My Mom is spending all her money not thinking of nursing home care, medication & funeral arrangements. Advice?

Pursue Guardianship. She will get mad and slam the door on the court liaison, but that will only work in your favor.

Oh, honey. You are right to be concerned.

If she is an alcoholic, you will not be able to get her to see the light. She has a long way to go on understanding herself and, given the circumstances, not enough time for that to happen.

I say, get thee to a lawyer. FAST!!!!!

Is she competent? If so, you're definitely need to remind her to take responsibility for basic daily expenses or pay the consequences later. As for funeral, I strongly agree with you because if you can't afford to pay for someone else's expenses then you should definitely remind her of that. She definitely needs a wake up call on reality because too many people assume that everything will be taken care off after their death, only to financially strained the family later. She needs to make sure her arrangements are paid up along with opening and closing of the grave if she's having a traditional burial. If she's competent, she really needs to take some serious responsibility in this and other areas. Take for example the food situation. What if she ran out of money and could not buy food? If the food bank wants to see receipts of where all of her money went, they may decide not to help her if they discover she wasted her money. Another situation is paying for housing and utilities. What if she was homeless during winter with no shelter? She would not survive the elements. She really needs to be reminded to take care of herself or pay the consequences. Tell her in advance that if she runs into a financial shortage because of her spending habits that you won't be supporting her because you can't afford it afford to. She definitely needs to be warned well in advance and you yourself are struggling financially and you know that if she goes down financially that you cannot pick her up and carry her financially. You definitely want to find out where all of her money is going. If she's already strapped in paying for necessary expenses like past bills then that's definitely understandable because she's at least making an effort to pay off old bills. If this is not the case, then you definitely need to find out what's really going on and why. One thing to remember is that with Christmas coming up, she may actually be buying Christmas gifts for people on her Christmas list. She should be reminded that our money is a one time gift that won't last forever if she doesn't spend wisely. If it turns out that she's really incompetent, then what you may end up having to do is to go for guardianship. Guardianship is a very big responsibility with a few downfalls. Let's say she wants money for something but you've already taken over all of her financial affairs. She may get mad if you don't give her any money beyond whatever limit you may have set for her. She may even accuse you of stealing her money, which in some cases turns out to be right when guardians misuses the money of the principal. However, this is not always the case because some guardians actually have the principal's best interest at heart. If you find that you must go for guardianship, You'll want to try to do it in a way where are you and your mom are both happy. Some people are certainly not happy about having a guardian over them since guardians basically control their lives. However, sometimes having a guardian is necessary in some cases, but having the right one is key to providing a happy life for the principal.

Call an Elder Law attorney. If she is able to live independently it might be hard to get guardianship. Does she have friends that could help? In our area there is a geriatric psychiatric unit. See if there is one near her. I would try to get her involuntary commitmented (302) into a geriatric psych ward for a mental health, & cognitive evaluation and to address the alcoholism. The involuntary commitment will help to build the case for guardianship. She sounds lonely and may be grieving the loss of her step daughter. Aging is hard and if she has been drinking for years she could have consequences. Your description sound like her cognitive abilities are intact and that her mental health is the issue here. The fact that you say she is dressed to the nines and lives independently gives me the impression that if you pursue guardianship without a 302 you will not have the documentation to obtain guardianship. If you are able to find a geriatric psych unit in your area call them for advice. Another route you might take is finding a compassionate female financial planner to meet with her about money management as you age. Take her to the financial planners office she will behave better. I hope this helps. I will pray for her and you.

How old is she? If she is 85 or so, that's one thing. If she is 55, that's another. Or 45! It really is her money, and while you are concerned that there will not be enough money in the future, maybe she is thinking of the inheritance as "found money" that she would not have had, anyway. Sometimes, because 'we' think one way, that doesn't mean that everyone thinks the same way.

When I was going back over your post, something you described sounded very familiar. An elderly friend of mine used to do something you described. He also used to call me when he was having a crisis. It seems like when I got there, it already passed. This seems to happen a lot until it got to the point where I just couldn't handle it anymore. This was when I had to start telling him that I just can't help because there was nothing within my power that I could do. He apparently came to the point of admitting that I couldn't do anything but he wanted me there. Of course there were times I just couldn't be there, and one person can only do so much. I agree with the person who said it sounds like you're loved one is probably just lonely, because so was mine. I'm discovering how hindsight is really a very good teacher because I'm now starting to wonder if he had too much time on his hands. For some people, being alone too much can actually spell trouble to some degree or another. I eventually heard someone say that my friend may have been becoming demented in early stages. All of the professionals who knew him best who knew his situation even far better than I did. I may have been the one closest to him but I sure didn't know everything. Right toward the end of his time in the free world, he started opening up about some secrets he was hiding, One of them being that he was hiding money while enjoying government benefits and the other was his admitted abuse of albuterol. He saw the doctor that day and he told me that his doctor said that it was determined he was abusing albuterol because he was overusing it, he told me these two things out of his own mouth. In fact, he had a bad habit of frequenting the ER. I should also mention that all of his medicine was locked up in a lockbox. I didn't think anything of the albuterol until he told me, only then did I noticed that his stash was suddenly missing. Right then I assumed that it was locked up. I take the same medicine and I know that you can make your heart race even when used properly. What I think was probably going on is that he was turning to drugs as his only other companion when no one else could be there. This may also be why he was frequenting the ER instead of taking his prescribed medication as directed. Most of the time he went for breathing issues which could easily be solved at home as this was eventually discovered. Only after this was discovered was it also discovered that he was secretly overusing the albuterol. This may have something to do with why he claimed to have had a heart attack one day. Again, albuterol can and does make your heart race. You may want to be very watchful and make sure your loved one is not abusing prescribed medication. Prolonged loneliness can do some very nasty stuff people, even to the point where some of them may start abusing prescribed medication. Another thing I also noticed how my elderly friend would pull stuff on unsuspecting people who really didn't know him or his situation. He would pick people who really didn't know much if anything. This is how he chose his victims. Definitely be very watchful of behavioral patterns, especially when he's around people that you all don't know because remember, they may not know what's really going on if your loved one has a tendency to pull stuff on the unsuspecting. If this happens to be the case, you may want to warn them privately so that they know what to watch for and how to handle it.

Thank you all for sharing. My father had a gambling problem, but thank God he lost an interest in it. I am praying that we can now use his money to get him home care or assistant living. Everyone needs to talk about this issue of what to do when we get old. I need to talk to my family as well. I agree wholeheartedly with those who gave advice to see a lawyer. Parents think that because they have children that the children are going to step up to the plate if or when they get sick. I thank God for giving my father enough heath insurance and resources to put him in a facility that can provide him with the professional care he needs. I have no problem with visiting him as often as I can. If anyone knows me, they know that I am one who likes to visit.

how did you get him in the facility, teachermuni?

Alcoholics have amazing ways to manipulate people, especially family members. I would get legal advice on your options, but I would also contact a support group for family members of Alcoholics and Addicts. They can offer you support. I might also consult with a professional about her condition to learn how to not enable her.

Yes her age is a big factor. Medicaid looks back five years. She is safe if young. If 70 and above maybe a problem. Is she on SSD? Those monies needed to be reported. If on SS and underthe age of 66 she can't bring in more than 14,400 in additional income without being penalized. I feel for you.

I am so sorry for you. One of my husbands died from alcoholism. He was very good at taking care of himself. The illness he died from was fluid or something in his belly. They had to drain him daily near the end. At least it felt like it was daily. He was forced to stop drinking as he died. I had left him years ago as I could no longer live with him in the condition he chose. I had three children. My leaving was not an easy one. Within a year of my divorce, I married the most wonderful man. When it came time for my previous husband to pass, My new husband told me to go and take care of him in his last days. We both knew that alcoholism was a disease. I was blessed to have a husband who understood the disease. He too was an alcoholic, but had quit about a year before we married. He NEVER had a drink the entire time we were together. He died about 7 years ago, but not from alcohol. I worry about your mom being left with no one when everyone has tried everything. The alcoholic has one thing on his/her mind and that is where they get the next drink. It is a horrible disease and hard to quit. I will keep you in my prayers.

Mother is going through this emotion as well. She has COPD and isn't thinking about anything except for what she can spend her money on today.

Playitagain--sorry to hear about your situation. So that you know I know what I am talking about..I am a recovering alcoholic-18 years now. Of course your Mom switched doctors. That's what we do when confronted with our disease. Trust me, you cannot expect her to magically stop drinking, start listening to her doctor(s), and start listening to you and your siblings. Doesn't happen that way.
As for the money--it's like has been stated. Depends on her age. My 95-year old Aunt is currently living with me. In 2006, after her husband had died and selling her home, had in the neighborhood of $250,000. No children. Just a cousin in the another city, myself and my parents (dad was her brother). She spent the money as if it were going to burn a whole in her pocket. She bought some nice presents but she wasted most of it on JUNK...CRAP...from catalogs. Anytime we said anything to her about keeping some money aside she flat out said it was none of our damn business. It was her money. By 2012, my Dad had passed, she had moved in with my Mom based on an agreement that she would keep money aside to take care of herself cause my Mom could not. She had begun having medical problems, had virtually no money left. So when my Mom passed, she moved to my cousins in Mobile. That was when we learned about money and Medicaid and nursing homes, etc.
Because she had wasted all that money, she could not qualify for Medicaid. But I don't think she cared if someone had to care for her because she was determined to stay "home" and not go to a facility. When my cousin's wife passed, the task of caring for my Aunt has shifted to me. I love her but anytime her spending from the past comes up she just says it doesn't matter cause she wants to stay home. If your Mom is an alcoholic, there is nothing you can do about her spending. If your Mom isn't an alcoholic, there is nothing you can do about her spending. And my guess is she's expecting that you and your siblings will take care of her so why save the money. Take the legal route and save yourself some future difficulties and heart ache. Good luck.

does she ever get sick?

Debdaughter has a strong point, does she ever get sick? This is another thing you can talk to your mom about, because someone will have to pay the bill. Healthcare is another good reason to lay aside some money. What I'm now thinking is that if your mom is on Medicaid, you might want to secretly alert Medicaid to this extra money so that they know about it. That way, they will be able to take the appropriate action and cut her off if she's above the limit. Another thing that was mentioned is that this money is the only money your mom has. You may want to remind her that this money won't last forever, and that you won't be paying for her expenses when the money runs out. This money pays for her housing, it won't last if she doesn't have the money to pay later. It takes money to stay in our homes, and without we'd be homeless because no one will keep us for free. Your mom will have to realize that there's just no free lunch in this world anymore because it's not like the good old days. Maybe in fantasy world, but not in reality.

I have a brother in law who is an alcoholic and doesn't seem to want to help himself. Over a year ago, he came home from a friend's house, drunk as a skunk, and was very belligerent to me. I didn't see him for about eight months. He now is in prison due to missing a court date. This is really taking a toll on my sister and the two children she has with him; the daughter doesn't seem to want to find a good job, and she knows she can't always play. The son, on the other hand, is treading the straight and narrow. I really feel sorry for my sister; she didn't ask for this. Any suggestions here?

Cak, I have been lucky when it comes to children. Both girls are on their own and paying their own bills. Even if they were living with me I'd just ask that they pay their own bills. They can have a bed here but they must support themselves. All ucan do is be there for her.

I don't think you can reason with an alcoholic. Tell her that spending the money will cause problems when she needs Medicaid and she can't rely on you to take care of her if she continues with the alchohol. If fairly young, you may not have to worry about old age, the alchohol will take her before that. I agree with not answering her calls. Tell her you will no longer tolerate her abuse. Tell her to call an ambulance that...she willbe paying for.

Hi everyone. Thank you for all the helpful responses.
My Mom is 86 years old. Very manipulative and yes sick all the time. She takes care of her bathing/ makeup, etc. But loves to drink wine and then she gets all mixed up with her meds. It's a mess.
Right now she is not talking to one out of 4 of my sisters because she is mad she can't get her way. She tells them she is going to come visits me at Christmas time but she has never said anything to me about it.
She lives in a dream world and spends her money on expensive clothes, household knick knacks, shoes, purses. All things she doesn't need because she's had things like this all her life. Her apartment is getting so full of stuff that she won't go thru so she probably has double or triple of the same sort of things.
I don't live in the same state but I have 4 sisters who are trying to help her and they keep me up to date. As far as I know for Christmas she will probably stay home and drink her wine all day.

Such a shame she misses out on life and family.

Please get your Mother to a Reformers Unanimous meeting held at churches internationally. We are not a 12-step program. We are a faith-based program. Your mother has a disease. It is called addiction. She will drink away all of her funds if she doesn't seek help. She CAN get well. Go to Reform U.com or tell me where you live and I can find an RU meeting near you.

When dealing with someone like that, keep in mind, they are not in their right mind. You have choices, though.
What you choose, depends on what you feel comfortable with.
Only you and your sibs can figure what works best for all of you sibs--what Mom thinks is kind of a moot point now; she's shown financial irresponsibility, and is elderly, frail, and will be in need of various helps, sooner or later. She may also have shown bad behaviors which could get in the way of placing her in a facility when needed.
With our family, Unfortunately, when I tried to rally my sibs to work together to take care of Mom's needs in a productive way, none of them were capable of working together. #2 said "just let her spend it, because she's lived on nothing for most of her life" [never mind she'd burned through at least 3 nice inheritances, then the proceeds from selling her house]. #'s 3 and 5 never picked up their registered letter to even read it. #3 chose to do what they called "an intervention", planning the whole long-distance removal of Mom from our place as a dash-and-grab fast trip, without telling me anything until they arrived. It was a mess, and extremely painful, to see our family being torn to bits, instigated by Mom--the others didn't even recognize that she was doing that, and they sure didn't recognize Mom triggered them to help do it.
Mom's fav. thing is shopping 2nd hand stores and hoarding--she feels safe sitting in piles of junk. IDK if sib #3 is allowing that to happen or not...that sib is really against hoarding..so gotta think maybe, that one might be keeping stuff from piling up.
Mom has not allowed ANY of us to have a DPOA. She hand-wrote a temporary one good for a year, once. But, she thinks she can handle stuff...except she cannot even manage her own bills, and hasn't been able to for many years.
IF any of us is going to get Guardianship, or a DPOA, sib #3 is likely it, since Mom went there. But it's not likely.
I almost got her to set up death arrangements...found an option she was good with--it donated her body to science research, and has a free cremation. But...now she's with Sib #3, all that could change, even though Mom signed the documents complete with notary.
She can still change her mind, because the documents weren't sent to that company in Portland, OR.
You need to get certain legal documents in order.
HOW you do that, is up to you.
==You can get a Doc to diagnose her with alcoholic dementia, or what ever is pertinent to your Mom's conditions.
==Get a DPOA, and get on with setting up arrangements.
==Controlling her spending is critical...by throwing away her money, it means Medicaid and Welfare will make her Wait, until they figure she would have spent down her money to take care of her needs...that can be a few years or more.
==Shut down credit cards, and get balances either rapid off, or understand family will have to pay taxes on the outstanding balances as "income" from her estate.
==Block her using a bank account or accessing her savings. Those funds need to go towards her upkeep and living expenses for housing, medicine, etc. maintenance.
==Set her up with a modest allowance....pocket change she can spend on things like getting her hair done, or going out to lunch.
Thing is, when an elder is being irresponsible, the kids become the defacto parents.
You love her enough to protect her from herself, to prevent her becoming a street-person and dying in a ditch.
If the person refuses to allow the legalities to be taken care of properly and in a timely way, sometimes it might be wise to force the issue. That usually always has to start with a Doc declaring the person incompetent to manage their affairs...then, with some help/guidance from Social Services, perhaps, it can get done.
Please don't allow her to break you and your siblings apart.
Some elders are [especially alcoholic and/or mentally ill ones] very good at that game; once broken, it's real hard to put the pieces back together, because trust is broken along with family ties.
She can't help herself, at this point in the game.
Sometimes it's necessary to take over that responsibility for them.
You all need to protect yourselves from her behaviors, and, for whatever you are doing for caregiving.
That usually requires keeping very good records of daily activities and verbal exchanges with Mom--a calendar or diary can be kept by all of you. This could help your cause.

Look all around this site; there are very good helps listed, questions answered.
We're all here for each other to help each other through the caregiving adventure. Many of us have been through similar to what you describe. Please keep up posted. You are not alone!

How do you reply?

credit card balances are considered income?

debdaughter, when credit cards are not paid off, the lender can send a 1099 to you showing the money as untaxed miscellaneous income. That creates problems with the IRS who insist you pay the tax.

Someone here mentioned managing bills. What I may suggest is setting up online bill pay for the person who has spending trouble and knowing what the limits are. What you do is start by putting the money into a bank account. What you may also want to do is to restrict her access to that account even if you have to move her money to a new account. This is where are you can set up online bill pay for all of her absolutely necessary expenses such as her housing and anything else that must be paid. You can also set up a trust for any leftover money, but give her a small allowance. Another option would be to become a representative payee. Even as a representative payee, you can still set up online bill pay for her bills to come out automatically each month, but set it up from your and I'm glad no one have access to that bank account in a manner that allows them to pull the money. I've heard nightmares about people who give access to their bank accounts, only for them to be ripped off. This is why you want to set up online bill pay for her from your end. That way, you know that the most important bills are definitely getting paid. If you've ever used online bill pay, it's a blessing if it's set up right. After setting up online bill pay for her necessary expenses, you can get a new ATM card and cancel her current one if she has one. Most bank accounts these days have one of those cards you can use at the checkout. The most important thing now is to see if you could speak with the bank manager on restricting your moms access to the account and explain why just like you did here. They should understand if your mom is losing competence to handle her own affairs. There may be some things that she may need to sign in order to give you that power of attorney. Just have to speak with your bank to see what they require. If required, you may very well have to go for guardianship to make everything easier.

Private: An alcoholic can't control her money-on line or otherwise. It's drank away.

but she has to be able to get it

Pam, I did learn about that; think that only applies if you actually just quit paying anything on it and they actually write it off, right? but didn't think it applied after they passed away, does it?

debdaughter, when I sent the death certificate for my daughter to the lender for her student loans, they immediately issued a 1099 for the principal and interest.