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I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
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@FireBird15, I do not know if there is one specific way to convince someone. It took a long time to get my dad to agree and deep down I still think he does not agree with it but I think the deciding factor for him was when he realized that I was not going to quit my job, sell my house and move in with him. He knew he could not stay alone and we tried getting help to come in but he needed a team of qualified people. I helped him at home for as long as I could while working.
FireBird15: Personally I was just in an SNF (Skilled Nursing Facility) and was very grateful for the great care that I received. 'Convincing me' was never part of the equation. Ergo, I required AND received the services offered.
My mother tried to stay at our home as long as possible. However, after several fall injuries (back in 2012-2013), Kaiser would not release her back home. A social worker discussed safe discharge to a rehab facility. Once she recovered enough for assisted living, she went to a board-and-care, then later to a Medicaid license nursing home, unable to safely return home forever until she passed away in 2014.
I don't think you convince them. And you don't have to. If they are still competent enough to make this decision and they choose to stay at home, then you let them - until they deteriorate and it is no longer their decision.
If you are feeling burdened because you are taking care of them, then stop! If you don't feel you can (or should) do things for them anymore, don't. This gives them a false sense of independence. As long as they have you - or someone - doing things for them to make life easier, they will continue to deny they need help.
My brother and I are dealing with this now. Our mother, who is 94, has been in assisted living for one week. The daily phone calls to both of us where she screams at us for “abandoning her”, are hard to take. Our mother is not mobile, can’t stand up on her own and is declining cognitively. She is narcissistic and always has been. The only one she cares about is herself. I agree that you can’t convince anyone to go to AL. You need to just bite the bullet and sign her up. It’s heart-wrenching to hear our mother berate us after caring for her for 26 years since our dad passed, so plan for that. Wishing you all the best.
FireBird, please be aware of the forum’s resident hater of all things nursing home. Many of us have tried and failed to achieve some levity and compassion on the subject for those like you coming here facing this situation. You’ll need to disregard the misguided, blanket statements of hate. Your answer depends on the person you’re referring to, if there’s dementia, there is no expectation of them being able to understand or make a sound judgment. If there is unrealistic expectation of you providing care beyond your capabilities, you’ll have to be honest in saying you cannot sustain the level of care required in a home setting. I wish you peace and clarity in making the best decision in the situation
I was appreciative and courteous while in the facility.
When insurance cut off paying, which I had no hand in, the administration, notably the business manager and administrator acted like I did. Both turned nasty and wanted to discharge on one of the coldest days in NE Ohio, all without proper 30 day notice.
The SW wanted to make a name for himself, with the higher ups, so he did all he could to give them (and him) a chance to win. Appeal of discharge was scheduled, first they had almost 2 days to prepare, me, 2 hours (hand delivered by the one that was supposed to be for the residents, the SW). Then, during the hearing the reason for discharge changed from not needing the services anymore to non payment. The discharge to notice was to another facility, knowing that I would be quickly discharged from there. (that would be my problem, important I was out of the building)
They lost the appeal. Instead of the SW being supportive, he was upset that they lost, and begrudgingly delivered the notice as such. Even with that, he still wanted to get me out of the building ASAP, with trying to get me to go to a group home (no visit, little time to ask questions). Unfortunately for he, the owner was out of the country in Costa Rica and would not be back for a few days. No group home, he tried with another group home owner, no luck. I asked for a copy of any assistance programs, to help, he curtly said no to any copy.
I made the mistake of not trying for another appeal (even if I lost) which played into their hands. End result, no discharge planning or anything. Day of discharge, had to be out at 4PM, no transportation arranged, no assistance to pack my belongings, not even a goodbye or help to put my belongings in the UBER.
No proper discharge planning, no meeting with doctors, physical therapists, etc. Had to guess how I'm doing health wise.
So, yes, Daughter1930, if this makes me a hater of the facilities, then so be it. Again, I wouldn't put my worst enemy in one.
Yes, a facility is a last choice. Unfortunately, the individual may be forced into a facility after a serious event: an accident or illness at home or elsewhere. If the patient in the hospital is declared an unsafe discharge, the social worker may decide where to send the patient to, such as a facility for rehab or someplace for else for assistance of whatever condition requires help.
You convince them by saying, "Someone, I cannot possibly care for you any longer because it's killing me to do so. Therefore, you'll need to move into Lovely Gardens where you'll now be living.
Need a bit of clarification on what you are calling a "nursing home facility? Nursing home is a general term people use like "band-aid, xerox and depends" these have all become generic terms. Nursing Home, do you mean Skilled Nursing facility? Does the person have a chronic medical condition that requires medical care? OR Memory Care, the person has dementia of some type and you can no longer care for them or it is no longer safe for them to live alone or where they currently are living? OR Assisted Living, the person needs some help with ADL's (Activities of Daily Living) and can not either remain at home with a caregiver or family can no longer help as much as is needed.
The only one where a possible "forced" move can be done is into Memory Care, the person no longer has the capacity to make sound decisions when it comes to their safety and their care. The POA or Guardian makes the decision to place the person on a MC facility.
If the person has not been declared incompetent then they get to make the decision if they want to move to a facility that will meet their care needs. If you are a family member that has been "helping" this person to remain in their home and you can no longer "help" then you step back and if need be you call APS and report that this person is a "vulnerable senior" and they will follow up. If you can no longer help and the person is taken to the hospital you make it clear that to discharge them to home is unsafe as there is no one to help care for them the hospital can not discharge unless there is a plan for a safe release.
If the person has POA and has been declared incompetent to make informed decisions, then the POA can place them. At that point its not what they want but what they need.
Another is hospitalization and a Rehab stay. In Rehab you ask for a 24/7 evaluation. If found the person is now 24 /7 care, then you tell the Social Worker that its an "unsafe discharge" to return them home because there is no one to care for them. If they try to discharge, do not pick the person up. As soon as you walk through the doors with them, they are your responsibility. Don't let them tell u there is help, there isn't, not help u can get right away.
Some Rehabs have LTC attached. The patient can be transfered easily. They private pay for the care or if no money you apply for Medicaid.
There are many people here waiting for “the big event” where their loved one goes to the hospital and then when discharge time comes, the family can use the words “unsafe discharge” and not take them home.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I do not know if there is one specific way to convince someone. It took a long time to get my dad to agree and deep down I still think he does not agree with it but I think the deciding factor for him was when he realized that I was not going to quit my job, sell my house and move in with him. He knew he could not stay alone and we tried getting help to come in but he needed a team of qualified people. I helped him at home for as long as I could while working.
If they are still competent enough to make this decision and they choose to stay at home, then you let them - until they deteriorate and it is no longer their decision.
If you are feeling burdened because you are taking care of them, then stop!
If you don't feel you can (or should) do things for them anymore, don't.
This gives them a false sense of independence. As long as they have you - or someone - doing things for them to make life easier, they will continue to deny they need help.
I agree that you can’t convince anyone to go to AL. You need to just bite the bullet and sign her up. It’s heart-wrenching to hear our mother berate us after caring for her for 26 years since our dad passed, so plan for that. Wishing you all the best.
Your answer depends on the person you’re referring to, if there’s dementia, there is no expectation of them being able to understand or make a sound judgment. If there is unrealistic expectation of you providing care beyond your capabilities, you’ll have to be honest in saying you cannot sustain the level of care required in a home setting. I wish you peace and clarity in making the best decision in the situation
I was appreciative and courteous while in the facility.
When insurance cut off paying, which I had no hand in, the administration, notably the business manager and administrator acted like I did. Both turned nasty and wanted to discharge on one of the coldest days in NE Ohio, all without proper 30 day notice.
The SW wanted to make a name for himself, with the higher ups, so he did all he could to give them (and him) a chance to win. Appeal of discharge was scheduled, first they had almost 2 days to prepare, me, 2 hours (hand delivered by the one that was supposed to be for the residents, the SW). Then, during the hearing the reason for discharge changed from not needing the services anymore to non payment. The discharge to notice was to another facility, knowing that I would be quickly discharged from there. (that would be my problem, important I was out of the building)
They lost the appeal. Instead of the SW being supportive, he was upset that they lost, and begrudgingly delivered the notice as such. Even with that, he still wanted to get me out of the building ASAP, with trying to get me to go to a group home (no visit, little time to ask questions). Unfortunately for he, the owner was out of the country in Costa Rica and would not be back for a few days. No group home, he tried with another group home owner, no luck. I asked for a copy of any assistance programs, to help, he curtly said no to any copy.
I made the mistake of not trying for another appeal (even if I lost) which played into their hands. End result, no discharge planning or anything. Day of discharge, had to be out at 4PM, no transportation arranged, no assistance to pack my belongings, not even a goodbye or help to put my belongings in the UBER.
No proper discharge planning, no meeting with doctors, physical therapists, etc. Had to guess how I'm doing health wise.
So, yes, Daughter1930, if this makes me a hater of the facilities, then so be it. Again, I wouldn't put my worst enemy in one.
Yes, a facility is a last choice. Unfortunately, the individual may be forced into a facility after a serious event: an accident or illness at home or elsewhere. If the patient in the hospital is declared an unsafe discharge, the social worker may decide where to send the patient to, such as a facility for rehab or someplace for else for assistance of whatever condition requires help.
Nursing home is a general term people use like "band-aid, xerox and depends" these have all become generic terms.
Nursing Home, do you mean Skilled Nursing facility? Does the person have a chronic medical condition that requires medical care?
OR
Memory Care, the person has dementia of some type and you can no longer care for them or it is no longer safe for them to live alone or where they currently are living?
OR
Assisted Living, the person needs some help with ADL's (Activities of Daily Living) and can not either remain at home with a caregiver or family can no longer help as much as is needed.
The only one where a possible "forced" move can be done is into Memory Care, the person no longer has the capacity to make sound decisions when it comes to their safety and their care.
The POA or Guardian makes the decision to place the person on a MC facility.
If the person has not been declared incompetent then they get to make the decision if they want to move to a facility that will meet their care needs.
If you are a family member that has been "helping" this person to remain in their home and you can no longer "help" then you step back and if need be you call APS and report that this person is a "vulnerable senior" and they will follow up. If you can no longer help and the person is taken to the hospital you make it clear that to discharge them to home is unsafe as there is no one to help care for them the hospital can not discharge unless there is a plan for a safe release.
Another is hospitalization and a Rehab stay. In Rehab you ask for a 24/7 evaluation. If found the person is now 24 /7 care, then you tell the Social Worker that its an "unsafe discharge" to return them home because there is no one to care for them. If they try to discharge, do not pick the person up. As soon as you walk through the doors with them, they are your responsibility. Don't let them tell u there is help, there isn't, not help u can get right away.
Some Rehabs have LTC attached. The patient can be transfered easily. They private pay for the care or if no money you apply for Medicaid.
I have had NO relatives leave their homes willingly .
Quite honestly, you cannot convince anyONE of anyTHING.