Are you sure you want to exit? Your progress will be lost.
Who are you caring for?
Which best describes their mobility?
How well are they maintaining their hygiene?
How are they managing their medications?
Does their living environment pose any safety concerns?
Fall risks, spoiled food, or other threats to wellbeing
Are they experiencing any memory loss?
Which best describes your loved one's social life?
Acknowledgment of Disclosures and Authorization
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
✔
I acknowledge and authorize
✔
I consent to the collection of my consumer health data.*
✔
I consent to the sharing of my consumer health data with qualified home care agencies.*
*If I am consenting on behalf of someone else, I have the proper authorization to do so. By clicking Get My Results, you agree to our Privacy Policy. You also consent to receive calls and texts, which may be autodialed, from us and our customer communities. Your consent is not a condition to using our service. Please visit our Terms of Use. for information about our privacy practices.
Mostly Independent
Your loved one may not require home care or assisted living services at this time. However, continue to monitor their condition for changes and consider occasional in-home care services for help as needed.
Remember, this assessment is not a substitute for professional advice.
Share a few details and we will match you to trusted home care in your area:
Well, maybe it is wrong to 'shelter assets' as you say. This behavior wouldn't be necessary if LTC facilities (memory care, nursing homes, assisted living,etc...) had a leash put on their obscene greed and insatiable lust for the Almighty Dollar.
People clutch their pearls in shock and get very judgmental when some average Joe that worked and saved his entire life figures out how to keep a little taste for himself and leave something behind for his family.
Yet, it's perfectly fine and legal for the "care" industry to fleece an entire family and go through every cent in no time at all. It's acceptable for a nursing home, memory care, hospital, or any other LTC facility to collect obscene amounts of money from insurance and still charge a person full price in cash. That's stealing and fraud. For the most part the patient/resident is offered shamefully little for what's being collected for them.
It's perfectly fine for profit-making LTC facilities to cut every corner they can to save money including cutting essential staff and risking patient care and safety. They still charge the obscene bill for every resident every month and get it, but your "loved one" can sit in their own crap because there's not enough aides to keep up. Or they get assaulted in memory care because there isn't any security. Or their food is such poor quality it isn't fit for a dog. I know this because I brought one of the nursing home meals back for the dog rather than waste it. The dog wouldn't touch it, yet the patient/residents are expected to eat that. Most of those people don't have family bringing in outside meals like my father did.
Many people in addition to upwards of 8, 9, and 10 grand a month or more have to hire private caregivers for their LO in LTC and pay them out-of-pocket. Otherwise grandma doesn't eat because there isn't staff who can spend two hours feeding her a meal. She stays in a mess because there's not staff available to wash her up immediately eventhough they're collecting a fortune.
With me, if some little guys figures out how to keep a taste for himself and his family, good for him.
If your house is your only asset or as it is for many it is your biggest asset then you will probably need it yourself with increasing cost of care. First if you need AL it could be costly. Average stay in AL is 5 years, $4000-8000 per month right now and no doubt cost will increase exponentially. If you have long progressive disease and wish to stay in your home for several years you will need some extra help which is very costly. Caregivers charge about $25-30 per hour. Or at 66 you could live for another 30 years and unless you have other assets or are very wealthy selling your property could be another option. I know my husband having Parkinson which could last 20+ years money we will need for his care could be more than what we have. As the very last resource and only if absolutely necessary there is reverse mortgage option as well which with prices here would give us several years of paying for care. I would never give it to children while alive. My husband and I are both against it, in fact his son is trying to get “loan” from us. He is divorcing millionaire and cannot afford lawyer. For starters about $50,000 for fees. He had extremely well paid job, they lived lavish lifestyle. Well, no job, no place to live, they have property worth close to 2mil. She has several lawyers and won’t sell, claims she paid it all. Good thing I am in charge of most our assets which are at this time saved for care of my husband so I don’t kill myself doing all of it.
Usually on Forum when people make these "saving home for the kids" posts they are speaking of preventing Medicaid from doing recovery or "claw back" of funds expended for their care. To my mind that's wrong. Whether this gal choose to sell her home for great care for some years in ALF, or to keep home and go on Medicaid when she needs to, I think it is wrong to shelter assets in that manner. The home is often placed in a Trust that cannot be accessed by you. You have essentially given away your one asset, your home, while you are still living and could be in need of/getting care in home caregivers or nice Extended Care facility. All so that your kids don't have to do what YOU did, work hard, save hard and buy real estate over their lifetime. Many here say that's no longer possible. But it IS. You start small and you spend a life clipping coupons. You don't have every streaming service ever created by man, and just as many cars in the family. It can be done and Dave Ramsey can help folks figure out how. And if it isn't EASY? That's life. It ISN'T easy. But saving can become just as powerful, just as much fun as spending. Really. It can. It becomes a sort of game.
I frankly never understand why elders want to preserve their homes and assets for their kids instead of keeping them safely in their own control for their own care while they live. THEN the kids get what's left. In my experience it takes a lifetime to save enough to have control. Keeping the home in YOUR control, and not renamed to a deed for your son, means you could sell it and live in ALF if you needed to on the assets that home accumulated.
That said, if you wish to do this do see an Elder Law Attorney. He will give you the options. Take someone REALLY SAVVY with you who will understand what this attorney says, because irrevocable trusts and such, that remove your assets from YOUR CONTROL and place them in a Trust? Well, as RealyReal already told you, that means that the TRUST OWNS YOUR HOME, not you, and you cannot change that in an irrevocable trust.
Carla It depends …. On what state you live in as rules are different for Medicaid in different states.
In some states the contribution your son has made to your care makes a difference. In some states if a child has kept the parent from needing a NH by caring for them for two years prior to Medicaid picking up the tab (and the child did not have an outside job during that time) Medicaid delays collecting on any lien placed on the home until after that child’s death.
Does your son even want your home? Can your son afford the maintenance, taxes, insurance natural disasters that come in time? Or would this be a heavy burden for him?
Is your son in excellent health and promised to outlive you? Dependent upon you now and you are worried about what will become of him?
There are many nuances to long range financial planning.
Currently the rules in most states require that no “gifting” be made for at least 5 years before the need for Medicaid. And very careful records must be kept.
You ask, What is the answer? It is a good question but unique to the individual. Take good care of yourself. Set a good example to your son that life isn’t free and we all need to do our part to care for ourselves. If he is well, and I hope he is, then he has many years ahead to plan for his future.
Good luck on your research. questions get better answers when more details are provided.
I think it's wonderful that you want to leave something to your family and are planning ahead. If only every aging parent or family member was so considerate. Here are some options to explore. Of course, you should go to a lawyer who specializes in elder law and estate planning.
You can put your house into an 'Irrevocable Trust' and name your son as the Trustee. You will still own your home and have lifetime use of it, but if you go into a care facility it's a protected asset. It will not have to be probated either when you pass away and this saves a fortune and a lot of headaches too. It will pass directly to your son and he can't be forced to sell to pay off any bills or expenses you may have.
He can live there himself or rent it out if he wants and no one will be able to collect a cent. He can't sell it though. If he sells, then any bills you may owe including care bills will get paid from the proceeds of the property.
Or you can transfer the deed to your son now and if have a stipulation made that you will have lifetime use of the home.
I am going to contradict your statement that "you will still own the house." That is incorrect, the trust will own the house, if it doesn't, it isn't protected. Also, she should be the 1st Trustee with the son as a secondary that steps in under whatever conditions are best in their state.
If you needed Medicaid it would put a lien on your house that the next owner would need to satisfy when it transfers after you death (this is called MERP: Medicaid Estate Recovery Program). Medicaid rules can differ by state, but this is basically what would happen. Medicaid/the US govt does not want a physical house, they want the money they "lent" you for your care.
Even if your son inherited your home, even without a lien, does he make enough income to be able to afford owning it? Paying the taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance and repairs? My SFIL and MIL's quad home went into foreclosure because they were 3 years behind in paying their property taxes (even though they were paying their mortgage).
I agree that you should consult with an estate planning attorney or elder law attorney who are familiar with Medicaid.
No. Not if the house is made a Medicaid-exempt asset longer than the five-year lookback period.
Of course, property taxes and insurance on the house still have to be paid up. If you don't pay the property taxes it's the city or township that forcloses on a property, not Medicaid.
Irrevocable Trusts or getting assets out of an older person's name makes them Medicaid-exempt. This also applies if a need for homecare arises. The property owner may be low enough income to receive Medicaid (not for LTC that's something different) in addition to their Medicare and still own their home.
If they qualify for the paid family caregiver program a family member can get paid to take care of them and if they don't have assets in their name or have put assets into Trust for their family, no money gets recapped after they die.
I am going to ask what you mean by "nursing home" Are you talking about Skilled Nursing Facility where you have a chronic medical condition that requires Skilled Nursing or are you using the term "nursing home" to lump in Assisted Living, Memory Care?
I am guessing that you want to "protect" your house and possibly any assets you have from being used for your care. There are Trusts you can set up. For those you would need to see an Elder Care Attorney or one that deals with Trusts and Estate Planning. Many of the Trusts that might "protect" your assets require you to place assets in a Trust that is not NOT controlled by you. An "Irrevocable trust". With this you will give up control over your financial affairs.
Now I have to ask you a question. IF you have the funds for a facility that you find that you like and you have the funds to pay for it why would you select to go to a lesser place that would keep you as a resident once Medicaid has to kick in? I would think that you would want your funds to pay for your care rather than having the taxpayers foot the bill for your long term stay?
You will have to put your house in a trust that an elder law attorney can help you with to "keep from losing it." But in all honesty, if needed your house should be sold and the proceeds go to any future care you may need before you have to go on Medicaid. Your assets should go to you and your care, before they go to anyone else, and before you ask the government to pay for your care. That is only fair and right.
I beg to differ. I don't think it's 'only right' that nursing homes, memory care, and AL can get away with fleecing every cent a person ever had over a lifetime of work.
Even in the most expensive facilities cut corners left and right. These places are for-profit businesses. Families can hire a part-time private aide to provide extra care in a facility and they don't have to lose everything.
Each generation is supposed to be a little better off than the one before it. This was so because of inheritance. People owned an asset and left it for their kids. So maybe they bought a home or sent their kids to college because of it. A little better off than the generation before.
Now it's the care industry burns it all within a year or two and the person ends up on Medicaid anyway. Most care facilities will kick a person out if they outlive their assets. Then they go to a crappy Medicaid facility anyway.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Well, maybe it is wrong to 'shelter assets' as you say. This behavior wouldn't be necessary if LTC facilities (memory care, nursing homes, assisted living,etc...) had a leash put on their obscene greed and insatiable lust for the Almighty Dollar.
People clutch their pearls in shock and get very judgmental when some average Joe that worked and saved his entire life figures out how to keep a little taste for himself and leave something behind for his family.
Yet, it's perfectly fine and legal for the "care" industry to fleece an entire family and go through every cent in no time at all. It's acceptable for a nursing home, memory care, hospital, or any other LTC facility to collect obscene amounts of money from insurance and still charge a person full price in cash. That's stealing and fraud. For the most part the patient/resident is offered shamefully little for what's being collected for them.
It's perfectly fine for profit-making LTC facilities to cut every corner they can to save money including cutting essential staff and risking patient care and safety. They still charge the obscene bill for every resident every month and get it, but your "loved one" can sit in their own crap because there's not enough aides to keep up. Or they get assaulted in memory care because there isn't any security. Or their food is such poor quality it isn't fit for a dog. I know this because I brought one of the nursing home meals back for the dog rather than waste it. The dog wouldn't touch it, yet the patient/residents are expected to eat that. Most of those people don't have family bringing in outside meals like my father did.
Many people in addition to upwards of 8, 9, and 10 grand a month or more have to hire private caregivers for their LO in LTC and pay them out-of-pocket. Otherwise grandma doesn't eat because there isn't staff who can spend two hours feeding her a meal. She stays in a mess because there's not staff available to wash her up immediately eventhough they're collecting a fortune.
With me, if some little guys figures out how to keep a taste for himself and his family, good for him.
First if you need AL it could be costly. Average stay in AL is 5 years, $4000-8000 per month right now and no doubt cost will increase exponentially.
If you have long progressive disease and wish to stay in your home for several years you will need some extra help which is very costly. Caregivers charge about $25-30 per hour.
Or at 66 you could live for another 30 years and unless you have other assets or are very wealthy selling your property could be another option.
I know my husband having Parkinson which could last 20+ years money we will need for his care could be more than what we have.
As the very last resource and only if absolutely necessary there is reverse mortgage option as well which with prices here would give us several years of paying for care.
I would never give it to children while alive.
My husband and I are both against it, in fact his son is trying to get “loan” from us. He is divorcing millionaire and cannot afford lawyer. For starters about $50,000 for fees.
He had extremely well paid job, they lived lavish lifestyle.
Well, no job, no place to live, they have property worth close to 2mil. She has several lawyers and won’t sell, claims she paid it all.
Good thing I am in charge of most our assets which are at this time saved for care of my husband so I don’t kill myself doing all of it.
The home is often placed in a Trust that cannot be accessed by you. You have essentially given away your one asset, your home, while you are still living and could be in need of/getting care in home caregivers or nice Extended Care facility. All so that your kids don't have to do what YOU did, work hard, save hard and buy real estate over their lifetime. Many here say that's no longer possible. But it IS. You start small and you spend a life clipping coupons. You don't have every streaming service ever created by man, and just as many cars in the family. It can be done and Dave Ramsey can help folks figure out how. And if it isn't EASY? That's life. It ISN'T easy. But saving can become just as powerful, just as much fun as spending. Really. It can. It becomes a sort of game.
That said, if you wish to do this do see an Elder Law Attorney. He will give you the options. Take someone REALLY SAVVY with you who will understand what this attorney says, because irrevocable trusts and such, that remove your assets from YOUR CONTROL and place them in a Trust? Well, as RealyReal already told you, that means that the TRUST OWNS YOUR HOME, not you, and you cannot change that in an irrevocable trust.
Good luck to you.
It depends ….
On what state you live in as rules are different for Medicaid in different states.
In some states the contribution your son has made to your care makes a difference.
In some states if a child has kept the parent from needing a NH by caring for them for two years prior to Medicaid picking up the tab (and the child did not have an outside job during that time) Medicaid delays collecting on any lien placed on the home until after that child’s death.
Does your son even want your home? Can your son afford the maintenance, taxes, insurance natural disasters that come in time? Or would this be a heavy burden for him?
Is your son in excellent health and promised to outlive you?
Dependent upon you now and you are worried about what will become of him?
There are many nuances to long range financial planning.
Currently the rules in most states require that no “gifting” be made for at least 5 years before the need for Medicaid. And very careful records must be kept.
You ask, What is the answer? It is a good question but unique to the individual. Take good care of yourself. Set a good example to your son that life isn’t free and we all need to do our part to care for ourselves. If he is well, and I hope he is, then he has many years ahead to plan for his future.
Good luck on your research. questions get better answers when more details are provided.
You can put your house into an 'Irrevocable Trust' and name your son as the Trustee. You will still own your home and have lifetime use of it, but if you go into a care facility it's a protected asset. It will not have to be probated either when you pass away and this saves a fortune and a lot of headaches too. It will pass directly to your son and he can't be forced to sell to pay off any bills or expenses you may have.
He can live there himself or rent it out if he wants and no one will be able to collect a cent. He can't sell it though. If he sells, then any bills you may owe including care bills will get paid from the proceeds of the property.
Or you can transfer the deed to your son now and if have a stipulation made that you will have lifetime use of the home.
Even if your son inherited your home, even without a lien, does he make enough income to be able to afford owning it? Paying the taxes, insurance, utilities, maintenance and repairs? My SFIL and MIL's quad home went into foreclosure because they were 3 years behind in paying their property taxes (even though they were paying their mortgage).
I agree that you should consult with an estate planning attorney or elder law attorney who are familiar with Medicaid.
No. Not if the house is made a Medicaid-exempt asset longer than the five-year lookback period.
Of course, property taxes and insurance on the house still have to be paid up. If you don't pay the property taxes it's the city or township that forcloses on a property, not Medicaid.
Irrevocable Trusts or getting assets out of an older person's name makes them Medicaid-exempt. This also applies if a need for homecare arises. The property owner may be low enough income to receive Medicaid (not for LTC that's something different) in addition to their Medicare and still own their home.
If they qualify for the paid family caregiver program a family member can get paid to take care of them and if they don't have assets in their name or have put assets into Trust for their family, no money gets recapped after they die.
Are you talking about Skilled Nursing Facility where you have a chronic medical condition that requires Skilled Nursing or are you using the term "nursing home" to lump in Assisted Living, Memory Care?
I am guessing that you want to "protect" your house and possibly any assets you have from being used for your care.
There are Trusts you can set up. For those you would need to see an Elder Care Attorney or one that deals with Trusts and Estate Planning.
Many of the Trusts that might "protect" your assets require you to place assets in a Trust that is not NOT controlled by you. An "Irrevocable trust". With this you will give up control over your financial affairs.
Now I have to ask you a question.
IF you have the funds for a facility that you find that you like and you have the funds to pay for it why would you select to go to a lesser place that would keep you as a resident once Medicaid has to kick in? I would think that you would want your funds to pay for your care rather than having the taxpayers foot the bill for your long term stay?
But in all honesty, if needed your house should be sold and the proceeds go to any future care you may need before you have to go on Medicaid.
Your assets should go to you and your care, before they go to anyone else, and before you ask the government to pay for your care.
That is only fair and right.
I beg to differ. I don't think it's 'only right' that nursing homes, memory care, and AL can get away with fleecing every cent a person ever had over a lifetime of work.
Even in the most expensive facilities cut corners left and right. These places are for-profit businesses. Families can hire a part-time private aide to provide extra care in a facility and they don't have to lose everything.
Each generation is supposed to be a little better off than the one before it. This was so because of inheritance. People owned an asset and left it for their kids. So maybe they bought a home or sent their kids to college because of it. A little better off than the generation before.
Now it's the care industry burns it all within a year or two and the person ends up on Medicaid anyway. Most care facilities will kick a person out if they outlive their assets. Then they go to a crappy Medicaid facility anyway.
Could you please explain, why you think that your son could be doing this?
No one can make someone, ruin them financially unless you are letting them do it
Please explain better, so we can help you.