talk for 1 hour without taking a breath and doesn't even know it. He uses anger, self-pity and charm as forms of manipulation to get my mother to do whatever he wants. He is extremely competitive and jealous of anyone who has even a little bit of my mom's attention. I choose not to go no contact due to being in charge of her trust (there is a large inheritance that I don't want my brother to steal). I am working with a therapist who says I should study Gray Rock and recommends that as the way to go. Can anyone share some insight or tips from personal experience with me? Thank you
I tried to get others together for "special" days, it was easiest to go to the MC place and pay them for the meal (get more food and nicer meal for less elsewhere!), but it is a lot of effort just trying to get an answer and then trying to get everyone at the same time/day. I think my coordinating days are OVER. Sitting home alone with my cats, no matter what day of the year it is, could be preferable... ;-)
I agree with janeinspain - bring someone else with you when you have to visit mom or talk to him. He doesn't need to know why and will likely "behave" when someone else is there. At least you are aware of how he is and that he can "turn on the charm", but also can turn that off in an instant!
My OB was abusive to me when we were young (physically, verbally, emotionally.) As we got older and spent less time together, it did seem to get better. Being separated as adults, only seeing each other on occasion and others would be there, his "behavior" seemed okay. I was concerned about my niece when I observed some of his treatment of her, but had no idea how bad it was. She and I have talked about it since.
He came here several times to help clearing out mom's condo. Last time was May 2018. I should have realized I had been given some warning signs during previous visits, but missed them. This last time he actually got very angry and crossed the room to throw me to the floor, twice. I told him to get out and the whole time he was packing up he was yelling and nasty! Two days later he shows up with a car load of crap from mom's to drop off. Not only do I not want this crap, I want nothing to do with him and wouldn't open up. Clearly he forgets all about the issue after it is over, but not me, not this time! He also is one to blame everyone else for whatever and criticizes everyone he works with or does any business with. Although he didn't stay home with mom and dad, he IS the golden boy. Often she will ask if I have heard from him. When I visit mom, I get "Oh, what're you doing here?" and/or "Where'd you come from?" When he showed up it was like Jesus came down from the cross!!! She fawned over him like there was no tomorrow! The most ironic part is he has no idea how to deal with her dementia and will likely never visit again (he isn't local either, thankfully. he will NEVER be welcome in my presence again and I have no plan to even talk to him ever again.) I had encouraged him to run up one morning with coffee and donut before we head to cleaning. The next time I suggested he go visit, he said he doesn't know what to do with her! THIS from one of two brothers who both said they'd take her in for the money it costs for MC (they had NO idea how expensive it is!)
So, yeah, don't go there alone. Although for now he seems more like the verbal/emotional abuser, you never know...
PS After this incident, I did some research. Although it is not well studied, there are indications that sibling abuse is more prevalent than any other form of domestic abuse! Most people chalk it up to sibling rivalry, boys will be boys and all that blather. There is a HUGE difference between sibling rivalry and abuse! Although they never did anything about him otherwise, they did move him upstairs before it was finished because they were afraid he was going to kill me at night (we had to share a room before that.)
Perhaps the therapist has other visuals for you to incorporate into your visits.
I had read about 'grey rock' on this forum & tried it out today. She first tried oh pity me, then charm, then oh pity me again, looked confused... then tried charm again & finally tantrum. I left the room at that. GREAT tool! (I'll need to practice).
I was exhausted after 10 mins with this beast... like meeting an octopus who charms you closer then tries to squeeze the life out of you.
If NO contact is not possible, then LOW as can be contact + grey rock.
Thankyou for raising this topic.
As an emotional person, gray rock is hard for me but you get better with practice. Visit as little as possible, avoid being around when her suck-ups, yes people and sychophants are there. Talk as little as possible and use a neutral tone of voice. Tell her only good things about your life--don't admit flaws or problems--they'll use it to smear you. Don't let them see that you are in pain, depressed or hurt--they'll enjoy it and feast on your wounds. Leave as soon as possible and stay gone as long as you can. Don't try to convince her of what's wrong or right--they don't care. Use the system to force to do things she needs to do but won't. For instance, my mother was driving almost-blind and wouldn't stop. She didn't care that she might kill someone so I turned her in to the DMV and they revoked her license.
I was completely estranged for 15 years and then went back for almost three years to try again. It was worse than before so I left again and will not be going back, ever. She's ruined the whole family so there's nothing there anyway.
Good luck. I hope you don't have to endure this much longer!
For many of us, being kind, helpful, etc is second nature, but when they take advantage or verbally abuse you, I would certainly not stick around. It was good of you to give it a second chance so many years later, sad that it wasn't any different. No real loss for you at this point.
Before our mother developed dementia, phone calls and visits were often negative, but she was lambasting everyone and his/her mother (gee, now that I write this, I wonder where my OB got this habit!!!) I just let her go on and on. I also figure she was talking negatively about me to others as well. Once in a while I tried defending the others, but usually not. It would be futile. I had such a store of negative crap in my head - certainly can't repeat it to those people she was talking about. I used to think gee, if all those family and friends knew what you really think, you'd be soooo alone, no one would want to be around you! But she'd put on the nicey-nice face and entertain them, then talk behind their backs. Pretty scummy.
The last time she brought up my former SIL, I swore the next time she starts on that topic I was going to tear her a new one! They had been divorced for years and she never took a dime from my brother (I suspect now I know why she left!) She also criticized my other SIL, mostly surmising what SHE thought of her. The bigger issue for me was that the first SIL passed away in the hospital after some kind of surgery years before all mom's more recent negative crap. Jeez mom, the woman is DEAD, LET IT GO!!! I didn't get the chance though. She started down the yellow brick road and hasn't mentioned her since (thankful for that at least!!!)
Some people wonder why I wouldn't even consider home care... NOPE! I am the one who handles/manages everything for her, see to her care and do the visiting, but even that is getting tedious - before the oh-she-raised-you people start: She's very hard of hearing so just trying to have a simple conversation is torturous (esp when they laundered her hearing aid and lost the replacement in about 2 weeks.) Previously I could tolerate the repetition and having to get around some of the hearing issues, but it wasn't too bad then. I got her a little LCD tablet that I can write on and hope for response (nothing if SHE doesn't want to address it.) She is pig-headed about most everything. She had some falls and refuses to stand or walk with the walker now (we had her checked, no pain, no real injury, OT/PT ordered.) When OT/PT came, she refused to even make a simple try. Told THEM to do what they wanted her to do. When I said you need to walk, she replied I DO. She does NOT. She sits in the transport chair and either waits for someone to push her around or scoots it along with her feet if no one is around to move her. I tried to give her a note to encourage walking so she won't end up in a wheelchair. She tossed it away without even reading it. NO WAY will she live in my house. I have enough to get through the day myself without having sad sack there criticizing everything, complaining about everything and demanding to be waited on hand&foot. She will NOT do something she should do if SHE makes up her mind that she isn't going to do it. I do NOT need that kind of behavior around me. She'd also be stuck in my house all the time as she cannot do stairs and the only access is a full flight (so she couldn't even get in!) If she needs help to get up, down or about in any way, I cannot support her weight either. No walk-in tub/shower. House is only half renovated, no money to get it finished, plus I have cats (she HATES pets), so it isn't a safe place for her. If she fell, she'd not only take me down, but probably crush me too!
"I hate you, why don't you die, I want you dead' and such crap. I got where when she did that, I'd reach up and twist my hand like turning her off. That really blew things up. Not long later I got hearing aids and would make a show of turning them off.
The big thing about Hate is: "Hate will destroy the hater long before the hated"
I've seen that several times. I just reply: "that means I won't have to put up with you much longer" "what do you mean?" "your hate will kill you soon". Couple neighbors, wife, a girl friend, guy at work that thought i'd one upped him and never knew what I'd done he was referring to. One thing in common: They're all dead!
I bought a big old boat and when she'd get to ragging I'd just go fishing and spend the night about 60 nights a year just to get away from it all.
I'd never heard of gray rock til this.
Here's another thing many of you may not know. Wife sprayed furniture wax in my face one day after I'd asked her to wait til I got out of the room. Since then I've had bad allergy problems. She knew strong smells attacked me bad. While she was dying from cancer she got some of the most obnoxious stinking stuff in a bottle and set it around. It took my breath so bad one day I went to the allergy clinic nearby and had to go thru three full treatments before testing showed my breath was still just a third what it should be.
When I told the dr. he called and told her: "IF you put anything out with smells that bothers him again I will call the law and report you, knowing it bothers him and still do it is the same as pulling a knife or gun on someone and the court will put you where you can't do it again". Then he wrote the same thing in a letter and had it signature to addressee ONLY so she had to sign it.
Best wishes to everyone dealing with these people.
Uh, become boring to the narcissist?
I think I already have that covered. Lol.
Once we were back in our house (he was not), he would still do this. So, during one call I paused for a bit to consider what to do/say next, knowing that the buttons had been pushed and I don't like arguing. It wasn't but a few seconds, but he chimed in with 'Aren't you going to answer me?', and I said no, because if I do we will get into an argument and I don't want to argue. He went into a TIRADE! So I calmly hung up and took the phone off the wall (unplugged) so that he could call back, it would ring for him, but not for me! Then I resumed what we were doing before he called.
This method does work, but it can be difficult to maintain it - it will take some determination and strength on your part. Inside you can be seething, but maintain calm on the outside, bored look, don't "rise" to the bait and watch them (sometimes) go ballistic. If he did that in front of me rather than on the phone, I might have actually laughed at him!!! It is basically a win if YOU bring them to this state. Then just hang up or walk away.
Amen to this.
I keep in mind this very short sentence when the narcissist is in a tirade:
Insecurity is loud. Self-confidence is quiet.
So be quiet!
Thanks for mentioning an unfamiliar term. After googling Gray Rock, the technique sounds effective. If someone is truly addicted to drama, I call them "drama kings" or "drama queens" because to them, harmony is boring. Everything, each situation must contain conflict, ways to demonstrate their emotional power, and many times no money is involved, it's just the satisfaction of "getting their own way," as we as kids used to put it. It's very difficult to be dispassionate, so put on your Helmet of Knowledge, Shield of Protection, and raise the Sword of Truth, ha! Best wishes.
This is so true, especially recognizing how transformative it can be to try to be altruistic rather than narcissistic. Thank you for this post.
We have so much to deal with as caregivers & in life in general & need to find ways to cope. This discussion made me think about when it's obvious that someone is using a learned technique on me. If I wasn't so darned angry & frustrated it almost makes me laugh sometimes. At Mom's nursing home, after usually listening politely to me complain or request something, I see the social workers' eyes go blank, they then promise to do whatever they think I want to hear, and then that's the last of it.... until I bring it up again later. Then... Listen politely, Promise, Ignore.... Repeat.
My brother is a doctor. When we were kids he often made a point of taunting & riling me up to the point of tears. As an adult he still does it occasionally, but now he knows when to shift to his Calm Doctor Voice & Demeanor, especially if anyone else is around, so it makes me seem like a raving lunatic. Will definitely try Gray Rock with him.
I was tutoring the child of a celebrity who had nannies and housekeepers waiting on them hand and foot. The child took his pet rat out of the cage and attempted to scare me with it. When he got no reaction, he said his nanny always screamed when he did that. With a blank face and monotone voice I said, "I have 2 children. There's nothing you can do that woul scare me."
He put the rat away and got to work.
Thank God it was not a snake. 😜
I too had to google Gray Rock. I like it! Thank you for asking your question!!
Sometimes it's difficult to act interested - now I won't feel I have to, lol.
That's what Google had to say on the subject.