Family Meeting--what to discuss?
Y'all know my story. 88 yo mother lives with brother in small apt attached to his home. He is her primary caregiver--(and very defensive about the role). She allows me to come in a few times a week, but still looks to brother for all medical advice, etc. They have a very weird relationship--- Mother is failing. She has been sick since about the first of Nov. UTI, URI, one ER visit to rule out anything "serious", more GI problems, vomiting, not eating...I really thought she was not going to live through Christmas. She is "better", but not back to baseline of Nov. Much less mobile, much frailer, often bladder incontinent, less able to string together words and sentences--I know that one serious fall will do her in. My other 3 siblings are mostly MIA. They don't know nor seem to care what happens to mother. I get it, she would never have won mother of the year, but she IS our mother, and we all need to be on the same page, carewise. I emailed everyone and asked for a family meeting (just sibs, no spouses) and asked brother with POA to bring mother's LTC policy and anything else he feels appropriate to know. I actually have them all coming over Tues night. Amazing. Mom needs more care. About 6 months ago I had her ready for an in home care company to come in 2xs a week. Brother talked her out of it ("they steal from you, they'll steal your identity"--basically he preyed on her worst fears and she balked.) I actually WORKED for this company for years and I was pretty offended that brother kind of threw me under the bus.... Anyhow--going forward--please help me think of topics we need to discuss. I can GIVE great advice, but this is my own family and I feel frozen. Mother has mild-moderate dementia, brother says she's fine. His plan is to keep her home until she dies. He said (a direct quite) "when she can no longer walk, I will install a Hoyer lift above her bed, hoist her up in the morning, change her diaper and plop her in a wheelchair and park her at the kitchen table for the day". Uh, no, pal, this is inhumane. So--she has funds for in home care, also for a moderately priced ALF--but she's too frail for that, I fear. Money is not an issue, 2 of my sibs are wealthy beyond their needs, so we don't have to worry (luckily). Just need some topics and questions we can banter about. I've tried and tried to get all my sibs to have this meeting for a couple of years--now mom is so sick and frail...it's like we're too late, but I'm going to do the best I can. Thanks in advance. Any advice welcome!
Blocked is good too.
In any event, you pulled the curtain back. You done good, kiddo. Step back and let the others do what they wish.
I have actually heard this before. I know a lot of firemen, a few EMT's, and most the firemen I know are truly good people...but mixed in with that bunch, yeah, I can see it.
He most assuredly "got off" on screaming at me in front of shocked siblings. I did ask them if they knew he was going to do what he did and they all said they absolutely did not, and didn't agree with him. Well--nice, but could they have SAID something at the time. I think we were all blown away by his vitriol.
After the fact, he posted on FB that it was simply a "cleansing rain". I replied and called it a monsoon and defriended him. Cause I can.
He made a scene because he had an audience, and "got off" on seeing the pain his antics caused you. Good for you for deciding to "Go your own way"
BUT--I am going to be fine. Anger is de-escalated and I will have my hubby home this weekend to talk to (I ask him for 15 minutes of his time to let me vent, and then I really try to never bring up stuff like this again.) Going to hangout with some lovable grandkids today so their mama and dad can celebrate 19 years of marriage!!
Many, many thanks!
So happy we all survived the meeting, the post-meeting meetup, and
then therapy was the best! Healing is on it's way to you! Thanks MidKid,
for letting us learn through you.
Just returned home from an "extended" therapy session. My therapist is wonderful and amazing and always brings me back to "centered". She helped me to see that this is all Bert's problems, his inability to cope healthily in life and his weird co-dependent (Stockholm Syndrome?) relationship with mother.
The abuse that three of us suffered was horrendous. It doesn't define me. I am not a victim. BUT...it's still something I have to live with and deal with on a daily basis. Bert has not chosen to do so (therapy) as sister and I have, and he is still extremely angry at our abuser. Also at Mother for allowing it to happen (turns out, she DID know he was being abused and wouldn't let him continue therapy as a young teenager).
Who knows what his designs are? I sure don't. To make mother as miserable as he was/is?
It's just so sad.
I'm all done being angry, I am at peace. We accomplished what needed to be accomplished, despite Bert's ranting and raving.
I actually do know that I will find healing---it's a 3 steps forward, 2 steps back kind of therapy.....slow, but I am getting better. Someday, I hope to be well.
Thanks, again, for the support.
It is because you are the truth-seeker, the peace-maker-and many other good things.
Liars, controllers, and abusers will come after you, thinking you are weak, but you are not weak.
Barb--you must KNOW Bert--he IS an idiot and he IS mentally ill.
There is a history of abuse in my family, oldest brother, now deceased, sexually, physically and emotionally abused me, Bert, and now, I come to find out, my youngest sister. I mean, this was serious stuff, prison-worthy stuff.
I shoved it was down inside and self-hated. Bert ate himself to 400+ lbs, sister was promiscuous for years. None of those are good coping skills. Mother was "aware" of some of the abuse, but since we had a "picture perfect" family, we were told to shut up.
I only truly acknowledged that this had happened about 2 years ago, I am currently in therapy, working through these hard issues of self hate. I really do not know if I will live long enough to be "well"..and after days like yesterday--I feel that there is no hope. I'm SUPPOSED the be creating a support network--but all I've done is make people, including my own family, upset and unsure how to "deal" with me.
Sister at least got to confront brother and he DID apologize to her, before he died. She implied that the fact I am still getting therapy means that I am simply malingering and need to "get over it" as she says she did. Oldest sister asked her if part of the reason she married her last husband, who is almost 20 years her senior, is that she was looking for a father replacement. Who knows?
The 2 sibs who were "left alone" are speechless in the face of this. Their childhoods were free from the constant fear that living with a sexual predator brings.
Last night, Bert showed his true colors. He ranted, screamed, raved.....and effectively shut me down and out. I do NOT know why he picks on me to blame--he says he loves me, but he sure doesn't act like it.
In time, this too will pass. Hubby called from out of town today. I told him briefly what had gone on. He just said "Bert is so mentally ill, it's amazing he can hold down a job, much less function in the world." No words of solace, which would have been nice, but hubby doesn't DO emotions.
And yes, 3 new sets on eyes on the mother. I can step away and not be missed. I have done it before and I will probably spend the rest of my life alternating in and out of her graces. Since I cannot visit now w/o going through Bert, I will simply opt out of going to see mother at all. It was never me she wanted anyway. And I know now what the EOL plan is for her. And I know that Bert HAS to accept that there may come a time when he cannot be 100% in control, and will have to accept help for mother.
So our meeting did accomplish the few goals I had. Just really rough on me.
Thank you all so much---this too shall pass. Therapy tomorrow, which is always helpful. I'll work it out.
I agree with several posters here. As hard as it is, I would step back and let go for at least some time. Keep in touch with the other siblings and pray for your mother, as well as your brother. He needs it. What ever you would pray for yourself, - serenity, joy, faith, health, pray for him. This is more for you than for him.
I too, have a controlling older brother who has all the legal authority, who can also be abusive and bullying, though he reigns this in because he really needs our help in caring for both of our parents. I have to pray and ask for protection (not physical) and guidance before every encounter with him. In the last year I feel that he is losing the ability to stay on top of things due to the stress, yet he refuses to allow me to help with some of the legal, and financial matters. Be good to yourself in the next few days as you recover from this verbal attack. Your mind, as well as your body, needs time to recover.
He's mentally ill and he's an idiot besides .
All I wanted out of this meeting was for all 5 of us to be on the same page and all know the same things about Mother. Bert takes her to the Dr's and such, and never tells us ANYTHING. Last night he "hinted" at her having something really serious and that she wasn't going to last 3 more months. However, he stopped talking before we could figure out WHAT is wrong.
I KNEW there is not enough money for a "decent" NH, and I only approached that as an EOL possibility. Bert screamed at me that I have been "ragging on him" for years about putting mom in a home. I couldn't even talk to him--he's so off the point. He INSISTS that ALL NH's are run by "18 and 19 yo kids who want to get into Nursing School and they routinely abuse and steal from the patients". I had to make the point that I KNOW several nursing homes and they are nothing like that. He said "This is what I do for a living. You don't know anything!!" (He's an EMT, spends 90% of his day taking pts top appts. So yes, he sees some cruddy places. But they are NOT all like that.)
He gets something out of this control he has over mother. He and his wife, both. One thing they do is keep the house locked tight. Many times I have gone to see Mother, I know she's home, but I can't get in the house. I used to know the garage code and I'd go in that way, but in gently asking for it last night, in the off chance I might need it, saying "what if I go up there and KNOW mother is home, nobody is home, what do you want me to do? Call 911?" Bert blew up again. He said it's illegal to call 911 on somebody's home w/o their permission. Said if I come up and she doesn't answer the door, to just leave.
Honestly, in retrospect, he is so mentally ill, I don't think he can think straight. His control over mother's life is sick--really. He will not inherit more than I do, or any of the other sibs. She doesn't pay for anything but 1/3 of the electric bill. She doesn't pay rent....(of note: he has 5 grown adult children living at home. Ages 19-31. He has terrified them all so much of the "outside world" they are all scared to leave. ALL of my kids were out of the house by 21, at the latest. I think this points to his need to control EVERYONE in his purview)
Also, we have NO WAY of knowing if what he says he does for Mother. She says he does next to nothing--but evidently if I do something (like make her lunch or do her dishes, she explodes at Bert and he has to deal with her wrath). This just sounds fishy to me.
Anyway, to answer one question--all the time he's yelling at me, the 3 other sibs are just sitting there. No support, just silence. I looked at my older sister during one tirade and said "You feel this way too?" None of the 3 admitted nor denied anything. Just sat there. (In fairness to my other 3 sibs, they are SO disinterested in mother, they don't even THINK about her. Literally. Also, they simply don't DO confrontation, Period. Something they inherited from Daddy. I'm considered to be super-hysterical by the rest of them)
Oh, being a 'fixer' and seeing a problem and not being allowed to do a single thing....
BTW-the first call to APS was some years ago and I believe it was a neighbor. Bert was almost hysterical over that one.
Still really sad and hurting today. I do not expect a text or email or a "are you ok?" message from anyone. Problem was solved. the 3 MIA sibs will make weekly visits. That is really all I was ever asking. For them to step up a little.
As for me, I am STEPPING AWAY.
Our family is fractured beyond repair. That makes me sad. And somehow, It's entirely my fault, again. How often is it that by trying to do the right thing, you make everything worse? Probably a lot.
Oh--one side note--my younger sis did get involved 2 years ago when mother was trying to get her surgeon to replace her other hip. Sister asked mother if she could go into the apt, which she agreed to. This came up last night--Bert turned on her and screamed at her that she had violated HIIPAA and she had no right to do that. She had NO RIGHT to be in that appt. Sis calmly replies "I work in risk management for the biggest hospital chain in the state. I know my laws. As long as mom said I could be there, I didn't violate HIIPAA." He shut up, fast, but was openly angry at her all night.
So--this is my family, I kinda hate Bert right now, quite a lot, but I'll get over it. Mother will die someday and it won't be on me. I did my best, this time, I completely give up.
Sorry for the very overlong post. Just ranting.
Now that the other sibs have agreed to each stop in once a week, they can be in the best position to report Bert too APS. (Who reported him the other time?) One thing I've noticed is that you seem to be more concerned about your mother than the others....why is that? You certainly weren't her golden child.
If she is still competent (which she is, right?), then she is living the life that she wants. Bert may be keeping her hostage (and I do agree that some of what you describe sounds like neglect, if not outright abuse), but she must like it that way? Is it really a case of Stockholm Syndrome?
Well, Mom won. It always amazes me how some mothers can play their kids off against each other. Your mother tells brother one thing and then guilts you for not doing more. The only way to sanity, for you, is to walk away and let your mom have what she wants. Which is to stay in her space with no interference.
Your mom is competent enough to complain to her friends. Her friends could pick up a phone and call APS, or your brother.
I think the only path for you to take right now is to acede to your mom's wishes and bow out the way your siblings have.
Visit if you feel the need. If mom asks you to do something, I'd quote what your brother told you if it makes you feel better.
Bert will allow this. Bert won’t allow that. Why does everyone give Bert so much power? Is there no one in Berts four siblings that is able to stand up to him - to tell him he’s acting like a jackass? What about POA brother? Surely he has some authority?
After all - she is all of yours mother - not just Berts. Yes - I understand she lives with him - more or less - but it’s not like that is the only option. Not if your better off financially sibs are willing to help out to the length you’ve described.
What I can’t fathom is what it is Burt is getting out of all of this. But if you actually suspect that “pay-back” may be the root, you need to have one of your sibs on the lookout. Clearly it can’t be you. Bad mother or not - no elder deserves to be treated like a brainless prisoner - to be mechanical lifted and diapered once - then left to sit. And sit. Like you said it’s inhuman. Does Bert understand that his “custody” of mother can be legally challenged and her person removed from his home?
I recall you saying APS was once contacted on your mothers behalf regarding Burt. Have you reconsidered the validity of that call at all? I think I might - based on what you’re now describing.
Anyhoo - for sure the whole situation sucks. But I tend to think you’re well out of it - at least for the time being. But I am sorry you had to go through this cluster F of a meeting. Your intentions were good.
Take a break, rest and let other siblings intervene
One good thing.....your brother embarrassing himself like that will have repercussions and family may someday call APS to report his abusive and unreasonable control of your Mom.
Prayers now, for your quick recovery and peace of mind in the face of this horrid brother's behavior. Deep breaths, tears are okay too.
Do you need some medication now?
Is there more you want to say?
I have been in the role of persona non grata, told not to do dishes, etc. In a way, I have decided being in this space was safer than the abuse I would have received had I stayed involved. I was dealing with horrible and greedy people. But the patient has survived.
It could not have gone much worse. I had typed up a sheet with some bullet points to talk about, tried to get everyone to stay on topic, but brother mom lives with came loaded for bear. (He also brought his wife, which made me angry since I had specifically asked for NO SPOUSES! She is a sweetie, really, but she relays all this personal info to her parents, who live close to me and it's very uncomfortable!!)
Anyway, I lost any semblance of control immediately. Brother was angry and let us all know it. Finally, youngest sis says "why don't we each take 5 uninterrupted minutes to voice our concerns then move on". She said her bit, then other brother, who basically just agrees with everything (Dr No Shot), then as older sister begins, brother--let's call him Bert, for sake of clarity--just begins this tirade of anger. He is yelling so loud and being so mean...screaming at ME because if I come to mother's and do ANYTHING for her, evidently, she gets mad at him and he has to deal with her. I was shut down, 100%. I had to excuse myself for a few minutes to gain control (had started a migraine by then, so I needed to dose it)...went back in and he just kept it up. Sister was trying to make some really good points, such as, what can we do NOW to help mother? IS she really as sick as she seems to be? What can we do to help? And Bert is just shooting down every single thing anyone says or suggests. I folded up my papers and threw them away.
All I said in my 5 minutes, between screaming fits from Bert was that I was concerned as mother complained so much and it was so hard to know what was truly "real" and what was "fake". I am a fixer at heart and NOT trying to help is not in my DNA. Bert told me I was not welcome in the house unless he was home and I called first. The other sibs said he was being harsh--but it IS his house, and I can't argue.
In the end, all we accomplished was making me cry, and for doing GOOD things--evidently mother absolutely hates me touching any of her things and I am not to wash a dish, go to the store or throw out trash. I can come up and talk to her and I can do a puzzle with her, but no more. Mother has NEVER said she hates me cleaning for her, she always has a list of things to do....but, I'm shut down.
The other sibs just kind of sat there--Bert exhausted himself and began to cry, out of anger and frustration towards me. I could have been a bigger person and hugged him, but he was just so out of control. Also, I don't like him very much right now.
We did talk about EOL issues, and Bert let us know that HE and only HE is in control of mother's care. All the other sibs asked was that he please start keeping us in the loop.
Maybe he will, maybe he won't. He did say that he wouldn't be opposed to Hospice when the time comes, but he WILL NOT ALLOW mother to go into ANY kind of nursing home, long term care, in home aides, nothing. She will die at his home. Period. When I mentioned that he was NOT the only one with a voice in this, he blew up again--and I gave up. He has mother so brainwashed she will believe anything he tells her.
The only "good thing" that came, is that the 3 MIA sibs will now make sure they visit once a week. They have all 3 been truly Missing in Action...and NOTHING bothers them. I'm taking a couple months off. Bert hurt me so badly. Here I am trying to lift a load for him and I really thought he might hit me, he was so mad.
And yeah, this guy has some REALLY serious mommy issues.
Sitting here, weeping. b/c I feel such a failure. I am no good at confrontation, and truly, knew Bert would be angry, but, wow, I was seriously scared.
It's over and I expect we will never talk about this again. Bert can do as he pleases, I'm now persona non grata. My older sister did offer to pay for ANYTHING that's needed, as did my younger brother. They are both very wealthy. I didn't offer, as I can't do that, I'm not working and I'm not asking my poor hubby to foot the bill for anything.
All in all, it was absolutely horrible.