NeedHelpWithMom Asked February 2019
My mother does not have a living will. I have medical power of attorney for her. How important is a living will?
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Do I need an elder attorney for a living will? What is involved in taking care of this? I’m thinking I should take care of this to have peace of mind. My mom has expressed her wishes to me but I feel it should be put in writing.
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I don't think you need a lawyer for this. There is probably a form on the internet for your state. In the end tough, a DNR has to be in place and signed off by a doctor. Your doctor should have the form if you want to have this in her file. A copy should be given to ambulance personnel and hospitals and facilities.
I understand your wish for peace of mind, of course. Decisions of the kind we're talking about are *hard* and often emotionally painful. Resuscitate or not, feeding tube or not, surgery or not - they're not choices to be wished on anyone, and wouldn't it be so much easier if you had a set of instructions to follow, signed and witnessed and ready to hand.
But. There are two serious problems with being too specific. The first is that we have no idea what is going to happen, and the clinical judgements to be made take a very complex range of factors into account; and the second problem is that how you feel when you are comparatively fit and well and writing your directive may be radically different from how you feel when you are sick and frightened and vulnerable.
Although certainty would be nice to have, there is bound to be a trade-off between certainty and freedom to act. Your mother has outlined her feelings to you, and now she is content to trust your judgement. So should you.
Exactly! These are the things I am concerned about. Thanks for your feedback. Appreciate your input.
Also there is a document called a P.O.L.S.T. this is better than a DNR as it is very specific as to what medical treatment you want or don't want and the duration of a treatment if you elect one.
This takes care of a lot of things but if there is an "estate" property, a bit of money, and or other items that are of actual value it might be better to have a Will done if there are relatives, family that want "their fair share" Or at least have her put it in writing and sign it, but have her do so with other than family members present.
In fact, I had the same Attorney do all the paperwork for myself as one never knows what will happen in the future.
When you are in an emergency it is hard to feel good about decisions that do not prolong life, I personally believe it is all based on the prognosis, will I ever be able to function in a reasonable awareness with my environment, will my life be prolonged for me to die where I lay, only months down the road.
My dad was depressed and near death, the hospitalist talked to him in private and alone, came out and said he requested a DNR. When in reality he wanted full code, which means keep me alive at all costs and measures. I had no POA or anything, I couldn't change that on his chart. (Same hospitalist that said he had dementia but is willing to listen to him, just wrong)
I hope you find a good solution that gives you peace of mind at a reasonable price.
Hugs, I know these are hard conversations and decisions.
If you and your mother are too worn out or run out of time to actually carry out these documents, something that might help YOU is to calmly discuss circumstances with her and want she might want. Write them down. First, this is a good start for the formal paperwork she should have, and second, YOU know what she wants and can help carry it out with a clear conscience if the paperwork hasn't yet been finalized.
Lastly, you must take care of you! I understand putting your mother first, but you matter too. Plus, you can't care for your mom if you're ill or broken. {hugs}
I am always concerned with my mother’s desires being fulfilled, especially the most important issues.
Go receive expert advice from an elder lawyer. It was the best thing I ever did!
All the best!
Thanks, I can see where that is money well spent because it brings peace of mind.
She has said to me if she would get cancer that she wouldn’t do chemo or radiation. She has said she does not want to be kept alive with a breathing machine or feeding tube, DNR, things of that nature.
Guardianship is recognize by all states, and hospitals. Continue with her being independence as she will want to be, but it's easier to make the serious decisions with guardianship, a legal document that all professionals have to abide. There will never be any type of challenge of your decision for your mom by social workers, care management, hospitals, doctors, banks, and attorneys once you have guardianship.
A will can hide assets as well, MI has a 5 year rule. Also, difficult for family members to contest the will and can be written up, heirs cannot contest if they do they are out of any of moms things.
- a POA who has experience a mom's trust and her wishes- BUT needed the legal documents to execute the wishes ...
Great post! Loved what you had to say. Also, my mom can barely hear and she always asks me to tell her what others have said so I started thinking that her specific desires should be in writing. Know what I mean? For peace of mind for her and me.
Many banks will not honor a POA. They want a guardianship. They are harder to get, more expensive and adjudicated through the court system. It's very frustrating.
Guardianship is intended to protect a person that is unable to protect themselves. That is not your case at all. The only thing it would accomplish for you is more work, as a guardian you have to provide an accounting of moms money to the courts.
You can get a witness or two to sit in on a conversation with mom and you, get her to explain that she doesn't want heroic measures taken to artificially prolong her life. Type it up or hand write it, have mom and witnesses sign. You now have a legal document. You should add to the signature that she is of sound mind and understands the consequences of such a decision and she is not being influenced or under duress to create this document.
It is simple, next time she sees her PCP, give them a copy, they might even have a form they can attached attesting to her ability to execute such a document. God forbid you ever need it, have the doctors office send their copy as well as showing your own.
My living will also states that my agent has the right to bring battery charges against a doctor that refuses to honor my wishes or turn my care over to a doctor that will. That's how brutal all these heroic measures are to a body.
If you decide not to have an attorney assist you, please don't go the guardianship route. She would be destroyed and you probably wouldn't get guardianship because she is in such good mental condition.
Giving caretakers money, buying them furniture.
Refusal to go to hospital after falling and hitting head while on Plavix and needs a scan for internal bleed
Moms refusal of a caretaker and telling them to go home
Refusal to take medication
Refusal to take sponge bath or shower
Refusal to go to hospital after falling and hitting head while on Plavix
Calling police while in rehab unit
Eating while lying down- choking hazard
Refusal to wash post bathroom visit
Convincing Doctor a higher dose of medication
The list can go on and on...
Sure my mom was competent…but judgement way off-
Police-,EMT’s, & Social Workers only honored guardianship not the POA
I would of rather been guardianship and have the extra work reporting out -and being accountable for mom-- Even other people knew she was "off" but deemed competent.
Yes, extreme examples but it happen to me
You have already got medical power work on will and get a second or third a pinion
A living will may not be required if you have a trust (to avoid all probate). You also require to be her POA as well as MPOA (which you are).
It all depends on what state regulations are....
Don't wait. If at some point, she requires Medicaid, then the way would be paved.
All the best!!