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I didn't have one, but often counseling is needed if this represents a lifetime of abuse. We can carry that forward and we can suffer all our lives if it isn't addressed with professionals who are good at what they do. We get trained to expect abuse, and we create the same situations for ourselves long after the loved one is gone because we cannot forgive their human limitations and move on, building a good life for ourselves. I wish you good healing and a happy life. For me this is my one chance at it, and I won't give up a happy productive life. Please consider getting help.
Codependents Anonymous helps me. Sometimes there's a history of toxic behavior that gets worse with age or infirmity. It may have been there for a long time and you are now recognizing it.
I didn't realize how bad things were, because I thought all families were like ours. Now I'm learning how to recognize healthy people and set boundaries with toxic ones. It helps to be around people who have been through similar situations and can tell you that you are Not crazy and Not unreasonable. A lot of us are caregivers, too.
CoDA has meetings in person and online. If people hang around after the meeting, stick around. I get just as much benefit after the meeting as I do during the meeting. It's like a 2 for 1 bonus.
One way I’m trying to heal is by looking at the effects of verbal abuse, and seeing: (1) Do I have that problem? (2) What am I going to do about it?
Potential effects of abuse on the victim: —low self-esteem —depression —anxiety —physical symptoms —stress eating —time wasted —lost opportunities because your energy and time are spent on healing —you start believing the abuser’s lies —you start losing yourself. You miss your former self. You miss YOU.
Some of us go on to lead successful lives. Others are destroyed. I guess it depends on - how bad - the abuse was. And there’s an element of luck. And determination, to overcome and heal from the abuse.
Many years ago, I made a promise to myself. I haven’t fulfilled the promise yet. Never had a chance to do it. I’ll do it now. And I’ll re-post when I’ve fulfilled it.
My therapist used to have me go through 'what does' scenarios. "what does a loved and cherished daughter feel like? Can I achieve that when I am NOT that?
What does a childhood without abuse feel like? Can I overcome the past traumas or are they 'who I am?. I'm not doing a good job at explaining what she said to me. She has me create in my mind a 'healthy' version of myself. I don't naturally have one!
It's a slow and often painful process. Like healing from a deep physical wound. You heal, there may or may not be a deep scar, or there may be no signs. The challenge is to get to a place where the scars are not what defines you.
And NEVER giving up.
I have only just realized I do not have to take insults, meanness, disrespect or actual hatred from anyone. I can walk away. Sometimes that is what you have to do. Even with family, who should be our BFF's---but they can hurt us more than anyone else.
3 things i find useful when dealing with verbally abusive people:
1. make decisions for yourself.
abusers have a great desire to CONTROL you. to decide for you. to "OWN" you. emotionally abusive people often force you to put their needs, desires, and demands above your own. maybe they've been doing that your whole life. time to break free. you might not realize you're a prisoner.
2. re-learn your preferences.
you may have lost touch with your own preferences for things. spend time reclaiming yourself. do things that you enjoy without worrying about pleasing anyone else. abusers WANT you to be unhappy, and want you to refrain from seeking happiness - you might even start fulfilling their wish, because you noticed when you're happy, they treat you worse.
3. protect your self-esteem.
you're a wonderful person. don't believe the abuser's lies, garbage, nonsense.
I don’t know anyone who is still in contact with their narcissistic mother and/or father AND at the same time leading a happy life.
Maybe it’s impossible?
We see plenty of unhappy adult daughters being abused by their elderly LO, whom they’re caring for.
I haven’t seen a single person who’s able to maintain a happy life, while being in contact (whether that contact is once a month; every day; whatever), and helping their elderly LO.
It could be that the only way to be happy is to break off contact with any, and all, abusers, whether they are family or not family.
And if you choose not to break off all contact, then you know now, be prepared, because you’ll be unhappy for as long as they live.
venting - I was just thinking of that. For me it has to be very low contact or no contact. I did caregiving from a distance. I only visited mother a few times a year and then 1) I never was alone with her, someone else was always present and 2) I stayed less that an hour. The only occasion that I stayed longer was her 104th birthday party where there were a number of people present. It was a gathering.
Otherwise you are getting abused more and more and never have time to heal. Current abuse triggers the memories of old abuse - PTSD.
Thanks a lot for your reply! And thanks for “getting it”!
By the way, I do the same as you did: I now only see my mom when the caregiver is present. My mom still abuses me, but it’s less than when there are no witnesses.
Less than an hour…very good idea. Unfortunately, I stay much longer than 1 hour. I still help with a few things.
In any case, suddenly, it occurred to me today, that I don’t know anyone who’s happy AND has an abusive person in their life. Maybe the two can’t co-exist.
" I don’t know anyone who’s happy AND has an abusive person in their life."
Agreed - How can you be happy while being abused? So why stay in an abusive situation?
I know some psychologists say an adult who was abused as a child should never care give their abuser. I agree yet I did it and see others here doing it -and we all pay a big price with our mental and physical health. Other people can do the job of caregiving our abusive LO and, in retrospect, that certainly would have been better for me.
To elaborate, I never saw mother without having a person with me who was supportive of me. It reduced her opportunities to be verbally abusive. She still got a few shots in here and there but not many.
It would be good for you to reduce the amount of time you spent with your mother.
How do you heal?
Distance, distance, distance
Detach emotionally
Counselling
Build up your own life - include what YOU want in it, what is good for you, Remove what you don't want, what isn't good for you.
Right! Some people are able to develop tough skin. But even the toughest people feel pain, after getting abused again, again, again.
“So why stay in an abusive situation?”
The thing is, many of us abused daughters were forced into this situation of helping. Example: none of the siblings help, so you’re left holding the bag.
I’m an only child. Yes I can totally abandon my mom, never see her again, but I won’t do that.
Reducing contact? Definitely. Like you Golden, I’m at minimum contact.
Why am I still in contact? 1. I’m POA. I help with some financial things. We’re not comfortable delegating that to someone else. Unfortunately for me, some financial decisions can only be made with my mom’s input. Hence, contact. Hence, opportunities for her to abuse me.
2. If there truly would be ZERO tasks for me to help out with (let me imagine for a second, all tasks are handled by others), would I still have contact? Yes. My mom only has me as family. I would reduce contact even more, but not down to zero.
“It reduced her opportunities to be verbally abusive.”
EXACTLY. Abusive moms see contact just as OPPORTUNITIES to abuse.
I also see that it’s totally pointless to reason with her - about anything.
Any sentence I say - she starts fighting. She wants to fight, insult, yell.
“How do you heal? Distance, distance, distance Detach emotionally”
Yes. I’m doing all of that.
But. I haven’t cut contact. That’s a problem, because as I see today: it might be IMPOSSIBLE to be happy AND have an abusive person in one’s life.
I’ll figure out what to do. I do want to be happy.
“Build up your own life - include what YOU want in it, what is good for you, Remove what you don't want, what isn't good for you.”
Yes! Actually, the rest of my life is perfect. I love my job. I love my house (I don’t live with my mom). I have wonderful friends.
"Some of us go on to lead successful lives. Others are destroyed."
I think its the personality of the child. Some realize its abuse and get away as soon as they are old enough. And others, are easier to manipulate because they feel if they do what I am told, maybe they will love me. They end up doing the caring because they think "if I do this, maybe it will be appreciated and I will be loved for it"
I have a SIL who I have never fully understood and we went thru 10 yrs of not talking because of the way she treated me during a visit. On a trip South, a couple of weeks ago, we stopped at siblings' houses and stayed a couple of nights at ea. Had a pretty good visit with SIL. Of course, you wait for that shoe to drop. If she was not my SIL, she would not be someone I would want as a friend. My MIL was a person I did not get close to, too unpredictable.
I am so sorry you were abused. From what I have read Narcissists can be very abusive and manipulative. I think they are born this way and will never change because they won't or can't recognize their flaws. The only thing you can do, IMO, to help yourself is go no contact and work on yourself. Know your a good person. Get some self-esteem. Recognize your weaknesses and your strengths, we all have them. Then learn boundries. Learn to stand up for yourself. It comes down to I do not deserve this and I do not need to put up with it. Your an adult and deserve respect.
Your elderly LO needs your more than you need them. Remember this. This they need to know. They find out by you walking away. When they get abusive, you stop what your doing. Tell them when they can be nicer to you, you will come back but you no longer will take any abuse they dish out. If it continues, you will never come back. The State can take over their care. You will have no control over where u are put. You tell LO what ur willing to do and not do. You also tell them that as their child, you are not obligated to do anything. What you do is because you want to, not because they demand it of you. A thank you goes a long way. My Mom always said thank you.
There's a few longtime posters here that have laid it down from the beginning what they will do and won't do for a LO. And they don't waver. Its how they get thru caregiving knowing they have some control.
There r a lot of people in your shoes on this forum so you will have lots of support.
"Some of us go on to lead successful lives. Others are destroyed."
Yes for sure. But I don’t mean AFTER the abuse. For sure there are people who were abused in the past, and who later have happy lives.
I mean DURING the abuse. I don’t know anyone who’s CURRENTLY being abused, and who’s leading a happy life at the same time. I know plenty of abused people, on the contrary, who’re crying, unhappy, then recover some days later, then unhappy again: it’s the cycle of being abused.
“I am so sorry you were abused.”
Thanks for your words, really. And I’m sorry also, to hear SIL and MIL aren’t nice people.
“The only thing you can do, IMO, to help yourself is go no contact.”
In fact, I see that being in contact AND being happy, might not be possible.
"if I do this, maybe it will be appreciated and I will be loved for it"
Some abused people maybe are looking for parental love. That’s not why I help. I help because it’s the morally right thing to do. I helped set up caregivers for my mom. I helped solve financial issues for her (I’m a financial expert). Etc.
“You need to work on yourself. Know you’re a good person. Get some self-esteem.” “It comes down to I do not deserve this and I do not need to put up with it. You’re an adult and deserve respect.”
Earlier, I mentioned that Codependents Anonymous (CoDA) helps me a lot. I want to add that you don't have to label yourself as a codependent. CoDA is for anyone who wants better relationships. In my meeting, we introduce ourselves this way "Hi, my name is Firstof5 and I am Precious and Valuable." You don't have to say you are a codependent even if other people in the group do.
When you are dealing with a narcissist, it is normal to question your sanity and worthiness, you are not necessarily a codependent. Sometimes all you really need are tools to use. CoDA can still be useful.
Hi all! I don’t know if this helps anyone, but I noticed something while watching a movie:
It was a dispute between an abusive mother, and the daughter standing up for herself.
It was very clear, watching the movie, what’s going on. The mother wanted to start a fight. She wanted to pick on her daughter. She wanted to make it look like it’s a dispute. But it’s not a dispute. The daughter is just defending herself.
What I mean to say with this is that sometimes by being an outsider, you see much more clearly what the abuser is doing (their strategy).
If you’re being abused, you already know what your abuser is doing is wrong. But seeing it from the outside, makes it even clearer.
After that movie, I see even more clearly what my mom is doing.
She wants to fight.
Don’t fight. Walk away. (Unless the comment is so outrageous that you must stand up for yourself. But be aware, the abuser will just keep fighting (or ignore you), trying to make you feel worse and worse; and taking your time, energy, emotions, trying to rob your day, trying to ruin your day).
---second, abusers want to destroy you (not just control you). really. but doing it totally openly is illegal, so they do it by other means. slowly. verbally. emotionally. psychologically. they want to mess with your mind. make you UNHAPPY.
it's INTENTIONAL. they know very well what they're doing. it's directed at YOU. not at another person. they know what they're doing. and they'll behave better towards you if there are non-family witnesses: they ARE totally able to control their behavior.
---third, as i learned recently from another thread, abusers kill you a little every day. they try to kill your soul, your self-confidence, your happiness, etc.
you might not recognize yourself after a while. you might really miss the old you.
one must take being abused seriously. it has a lot of negative consequences on one's body/mind/spirit, that one doesn't realize.
---fourth, it's not possible to heal, while you CONTINUE to be exposed to the abuser. you're accumulating more abuse, while you try to heal old wounds. it's never-ending, and they'll never stop.
---fifth, abusers literally feed off making you miserable. they want to keep feeding themselves, and will do it to you again and again.
they feed off your emotions.
those hours/days you need to recover? those are exactly the hours/days they are having fun feeding off your misery. they don't need to see you to know you're miserable - they know you are. they wanted you that way.
---sixth, some mothers are the greatest enemy of their daughter.
make no mistake about it.
---seventh, you're in a prison, as long as you're in contact with the abuser. you are in some way, en-slaved. if it's an abusive parent, you have been all your life, unless you break free.
---eighth, abusers want to kill you a little, every day. and they do. they waste your time, emotions. how many years have you spent trying to heal from something the abuser did or said to you? do you miss you? the way you were?
---ninth, it's LITERALLY like this: take it seriously: every time you're unhappy, the abuser is happy 0 for you, 1 for the abuser (for the abuser, it's like a game. winning/losing) (counting points)
every time you're happy, the abuser is unhappy (might pretend to be a bit happy; might even genuinely sometimessssss be happy for you) that's 1 for you, 0 for the abuser.
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i wish everyone to be free from abuse. find a way. lead the best possible life you can!! :) :) :) :)
if you’re caring for an abusive elderly person, you’re in double-trouble, triple-quadruple-trouble.
caregiving is hard enough, without an abusive “senior brat”.
---here’s my 10th point on how to heal. i think these warnings from someone on the internet are important:
“As narcs are cowards, especially when you expose them with facts, they try to destroy you by any means.
Smearing you to the family, to anyone.
They even tried to use my dad against me.
Respect your boundaries, no one can harm you without your consent. If you always give second chances and try to use logic with them, you are wasting your time and life for nothing.
Empower yourself with knowledge and work on your personal issues, there you will improve and get results fast. Narcs will be terrified even if they cross your way.
It is up to you to be afraid or strong and confident.
For me, it is a life changing experience, cutting off all toxic people from my life, made me realize that I was the one who is wasting his life for nothing.
I feel confident, at peace and prepared for anything.
It does not mean that all my problems are solved, but I have a different and mature perspective.
All pieces of the puzzle took their place, there was a logic in all the pain that I suffered for 46 years, and hoping that toxic people will change with our love and attention.
Focus your love and attention to yourself, you need it the most.”
---11th point. for those who have an abusive elderly mother.
i think these words from someone on the internet are useful:
“A narcissist mother is the worst type of human being. It is a human being that I fail to understand in any way.
Instead of nurturing, she abuses her children and leaves them to deal with the damage for the rest of their lives.
Please do not allow such an abuser to hurt you. You have already experienced a very difficult childhood. So you are already fully aware what she will always say - criticism, criticism and criticism!
This narcissist is probably smearing her daughters because they can see through her and refuse to give her any supply.
Just stay away from this abuser. She never cared and she will never care. Please face the truth.”
I have to add though...if it were that simple, many of us would already have done so. There are circumstances where cutting narcs totally out of your life, isn't possible right now. But you can work towards to it.
Just an example: Your boss is a narc, and you need that job. You might be able to leave soon, but not right away. It'll take a while to set up a new job.
Just an example: Your family member is a narc, but for various reasons, it's not possible to avoid them completely. Cutting them out, might mean needing to cut out 20 other family members, because they will be flying monkeys.
No one on this thread has mentioned the weapon we all have to fight the abusive narcissist with.
IGNORING! PAY THEM NO ATTENTION WHATSOEVER! ZERO!
Attention is life to the narcissist. It's what sustains them. They don't care what kind of attention it is either. Positive adoration or even miserable negativity and fighting. So long as they remain in power and are at the forefront of attention. Even when it's fighting. Withold the attention and the narcissistic abuser starts to weaken. At first, they will try doubling down on the abuse of their preferred targets and may even seek out new targets to destroy, but they start to feel their power waning the longer they are ignored, and the longer attention is withheld. Starving a narcissistic abuser of attention is our weapon. When they see the only reaction their behaviors get is indifference, that strikes a real blow to them. So even if you can't quit a job right away because of a narcissistic abusive boss, or are temporarily stuck in the narcissistic abuser's house - You can still use the weapon of witholding attention and ignoring them. It works. You can make it really effective if the abuser is dependent on you to meet their care needs. No one has to tolerate or live with abuse. A person doesn't always have to move out.
It may sound cliche', but in my lifetime, I've been aided tremendously by the guidance of a couple older psychologists. Seek professional help for healing.
I'd suggest that once able to separate yourself from the situation, or even well before, you seek out the tools toward healing that a good psychologist can provide. I've found the help to be invaluable and apply these to many aspects of my life.
And know that once you've danced the dance of the NPD, you'll always, in future, spot them from a mile away and know to keep your rightful distance.
“As you well know, a narcissist's goal is to rent space in your head. Good or bad, you are always thinking about them and their impact on you. The day you "win" is the day you can view them and their antics with indifference.”
and
“You will only get abuse and no matter how many “techniques” you try, you will be affected by her disrespect, physically and mentally. You will see yourself as a victim—you can try setting firm boundaries, but a narcissistic Mom has no interest in how you feel. She never will. Only if she needs you (and that will be temporary), might she show appreciation.
I can tell you that continuing the relationship with my Narcissistic Mom was the biggest mistake of my life.
Only someone who has had this experience can even fathom what the abuse means.
I wish you the strength and self-love to put yourself first.”
“Narcissistic parents want utter control over and subservience from their children.
They also want to feed from their child’s soul/spirit. Each time they crush their child’s spirit, confidence, happiness, independence it gives them a rush.
But they don’t get this from the child that just lets themselves be controlled.
It’s about the challenge, it’s about manipulating and controlling their child to do something that they don’t want to do. All whilst claiming it’s the best thing, when it’s only the best thing for the narcissist.
A narcissistic parent will use a child as a substitute spouse, even if they have an adult relationship.
A narcissistic parent will use their child, so they don’t have to make friends. Other people outside of the family are not so easy to manipulate and control. And they have a terrible habit, of sometimes having their own mind which the narcissist doesn’t like. This is why it is rare for them to have long-term friendships. As soon as their friend disagrees with them, the friendship ends.
In their illness or old age, the narcissist will feel entitled to be looked after by their children. And this will be at the compromise of everything for that child. Nothing matters but the narcissist, so their child’s physical health, mental and emotional health won’t matter. Neither will their kids, job or relationships.
Narcissists have children to serve them for their entire life.
They know exactly the right strings to pull to manipulate them. They know their child’s weakness: their need for their parent’s love and approval.
Narcissists are like black holes, they need the attention and energy from other people but it’s never enough. So they will drain those around them, until there’s nothing but a shell of that person left.
Narcissists are energy vampires. The greatest challenge for the narcissistic parent is the empathic, caring child. There’s a lot to take from this child, they want their very spark, their soul. As they don’t have their own soul, they want to take other people’s.
“Overt narcissists and malignant narcissists are bold in their modus operandi, they abuse lots of individuals throughout their day. This makes them distracted, lazy and somewhat SATED when they finally arrive home. The covert narcissist, meanwhile had been busily pleasing people, helping them, donating money, helping out at church, educating children, saving lives, and the world, and secretly accumulating their day’s resentments and frustrations. But they won’t allow themselves to discharge their toxins outside. So when they finally arrive home, all that saved up toxin from being such a covertly negative person boils over into malice that gets reserved for the select few individuals in their lives they dare inflict upon - their scapegoat children. So their children get the distilled, concentrated, condensed dosage of their toxic discharge. And that’s why mysterious punishment suddenly takes place. They have been busting to go home the whole day, waiting to finally discharge.
“For the covert narcissist, emotional and mental harm is the very point of their abuse. Because they will not allow themselves to go about it overtly, nor will they allow themselves to exhibit excessive sadism. So everything is covert. ——They won’t allow you to see that you are being abused. —— How do you go about abusing someone in a non-overt nor not obviously sadistic way? Mostly through emotional torture. One more thing, the covert narcissist is in every way equally sadistic to the malignant narcissist, they are no less cruel, just unseen.
“Of all the different types of narcissist, the covert is most likely to break their victims, most likely to destroy their minds and healthy habits, and most likely to drive them INSANE. And this is done mostly through confusion, through covertness. Of all the different types of narcissist, the covert ones gaslight the most, and gaslighting tampers with your sense of reality, it is what mental and emotional torture is all about.
“Their LIES are like a black hole, sucking you into a dark place and then crushing you, while the real world receeds further and further away at the edge of the black hole.
“A narcissist won't let others feel good when s/he feels bad - s/he’ll make it everyone else’s problem. Conversely, if s/he feels good, s/he doesn’t particularly care if you feel bad.
“LASTLY, being raised by a narcissist is a mind f*** and you have a lot to figure out and reconfigure to heal.”
“The best thing you could do is say goodbye and turn your back and walk OUT the door forever.
“You might get some flack from people for doing it but really you’ve been abused by these people your entire life, you don’t owe them anything whatsoever.
“It was painful to realize that my mother doesn’t love me, has never loved me. But it was also so incredibly freeing.
“All is focused on the narcissist and preferably the kids will remain controlled by the narcissist throughout their adult lives.”
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I didn't realize how bad things were, because I thought all families were like ours. Now I'm learning how to recognize healthy people and set boundaries with toxic ones. It helps to be around people who have been through similar situations and can tell you that you are Not crazy and Not unreasonable. A lot of us are caregivers, too.
CoDA has meetings in person and online. If people hang around after the meeting, stick around. I get just as much benefit after the meeting as I do during the meeting. It's like a 2 for 1 bonus.
(1) Do I have that problem?
(2) What am I going to do about it?
Potential effects of abuse on the victim:
—low self-esteem
—depression
—anxiety
—physical symptoms
—stress eating
—time wasted
—lost opportunities because your energy and time are spent on healing
—you start believing the abuser’s lies
—you start losing yourself. You miss your former self. You miss YOU.
Some of us go on to lead successful lives. Others are destroyed. I guess it depends on - how bad - the abuse was. And there’s an element of luck. And determination, to overcome and heal from the abuse.
Many years ago, I made a promise to myself. I haven’t fulfilled the promise yet. Never had a chance to do it. I’ll do it now. And I’ll re-post when I’ve fulfilled it.
What does a childhood without abuse feel like? Can I overcome the past traumas or are they 'who I am?. I'm not doing a good job at explaining what she said to me. She has me create in my mind a 'healthy' version of myself. I don't naturally have one!
It's a slow and often painful process. Like healing from a deep physical wound. You heal, there may or may not be a deep scar, or there may be no signs. The challenge is to get to a place where the scars are not what defines you.
And NEVER giving up.
I have only just realized I do not have to take insults, meanness, disrespect or actual hatred from anyone. I can walk away. Sometimes that is what you have to do. Even with family, who should be our BFF's---but they can hurt us more than anyone else.
Today i’ll be trying out:
"What does a loved and cherished daughter feel like?”
“What does a childhood without abuse feel like?”
“create in my mind a 'healthy' version of myself. I don't naturally have one!”
LOVED AND CHERISHED. I like that. Perhaps that’s one key answer.
1. make decisions for yourself.
abusers have a great desire to CONTROL you. to decide for you. to "OWN" you. emotionally abusive people often force you to put their needs, desires, and demands above your own. maybe they've been doing that your whole life. time to break free. you might not realize you're a prisoner.
2. re-learn your preferences.
you may have lost touch with your own preferences for things. spend time reclaiming yourself. do things that you enjoy without worrying about pleasing anyone else. abusers WANT you to be unhappy, and want you to refrain from seeking happiness - you might even start fulfilling their wish, because you noticed when you're happy, they treat you worse.
3. protect your self-esteem.
you're a wonderful person. don't believe the abuser's lies, garbage, nonsense.
and take a hug with you, from me.
bundle of joy :)
She may not be physically abusive but she IS verbally abusive and calls me a "b***h" when I don't want to cater to her stupid asinine demands
I need to get out of here before she reaches the point of being physically abusive
I am creating an action plan for next year to cut all ties with her and finally become independant and autonomous!
I don’t know anyone who is still in contact with their narcissistic mother and/or father AND at the same time leading a happy life.
Maybe it’s impossible?
We see plenty of unhappy adult daughters being abused by their elderly LO, whom they’re caring for.
I haven’t seen a single person who’s able to maintain a happy life, while being in contact (whether that contact is once a month; every day; whatever), and helping their elderly LO.
It could be that the only way to be happy is to break off contact with any, and all, abusers, whether they are family or not family.
And if you choose not to break off all contact, then you know now, be prepared, because you’ll be unhappy for as long as they live.
Otherwise you are getting abused more and more and never have time to heal. Current abuse triggers the memories of old abuse - PTSD.
Thanks a lot for your reply! And thanks for “getting it”!
By the way, I do the same as you did: I now only see my mom when the caregiver is present. My mom still abuses me, but it’s less than when there are no witnesses.
Less than an hour…very good idea.
Unfortunately, I stay much longer than 1 hour. I still help with a few things.
In any case, suddenly, it occurred to me today, that I don’t know anyone who’s happy AND has an abusive person in their life. Maybe the two can’t co-exist.
Agreed - How can you be happy while being abused? So why stay in an abusive situation?
I know some psychologists say an adult who was abused as a child should never care give their abuser. I agree yet I did it and see others here doing it -and we all pay a big price with our mental and physical health. Other people can do the job of caregiving our abusive LO and, in retrospect, that certainly would have been better for me.
To elaborate, I never saw mother without having a person with me who was supportive of me. It reduced her opportunities to be verbally abusive. She still got a few shots in here and there but not many.
It would be good for you to reduce the amount of time you spent with your mother.
How do you heal?
Distance, distance, distance
Detach emotionally
Counselling
Build up your own life - include what YOU want in it, what is good for you, Remove what you don't want, what isn't good for you.
“How can you be happy while being abused?”
Right! Some people are able to develop tough skin. But even the toughest people feel pain, after getting abused again, again, again.
“So why stay in an abusive situation?”
The thing is, many of us abused daughters were forced into this situation of helping. Example: none of the siblings help, so you’re left holding the bag.
I’m an only child.
Yes I can totally abandon my mom, never see her again, but I won’t do that.
Reducing contact? Definitely. Like you Golden, I’m at minimum contact.
Why am I still in contact?
1. I’m POA. I help with some financial things. We’re not comfortable delegating that to someone else. Unfortunately for me, some financial decisions can only be made with my mom’s input. Hence, contact. Hence, opportunities for her to abuse me.
2. If there truly would be ZERO tasks for me to help out with (let me imagine for a second, all tasks are handled by others), would I still have contact? Yes. My mom only has me as family. I would reduce contact even more, but not down to zero.
“It reduced her opportunities to be verbally abusive.”
EXACTLY. Abusive moms see contact just as OPPORTUNITIES to abuse.
I also see that it’s totally pointless to reason with her - about anything.
Any sentence I say - she starts fighting. She wants to fight, insult, yell.
“How do you heal?
Distance, distance, distance
Detach emotionally”
Yes. I’m doing all of that.
But.
I haven’t cut contact. That’s a problem, because as I see today: it might be IMPOSSIBLE to be happy AND have an abusive person in one’s life.
I’ll figure out what to do. I do want to be happy.
“Build up your own life - include what YOU want in it, what is good for you, Remove what you don't want, what isn't good for you.”
Yes!
Actually, the rest of my life is perfect. I love my job. I love my house (I don’t live with my mom). I have wonderful friends.
But.
I have an abusive mom.
I think its the personality of the child. Some realize its abuse and get away as soon as they are old enough. And others, are easier to manipulate because they feel if they do what I am told, maybe they will love me. They end up doing the caring because they think "if I do this, maybe it will be appreciated and I will be loved for it"
I have a SIL who I have never fully understood and we went thru 10 yrs of not talking because of the way she treated me during a visit. On a trip South, a couple of weeks ago, we stopped at siblings' houses and stayed a couple of nights at ea. Had a pretty good visit with SIL. Of course, you wait for that shoe to drop. If she was not my SIL, she would not be someone I would want as a friend. My MIL was a person I did not get close to, too unpredictable.
I am so sorry you were abused. From what I have read Narcissists can be very abusive and manipulative. I think they are born this way and will never change because they won't or can't recognize their flaws. The only thing you can do, IMO, to help yourself is go no contact and work on yourself. Know your a good person. Get some self-esteem. Recognize your weaknesses and your strengths, we all have them. Then learn boundries. Learn to stand up for yourself. It comes down to I do not deserve this and I do not need to put up with it. Your an adult and deserve respect.
Your elderly LO needs your more than you need them. Remember this. This they need to know. They find out by you walking away. When they get abusive, you stop what your doing. Tell them when they can be nicer to you, you will come back but you no longer will take any abuse they dish out. If it continues, you will never come back. The State can take over their care. You will have no control over where u are put. You tell LO what ur willing to do and not do. You also tell them that as their child, you are not obligated to do anything. What you do is because you want to, not because they demand it of you. A thank you goes a long way. My Mom always said thank you.
There's a few longtime posters here that have laid it down from the beginning what they will do and won't do for a LO. And they don't waver. Its how they get thru caregiving knowing they have some control.
There r a lot of people in your shoes on this forum so you will have lots of support.
"Some of us go on to lead successful lives. Others are destroyed."
Yes for sure. But I don’t mean AFTER the abuse. For sure there are people who were abused in the past, and who later have happy lives.
I mean DURING the abuse. I don’t know anyone who’s CURRENTLY being abused, and who’s leading a happy life at the same time. I know plenty of abused people, on the contrary, who’re crying, unhappy, then recover some days later, then unhappy again: it’s the cycle of being abused.
“I am so sorry you were abused.”
Thanks for your words, really. And I’m sorry also, to hear SIL and MIL aren’t nice people.
“The only thing you can do, IMO, to help yourself is go no contact.”
In fact, I see that being in contact AND being happy, might not be possible.
"if I do this, maybe it will be appreciated and I will be loved for it"
Some abused people maybe are looking for parental love. That’s not why I help. I help because it’s the morally right thing to do. I helped set up caregivers for my mom. I helped solve financial issues for her (I’m a financial expert). Etc.
“You need to work on yourself. Know you’re a good person. Get some self-esteem.”
“It comes down to I do not deserve this and I do not need to put up with it. You’re an adult and deserve respect.”
Thanks! Yes!
When you are dealing with a narcissist, it is normal to question your sanity and worthiness, you are not necessarily a codependent. Sometimes all you really need are tools to use. CoDA can still be useful.
first, understand how abusers operate. abusers want to CONTROL you for the rest of your life.
It was a dispute between an abusive mother, and the daughter standing up for herself.
It was very clear, watching the movie, what’s going on. The mother wanted to start a fight. She wanted to pick on her daughter. She wanted to make it look like it’s a dispute. But it’s not a dispute. The daughter is just defending herself.
What I mean to say with this is that sometimes by being an outsider, you see much more clearly what the abuser is doing (their strategy).
If you’re being abused, you already know what your abuser is doing is wrong. But seeing it from the outside, makes it even clearer.
After that movie, I see even more clearly what my mom is doing.
She wants to fight.
Don’t fight. Walk away. (Unless the comment is so outrageous that you must stand up for yourself. But be aware, the abuser will just keep fighting (or ignore you), trying to make you feel worse and worse; and taking your time, energy, emotions, trying to rob your day, trying to ruin your day).
(continued)
---second, abusers want to destroy you (not just control you). really. but doing it totally openly is illegal, so they do it by other means. slowly. verbally. emotionally. psychologically. they want to mess with your mind. make you UNHAPPY.
it's INTENTIONAL. they know very well what they're doing. it's directed at YOU. not at another person. they know what they're doing. and they'll behave better towards you if there are non-family witnesses: they ARE totally able to control their behavior.
---third, as i learned recently from another thread, abusers kill you a little every day. they try to kill your soul, your self-confidence, your happiness, etc.
you might not recognize yourself after a while. you might really miss the old you.
one must take being abused seriously. it has a lot of negative consequences on one's body/mind/spirit, that one doesn't realize.
---fourth, it's not possible to heal, while you CONTINUE to be exposed to the abuser. you're accumulating more abuse, while you try to heal old wounds. it's never-ending, and they'll never stop.
---fifth, abusers literally feed off making you miserable. they want to keep feeding themselves, and will do it to you again and again.
they feed off your emotions.
those hours/days you need to recover? those are exactly the hours/days they are having fun feeding off your misery. they don't need to see you to know you're miserable - they know you are. they wanted you that way.
---sixth, some mothers are the greatest enemy of their daughter.
make no mistake about it.
---seventh, you're in a prison, as long as you're in contact with the abuser. you are in some way, en-slaved. if it's an abusive parent, you have been all your life, unless you break free.
---eighth, abusers want to kill you a little, every day. and they do. they waste your time, emotions. how many years have you spent trying to heal from something the abuser did or said to you? do you miss you? the way you were?
---ninth, it's LITERALLY like this:
take it seriously:
every time you're unhappy, the abuser is happy
0 for you, 1 for the abuser
(for the abuser, it's like a game. winning/losing) (counting points)
every time you're happy, the abuser is unhappy (might pretend to be a bit happy; might even genuinely sometimessssss be happy for you)
that's 1 for you, 0 for the abuser.
----------
i wish everyone to be free from abuse. find a way.
lead the best possible life you can!! :) :) :) :)
🌸🌸🌸🍀🍀🍀🌸🌸🌸
(continued)
if you’re caring for an abusive elderly person, you’re in double-trouble, triple-quadruple-trouble.
caregiving is hard enough, without an abusive “senior brat”.
---here’s my 10th point on how to heal. i think these warnings from someone on the internet are important:
“As narcs are cowards, especially when you expose them with facts, they try to destroy you by any means.
Smearing you to the family, to anyone.
They even tried to use my dad against me.
Respect your boundaries, no one can harm you without your consent. If you always give second chances and try to use logic with them, you are wasting your time and life for nothing.
Empower yourself with knowledge and work on your personal issues, there you will improve and get results fast. Narcs will be terrified even if they cross your way.
It is up to you to be afraid or strong and confident.
For me, it is a life changing experience, cutting off all toxic people from my life, made me realize that I was the one who is wasting his life for nothing.
I feel confident, at peace and prepared for anything.
It does not mean that all my problems are solved, but I have a different and mature perspective.
All pieces of the puzzle took their place, there was a logic in all the pain that I suffered for 46 years, and hoping that toxic people will change with our love and attention.
Focus your love and attention to yourself, you need it the most.”
————
i wish us all well!
bundle of joy :)
🌸🌸🌸🍀🍀🍀🌸🌸🌸
(continued)
my last point.
---11th point.
for those who have an abusive elderly mother.
i think these words from someone on the internet are useful:
“A narcissist mother is the worst type of human being. It is a human being that I fail to understand in any way.
Instead of nurturing, she abuses her children and leaves them to deal with the damage for the rest of their lives.
Please do not allow such an abuser to hurt you. You have already experienced a very difficult childhood. So you are already fully aware what she will always say - criticism, criticism and criticism!
This narcissist is probably smearing her daughters because they can see through her and refuse to give her any supply.
Just stay away from this abuser. She never cared and she will never care. Please face the truth.”
———
hug!
bundle of joy :)
🌸🌸🌸🍀🍀🍀🌸🌸🌸
It is so much more than someone needing to be the center of attention. It is someone trying to destroy another human being.
They enjoy and get pleasure from deliberately hurting you.
They enjoy knowing that they have that power over you. They have an evilness in them that normal, loving human beings don't possess.
I have to add though...if it were that simple, many of us would already have done so. There are circumstances where cutting narcs totally out of your life, isn't possible right now. But you can work towards to it.
Just an example:
Your boss is a narc, and you need that job. You might be able to leave soon, but not right away. It'll take a while to set up a new job.
Just an example:
Your family member is a narc, but for various reasons, it's not possible to avoid them completely. Cutting them out, might mean needing to cut out 20 other family members, because they will be flying monkeys.
I'm working towards cutting contact.
No one on this thread has mentioned the weapon we all have to fight the abusive narcissist with.
IGNORING! PAY THEM NO ATTENTION WHATSOEVER! ZERO!
Attention is life to the narcissist. It's what sustains them. They don't care what kind of attention it is either. Positive adoration or even miserable negativity and fighting. So long as they remain in power and are at the forefront of attention. Even when it's fighting.
Withold the attention and the narcissistic abuser starts to weaken. At first, they will try doubling down on the abuse of their preferred targets and may even seek out new targets to destroy, but they start to feel their power waning the longer they are ignored, and the longer attention is withheld.
Starving a narcissistic abuser of attention is our weapon. When they see the only reaction their behaviors get is indifference, that strikes a real blow to them.
So even if you can't quit a job right away because of a narcissistic abusive boss, or are temporarily stuck in the narcissistic abuser's house - You can still use the weapon of witholding attention and ignoring them. It works.
You can make it really effective if the abuser is dependent on you to meet their care needs.
No one has to tolerate or live with abuse. A person doesn't always have to move out.
I'd suggest that once able to separate yourself from the situation, or even well before, you seek out the tools toward healing that a good psychologist can provide. I've found the help to be invaluable and apply these to many aspects of my life.
And know that once you've danced the dance of the NPD, you'll always, in future, spot them from a mile away and know to keep your rightful distance.
Here from the internet, something useful too:
“As you well know, a narcissist's goal is to rent space in your head. Good or bad, you are always thinking about them and their impact on you. The day you "win" is the day you can view them and their antics with indifference.”
and
“You will only get abuse and no matter how many “techniques” you try, you will be affected by her disrespect, physically and mentally. You will see yourself as a victim—you can try setting firm boundaries, but a narcissistic Mom has no interest in how you feel. She never will. Only if she needs you (and that will be temporary), might she show appreciation.
I can tell you that continuing the relationship with my Narcissistic Mom was the biggest mistake of my life.
Only someone who has had this experience can even fathom what the abuse means.
I wish you the strength and self-love to put yourself first.”
"As you well know, a narcissist's goal is to rent space in your head".
Please. As if a narcissistic mother can't even pay their child a kind word. Let alone rent LOL.
from the internet about narcs:
“Narcissistic parents want utter control over and subservience from their children.
They also want to feed from their child’s soul/spirit. Each time they crush their child’s spirit, confidence, happiness, independence it gives them a rush.
But they don’t get this from the child that just lets themselves be controlled.
It’s about the challenge, it’s about manipulating and controlling their child to do something that they don’t want to do. All whilst claiming it’s the best thing, when it’s only the best thing for the narcissist.
A narcissistic parent will use a child as a substitute spouse, even if they have an adult relationship.
A narcissistic parent will use their child, so they don’t have to make friends. Other people outside of the family are not so easy to manipulate and control. And they have a terrible habit, of sometimes having their own mind which the narcissist doesn’t like. This is why it is rare for them to have long-term friendships. As soon as their friend disagrees with them, the friendship ends.
In their illness or old age, the narcissist will feel entitled to be looked after by their children. And this will be at the compromise of everything for that child. Nothing matters but the narcissist, so their child’s physical health, mental and emotional health won’t matter. Neither will their kids, job or relationships.
Narcissists have children to serve them for their entire life.
They know exactly the right strings to pull to manipulate them. They know their child’s weakness: their need for their parent’s love and approval.
Narcissists are like black holes, they need the attention and energy from other people but it’s never enough. So they will drain those around them, until there’s nothing but a shell of that person left.
Narcissists are energy vampires. The greatest challenge for the narcissistic parent is the empathic, caring child. There’s a lot to take from this child, they want their very spark, their soul. As they don’t have their own soul, they want to take other people’s.
I hope that this helps you.”
I am working on moving out in the next year
overt versus covert narcs:
“Overt narcissists and malignant narcissists are bold in their modus operandi, they abuse lots of individuals throughout their day. This makes them distracted, lazy and somewhat SATED when they finally arrive home. The covert narcissist, meanwhile had been busily pleasing people, helping them, donating money, helping out at church, educating children, saving lives, and the world, and secretly accumulating their day’s resentments and frustrations. But they won’t allow themselves to discharge their toxins outside. So when they finally arrive home, all that saved up toxin from being such a covertly negative person boils over into malice that gets reserved for the select few individuals in their lives they dare inflict upon - their scapegoat children. So their children get the distilled, concentrated, condensed dosage of their toxic discharge. And that’s why mysterious punishment suddenly takes place. They have been busting to go home the whole day, waiting to finally discharge.
“For the covert narcissist, emotional and mental harm is the very point of their abuse. Because they will not allow themselves to go about it overtly, nor will they allow themselves to exhibit excessive sadism. So everything is covert. ——They won’t allow you to see that you are being abused. —— How do you go about abusing someone in a non-overt nor not obviously sadistic way? Mostly through emotional torture. One more thing, the covert narcissist is in every way equally sadistic to the malignant narcissist, they are no less cruel, just unseen.
“Of all the different types of narcissist, the covert is most likely to break their victims, most likely to destroy their minds and healthy habits, and most likely to drive them INSANE. And this is done mostly through confusion, through covertness. Of all the different types of narcissist, the covert ones gaslight the most, and gaslighting tampers with your sense of reality, it is what mental and emotional torture is all about.
“Their LIES are like a black hole, sucking you into a dark place and then crushing you, while the real world receeds further and further away at the edge of the black hole.
“A narcissist won't let others feel good when s/he feels bad - s/he’ll make it everyone else’s problem. Conversely, if s/he feels good, s/he doesn’t particularly care if you feel bad.
“LASTLY, being raised by a narcissist is a mind f*** and you have a lot to figure out and reconfigure to heal.”
“The best thing you could do is say goodbye and turn your back and walk OUT the door forever.
“You might get some flack from people for doing it but really you’ve been abused by these people your entire life, you don’t owe them anything whatsoever.
“It was painful to realize that my mother doesn’t love me, has never loved me. But it was also so incredibly freeing.
“All is focused on the narcissist and preferably the kids will remain controlled by the narcissist throughout their adult lives.”