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Recently, my father’s dementia was diagnosed as Wernecke Korskoff. As well, Dr. stated that is unsafe for him to drive a vehicle. Issue is since he is being treated at a VA hospital, they are not allowed to report to the DMV for veterans privacy rights. I have spoken to our local DMV office and our state doesn’t have any Way, requesting a driver safety test of any sort? Must come from law enforcement or a doctor? At this point, my mother says he still drives from time to time again throughout the week. I tried to help as much as I can with their legal and financial issues, but , feeling like this is a battle I don’t think I should involve in any tips. Greatly appreciated. As always, thank you all for your responses

I found out that Medicare will pay 100% for taxi service to all medical appointments, to and from. I agree with all the suggestions here. I took the car keys off my dad’s key ring. I sold my dad’s car. I gave momma the money from that sale of the car. Daddy will go outside and look for the car, and I just tell him it’s broken beyond repair and it’s at my home. I will show him an old picture I took with the car parked at my home, before it was sold. Dad has dementia, and gets mad, but he’s off the road and innocent people are safer. I didn’t ask him, I told momma and she was happy about this decision and gave her permission to sell the car. We let him get mad, and we ignore his rantings. We are on the bank account, and have to be with them at the bank if they want to withdraw any money. We also have control over the debit cards too, we disabled their mobile app by telling the bank to stop and can’t access to online banking. So he cannot buy another car. Sometimes you just got to do anything to keep them safe. Don’t ask dad anything. Talk to your momma about what your doing and why. If he’s being mean, than there’s medication for combative behavior with dementia. We had to put dad on this medication, and it keeps him a lot calmer. Momma is a lot happier too. I get it, you don’t want to take away his rights, but if there’s no agency to help you than you got to take matters into your own hands. We took daddy’s license out of his wallet and cut it up. We took him to get a state ID before we cut up his drivers license. We told him we were renewing his drivers license, and told the clerk to play along and if he asks that is what you tell him. She went along with it. There are ways around your dad to do stuff to keep him safe and other people safe too. As long as he signs that title, tell him it’s to get the car fixed, you can sell that car and give momma that money. I tell any kind of lie to daddy to keep him safe and for me to not to lose my mind too. I delete phone numbers from his phone, to keep him from calling them to cause more trouble and problems. I put out his meds for the day, and take the rest with me. I just tell him that he put them somewhere, if he asks. I keep him busy doing something else, while I do what needs to be done in their home. He can’t argue, if you have him doing something else, keeping him busy. I hope this helps. Blessings
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Purplecheryl10 Aug 10, 2024
Where can I find information on Medicare paying 100% for taxi service of medical appointments for my dementia challenged spouse? Thanks
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You need to contact the BMV and have them send a physician form to his Psychiatrist to complete. It will ask if he has a mental or physical disability and if he should be tested for a driving test. The Psychiatrist will note he has Dementia on that form and he needs to be tested, then periodically after that.
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Ask his VA doctor for a referral to a civilian doctor - probably a neurologist would be best - to get the note you need.
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Deactivate the care. Remove the care battery and hide it.
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In your defense, I just learned how protective the VA can be over the privacy of veterans personal information.

My husband broke his glasses this week. Yesterday, I took them to a local store and asked if they could simply duplicate the glasses. I was told NO unless I had a prescription less than one year old signed by a doctor. I called our local VA hospital to request a copy of his prescription faxed to the store and I would purchase a cheap backup pair to use until his next VA eye appointment and get a new pair from the VA. I was told NO because of privacy issues but I could come in person to pick up a copy! I explained how difficult that would be and asked if I could speak to a nurse. Later a very compassionate doctor called me to see if she could help me. No they still could not fax the prescription but after discussing it, she agreed to have a copy be sent to me through the VA protected message portal. I received the message within 24 hours.

What is the deal being so private with eyeglasses?? No, it doesn't make total sense, however, it did reassure me that protecting veterans private information is taken serious by the VA.

On another issue, responding to @cover9393 "Or move to an area where most everything is either in walking or public transit distance."

I suggest that not even be a consideration for anyone with any type of dementia. Everyday there are folks with dementia (even mild) getting lost, hurt, and/or taken advantage of when they decided to simply take a walk. If the mom is capable then yes, the two of them together could consider this option. However, I would never move just for convenience of transportation for a person with dementia because it may not be long before the dementia progresses to where that is not even doable.
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KPWCSC Aug 10, 2024
For what it is worth, even though the doctor had someone send by way of VA portal a copy of my husband's prescription for glasses.... I just received a paper copy in today's mail. So, if you don't use the VA portal you could ask for a statement to be put in the mail. Of course, it will have to be mailed to his name and address so you would need to be able to intercept it so it is not thrown away.
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My dad had dementia and had a couple of accidents driving and also gotten lost and hours away from home. His neurologist recommended no driving and no financial decision making verbally to my dad with my mom present. My dad took no notice. So I asked the neurologist to give me and my mom two separate letters stating in his professional opinion, my dad should not be driving and was not competent to handle his own financial or business affairs.

i think the DMVs vary a lot from state to state, but in my state, I used the driving letter at the DMV and asked them to cancel his drivers license and replace with a state non- driver ID card which they did.

some states, you can call the DMV anonymously and report an unsafe driver and they will take it from there. Other states require a special driver competency evaluation which can be hard to schedule and there is no guarantee he will drive erratically during test conditions so I would be nervous of this approach.

it took me a lot of time and argument for me to convince my mom to go along with this not to let him drive anymore and to take away his keys and sell his car. What worked was me telling her in stark terms that if a child rode a bike out onto the street in front of him and he hit and hurt or killed the child, they would be sued for everything they have including the house. They would be penniless with nowhere to live. That got through to her and steeled her resolve.

I had a similar approach with the financial letter — sent it with my DPOA to his bank and IRA broker. It turned off his ability to access his accounts. He was doing all kinds of bad stuff there too. Watch out.

best wishes to you — it’s really very hard.
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My mom was exhibiting poor judgment in driving. At first I thought it was okay for her to drive if I was in the car. However, after many people told me she shouldn't be driving, it occurred to me that I wasn't safe either if I were in the car while she drove. Happened to mention this in her psychiatric appt. Next thing I knew, the DMV sent a notice saying that someone had reported a medical condition that made her driving unsafe. Her license was suspended and cannot be un-suspended without a note from a doctor saying that her medical condition had cleared up and she was no longer a driving hazard. Due to privacy issues, I was never able to verify that it was the psychiatrist that reported her medical condition (dementia), however I am sure it was the doctor.

I think you should talk to your Dad and maybe get his consent to stop driving when you consider it unsafe.

Does his driving make you feel unsafe in the car with him? Or are you just thinking ahead. If he argues the point, or agrees to stop when it's unsafe but reneges later when it matters - take his keys and put them where he cannot find them. It might entail an argument or many, but it will be worth it. Stress that you love him and are only thinking of his safety. You don't want to wait until it's too late. However, if his driving still seems okay maybe let him drive for a while longer(?)
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It is a very difficult situation. I found the MOST helpful answer EVER here but can't find it now. It was a list of things that should happen before it's necessary to stop the driving. Our mother drove way past advice but had no incidents and the only change was that we drove with her. Without our having done this, however, there would have been a terrible accident that I stopped. It's unfortunate that so many people make it seem easy saying "Take his license." This is not at all a fix and it sounds harsh. It is imperative, once they are exhibiting poor driving habits, to stop them from driving, but it is also imperative that we honor their dignity and not seem to usurp their authority. Sure, if someone doesn't care about their LO's feelings, it's easy to say, "They can NOT be driving..." I think each case is different but if your LO's driving is no longer safe, it is probably time for "Fiblets" or just plain lies. Enter their reality and try not to try and drag them into yours, as they will feel it unreal. Enter their space and be as supportive as possible and lie like a rug. If they see through your lies, they are not as far advanced in their dementia and then they may take a test which can be arranged through the DMV. This can be brutal, however, if they fail. That is our reality, not theirs. It is better, if possible, to come up with a car issue and have the car disabled. Maybe you can find that brilliant post that lists driver abilities that indicate they are still competent? Courage to you and the ability to enter their reality and lie with bravado.
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cover9339 Aug 7, 2024
Or move to an area where most everything is either in walking or public transit distance.

An example of how popular this has become, there is an apartment complex in an inner ring suburb of Cleveland, that is near big shopping area with 2 grocers (including a Walmart), post office, several restaurants, couple banks, a hospital, library, and a transit center nearby. Needless to say, there is a waiting list to get in.

This is what is needed in many areas, that way the person that can't drive anymore will see they can get along just fine without a car.
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MazemB: Disable his vehicle.
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I see you are in SC. Here is a link to a program in Columbia, there may be something similar closer to you but definitely worth the drive if not.

https://www.getcaresc.com/provider/prisma-health-richland-driver-rehabilitation-program

I have known several families whose LO went through it. It is my understanding that as soon as it is obvious that a person fails, the test is stopped and they are reported to the DMV.

Another option is you may want to ask his doctor for a written statement in a letter saying it is unsafe for your father to drive... with strong wording! If so, try taking that to the DMV and see if there is a form you can complete to start the process. If that does not do the job then put the letter in a plastic sleeve and post it on the refrigerator. Explain to him that is the reason he can not drive anymore and do something drastic at that time. (take keys, sell car, make it non-driveable, etc.) This may work temporarily but when he intends to drive show him the letter each time. Hopefully this could be a peaceful way.

You may want to do something like that anyway for your father to review from time to time if he questions why he can't drive. Not having a license does not always stop someone who is intent on driving.

I know it doesn't relate to driving, but my husband became very anxious about the military wanting to reactivate him. I tried to reassure him but did not want to outright say there was no way the military would ever want him again. He brought it up at the doctor's office and I asked if she could write a statement for him to show to anyone who tried to reactivate him. That was over two years ago and I still see him in front of the refrigerator reading her letter at times.
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If it was the doctor who told you he couldn't notify the DMV, I would try taking this further up the chain at the VA. Just doing a quick search on the U.S. Military Privacy Act, there are twelve exceptions to the prohibition on releasing information about a veteran without their consent. One of these is "compelling circumstances affecting someone's health or safety". This would seem applicable to your father's situation. His condition and his propensity to drive affects his safety, his wife's and the general public. You could also try suing, perhaps on your mother's behalf, to release the information. Compliance with a court order is another of the twelve exceptions.
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This happens a lot. One client with dementia I had a few years ago had a friend with dementia who was also still driving. He claimed he had just gotten back from driving to North Carolina. She wanted me to ride with him and her to the bank. I was like no fricking way! I told her and you are not getting in that car either. It was a mess that day! Finally, he got up to leave handing me a coffee cup saying thank you for the coco. I told him that he brought the coffee with him. Apparently, he forgot that he went to McDonalds and bought the coffee that morning.

I don't let clients and family members dictate what I am to do; and as far as riding with someone with dementia, I'm like; "Oh h%ll no! Take the keys already like yesterday!

Who pays when someone with dementia causes an accident? Having a person driving like this is endangering to themselves and to the public.
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I had to do this with my dad. Take the keys away, tell him he isn't driving any more.
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Calliesma Aug 7, 2024
I think that many of us will never speak "down" to our LO's and we've found it more helpful to enter their reality and when there, lie with love.
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Doesn't matter which flavor of dementia someone has, no one with any kind of dementia should be driving. Best to just to remove the car, disable it or remove keys permanently. My 80 yo mother refused to stop driving as well. She took the drivers test 3x and finally “passed” it and they renewed her license. It stipulated only daylight driving only close to home. About a week later she drove right into the back of a parked pickup in the dark. Totaled her small car and did a lot of damage to the truck. Also had several broken ribs etc. Thank God no one was injured or killed. She had to be hospitalized after that, then rehab then SNF so never went home again. 

I’d say do whatever you have to do, fib or truth, he won’t remember anyway. 
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Calliesma Aug 7, 2024
How terrible that they didn't see through the situation and kept allowing her to retake that test. This needs to be changed. You are SO lucky that no one was hurt. We are similarly lucky but I totally understand the reluctance to take the keys away. Yes, lying is the best option. We were told that if the doc. sent a statement to the DMV, they would never pass her. Luckily, we were able to avoid the test because she's agreed not to drive. Still, eyes wide open for when she forgets she's agreed... It's surely one of the most difficult part of dementia.
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Depending on the state you’re in, this is a huge financial risk. Doctors will not report to the DMV and there is no way to actually get his license canceled. But, if he has an accident, even if he is not at fault, the other party can take everything we have. This includes our house our savings are for in case, etc. this is a Texas state law, not to mention the fact that he could hurt himself or others. I would check the insurance rules in your state so you know what you are risking.
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Wendsong Aug 6, 2024
Tmmelody
You need an umbrella policy through your house/fire insurance company. I have one for 1M. It doesn't cost that much and will protect your home, etc., from most suits.
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It's so nice that WE know how well or safely someone drives.
Disgusting.
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waytomisery Aug 6, 2024
The doctor says it’s “ unsafe for this man to drive a vehicle “.
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Take his license. Disable the car. CALL HIS INSURANCE COMPANY! If they discontinue his insurance, most states will revoke the license. Do whatever you have to do to stop him from driving before he kills someone.
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funkygrandma59 Aug 1, 2024
AMEN! Short and sweet and to the point.
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Get his Dr to write a note he is no longer capable of driving. Take his keys (preferably when he sleeping). Disable the car or move the car off property if possible. Tell Dad car needs repair and it’ll be taken care of. Sell the car if no one can drive it. Eventually your Dad will forget about it.

If mom still drives, well, just have her tell your Dad that she needs to drive to help her keep her driving skills up. So whenever they go any place, your mom has her keys in her hand (your Dad won’t be able to find his keys) and she can say she wants to drive for a change. If Dad has dementia these kinds of “fibs” are necessary. Also, your mom will need to hide her keys where Dad can’t find them.

If neither mom or dad should drive, then you’ll have to make arrangements to get them where they need to be. Either drive them yourself or hire someone or family/friends can take turns driving them. Or there may be a service for elderly transportation in your area.
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MazemB Aug 1, 2024
A lot of good ideas, thank you
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Is your Dad taking meds like Donepezil or Memantine for his dementia?
If so, he should not be driving. It's a matter of reaction time. They prescribe these drugs for brains that can not process quick enough. They will not restore a brain for safe driving. Ex. Puddles appear on the road.
A driver must react very quickly to both avoid them and still stay in their lane.

I went through this with my Mom in her late 70's. She got a notice for a driver's test to renew her license. So I practiced with her and it was not good. I kept filing for extensions for her until that ran out. Finally she took that test. The instructor said she should never get behind a wheel again. That was the end of her driving.

She had me so she had no need to drive. If your Dad must drive try to get him to accept he must do so when the roads are mostly empty.
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lealonnie1 Jul 31, 2024
Her dad needs to stay OFF THE ROAD and NEVER drive. Period. Regardless of what drugs he takes or whether the roads are mostly empty.
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MazemB, my 95-yr old Mom just had her license cancelled by the Dept of Public Safety (here in MN).

She took a "virtual" driving assessment through OT in our clinic network. They gave her a written test for executive function (judgment) and a physical reaction time test that involved standing in front of a large board covered in pressable buttons. They would light up and she'd need to press them. There were 4 versions of this test. She failed both executve and reaction testing. Then OT had to put it in her medical record and my Mom's primary doctor saw it and had to report it to the DPS. Then DPS sent out a letter of cancellation.

Maybe it's because your Father didn't take a specific driving assessment test? I would call your DPS and ask how to stop an unsafe driver.

FYI, Mom was very resistant to even seller her car. It's taken her about a month or 2 to come to acceptance. I didn't want to go to battle over the car and told her I wanted to give her the dignity of giving it up voluntarily. This acknowledgment seemed to help.

One final thing: I had an Uncle and Aunt whom I loved a lot. They built a 60-truck plumbing contracting business and were still going to the office part time in their early 90s. My cousins should have taken his car away. One day they were coming home from work in the afternoon and he went right through a red light and got t-boned on his wife's side, killing her (a 2-time cancer survivor) and the dog that was on her lap. Thankfully, the other victims were not seriously injured. My Uncle was mostly unscathed but had a dramatic cognitive decline immediately afterwards.

Please, please work to help your Mom keep the car from your Dad. Your Mom should NEVER be his passenger.
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MazemB Jul 31, 2024
Thank you for your detailed post. Yes, I’ll continue to try to find solution. He isn’t going to take a test. I did notice his license expires 2027. But that’s a ways out. Thanks again
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After reading your replies , and
considering your mother is very fearful of Dad since there is a history of abuse ,
And since you say this isn’t a battle you really want to be involved in……

I would suggest that you tell your mother to leave him and take the car with her , and for her to go to a lawyer and get out of this abusive marriage . Short of that I see nothing else you can do .

The ball is in your mother’s court.
I hope there is only one car . If there are more , get rid of them , hide them , park them somewhere else until they can be sold .
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I used to have a neighbour with a car parked on the front lawn. Behind a fence - no gate.

The lady said her husband kept driving, finding the keys, getting angry at her. So she had someone build a new front fence & lock it up.

I don't think she drove herself so then relied on friends & taxis.
Drastic but it worked.
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waytomisery Jul 30, 2024
Its weird she didn’t just get rid of the car
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Your mother needs to put her big girl panties on and stop your father from driving TODAY!!! And you need to step up and either disable his car or take his keys away.
OMG! This issue of allowing folks with a broken brain to drive is so beyond maddening to me that I can't even see straight. Actually it makes me want to use some choice swear words, but that is frowned upon on this forum.
Your father driving with dementia is NO different than someone driving drunk or high on drugs, and God forbid that he were to hit and kill some innocent family or even your mother. Would you be able to live with yourself, knowing that you could have or should have done something to stop him?
And know too that if your father were involved in a horrific car accident and either severely injured or killed someone and it was discovered that he in fact had dementia, he could be sued for everything he has and he and your mother could lose everything.
PLEASE....it's not worth any of this. Time to take action now to save the lives of all those innocent people who haven't a clue that there's a man driving a deadly weapon with a broken brain on the same road that they're on.
Trust me, you'll be able to sleep much better at night as will your mother when he's permanently off the road.
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MazemB Jul 30, 2024
Yea, I kind of agree with you. Mom is simply scared to act in most of this solutions out of fear.
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Its hard to determine cognitivity. We had a police officer who knew his Mom should not be driving, she had ALZ. But until she had an accident and ALZ was determined the cause, her licence could not be taken away.
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I would confirm with the VA if this is true. Who told it can’t be reported? Aren’t medical and healthcare workers mandated reporters no matter what?
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MazemB Jul 30, 2024
I was at appointment with him at Va
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Your mother or you need to disable dad's car immediately. If they only have one car between them, then mom must do ALL the driving ALL the time, with no exceptions, and keep the keys hidden away from dad. When dementia is involved, no driving should happen ever. Period. Who cares if dad gets mad?

Do the right thing.
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MazemB Jul 30, 2024
Yea, def wish it was that easy.
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I'll be honest and say I'm VERY surprised the VA doctor "can't" report him to the DMV.

Here is why. My FIL saw both public and VA doctors. But his eye doctors were strictly from the VA. When they could no longer correct his vision to the required level, even with glasses - I can remember him saying to the eye doctor "I really hope you don't report this" or something along those lines.

And her words were "It's already been reported sir." This was a doctor employed by a VA Hospital and all appointments took place on the property of a VA Hospital.

Is it possible that the difference is because he could no longer SEE well enough to drive, vs no longer had the cognitive ability to do so? Maybe, but I find it hard to believe that they couldn't report it in some way.

Can you get the medical file and notes where they stated it is unsafe and provide THAT to the DMV, then take your father in for a driver's test so that he can "prove" to you that he is capable of driving?

Often the decision to remove driving privileges is left to the family. There are more subtle ways to prevent them from driving - but often they won't agree until someone forces them and makes sure they don't have access to a driveable vehicle.
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MazemB Jul 30, 2024
Yea, already tried with DMV and showing medical evaluation. In our state only medical doctor and law enforcement can give direction or request to DMV. Very unfortunate
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He could see a doctor outside the VA system, and he could private pay. Although it seems ridiculous that the VA wouldn't report this, so ask the VA if there are permission forms to fill out so that they can report to the DMV.

Whatever you have to do, you must do it to get him off the road before he kills or maims other people or even himself. This is nothing to take lightly. Why does your mother not make it her project to stop him? Disable his car, disable his key fob, remove the car, anything! How would you feel if you let this go and he kills someone?

My brother-in-law died on a beautiful Saturday morning when someone who shouldn't have been driving ran a stop sign and broadsided his car. BIL couldn't survive massive head injuries and died, leaving a young wife (also injured) and four children. I went to the accident scene a few days later to gather up things that had flown out of his wrecked car and saw bloody gauze that the EMTs left in the weeds at the side of the road when they were trying to stop the bleeding. Then I went to his house to cook dinner for his family. And I was crying all the way there and thinking, "Why didn't someone stop this guy from driving drunk?"

Someone may think that of your mom or you someday if you don't get your dad off the road, permanently.
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MazemB Jul 30, 2024
All very true, I would be ok if something as you outlined happened. He probably would forget after a few weeks. Unfortunately, so much of this falls on my mom’s efforts to stay the path and not allow. Issues with abuse though I think prevent her (out of fear) to take better action
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Your father is a danger to self and others.
You have reported him to the DMV.
Other than doing that, it isn't clear to me what else you CAN do, and I am utterly amazed that an MD will take no action in this, and would, instead, risk the lives of your Dad and anyone in his path.

I would go to the local police and discuss.
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MazemB Jul 30, 2024
Yes, tried both. No go in our state
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