I need advice. What my are rights? Should I contact an attorney?

Dear CS, you have received some very good advice. I would like to add my brief experience with APS.

The first time was so bizarre, I wasn't home and never could get a straight answer from either my husband who has Alzheimer's or them on what took place.

They would not tell me what the second visit was about until I let them into the house. Someone, reported me for isolating my husband, We were in the middle of COVID and were supposed to isolate so go figure. They were told that his family was not able to contact him and our guns were accessible to him. They wanted to talk to him separately so I left the room. I could hear murmuring, but when he called me to come back, I pretended I did not hear and I made him walk to me.

In my case, they wanted to see the kitchen and food. I also showed them the gun safes and explained he did not have the combinations, which he does not. I also gave them one of his niece's phone number and suggested they call her because we had taken dinner over to her house the week before and ate it on her porch. I also gave them the phone number of one of his friends who I made sure talked to him on a regular basis.

She complemented me on my cooperation and of course, I never heard anything from them and I cannot get any answers on either time they came by. I understand in my county that is the norm for the organization. In fact the County Board of Supervisor's is going to court to force them to turn over some records on a high profile case they were involved in.

We are old, so I did call an Elder Law Advocate (attorney) that I had talked to before. The first consultation was free. In my case, he said if they ever came back and wanted in the house, to have them call him first.

CSimmers: Yes, you SHOULD contact an elder law attorney.

Mommy needs to go, period. Time to request a social worker and make her a ward of the state; an Elder Law Attorney will educate you and help you forge your own path.

I would contact an elder care attorney and then go from there. You might also contact your local dept. of aging foe possible assistance. I would also encourage you to find a good counselor- for yourself. In the meantime, get together any financial documents concerning whatever you may have paid for with your or your mom's expenses. Possible find any tax returns filed by her. It may be good to have your mom's POA , both financial and/or health care, but that is a decision based on discussions with your attorney. The most important thing is to take care of yourself and your family -everything else comes second.

I share some similar past issues, not as bad as yours luckily for me, so I truly empathize. And do make sure you are removed as a POA, suggest also being removed as an emergency contact, and as you said your "mother" called you from a cell. If you are controlling / paying for that service, I would terminate it. And block all phone calls from her and the nursing home. Ensure that you are truly "no contact". And when you can breathe again, live life freely. Hopefully, you'll be able to put this in the past and have a fresh start at life. Maybe even move someplace new if that is something you've thought about.

I do wish you very good luck and as someone else said, please let us all know how it turns out.

From lots and lots of experience with narcissists, the "hurt" is intentionally inflicted (she doesn't care about how you feel, only the lift it gives her to inflict it), and by taking on/accepting responsibility for your Mom's care, you are in the perfect position to inflict more hurt. You will have to keep it professional, although you are shattered, there is nothing you could have done better. If you get any resistance from adult protective services, contact an attorney. The worst and best part is to cut off contact with your mother forever. It won't get better. She will be nice to lure you back in and if you go back she will hurt you again. Never have anything to do with her ever again. You no longer need to be in a position for your Mom to hurt at least not directly. Work to regain your sanity and strength and let the doctors and facility staff deal with her.

Much of your question was answered by others, but I have experience with the lawsuit you are considering against your mother. Go to a lawyer with a free consultation appointment. Take the proof of the loss of income you have suffered due to your mother causing your disability, as well as all bills and expenses from therapy, which must be for the disability you are claiming. You will need more than one medical expert to testify that your diagnosis is directly due to her abuse, and cannot possibly be from toxins, epigenetics, or results of your own decisions (like choosing to drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes, eat poorly) and you will need to rule out your father's influence, DNA, etc., as possible causes and correlations. Keep in mind your mother's behaviors are a result of her trauma, familial influence, epigenetics, environment and standards of child rearing at the time. This can be explained better by a lawyer familiar with the matter, but it's expensive, time-consuming, requires experts from many fields and you will have to prove "intent to harm". Good luck.

Been there, done that. Adult Services will investigate, but most likely will find nothing because it sounds like nothing happened. The fact she had a UTI will also play into it, since thinking is affected by that.

My mom claimed I overdosed her, when she did herself. If you get an attorney, I hate to say it, but it makes you look guilty. Only if they find something against you should you get an attorney.

As others have said, don't let her back in your home. Set boundaries and tell her she will have to stay in another place, AL or SNF. You can't keep doing that. Also you could ask the state to appoint a guardian for her to oversee her money/expenses.

So be compassionate, but not a doormat. If you have other siblings, let them know it's their turn. Stay away from her for a couple of months. She'll figure it out on her own once she has to.

Whatever you do, DO NOT accept her back into your home! Let them place her. If you let her come back, there will be more allegations.

Your mother has dementia and this is a documented fact. You're being 'investigated' for financial elder abuse because there's a nursing home involved now. They want to make sure every penny is handed over to them, even the ones they're not entitled to, and that you're not keeping a ten dollar bill under the rug. I wouldn't worry too much over any investigation of your good self.
I would talk to a lawyer though just to find out what your rights are and what you could be entitled to. You were caregiving for your mother and she was living in your house. No one has to allow another person to live in their house for free. No one has to caregive for free either.
You're entitled to have collected rent from your mother, along with her share of the household bills, and for caregiving services.
Talk to a lawyer just to ease your mind. Then stand strong. Don't let your mother or the nursing home intimidate you.

If you are not already doing so I would advise keeping ALL receipts.

Not only did I kept all the receipts for my mother’s diapers, wipes, meds, etc, I also keep an Excel spread sheet showing date of purchase, amount, what was purchased, where purchase, and who paid for it and how it was paid for (cash, credit card, ie check). I funded many of these purchases at the end and I was trying to avoid any wrongdoing claims.
Keep all the bank statements too. I actually kept copies of ALL THE bills.

Good luck.

In re-reading I recall now an old Question of yours, C.:
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/i-have-a-financial-question-about-taxes-can-i-claim-this-on-my-tax-return-472793.htm?orderby=recent
So NOW I AM really concerned for you.
I recall that you said you sold your Mom's home and put it in account YOU had control over and you were asking about taxes. I told you at that time that the proceeds were Mom's and should be in her name, under her SS number. You said she had a gambling problem and you were trying to protect her money. I said you should act on account ONLY as a POA, and needed meticulous records.
If Mom is now claiming financial abuse, and you are being investigated, then yes, I would recommend a lawyer now, and I would get all of your financial records together with that attorney to prove there is no use of Mom's funds from sale of home onward, etc. Bring all your files and receipts.
I worried about you and told you how important it was, all that time ago, to get things separated and get good files and meticulous record keeping OR you could in future face fianancial abuse accusations. I am afraid that day has come. I am assuming you have excellent records, because that's what you will need.
Meanwhile, as I said, be welcoming to APS. Tell them all you have told us. Get all your files together.

Your mother has always been narcissistic anyway and she went into the hospital with a UTI, I wouldn’t worry too much about this allegation or investigation. You know you haven’t mishandled funds in fact it sounds like you have supported her financially as well as physically if you haven’t been charging her rent along with helping with the groceries. She may have made accusations in her UTI rage or anger at hearing she was going to a NH, she may have said something to the coordinator about not being able to afford to live elsewhere because you dumped her there after spending her money and there isn’t any left so the coordinator reported possible abuse. It doesn’t sound like you were visiting or involved much while she was in the hospital (not saying you should have been it was probably the right move) so they don’t know anything other than what she told them. Cooperate with whoever comes to interview you and I doubt it will go any further. I wouldn’t invest in an attorney unless it gets beyond the basic investigation. If it seems like the case is getting legs then I would do my research and figure out what attorney to call should there be a legal charge but that’s a distant possibility I think based on your info.
As far as suing her that seems like a long road that will simply be disruptive to you life and probably feed her narcissistic needs to me. Your husband is pissed and rightfully so, this is the straw that broke the camels back and I can appreciate the temptation for both of you to repay her crap by putting her in the same position but legitimately but unless you or your therapist feels this would be important to your healing why put yourself through the turmoil?

You have gotten yourself to the ultimate place by the sounds of it and I know it wasn’t an easy journey. You have more than covered your responsibility, real or emotional to your mother by taking her in and caring for her because you felt you should as her only remaining child, you have made sure she will be safe and cared for by not taking her back and putting her placement into the hands of the professionals and now you have the control. You don’t have to have anything to do with her care if you don’t want to, you can visit if and when you choose no guilt because her physical needs are met. My guess is she will continue to try to manipulate your life at least for a while but if you don’t give her the reaction she’s really looking for even if that means radio silence for a while it’s possible she will loose interest and put her focus somewhere else. I don’t know if she has any cognitive decline, if so that of course will come into play too. Again just my guess but hearing she was going to a NH and couldn’t go back to your house, wether presented as a strictly medical decision and need or as being because you wouldn’t take her back, loosing her control and ability to manipulate you or making herself the center of attention would have pissed her off either way and she would blame it on you. Try finding the humor in her twisted mind, I know this isn’t easy but the truth is while you have been the focus of her crap all your life it’s never really been about you. There is nothing you have done to create or cause her abuse or her unhappiness and there really isn’t anything you could have done to change it, I’m not sure she was able to change it either without a lot of professional help and since she didn’t recognize a problem… While looking at it that way is sad it may also give you the ability to look at her current antics differently. “Sending authorities after you” may make her feel superior but it’s just going to show her true colors so chuckle and shake your head. When her tune changes to “your house was miserable I didn’t want to be there anymore” you can smile and respond “well I’m glad we found a resolution then” when she demands to come for Easter you can say “oh the kids want to spend it with Joe’s family” and if she is abusive the visit is done, no prob

CS, just stopping by to say keep your chin up, you will prevail! The authorities have to investigate but you will be found innocent. Your time is best spent remaining calm and confident, organizing your financial records of expenditures for your mother, and letting your husband and therapist support you. You'll get through this.

Make sure that you have videos and documentation of your mother's behavior. Make sure that you have receipts for all of your mom's expenses. Have as much "proof"as possible.

Since there are allegations of abuse, please contact a local lawyer that deals with elder law. He or she will be most aware of the law concerning elders and can give you the best advise. Remember that an ALLEGATION of abuse is not a CONVICTION of abuse. What might be helpful is to organize past 6 months of finances to show what you and your husband provide financially and what your mother contributes for her own care. You might also want to create a calendar for the past 6 months of what you have done to meet her needs (doctors' appointments, trips for her social or other needs...) as well as a daily schedule that outlines how you cared for her throughout the day. When the authorities come to question you, be polite and calm. Rely on what you have outlined to show that you have been good caregivers - because you are.

The hallucinations you describe are frequently associated with Lewy Body Dementia. They can be incredibly complex and persist for weeks or months, long after a UTI clears up.

I wouldn’t jump for a lawyer at this time. Take a deep breath. Answer honesty. Include your mother’s diagnosis and provide documentation of how her money has been spent.

Senior Services exists to protect vulnerable elderly, but they’re not out to get you. Won’t it be a relief when they review the facts and you can break away clean?

I don't have much to add the advice already given, but I just wanted to give you a virtual "hug" for all you've been thru. The fact that you took your mom in and cared for her despite how she treats you speaks highly to the type of person you are. I think I would have reacted with shock and disbelief at that call as well. Just when you think you've dealt with all you can deal with, bam! Best wishes to you and don't forget to take care of you.

Definitely get an attorney. An attorney that specializes in elder law is probably best. Hopefully you have records of what you spent from her money. Speak to the attorney about a counter-suit, but I think that sounds unlikely to succeed. For now, just try to heal yourself. Get counseling for yourself, if you need it to help you deal with the pain and disappintments going back to your childhood.

I know it seems overwhelming right now. But try not to go down the rabbit hole of catastrophizing. Every time that feeling of dread starts, start thinking over and over a positive affirmation, like 'it will all work out' or 'the truth will win out'. Even 'i am at last free from my mother'!!! It WILL work out because you have done nothing wrong. Take care of yourself.

ACaringDaughter, I did receive a call from The Office of Senior Services stating that there is an investigation concerning elder financial abuse and was asked about any other abuse within my home while my Mother was residing with me. I didn't react very kindly to the call as I was completely dumbfounded that my Mother was having me investigated. I truly wish I could have remained calm when they called but I was caught completely off guard and completely in shock and disbelief.

Do not hire an attorney unless you are contacted by them in connection with an investigation. Do not participate in any discussions with them or anyone else (by phone or otherwise). Do not submit any explanations or discussions in writing. Do not text, discuss, or blog about this with others.

An attorney who specializes in criminal defense would be the best specialist in this type of case.

OMG I thought that I had sent this as it mirrors what I am going through my mother has been taken into hospital with Delirium and has accused me of emptying her bank account had asked the hospital to back the police I then had social workers calling me asking for proof of bank statements etc I have never touched a penny from her account and she is causing all sorts of trouble I’ve been to a lawyer and citizens advice and was told they can’t ask for these documents unless she is going into a care home the hospital are talking about releasing her back to her house with carers in place The stress is affecting my health and I’m now going to step back as although it’s the illness the badness is in her anyway and always has been never been a good mother so my life is not being put on hold any more but see a solicitor and see what you can do they are capable of draining the life out of you aren’t they? Good luck x

Yes, definitely seek legal counsel. But I would also be willing to cooperate with any investigation into your mom’s finances. You have nothing to hide. Just make sure your accounts are totally separate from hers. Don’t combine your finances. Having her pay her share of living expenses, I think is just fine. Maybe you could have a 3rd party (e.g. a bank or trust company) administrate her money to include medical & living expenses. Take yourself out of responsibility as much as you can.
As it goes for emotional responsibility, free yourself. That doesn’t mean you don’t love her, but draw boundaries and don’t let her cross them. Even if it means her no longer living with you! I grew up with Mommy Dearest. The abuse my sister and I endured was stuff movies are made of.
My mother will be 90 in November. And regardless of anything she may go through, she cannot, WILL NOT live with me. I still show her love but will not get sucked into her narcissistic behavior. She tries to use Bible scriptures to make me feel bad. But I don’t bite. God is love and I show her His kindness by being kind. But kindness does not mean you have to accept her abusive behavior. Cut it off, but love at the same time.
You are important to this world!

I wouldn’t worry about it I went through similar except for I lived with my father who was demented, narcissist. I could no longer tolerate the verbal abuse and reached out to a sibling who came into the house and believed everything that my father was accusing me of I opened a APS case because my sister was accusing me of just abandoning my father. APS tried to explain to my sister that my father had mental issues and that since she has not been around continuously she’s not able to see the decline in him. Anyway I was reported to the police and to the financial institution for stealing. I knew that I did everything in good faith to help my father and that I had nothing to worry about all 3 cases were close. I just pray that my father doesn’t start treating my sister like he treated me cause he’ll be on his own. It’s a tough situation. I was told by all 3 agencies that this is all too common among the elderly with cognitive impairment, as long as you have medical documentation you will be fine. Good luck and if you can distance yourself as much as you can.

I would think that as long as mom is in a facility it would not be necessary to visit your home unless mom complains that she was living in squalor. APS focus is on mom's safety and health. As long as she is in a facility APS should be certain mom is safe.

CSimmers,

Be sure and explain that you cut off activities because she was diagnosed with dementia and her executive function was obviously compromised, proven by the excessive amount of gambling losses. Everything you did was for her safety.

I wouldn't offer them that you had to raise your voice frequently. Sometimes we need to not tell everything in the day to day dealings of a demented mind. You can't understand unless you were there, so it can be misunderstood.

When my dad would accuse me of things and others felt the need to tell me, I would sigh and say "I know." It told people that I wasn't surprised by his false accusations and I had nothing to defend against. You are in those shoes, you have nothing to defend against.

It is okay to be shook up about this whole situation. Just try not to defend yourself by offering to much information, it looks like you are trying to justify something.

They will probably come to your home but, you can require that it be a scheduled appointment and have your husband present to help keep you on point. He should park his anger at your mthr and just hold your hand. Arraign a word in advance that can be said to help you stay calm and get back to the questions.

Most importantly, listen to the questions very carefully and only answer the actual question. If you don't fully understand, say so, make them clarify what it is they are asking.

I want to send you a great big warm hug full of strength, courage and wisdom to help you be strong as you go through this. I have no doubt that you are still reeling from the shock of yet another viscous attack from this thing you call mom. Remember to breathe and remember that you didn't do what she is accusing you of.

You can do it!

CS; I hope that you understand the role of the "mandated reported".

A mandated reporter is someone who, by law, must call in a complaint to the state hotline if they are informed of abuse.

They are NOT allowed to use any discretion. They are not allowed to say to themselves "this is a crazy person, I can't believe ANYTHING she tells me".

They have to call it in (at least that was the rules we played by when I was a mandated reported). So please don't think that anyone actually believes what your mother is telling them. They HAVE to call.

CS; I didn't mean that you were calm on the phone--anyone would be furious!

I mean that you are going to be calm when they come out to see you.

I'm glad that the lawyer reassured you.

Call your doctor and get some temporary relief for your (totally understandable) insomnia.

Hang in there. (((((hugs)))))))