My MIL lived by herself in squalor for several years after FIL came to live with husband and me for two years, he passed in 2023 of Parkinson’s. She’s a smart, obstinant, private person who values her independence highly but now needs more help though she’s very particular and mistrustful about how she lets people help her. Gets around with a walker, toilets herself.
She stayed with my husband and I for seven months recently, sandwiched by two hospital stays. After 5-6 weeks of SNF rehab she’s now about to be discharged from Medicare coverage. She thinks she can’t afford to pay for care whereas in reality she has many resources but is disorganized and loves giving her money away to church, friends and charity.
I think she’s now best off at an AL where she can keep getting regular meals and transport to dialysis, my husband after a lifetime of manipulation by his mom is inclined to bring her back with us. She clearly wants to come back to us. She recently told my husband she will be living on the streets. I think this is emotional blackmail.
Spoke with social worker today, she says if their doctor judges that she is competent, they can’t stop her from just leaving. I’m looking into ALs in our area and have spoke with her a little about those options. My fear is that she will refuse to sign any papers accepting responsibility to pay for any facility once Medicare stops paying. Call my husband saying she’s sitting outside the facility in her wheelchair. And guilt-trip my husband into letting her into the car and bringing her back to our house against my will.
It’s very hard for him, he’s an only child and there’s the idea of an inheritance that she dangles. She has a lot of self esteem built into giving her current income away and so doesn’t thinks she can afford a facility whereas in reality she can, she would just have to make some changes. Easier said than done. You can’t make her do anything. Help!
I am also super happy to hear that your husband is not willing to abandon his mom at this late stage of life, he is a good man for that.
I just want to encourage you to keep your boundaries and do what you feel you should. It becomes a balancing act when we are faced with an aging parent that is a 1st class manipulator. My dad was one and it was sooooooo hard to determine what was him being him and what was loss of executive functions. Prayers for you and your family that this works well for her and that you find the balance of loving her and not losing you in the process.
Great big warm hugs!
I called the new place today just to see about her options for transport to dialysis. They informed that she’s only made plans to stay there for two days. Maybe she’s still hoping to go to the apartments by her church, or maybe she’ll try to come back to us some more. Sigh.
I promise you, it will all work out in the end. Try getting hubby to tell Mom therapeutic fibs, such as, "Mom, I have a bad back, I can't take care of you." Or "Mom, the kids just moved back in, we don't have the room." Something that would force her to make a choice because she truly gets that there is no other option (as far as she knows.)
She has many options, some of them better some not so great. She is extremely wily and willful. We are doing our best.
I know that lying to folks with dementia is often suggested as a kind and helpful strategy in some circumstances. My MIL doesn’t have dementia. And it’s important to me to continue to behave according to my own values. So I will not lie to her nor suggest to my husband that he do. Besides, the truth is strong enough to stand on its own. And many times we might think we have to offer our answers and explanations for people who don’t like our choices, whereas in reality many times we don’t. I have not attempted to explain to MIL why she’s not coming back to us because 1) it’s a long, complex conversation that in part involves some bad behavior on her part and 2) if we let her think it’s up for discussion it will just prolong the mess as she attempts to manipulate through argumentation. The kindest thing we can do for her now is just continue to hold the line so she can at least have the opportunity to face the reality of her situation sooner and deal with it.
Now she texts back saying I “need” to stay with you overnight until I work things out. Or at least sleep in your driveway tonight in my car. Or else I pay a steep fee to stay here at the facility one more night.
I know I have to say no to her coming to our address. But I don’t want to be mean about it.
Often ESRD go into a NH/SNF - even if they are functioning well on their ADLs - as a NH will have more staffing for the oversight more readily.
Which is to say that in spite of any coordinating hubs and I might attempt to do on her behalf, she’s still gonna be all “I did it MYYY WAYYY!” 🎶🎼🎤 She’s stubborn and proud to be, I think.
Anyway, as far as I know, she might not even spring for AL, she may still be thinking of doing Independent Living. Which we feel would be a mistake but what can you do? She’s made arrangements to stay where she is till Monday at which time I’m told she’s going to try to get a senior living apartment near her church. 🤔🤨🫣 maybe her friends there will step up for her?? Meals, rides to dialysis, someone to watch over her?? We will be 30-40 minutes away if she goes there.
Hubs and I have had so many neglected needs of our own in the last few years: social, financial, homeowner matters, health. It makes it harder to pull back when we do care and want to help in ways we reasonably can but she continues to make these half-baked choices that keep her precariously hovering on the edge. I am tentatively hopeful in that at least she seems to understand now she won’t be staying with us again. It’s a step in the right direction and we’ll just see how it goes from here. Thanks. 🙂
Today the social worker is telling us that MIL has made arrangements to move out tomorrow to a particular facility in a nearby town that offers independent living, AL and memory care! Amazing! It looks like a fantastic place, just what she needs. Nurse and social worker are in agreement: this has been settled, it’s happening, she’s going tomorrow after dialysis.
I text MIL to offer help transferring her dialysis to the nearby town. She says, They are jumping the gun. I don’t know where I’m going tomorrow. I haven’t made my decision yet. 😂 😭😭
Hubs is going over to talk with her now.
In any case I’ve already told my family the harsher take, I think I won’t correct that impression. Money can be motivating and if the thought of having to pay big bucks for her rehab stay keeps her out of a hotel it’s definitely for the better.
Let her dangle the possibility of an inheritance. She wouldn't be the first senior who plays their kids this way and thinks of possible future inheritance as an insurance policy that guarantees their kids keep them out of a "home".
It never works out that way. People get places anyway.
It's your house too and if you don't want her there, you don't have to have her. So let your husband know that if he doesn't want to end up a divorced man that doesn't have two nickels to rub together, he's not moving his mother in.
We tried and tried and the elder children just gave up. When she died at ninety-five in a broiling hot (115 degrees Austin, Texas August) she wasn’t discovered for two days. Imagine what all six of us and spouses and grandchildren walked into.
So, as a family that trued hard to do the right thing for from age seventy-seven, please begin sooner than later. Yes, in some states, children can be responsible for care bills and the HOA tried to force we children to pay for huge damages by beginning foreclosure on the condo when my husband’s six siblings refused to pay.
Keep careful notes, consult good attorneys if you can find and afford them. Learn the laws of your state. There are also sometimes possible Elder Abandonment and Abuse/Neglect laws and potential charges. Just in Texas, the stories are legion and most children drag their feet and put things off until crisis after crisis. Unsafe discharge can easily be talked around by the elder. Photos and check stubs for bills can help when presented at the right time.
Time and time again, even a few days after a double mastectomy at ninety-three and on oxygen from “mild” COPD and years of heavy drinking, Mum-in-law was discharged home. Even with no one there or a care plan.
Now I am facing this same battle again with my own parents.
Take care and good luck!
And some valuable lessons learned. I appreciate your tips. My MIL didn’t receive mail at our home but we did let her use our PO Box, most still went to her PO Box in another city. At your urging I looked into laws in my state. It looks like we were edging towards establishing legal tenancy for her here even without a lease, because we did accept some occasional money from her for things like utilities and tires for a car, and because of the length of time, and that she had personal items here. She won’t be coming back if I can help it, so that won’t be a risk going forward. If they have legal residency in your home you have to go through an eviction process in court to get them out, if they won’t go voluntarily. That’d be loads of fun I’m sure. One more reason to put our foot down now.
Going back to her own home—in our case I don’t see that happening, for mobility reasons, no working toilet, severe mold developing etc.
She’s talking hotel but today I learned that if she goes to live by herself somewhere she’d be leaving AMA against medical advice in which case Medicare wouldn’t pay for her now 6 week stay in rehab, she would have to pay for it herself. Which would almost certainly cause dear MIL to break out in severe hives and fits of swearing. 😃
Get some brochures ready for her. Don't let her back in to get her stuff, she will try to stay again. DH can bring it to her. He needs to emphasize that AL is having the luxury of no more cooking, cleaning and laundry. She can be waited on by professionals. AL is NOT some prison or asylum of the 1940s. DH needs to tell Mom she can afford it, just stop giving her money away.
You are in your 50s and these are your last prime years. Don't spend them on caregiving elderly MIL. She has had a long life already. DH already took Dad in, so has done enough. I'd tell DH it's his marriage or his Mom, period.
She who pays runs the show!
Got to ask, what is the status on late FIL estate & probate?
You mentioned in a follow up post that “their wills are sitting in an open box” and you have concerns on this and what to do with these when she moves into IL/AL.
So FIL, who died in 2023, has his Estate opened? or just what???
There’s an attorney who is handling probate? What’s happening here?
Actually imo this is very VERY important to know the status on as the distribution on his Estate has a direct impact on her ability to sign off on that legal contract for admissions into an AL or a NH. And it’s still in probate, having a probate atty gives you & hubs an opportunity to move into other legal ways to have her assets from that Estate get used to pay for her care. You are going to be some kinda beyond pissed off if she balks on paying AL rent and they come after Hubs to pay her bill. Essentially since he doesn’t work, he is a non-income producing spouse, it ends up being all your $ paying for her. Ditto if she stays at the Nh rehab place after she is officially discharged from Medicare paid rehab benefits and she’s there racking up a bill as she won’t leave.
If there is an atty currently still working with y’all on FIL stuff, call them asap to set up a meeting with hubs and you to go over its status and options on what to do to ensure her money used for her direct needs. Or if probate is done, call the attorney who did it as there is a relationship there. It may end up that probate guy will suggest a CELA level of attorney to come in for all this to give options that work for how your States legal runs. Dealing with someone like MIL cannot be a DIY as hubs does not have the backbone to make the hard decisions to segregate himself from Mommy; and enforce them.
You actually have the upper hand in all this as it’s your home (in your name, right?) and you are the income source. You can file for divorce and have your pittbullie of a divorce attorney do a freeze of joint assets till a settlement is worked through. Sounds like you have no kids, no dependents….. got to tell you a good atty can get joint $ frozen quickly; and in his 50s hubs will have to either get a job or find a place for him and mommy so he’s her erstwhile caregiver and her $ used to household expenses. You will be ok as you have your own income and property. It won’t be pretty but please pls plz realize you have this as a plan to fall back on; you have this power.
Remember “inheritance” has no guarantees.
She has money that is hers to pay for care, that does not have to go through probate, I can tell you that.
If she is incontinent he is the one to clean and change her.
If she needs a bath or shower he is the one to bathe her.
He can wash her hair, style it bring her to the salon if she goes to one....
He does her laundry, change her bedding.
He is the one to take her to doctor appointments, manage her medications.
I am one to really dislike ultimatums but if he does bring her back to your home this becomes a marriage problem, a lack of respect problem just as much a caregiving problem.
Just to satisfy yourself make an appointment with a lawyer and see where you would stand if you were to separate or divorce if he does bring MIL back to your home. (Cost of that VS the cost to MIL for AL? Something for him to think about!)
I have a couple of specific concerns. One is that she’s got her and her late husband’s wills just sitting out in the bedroom at our house in their folders. So she takes them to an AL room or apartment with her? They were in a locked box at her house and she got them out, so she/we could see them and see what needs to be done. There are things that need to be done sooner than later about probate for FIL. Maybe we suggest getting the lock box from her house and having them stay here? Or with her? Who knows what she’ll agree too. She’s also got a big box of mail in our living room including bills and such. It feels like such a vulnerable situation, she’s not handling all the financial stuff timely and the issues are piling up (unpaid homeowners insurance, deteriorating house, probate, unregistered vehicles, taxes etc). And if she ends up in another city it may get even harder to intervene to prevent some of the worse outcomes.
Also, I’ve been thinking about that scenario where she “accidentally” ends up back here in spite of our discussions and planning. So I move out for a while—it would be doable but inconvenient as I wouldn’t have access to my home office and other things at home. But isn’t that like she “wins”? Meaning, knowing her, I could totally see her being fine with “taking over” our house and me not even being here. My husband wouldn’t like it. But his mom likely wouldn’t even care! She’d be fine with it! So I guess it gets back to my husband again and the marriage and what he’s willing or not to do. I’m really hoping this doesn’t get messy. I’m going to go start packing just in case.
So just an update, someone from *** called and said her last Medicare day is Thursday. And that your mom told them she doesn’t have a plan. Or that her plan is to “call her son later today”. They will send the social worker in to talk with her.
DH, your mom cannot come back to us even to “get her things” until she has made the financial arrangements for wherever she goes next. Please continue to make that clear to her.
I do not recommend a stop at your home . She may refuse to leave.
In addition to that , don’t even transport her to her next stop in one of your cars .
Have her go by medical transport van from rehab to her new home . Best money I ever spent . It avoids the guilt trip, tears , drama , in the car on the way , and possible refusal to get out of your car at her new home . She will be brought straight inside her new home by the transport driver.
If you can , get her in an AL for at least a 30 day trial . By me they will do that .
Find one that can take her now. She can always tour others.
The second is to step away from inputting on whatever her next move will be. She sounds like the type to futz around until she finds out. Theres a less polite explanation for FAFO.
She’s asked a friend to help her find an apartment in a nearby city where she knows a lot of people so we’ll see where she gets with that. Independent living is going to be a tough road for her. I think AL makes more sense, so we may go ahead and tour a nearby AL facility to be able to recommend it to her in more detail. Maybe invite her to tour it with us just for greens.
Last July when we asked her to leave she went to an extended stay hotel for a couple of weeks. I could see her doing that again because she’s stubborn and doesn’t want to pay for a more care-oriented place (and honestly that time she was probably counting on us having her back). Called EMS twice after falling, no broken bones fortunately. We allowed her back. This time I’ve told dh that even though we may try to help her, ultimately it’s her choice where she goes as long as it’s not here, and he seems to be listening.
I cried on Saturday when I read your answers, thank you. I so appreciate your feedback. I’ve done more thinking on it than I’ve described here. Last December when I was getting fed up with her presence and ways dh told me “I might have to go somewhere and live with my mom” !!! and I said “so we’ll be seeing a divorce lawyer very soon” !!! (thanks to reading on this forum!) and he got a faraway look and said “oh I don’t want to get divorced”. ;)
Recently we spoke with a counselor about the situation who stressed that harmony in the marriage should be the priority, since this relationship will be around longer than his mom. He seems to have taken the advice to heart.
[I’ve also made the point several times that if I end up with a disabled husband because he gets a stroke in the next 5-8 years (he developed high blood pressure while his dad was living with us and is still under treatment for it) that it would create a HUGE financial hardship. The stress and health impacts are just not worth playing the inheritance lottery!]
We’re in our mid 50s, she’s in her early 80s. I earn a decent living for the two of us and handle the finances, he does more of the household duties. Dh goes to the pharmacy, buys her special groceries for her kidney diet, washes her clothes, fixes food, drives her places. While she was here I made (and still make) phone calls for her care, researched (and still research) financial issues, tidied her room at our house, got her breakfast on the weekends. Counseled my husband about her. So less than he does, but still participating.
Thank you thank you thank you. I’ll keep you posted. ❤️
However, if you feel that you cannot say no to him bringing her into your home, at least say no to doing anything towards looking after her. This is your husband's decision, so it is his responsibility to care for his mum.
Also, your money should not go towards looking after your m-i-l. She has her own money to pay for her expenses. Yours and your husband's money is needed for your own care.
I was facing temporary homelessness a few years ago, and my daughter said that I should stay with her family. I thanked her but refused. I would have moved into the worst accommodation, if that was all that was available, rather than impose myself on her family.
You can also quietly, without telling your husband, meet with a divorce lawyer and possibly a financial advisor about scenarios if you were to separate and divorce. You don't need to start the process, but know where things stand to protect yourself in case it comes to that point.
Don't just bring up ALs with her, gather the info and sit down with your husband and emphasize how much better of a situation it would be for her as well as for the two of you for her to be in one. If you are able to present a united front to her, emphasizing the benefits of a community for her, it will be so much better than it being presented as your husband wanting her in your home but being obstructed by you.
I hope this will work out for you. However you need to do it, stand your ground. Keep us posted on how things go.
If you go down that path, consider splitting your assets and taking your half out of any joint accounts. If you don’t, you can be controlled by money if he cleans them out first. Stop worrying about what MIL and DH might do, and start looking after yourself a bit more.
That doesn't mean that she needs to leave to your care.
As long as you are all the solutions there will BE no solutions.
You say this of your husband:
"It’s very hard for him, he’s an only child and there’s the idea of an inheritance that she dangles."
Fine, then.
As long as trading his time and care for an inheritance it is his considered choice as an adult that this is a good trade. Which is his business. As it is your business whether or not you choose to remain involved in all of this.
I truly wish you the best, but you are an adult, and the decisions are yours, as are the consequences of them.
Me, I would put my foot down, he needs to make a choice her or me, end of story.
If she says no to going into a facility then she will have to figure out another option, her circus her monkeys.
Obviously your husband is a weak willy, time for him to make a choice.
The ball is in your court.
Sounds like it's time for the OP to make an appointment with a divorce lawyer.