We found out tonight that not only is the caregiver living there but has moved in her niece full time. Plus now there’s a husband hanging out there, too. ok, and this is in a room with all their parents finances and their unlocked computer.
The parents are both legally competent but dh sees them slipping.
What would you do?
I’m out as far as the little girl is concerned. Yes she likes to play wait on ppl but I would never ask her for one as the law sees it as child labor. And I live a county over from Alva deer who can talk your ear off about how hard it is to evict, which may be the situation
Perhaps DH could have a talk with his parents about what they are getting out of it. Are they lonely? Is it the company they want? Are the dynamics 'interesting'? Do they feel good about ‘helping’? Why do these people need ‘help’?
It could be time for tours of some particularly nice Senior Living or even Assisted Living places, with lots of activities.
Ihave informed dh that if I walk in on this kid again “helping” I will just wait in the car. This is a 6 yo who is only there bc their aunt is.
Further, this cg allegedly has this whole house they own and are renting!
We are supposed to prepare for our own futures rather than rely on our children. I can see by the points brought up here that it would need careful arrangement. I'm not so sure that it would be a bad thing for wills to be changed eventually.
Adult children should expect us to use our resources for our care, right?
Let me try and ease your mind a bit here. Live-in caregivers do not get overtime pay because they're not paid by the hour. They are paid salary. Live-in's are like bartenders, waiter/waitresses, and hairdressers. The law does not require that they be paid even minimum wage because free room and board is considered part of their wages. It cannot replace actual wages but it is part.
I was a live-in caregiver 3 or 4 days a week (we alternated Sundays) in the state of California. This is how it works with live-ins.
Secondly, it really isn't your business or anyone else's who your in-laws have living in their house or how they planned for their old age care needs.
You say this caregiver was getting paid under-the-table for three years. Why should that bother you or anyone else? Everyone always says that a person's money and assets are supposed to be used for their care. Well, your in-laws are using their money and assets for their care and it's really none of your business how they go about it. Your in-laws probably like having people there with them and a kid around if she's well behaved. My edicated guess having been a caregiver for 25 years myself is that your in-laws are well cared for and happy with things as they are.
What did everyone think when the caregiver accepted next to nothing pay to do for two people 7 days a week? That they wouldld just joyfully work for slave wages 24/7 with no expectations?
Caregivers don't work like that. People like to think that we'll work 24/7 out of the kindness of out hearts for pennies on the dollar. We get compensated in other ways. I know this.
As for your MIL "latching" onto the 37 year old who is the child of a former girlfriend of her son and not his.
I "latched" onto a child almost 20 years ago when I started dating his father who then became my second husband. It is not for you to judge or give permission for who can love who or what relationships people can form with other people outside of families.
Love is love and clearly your MIL loved a child that wasn't a relative of hers. So what. So do I.
Maybe it's better idea if you waited at home instead of in the car if the little 6 year-old is "helping" if it upsets you so much. If your in-laws don't have a problem with it, you certainly shouldn't.
Did you find the situation to be above board when your in-laws found a caregiver and paid her next to nothing in cash under-the-table for the last three years? Very unprofessional. Then again in-home caregivers are not considered professionals. They don't get professional pay from the homecare companies that employ them, or professional benefits, or even the slightest respect that an employer will show a professional person. I know how it is because I worked for care agencies. I also worked privately.
My guess is you, your husband, and no one else who may potentially inherit from your in-laws at some point had any problem with this caregiver arrangement before you saw family showing up there. It was just fine when she was working for slave wages under-the-table taking care of your in-laws 24/7. No scheduled days off, no paid sick time, no vacation time, no insurance, and no social security or Medicare being taken out of her pay.
This surely arrangement suited everyone nicely when it seemed like the caregiver's only purpose and joy in life was serving your in-laws 24/7 for a bed to sleep in, three meals a day (that I'm sure she prepares) and next to nothing pay.
Well, your in-laws took a shine to her and her family. That's because they treat these old people well. So they want to treat them well in return.
I've worked for many families over the years. Where so many make a mistake is they pay plenty of attention to the senior's finances, but practically none to the senior themselves.
This is not the same as ignoring an abusive senior cutting them out of your life for the sake of one's own mental health. No person who refuses to become a caregiver to a needy senior will ever get a moment of judgment from me.
Saying no to becoming a family caregiver is not wrong.
So hired help is sent in. They're nice to these lonely old people. They pay attention to them and they form bonds.
I have myself accepted very expensive gifts and even vacations from care clients of mine over the years. If they were still with it mentally and managing their own affairs, it was not for me to ensure the safety their family's furture inheritance like a dragon guarding a treasure hoard. It's the senior's money and they can spend it how they want.
I had a private client who sent myself and my first husband on luxury cruise for ten days. My MIL looked after him while we were gone. His out-of-town family were livid when they found out. They saw him all of maybe twice a year. We were like his family. He came to holidays and family events. If not for us he would have just been alone in his house with no one.
If your in-laws are happy and being decently looked after, leave well enough alone.
A number of years ago, my 2 SILs (husband's sister, husband's brother's widow) "rescued" an acquaintance of theirs one summer. They moved this woman and 5 of her 6 various aged children in with them and then helped her find a house (actually, husband's brother's widow BOUGHT them a house, but that's a whole other saga). This was the kind of woman that never had enough for rent, food, transportation, etc., but always seemed to be able to come up with enough money to fly down to Disney in FL to "visit" her eldest daughter. And of course, go to the parks while she was there!
Of course, this sort of financial arrangement wasn't sustainable for my SILs' in the long term, and eventually they began asking this woman to start kicking in for things. The more they asked for, the chillier the "friendship" became, until eventually, the bloom was off the rose, she got a better living arrangement offer from one of her sister's and moved away without even a "thanks for the memories." I was actually surprised she didn't sneak off in the middle of the night, TBH.
Anyway, in answer to your question what did I do? Well, I did exactly nothing. They never asked for my opinion (although I'm sure they knew what it was) and I never offered one. While I found it infuriating to see my SILs' being so blatantly taken advantage of, they never asked me to help finance this woman and it was their money to do with as they wished. They also never asked us to make up any shortfall they were personally having due to financing this leech. And in all honesty, there wasn't anything to be accomplished by chastising them other than risking my relationship with them, which I wasn't willing to do.
If your in-laws feel the need to "rescue" this woman - and some people are drawn to that kind of role - then I'm afraid you can't really do anything other than perhaps ***gently*** express your concerns over the situation. It sucks, but sometimes that's where we find ourselves in life.
I can’t play around with the kid playing at caregiving, because the law sees that as child labor. And if or when the kid falls down the stairs that’s potentially even a bigger lawsuit than if the cg herself fell. Oh, btw, the cg just reported a fall recently, so there’s that.
My grief counselor told me unprompted how often he sees old people sign away everything to their caregiver. It’s a terrible thing for a caregiver to gaslight an old person into believing.
Trust your gut instincts. Speak to your husband about how you feel. I certainly hope that he is keeping his eyes open.
I recently had lunch with a good friend. I inquired about her situation regarding her godmother’s illness and rather sudden death.
Her godmother told her that she was leaving everything to her. She had no children of her own and considered my friend as her own child.
Somehow her godmother’s caregivers got her to sign documents and they were able to obtain everything that she owned. I mean everything, her condo, her car, her jewelry, etc.
It’s horrible that her godmother’s last wishes weren’t fulfilled. She was sick and thought that she was being well cared for but in reality she was deceived and taken advantage of.
There are great caregivers and horrible caregivers. It’s just like all other professions in life that have good and bad workers.
My friend is devastated about what occurred.
Best wishes, Peggy.
Burnt seems to think it’s ok as she came cheap. Well no, it’s more like this is how they scam sweet old people by pretending to be their friend.
As you say, they are competent. So this is not your choice.
If they insist upon this, then ask them why? What are their fears if they change caregivers?
I don't know if these are caregivers that are hired or family? Important distinction, that.
As to important information, if that is publicly open to access and passwords, yes, they are in some danger here, esp. if they are, as hubby suspects, failing. Can hubby check with them monthly on their assets, accounts?
Really, PeggySue, you are here for sooooo long on Forum, and you are reading and GIVING advice. I think all that is KNOWN in the world that can be done about this, you already know. I just hope it's enough to protect them. This is worrisome indeed, but it is on your hubby to worry about it, because doing a dance around it daily is going to mess with your OWN LIVES. I sure hope things go OK.
We are doing a brainstorming session at brothers on Thursday. So wants me to write down all the red flags that there are. Okey-dokey.
1. the kid is in first or second grade. If this caregiver has enrolled her in their district, the caregiver, this kid, her lover have tenants rights regardless of if the cg does her duties or not.
1a. It’s not cute that the child is helping bring tea. I’m an instant walkout in that situation as it is child labor and as such, inappropriate. Anyone with a real job knows that they don’t inflict their family on their work.
1b. The cg is saying this child is a legal adoptee and that she’s actually married but we never heard of these cats until maybe this past year
2. The unlocked computer and all their papers are in the same room with supposed husband, who “so quietly” sits there.
3. Young men in the caregivers extended family are gang involved.
All paperwork and personal effects in that room need to be removed. Monitoring of bank accounts, etc needs to be done going forward. They could very well commit identity theft or fraud with the information they have right now.
Then they need to have a talk with the caregiver and tell her what was told to the parents. She will need to stop bringing her child over, the husband and whomever else, during working hours. Failure to do so will result in termination.
The caregiver and her family need to get out of the parents house. The caregiver at this point needs to be let go. Does either brother have a POA? Something they can enforce regarding this situation?
I fear retaliation by the care giver and her family on your MIL and FIL. Especially with mentioned gang connections. A home invasion situation is not out of the realm of possibility here, especially after the men have the conversation with the caregiver about what is going to happen here. MIL and FIL are in grave danger from this family, they don't even realize it.
Ideally SIL should STOP caregiving for MIL and FIL so that they have to go into an assisted living facility. This is on the brother and his wife too because they are riding their own gravy train on the perceived care taking of mom and dad and getting paid handsomely for it.
Fil needs incontinence care and thinks cg is the only one that can help. But that’s not true.
The computer can be set up to have a power on password. Or if in-laws want the caregivers to have access to it, someone with basic knowledge can set it up to have a guest account they could sign into.
I would have DH encourage in-laws to lock up all sensitive documents and valuables. You might want to get a nanny cam, but that could be too invasive if in-laws are competent. I'm just passing on suggestions that were made to me when I got in home caregivers for my mom.
Edit: I did not see the most recent post about gang connections and other serious issues. I take back my suggestion to let them use computer (or even continue living there).
https://www.justice.gov/elderjustice/prosecutors/statutes
1. The child staying there poses enormous risk. If cg uses their address to get her into a better district then they are tenants. She wouldn’t have to even do his diaper being that she’s moved in her whole alleged fam rent free Plus all we know maybe this aunt is keeping the kid from the rest of the family involuntarily.
2. The husband will not be coming back after he leaves for his own country. She gets paid a salary of over 120k, and can surely afford a super8.
Bottom line, you don’t bring family into work as everyone who has worked a real job knows.
Suppose their child becomes ill, then they will have to tend to their child instead of their client. Kids get sick or have accidents while playing at the drop of a hat.
It doesn’t make any sense to bring a child to work. It’s not fair to anyone involved. A child shouldn’t be in this environment. They need adult supervision.
You’re right, who else is able to bring their child to work? This is what daycare is for. If a daycare isn’t convenient for the hours needed, then hire a babysitter.
The in laws are going to talk to cg about how hubby can’t stay, but mil doesn’t get the significance of this kid being there. If this is or is going to be a legal adoption the kid will have the right to live and school based on the address. And if the child lives there and gets hurt, that’s a whole not her liability.
Plus, this caregiver is obese, diabetic and prone to falls herself. She doesn’t have insurance but has paid for things herself. Ok, well what happens when she tears her acl or breaks an ankle? They will have to pay for an aide for her and them on behalf of the kid being registered in school there.
So with the structure of the meeting, I think we all should do like Marie’s talking pillow in breaking bad. Where we all have our say without interruption.
I would say to them that they needn’t give control away.
I will tell the in laws on Saturday that we want them to be in control, and the more they give to their caregiver, the less they will have.
First, there will be less control if the child lives there. If a legal adoption happens or has happened, a child is supposed to live with their custodial parent. You can’t stop them from thus sending that kid to your district. After which the caregiver controls when or if she moves out, regardless of performance.
Second, signaling that an employee is irreplaceable or family gives away your control. This person is neither but has taken it to the point of moving in visiting husband in without technically asking. My dh is like fine I’ll set my alarm for 4 am and go diaper dad myself for free, he’s so pissed.
We don’t actually know the custodial situation of the girl, including how opposing family members might see it, because we are not family unlike this cg actual relatives whose gang murdered a guy three doors up in a shooting. Then they all did another drive by,
And shame on you for even intimating that this family is distant. We are all within a 2 mile radius and the bio family has always been close. Sil still works for them, but not overnight. It’s not like your aids patient abandoned for being gay, ok?
If there is a legal adoption than my dh parents will lose control of their house for as long as it takes a court to order out a 6 yo no matter whether cg even changes a diaper. Which will take years to do.
If there isn’t, well, we aren’t family unlike the caregivers family and as such wouldn’t know of any dissenting opinions, but we do know her bio family’s gang did a murder and drive by. Happened three houses up.
The inlaws have always been a mess.
Back away. Let SIL handle it or not. They are competent and of age. Stay away from them. If hubby wants to handle it let him, but have him tell a counselor his woes, not you.
You can't do anything about any of this. This is poor decision making at its screaming worst.
Back away from it and get on with a quality of life.
You don't owe anyone here explanations of how crazy this is; pretty much we are ongoing witnesses.
These situations tend to spill over and affect others in the family.
It’s difficult to deal with because the children naturally want to protect their parents.
It’s great when hiring a private caregiver works out but your posting shows just how crazy it can get when it doesn’t work out well. At least with an agency you have some sort of protection against this sort of thing.
Of course, people can still get crappy service from an agency too.
There’s no guarantee no matter which way you go.
There are wonderful caregivers who do an amazing job and sadly like in the case of your in-laws who found themselves with an unprofessional and chaotic environment.
I hope they are able to resolve this issue as quickly as possible.
And then he said it sounded to him like elder abuse anyway.
My dh grandma lived in a ccrc and had an additional aide for 12 hours a day. Did anyone know the ins and outs of this persons family, no. It wasn’t our business as we were not involved.
This person is making almost 123k a year, needs. And btw she says she has work during when she isn’t working for them. The cg and supposed husband want to adopt this kid so bad, with 123k alone you can put up these two. But instead they’re heating how the niece is so dirt poor and the husband just raked up enough to come see his wife who’s sacrificed three years to work for them. And how they’re petrified she’ll quit if they don’t capitulate to what is clearly bs.
Thanks for acknowledging my and dh’s pain. It means a lot.
Alva,
im gonna be involved on Saturday if only to know that I told them what the risks are regarding tenancy of this kid. If it’s going to be a legal adoption then you lose control of your house. Fact.
I think I’ll just ask them if they consider the Caregiver as family. Yes or no with no in between.Obviously the fact that we will be there discussing her means there’s a difference between family and not.
Cg told them she’s adopting, and adopted kids stay under the roof of their parents and go to school in the district where they sleep. If it gets to lawyers, it’ll be evil old rich white ppl casting out oppressed minorities if they ever do object as they knew about the situation beforehand and we can’t take it out on the child,children first, etc.
As well as the gang affiliated young men in caregivers family.
I met a person that does nothing but move these types of people out of their living situations. Not a pretty job but, with our asinine laws he is kept as busy as he wants to be. It is disgusting how low people will go and then the honest family is reduced to using alternative means to protect themselves. Elder abuse is as low as it gets, next to child abuse. Sounds like this peach your in-laws have is playing with both, which means she and her leeches are fair game. Just saying, fire with fire is very effective.
These people don’t sound like they have anyone’s best interests at heart other than their own.
The thing that stands out in my mind is the gang affiliation. I would be terrified.
Of course we are terrified.
7
I don’t remember if you said anything about your in-laws having a will. Do they?
Even if they do have a will, people who are manipulative are sometimes able to convince others to change their wills.
For me, safety is the number one priority, but you don’t want these people to inherit something that they don’t deserve or wasn’t ever intended to be theirs.
There’s always going to be exceptions in certain cases where the normal standards aren’t applied.
I respect the decision for people to leave money or property to whoever they choose when it is warranted. I don’t respect those who swindle people out of their belongings.
I know of a man who married his caregiver so that she would inherit his estate.
She happened to be an amazing caregiver. His family were not a part of his life in any way so he left everything to her.
He didn’t expect anything from her. They had separate bedrooms. He was grateful for her care and he simply wanted to show his appreciation.
She had a fight on her hands with his family when he died but she won. She didn’t coerce him. She didn’t have a child living with her. She was a citizen and so on. She wasn’t in a gang or had any other questionable things in her life. It was all on the up and up.
The situation with your in-laws has red flags all over the place. Very disturbing!
One of my good friends recently went through a horrible experience. Her godmother intended to leave everything to her. She was very close to her godmother. The caregivers somehow ended up getting her godmother to change her will and they got the condo, furniture, car, jewelry, etc.
My friend was devastated that her godmother’s initial wishes were not fulfilled.
The material things weren’t important to my friend. She would have appreciated having them but she was more devastated knowing that her godmother was bamboozled out of them by these two extremely deceiving women. Her godmother had no children and looked at my friend as her own child.
If legal documents are signed by your in-laws, you’re going to have a hell of a time trying to reverse the situation. That’s if it is even possible to reverse.
People who con others for a living are extremely wise and know how to play the game. They can easily take advantage of others.
What a mess! So sad for all involved. How is your husband dealing with this situation? He must be so upset. If he’s upset, it transfers to you, because you love him.
Then he told them what’s going on with his parents. The convo only then got more animated about how absolutely unprofessional this is. To them, this is unbelievably unethical.
I told dh that on Saturday I’ll just say that an adopted kid would be presumed to sleep under the same roof and go to the district in which they sleep.
I
And a 1099. This is used for interest, sub contractors, anything that needs taxes paid but the money is not from a payroll check that requires a W2. An aide is not considered self-employed per IRS. The employer is to deduct payroll taxes from the aides salary and send to the appropriate agency. If issuing a 1099 the info is sent to the IRS. So if ur in-laws are not sending the 1099 info to IRS, aide is probably not paying taxes. (Someone did mention on the forum that there is another use for a 1099)
This is a sticky situation and I can see why your concerned. For one, the mistakes ur in-laws make now can effect you and DH somewhere down line line. Medicaid for instance may want to know why the large amts of money are being taken out of their bank acct weekly. If paying in cash, there is no paper trail. But for now, really not much u can do because in-laws are competent.