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If you’re hearing this from the elder with dementia, please try to be sure that the thefts are really truly happening. Dementia causes false beliefs and usually directed at those closest to them. So a vistor will hear from elder that live in caregiver daughter is stealing from them..... taken their shoes, necklace, etc....
But if it is, who is the DPOA? Whomever is DPOA should the one that deals with this. Just what happens depends on what was stolen and where. Like fraudulent check cashed is different than identity theft or stealing out of grannies purse.
if no DPOA, you can contact APS. But realize if APS gets involved that can means police report or request to a court. If the elder won’t file press charges, then it goes nowhere. It has to be pretty significant amount of $ or threat to life for APS to go to court to have elder named a ward of the state so that a court appointed guardian takes over and takes control of their person & finances. Guardian can keep the thief from access to the elder & can file police report.
watch what you wish for though. If APS or guardianship, family can find themselves outside of any say or input on the elder living situation.
igloo572: "If your Aunt just don’t face reality, then please please make sure that you personally do not ever get tagged to have to pay for grans care. Do not ever sign anything for her. Be there for Grannie but do not, do not get sucked into being financially responsible for gran."
Wise words, and I'd add to make sure that you don't end up being the unpaid caregiver, even if the alternative means Grannie becoming a ward of the state.
Depends on several factors. Such as risk of strife in family. Who has POA?
Lad was stealing from his gran - my great aunt. We were sat in the side room with her and he just sauntered in to the other room and took money from her purse. Then he saw us... and made excuses ...
We checked with her - he was doing it regularly but she didn’t want a fuss as it was her grandson. So we visited more often and at different days/ times - which seemed to cut the amount of theft.
If you have POA you can control what monies go in and out of their account. If it’s cash - ensure they never have more than one note in their purse/wallet.
If not got POA - can try confronting them and asking why they would take money from someone they know is vulnerable or speak to bank regarding suspicious activity on the person’s account if being taken via bank card.
Check with your state about laws protecting the elderly, especially those with dementia. You may find you having some legal and police backing. Additionally, your aunt is failing in her fiduciary duty to Grandma. Does your Grandmother have the competency to give permission for your aunt to give away Grandmother's money? If not, this is a crime. Plus, if your grandmother has to go on Medicare / Medicaid, that money had better be accounted for.
Would you confirm that your grandmother gave permission? Are you willing to confront your aunt to require her to produce evidence of grandmother's permission? Are you willing to tell her you'll contact the police, if you feel there's a crime being committed?
Years ago, I got a call from my sister who had steam coming out of her ears. She'd found out her daughter (my niece) had scammed our mother. Niece admitted she'd cry to Grandma about money troubles and sweet Mom would dig into her savings. Niece knew Mom wouldn't remember. From Mom's statements, they'd go through the bank drive-through a couple times a day! Mom was BROKE!
That's what gave me the idea to get DPOA for Mom's finances. It was clear, because of other things too, that Mom couldn't handle her finances anymore.
We sisters knew Mom wouldn't press charges against her granddaughter, so it was up to us sisters to put a stop to it. As Mom's POA, from my mouth to Niece's ear I told her that her grandmother was in the protected class with her dementia. State law protected those with dementia from financial abuse. I told her pointblank if she approached Mom again for money I'd call the police and I would press charges. She never did it again.
Kay, ok thanks for the details. So your Aunt who is the dpoa is failing in her required as a DPOA fiduciary responsibility. Perhaps letting her know that her inaction will likely cause serious repercussions for not only gran but for herself will make her grow a spine??
what might, maybe might, have her rethink being passive is that if gran should need a higher level of care and needs to go into a facility, and does not have the $ to private pay, that Grannie will not be eligible for Medicaid. Grans banking shows gifting & Medicaid will require 5 years of all financials except for a couple of states. Gifting places transfer penalty on her application and Medicaid won’t pay. The issue then will be that as Medicaid application takes a bit to process, Grannie is creating a bill at the NH. When Medicaid sends the denial letter to Grannie & her DPOA, it also send letter to the NH. NH will in short order bill Grannie & the dpoa for grans bill to date. NH avg like $8k mo & Medicaid can take 3-6 mos to process. (Like my moms was 5.5 mos to clear). Bill could easily be $35,000 - $60,000 that Grannie owes. Grans impoverished, so doesn’t have $. But NH will go after the DPOA and bill your Aunt & file a 30 day notice on eviction. If she doesn’t pay, then NH will likely either themselves file to make them her representative payee for Grans SS; OR the NH asks APS to do a filing for emergency ward of the state action to be done on Grans behalf. Courts do these all the time and that guardian has a lot of power..... like they can file charges against your Aunt for lack of fiduciary duty and endangerment of a vulnerable adult and file theft and endangerment against the happy hands niece. Family not excluded from any input on grannies care too now as all is under the guardian purview. Yeah horrors! This stuff happens.
I’m guessing Auntie is in fear of her kid & in denial of grannies needs. That she can do whatever caregiving for her mom & your Grannie will never ever need a NH and even if she did that MediCARE and insurance will take care of it along with grannies SS check. Yeah sure and I’m getting into those size 6 slacks I keep in my closet.
your know your aunt best.... would providing her info on what NH cost and info on the required Medicaid financial review of 5 years, etc. actually scare her enough to stop the stealing? If you know it’s 10k, I bet it’s actually way way more & perhaps happy hands has done other things to Grannie, like gotten her to co-sign for her. This site is littered with stories of grandkids behaving badly... like 6 figure gifts for a weddings, signing over homes, placing them as co-signer for student loans & invariably the parent makes excuses & in denial.
If your Aunt just don’t face reality, then please please make sure that you personally do not ever get tagged to have to pay for grans care. Do not ever sign anything for her. Be there for Grannie but do not, do not get sucked into being financially responsible for gran. If you have the time & $, you could file to become grannies guardian and as guardian you remove all oversight and involvement from your Aunt & her kids. Likely serious rift till forever in your family.
out of curiosity what’s the stance of your mom/dad as to your Aunt, thier sibling?
If the person is stealing money from a purse or wallet or “cookie jar” it makes sense to remove any money, jewelry or anything else of value that could be sold for cash from the house. If the suspected thief is stealing from a bank account or anything like that, I’d wonder how they got access. Do they have POA? And if you suspect this, you must have solid proof of the theft before you accuse. You must prove that the person is using the money for their own gains and not using it to care for the person.
My aunt is actually POA and is aware of the theft being made and hasn’t done anything about it because it is her own daughter. More then 10 grand has been taken and my Gma has no idea this is going on. My aunt being POA is in charge of her money and just lets it happen. My aunt tries saying she (my aunt) have permission for her daughter to take the money, which makes no sense because it is not her money to take. That money is for my gmas care. What else can be done?
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Dementia causes false beliefs and usually directed at those closest to them. So a vistor will hear from elder that live in caregiver daughter is stealing from them..... taken their shoes, necklace, etc....
But if it is, who is the DPOA? Whomever is DPOA should the one that deals with this. Just what happens depends on what was stolen and where. Like fraudulent check cashed is different than identity theft or stealing out of grannies purse.
if no DPOA, you can contact APS. But realize if APS gets involved that can means police report or request to a court. If the elder won’t file press charges, then it goes nowhere. It has to be pretty significant amount of $ or threat to life for APS to go to court to have elder named a ward of the state so that a court appointed guardian takes over and takes control of their person & finances. Guardian can keep the thief from access to the elder & can file police report.
watch what you wish for though. If APS or guardianship, family can find themselves outside of any say or input on the elder living situation.
Wise words, and I'd add to make sure that you don't end up being the unpaid caregiver, even if the alternative means Grannie becoming a ward of the state.
Lad was stealing from his gran - my great aunt. We were sat in the side room with her and he just sauntered in to the other room and took money from her purse. Then he saw us... and made excuses ...
We checked with her - he was doing it regularly but she didn’t want a fuss as it was her grandson. So we visited more often and at different days/ times - which seemed to cut the amount of theft.
If you have POA you can control what monies go in and out of their account. If it’s cash - ensure they never have more than one note in their purse/wallet.
If not got POA - can try confronting them and asking why they would take money from someone they know is vulnerable or speak to bank regarding suspicious activity on the person’s account if being taken via bank card.
Would you confirm that your grandmother gave permission? Are you willing to confront your aunt to require her to produce evidence of grandmother's permission? Are you willing to tell her you'll contact the police, if you feel there's a crime being committed?
Years ago, I got a call from my sister who had steam coming out of her ears. She'd found out her daughter (my niece) had scammed our mother. Niece admitted she'd cry to Grandma about money troubles and sweet Mom would dig into her savings. Niece knew Mom wouldn't remember. From Mom's statements, they'd go through the bank drive-through a couple times a day! Mom was BROKE!
That's what gave me the idea to get DPOA for Mom's finances. It was clear, because of other things too, that Mom couldn't handle her finances anymore.
We sisters knew Mom wouldn't press charges against her granddaughter, so it was up to us sisters to put a stop to it. As Mom's POA, from my mouth to Niece's ear I told her that her grandmother was in the protected class with her dementia. State law protected those with dementia from financial abuse. I told her pointblank if she approached Mom again for money I'd call the police and I would press charges. She never did it again.
what might, maybe might, have her rethink being passive is that if gran should need a higher level of care and needs to go into a facility, and does not have the $ to private pay, that Grannie will not be eligible for Medicaid. Grans banking shows gifting & Medicaid will require 5 years of all financials except for a couple of states. Gifting places transfer penalty on her application and Medicaid won’t pay. The issue then will be that as Medicaid application takes a bit to process, Grannie is creating a bill at the NH. When Medicaid sends the denial letter to Grannie & her DPOA, it also send letter to the NH. NH will in short order bill Grannie & the dpoa for grans bill to date. NH avg like $8k mo & Medicaid can take 3-6 mos to process. (Like my moms was 5.5 mos to clear). Bill could easily be $35,000 - $60,000 that Grannie owes. Grans impoverished, so doesn’t have $. But NH will go after the DPOA and bill your Aunt & file a 30 day notice on eviction. If she doesn’t pay, then NH will likely either themselves file to make them her representative payee for Grans SS; OR the NH asks APS to do a filing for emergency ward of the state action to be done on Grans behalf. Courts do these all the time and that guardian has a lot of power..... like they can file charges against your Aunt for lack of fiduciary duty and endangerment of a vulnerable adult and file theft and endangerment against the happy hands niece. Family not excluded from any input on grannies care too now as all is under the guardian purview. Yeah horrors! This stuff happens.
I’m guessing Auntie is in fear of her kid & in denial of grannies needs.
That she can do whatever caregiving for her mom & your Grannie will never ever need a NH and even if she did that MediCARE and insurance will take care of it along with grannies SS check. Yeah sure and I’m getting into those size 6 slacks I keep in my closet.
your know your aunt best.... would providing her info on what NH cost and info on the required Medicaid financial review of 5 years, etc. actually scare her enough to stop the stealing? If you know it’s 10k, I bet it’s actually way way more & perhaps happy hands has done other things to Grannie, like gotten her to co-sign for her. This site is littered with stories of grandkids behaving badly... like 6 figure gifts for a weddings, signing over homes, placing them as co-signer for student loans & invariably the parent makes excuses & in denial.
If your Aunt just don’t face reality, then please please make sure that you personally do not ever get tagged to have to pay for grans care. Do not ever sign anything for her. Be there for Grannie but do not, do not get sucked into being financially responsible for gran.
If you have the time & $, you could file to become grannies guardian and as guardian you remove all oversight and involvement from your Aunt & her kids. Likely serious rift till forever in your family.
out of curiosity what’s the stance of your mom/dad as to your Aunt, thier sibling?