I’m 50 years old but the youngest of 4 sisters. I’ve been taking care of our 82 yr old mother who has dementia/Altzheimers & Parkinson’s, virtually on my own for the last 7 1/2 years. In Oct 2017 I finally asked for help & hired a caregiver to work 3-4 days per week @ $150/day, a very reasonable rate for caregivers. I told my sisters I could no longer work & receieve no salary & that it would be only fair to receive the same monetary rate as the other part time caregiver. My sisters then said I should start paying a portion of the monthly bills to cover household expenses for me & my son who are currently living in the home (the same home that is left to me upon her entering a nursing home). At present time, me & my 20 yr old son are paying 75% of the monthly household bills. Expenses for her supplies & money to pay myself & the other caregiver exceeds what she receives monthly from retirement & social security money. Here’s the problem: Miraculously I’ve reconnected with a high school boyfriend & we want him to move in about 6 mos into the home to help & then get married shortly thereafter. I feel if he, my son & myself are taking care of 100% of the household bills plus covering additional cost for groceries, we meet our financial obligation in the situation. My sisters feel that a separate fee for rent should be charged to my future husband so that he doesn’t live here for “free”. They want that extra money from him to go toward paying for her additional monthly supplies and/or caregiver expenses (half of which is paid to me!) I on the other hand think that all 4 sisters should contribute to paying for her monthly supplies. We wouldn’t mind paying a portion of her monthly supplies, if ALL 4 sisters contribute equally. Currently none of the other 3 sisters pay $0 money or time for our mother. Essentially they want to use as little as possible of her retirement fund, which is meant to go toward her care. They’re concerned if one day each of them will have to contribute some of their own money if/when the money runs out. Currently we have over $300,000 left in her retirement fund. Since myself, my future husband & my son are covering all the monthly household bills we’ve reduced taking $5,000/month from her retirement fund to $3,000/month. Who’s right? I’d like an unbiased opinion.
2. I completely agree that it sucks that you put in those years of unpaid care unappreciated. The trouble is: so seeing that you began to pay yourself a handsome (ha-ha!) $6.25 an hour for caregiving from March just gone: on whose authority did you do that? Who is making this and similar decisions about what services your mother needs, who provides them, and how they're paid for?
Even if the caregiver you are employing is known to you as a friend, your paying her has all kinds of implications including employer's liability for such things as insurance and taxes. Agreeing not to bother about these things is a sure route to a hideous mess later on, because they are not optional, they are legally mandated. You must cover your behind. I'm sure she's lovely, I'm sure you'll be friends forever. But if you think it's risk-free then you are living in a dream world with no access to the media.
3. Deep sigh. You, your husband and your son should not be paying ALL of the household bills. Your mother should be paying her fair share of the household bills. This is why you need to write it all down and add it all up. If the household comprises four adults, say, and the annual utilities bill 2017-18 came to $xxxx; then your mother's fair share of the utilities bill is $xxxx/4. Stop anticipating your sisters' reaction, stop trying to spin or prejudge the decisions - get the numbers straight. Then you will all know exactly what you're dealing with.
I am very glad that you are thinking in terms of a professional needs assessment. I'm a little less so that you mention a social services "company". Is this a commercial organisation? What's wrong with asking your Area Agency on Aging?
Look. Supposing you did add up, and when you looked at the numbers, all personal feelings aside, it made no financial or practical sense for you to continue to provide your mother with 24/7 care. Don't hang in there purely so that you don't have to back down. And keep it under review. What is manageable now may not be in six months' time.
Keep coming back to let us know how you're getting on.
If the house is an asset of my mother's to use to go toward the expenses at a nursing home, then so be it. I just don't want to be blindsided, should my sisters go behind my back & place her in a NH for whatever reasons or intensions they may have.
I have contacted a social service company for the elderly to come in, make an assessment & connect me with legal advice & what is currently in the will.
I have shown my sisters the amount of money it will take to put her in a NH where she'll need full service care versus keeping her here in the home. If my family (me, my husband & son) pays for all of the household bills including 80% of the groceries, her cost will reduce to 1/3 of what it takes to pay for a NH.
I am lucky to have found someone so willing & helpful to get me through this. He is a wonderful man who adores me & does anything he can to help both me & my mom. Not many men are out there like that, so I won't jeopardize our relationship!
It just doesn't seem fair that I've had to sacrifice all these years while my sisters virtually did nothing just so they can have a portion of her inheritance in the end...including the house. It's hard to be generous when all 4 sisters & their husbands make 6 figures and all have homes, when I'm left with no savings, no retirement & no home.
It seriously concerns me, the amount of money you are withdrawing to pay for "two part-time caregivers (myself included)." Whose agreement did you have to your being paid for the care you provide for your mother? How much have you already "paid" yourself? You just can't make this kind of decision unilaterally, you know.
You're going about it all in such a random way. "We're paying this, so it's only fair that she or they pay that, plus there's such and such, plus if x then y..."
WRITE IT ALL DOWN. Add up. Then you can make a rational assessment of who should be contributing what to which expenses; AND you can make a rational comparison of the costs and savings, benefits and drawbacks of keeping your mother in her home or finding her a carefully-chosen facility.
When it comes to the house...
Please don't think I don't feel for you. I was the youngest child caregiver and the only one without a secure property, too, I know exactly how it feels.
But the fact is. If your father was that concerned about your having certainty then he should have left you the house in his will and given your mother a life interest in it. But he didn't. The house is your mother's property, and its value is part of her assets. It's better to face this squarely than to cross your fingers that it won't become an issue.
I can think of one extremely good reason why your sisters might prefer your mother to go to an NH: tidiness. That way they could get her assets liquidated and have her tucked up safe and sound. They would have certainty and clarity about how much money she has and what regulated, professional care she is provided with. No concerns about the impact of a new son in law, or the needs of grandchildren, or the administrative skills of an overburdened sibling.
I think you should give it more careful, open-minded thought too. Because if all goes well and you are happily married by the end of the year... the lovely fiancé who is so sweet to your mother will have become a husband who is living with an elderly MIL with dementia and a wife in constant conflict with her well-organised older siblings. You should look around the forum at the experiences of male caregivers in similar situations.
I also need legal advice & how the will is currently set up. I believe the house goes directly to me upon her passing, but I can't tell what happens if she goes into a NH. This was my father's wishes before he died. When we drew up the will/family trust a few months after his passing in January, 2011 my sister's were all on board with that. They all have 6-figure incomes & homes. I'm the only one who doesn't own a home, so my dad wanted to see that my son & I had one to live in.
My concern now is that my sister's are using this situation to either leverage & justify putting her in a NH so we can liquidate the house to use it to pay for a NH; Or they'd like to send her to a NH to liquidate the house before she passes so they can split the house & I don't inherit it by myself. I know this may sound as if I'm overly concerned about the home, but I just don't want to have to move suddenly if all 3 sisters go behind my back & decide together to send her to a NH without my consent. I’m also somewhat suspicious my sister's know the average time spent in a NH is 2 years, so that by putting her in one now, ensures there will be money left over to split. As terrible as that sounds, I can't understand why they’d want to see her go to a NH rather than me taking care of her here at home.
2 years after my Dad passed, I provided the family attorney with a letter from her doctor stating she is only able to remain in the home if I'm living with her, due to her mental capacity.
Has anyone dealt with this situation & provided a doctor's note to the family attorney stating this & what this means?
Thanks again for everyone's support!! It's really nice to communicate with people who know the difficulties with this situation!
My unbiased opinion (I have nothing to gain either way) is that this suggestion is nuts.
Your mother has $300,000 in her retirement fund, and sisters are arguing about who should pay what portion of her expenses?
Mother has plenty of money, and her children need to chip in to buy laundry detergent? What is wrong with this picture? (The correct answer is "everything.")
If Mother's money is being saved for a rainy day, look out the window. It is pouring rain!
"They’re concerned if one day each of them will have to contribute some of their own money if/when the money runs out."
No, I don't believe that can be their reason. If Mother's $300,000 runs out, she applies for Medicaid, like other elders whose medical needs run through all their funds.
I know that there are a lot of emotional factors to consider. But that aside, the objectively reasonable solution is for you, Sweetie, and Son to find another place to live. Then the POA can see to it Mother's needs are met.
Mother's money is for Mother's care. Why is it so difficult for your family to grasp that concept?
When my mom moved into my house she stated she wanted to contribute to the household expenses, and I let her from her monthly SS. What ever's left over from her $500 check after her needs are met she contributes, never over $300 and often less than $100. We have a care giver agreement that was witnessed by a notary and her financial POA, my brother. At this time I pay for in home housekeeper/care givers when I am in the office from my own funds (not sure Mom really needs someone here but I don't want to leave her alone all day so its for my peace of mind). If I wasn't working and we needed care giving help because I really couldn't leave her alone, that will be paid for from her funds. My POA brother and I agree that our parents' resources should be used for their care. If there's anything left over when all their needs are met, _then_ we will have something to split. But there are always critics; my non-POA brother says I'm "stealing" from Mom when I use her money to purchase groceries. Mom likes it when I tell her she paid for the latest grocery run.
I'd start by contacting Area Agency on Aging, and asking if there are low-cost legal advisers for seniors in the area. But if you need to see a Elder Law attorney for $500/hour, so be it. It will be mother's money well spent.
Get to en eldercare attorney this week for a caregiving agreement that pays you at least the cost of the most expensive AL in your area.
And the caregiver wants to be fair. This virtue has sunk many people to the level of indentured servitude. She’s a good person and they’ll just overlook things like that budget to try to keep everyone amicable.
My daughter is like this and the whole world victimizes her, and she ignores anything I try to talk to her about. I’m very discouraged with my daughter. I’m on the outs with my father who is giving her nothing for her help with my mom (in AL) and things like doing his laundry and cooking (she has a household but I cannot see it last much longer with no income).
This last year has destroyed my family. I may as well find humor anywhere I can.
Here, you will get back up, relief of stress, advice.
BUT you will get HONEST advice and it may go against what you have ALREADY DECIDED TO DO.
It will be your choice to accept or ignore it. You seems to be doing the later?
Saying that, this is a fantastic place to air your problems and ask for help.
I am sure someone will think the same way you do.
Good luck
Get your 'care giving, monetary agreements etc, put into a LEGAL document - done by a legal person.
The ‘deal’ that they’ve worked out is so convoluted I just read to a point but it’s not fair and pushes everything on you. Do you have that house ownership legally set up? A legal paper? And now they are trying to bleed your fiancé?!
I know so many who take on more than they can handle because some monster relatives are trying to NOT spend money earmarked for the parents care. My father is one. They’ll never pay you or help in any way. They are vultures just waiting...
How about doing what is best for mom? Place her. $300,000 ought to cover any need she may have and you visit her regularly?
Remember this—THEY WILL USE YOUR VIRTUES AGAINST YOU! Over and over and over. Money grubbing leeches.
Sorry. I can’t answer this unbiasedly!
Caregivers may be a little biased in your favor, and wanting to look out for your Mom's welfare too, so you came to the right place. I feel if your siblings don't help, won't contribute financially, should you be taking them seriously? Stay here with us, there will be more ideas that may lead to a solution. I am at a loss as to how to get siblings on board to listen and pay their share.
Kudos to you for wanting to have your Mother's needs met at her home. Not everyone is able to provide that level of care.
If her level of care is a SNF, research how much mom’s monthly fee would be and again, present it to your sisters.
Then, present the siblings the monthly charges for the aide you currently use.
This may open their eyes to the exorbitant amount of money it takes to care for a Senior.
Do you pay rent? If not and the care you provide was determined by your sibs and you that living there without paying rent is a part of your compensation, take that sum (rent money) & convert it to what the aide’s hourly rate is. Make your sisters aware of this.
I will bet that your rent amount only covers 1-1/2 what the agency fee is. Therefore you deserve more compensation and that money should come from your mother’s savings, not from you & your son.
I think it’s unfair that you pay as much as you do now.
Your sisters need to realize that by you taking care of mom and living with her is actually saving your mother’s assets, not squandering them. The sibs have no clue of the expense. This I mention as they currently don’t contribute one cent to any of your mother’s care. Tsk tsk!
Will the house be yours when your mom passes? Maybe the sisters are jealous or resent this?
Is the home paid for, meaning mortgage free?
Your son should be contributing something - be it rent or utilities - as he needs to learn that living has costs. You say he is already so that’s settled.
As far a the old high school ex, have you been actually dating face to face or is it all online?
IMO the ex BF needs to court you in person prior to any arrangements being made for him to move in. And if he does, then yes, he needs to contribute something to the household whether it be rent, utilities or food.
What’s he been doing all those years since High School? I ask because my red flag would be up if he can leave his old life behind so easily, could he be looking for an easy ride by living with you?
I am not trying to put a monkey wrench in your plans and hope you won’t take it the wrong way, but I am a realist. Being on FB I’ve superficially reconnected with many of my old classmates & it’s interesting to see what they have or haven’t done with their lives.
Move slowly with this ex of yours. Has he visited you? Did he propose and “put a ring on it”?
Figure out the financial issues with your family before the ex moves in.
I think you are paying way too much for your mom’s day to day expenses. You need to give your siblings a realistic amount that your mother would have to pay if she were in AL or NH.
Spend some of that $300k on your mother’s needs now. The aide’s fee should be paid by your mother’s resources, not your own money.
And yes you are preserving your sister’s inheritance by providing care to your mother and paying for it out of your own pocket. The costs to just live these days are high - utilities, gas, house upkeep.
Keep receipts, etc in a file just in case you need for her to apply for Medicaid down the road.
I suggest speaking to an Elder Care Attorney too- perhaps draw up a Cargiver’s Contract of some sort. Start protecting yourself in case your relationship with your siblings takes a dive.
As for the ex BF, take it slow and get to know his journey over the last decades. What’s his career? Any marriages or children?
Again, if your relationship with him has been online only or even if you’ve been dating in person only for a few months, take your time. The important thing is that you found each other again and are together. What if he relocated, moves in, and you find he isn’t quite the knight in shining armor he presented himself to be? You really don’t know a person unless you live with them. I wonder if he has a Plan B just in case you two don’t work out. Get the care compensation issue resolved before he moves in.
I am happy you found love again! In order for your relationship to grow, you need to have all these issues with your siblings under control. Get rid of that drama so you can focus on nurturing your new relationship. You need to have time to devote to him and rediscovering each other. All these unresolved issues with your mother and sisters will no doubt impinge on the effort it takes to make a new love grow.
Good luck to you!
My fiancé is located in another city about 250 miles away. Because of his job, he’ll be there another 6 months. Once he moves here, we plan to marry. We see each other every weekend. I do have a ring but no date. Thanks for all the well wishes!
I guess my point is this....it’s MY (& my fiancé) choice to continue to care for her in the home, which is saving my mom A LOT of money. My fiancé is willing to move here to help me. And yes he ACTUALLY helps on the weekends with her!
I just don’t agree with my sisters that we (me, my fiancé, my son) should be paying anything above the household expenses. This would be the same expenses we’ll be paying once we live here alone & she passes.
Why should I charge my husband to live here? Charging him would only go toward paying for her own personal supplies. Why should we alone be responsible for that, while my sisters contribute $0? Once he’s here, we’ll already be saving my mom almost $2,500/per month from her retirement fund. Currently I take about $5,000/mo from the fund to cover 2 PT caregivers (myself included) @ $4,500/mo + $500/mo for personal supplies, such as diapers, wipes, medicines/medical bills, special food, etc.
BTW, my son IS already contributing $250/mo to cover his expenses to live here.
In an effort to be even more fair, I suggested we ALL 4 sisters contribute an EQUAL amount to pay for her $500/monthly personal supplies, if they want to save even more of our mom’s money. They don’t want to do that!
I feel like I’m already being generous by currently paying a portion of the rent & household bills AND be the only daughter who is providing her care. Mind you, I was doing this FULL TIME, ALONE with NO help or a salary for 6 1/2 years prior!
The 3 of them gang up on me so it’s hard to state my position & get anywhere. I’m trying to keep the peace in the family, while still voicing my frustration. I’m just not being heard & they can’t seem to agree with my position.
Congratulations on your engagement!
Simplify, keeping everything above board or you will have a convoluted mess.
For example, everyone should be paying rent to Mom, then she can hire whomever she wants, and will have the money for that.
1) Write the rent check. Then she writes you the caregiver check for your services.
2) The 20 year old writes the rent check to Mom. Suddenly, he wants to move out on his own, as it should be. Or, he and grandma strike up a bargain of their own since you are srarting a new married life. Allow Son to have his own choices in life.
3) Your fiance should have the ability to buy a home or rent, in partnership with you as his wife. Start a new life. If you then inherit the house if your mom passes, you will have choices, the inheritance being yours until you co-mingle the finances with your new hubby. Does he have any children?
4) Where is your fiance living now, is there a ring on your finger, have you set a date and booked the reception hall? In October, right? Why are you waiting, June is right around the corner. You can visit him at his home on your days off?
Just some suggestions, wishing everyone could be in a position to choose the best life that they would want.
Caregivers recieve room, board and meals in addition to their salary plus regular time off.
Now do your sums again and you will find mom's care costs $20 an hour X 40 hours = $800 a week X 4 = $3200 a month plus things like FICA and a fill in to cover days off and vacations and overtime for holidays worked. I think you are looking at at least $5-6000 a month and more if you use an agency. That is at least $6o,ooo a year.
I don't know where you are or the cost of NH in your area but Mom has sufficient funds to cover about 5 years in a nursing home. I think the average life span in NH is about 2 1/2 years. I can be corrected on that number or any others I have quoted.
Are you providing care in your home or your mother's?
Has she executed any Durable or other Powers of Attorney or Living Will/Health Care Proxy? If so, who are those proxies? Are each of the daughters named, or is it you, or the daughters?
Add up. Don't forget to include the cost of caregiving time, no matter who supplies it. At the moment, my guess (I admit I haven't been through your figures carefully) would be that you are heavily subsidising your mother.
If the long lost romance develops into a serious proposition, and I wish you every happiness, then that would be the moment for you, your son and your husband to move into your own household and find alternative accommodation for your mother.
Your sisters will then - possibly, I wouldn't altogether count on it - come to appreciate quite how much those years you have given are worth.
As both you and your son are working, rent somewhere and live there. Commute to your mum, as required.
Tell your siblings you have done your share, and will be willing to continue to help, WHEN YOU CAN, but as you will have your OWN bills to pay, you will not be contributing financially. Ask them if they have any viable suggestions. (if they come up with ridiculous ones - I have no doubt they will, just say mmmm and ignore them)
Also say, that luckily Mum prepared for her retirement needs and the funds are there to be used FOR HER!!
Pay all of mum's bills from her finances. DO NOT use yours!
I am so happy you have reconnected with your sweetheart. It is also fantastic that your son seems to like him. Hold off on the marriage for a bit though. As long as you are together and he supports your values and decisions, make that enough for now.
See a GOOD attorney (may be a specialist that deal with age related stuff)
Stay strong, remember you are loved. You also have this place to come and say ANYTHING YOU WANT TO, you will not be judged.
Good luck
Sibs just get very ugly and vindictive when they see their future inheritance being spent for mom's needs which is what it is for. A live in caregiver, if an agency would cost around 10K a month. At least you are willed the house from the sounds of it. Or when mom needs nursing home, will the house become yours because of the length of time you have provided care?
Have you met with an elder law attorney? Hopefully this is setup that you are protected. Watch your back.
And do not move the boyfriend in. That could open a whole new can of worms and more ammunition for your twisteds.
Your sisters are never going to understand the concept of you being paid to caregive. Just move on.
#2- I am only child being abused daily by 94 y o mom- your siblings suck by showing they care about future $ instead of mom and You. Get an attorney and make it right for yourself as it sounds like you might be fck'd in the end in many ways by them.
#3 get spiritual advice from pastor/priest- have him speak to everyone and give confession and last rights to mom now-so you won't feel guilty when god takes her.
#4- Do not allow anyone to make you feel less about yourself - you are awesome!
Who holds financial POA for Mother? How about medical POA?
Mother's retirement fund is to pay for her care. Yoo-hoo! She needs care NOW. What are you saving it for? Can you explain, objectively, why it is better to struggle financially now that in some unspecified future time?
Use Mother's funds on Mother's behalf. If anybody is trying to preserve an inheritance, forget about it. A person with Parkinson's and Dementia and a nest egg of $300,000 is simply not going to have anything left at the end. Take care of final expenses (cremation, burial, whatever). Pay her expenses out of her funds, starting now. If/when she runs out, apply for Medicaid.
Don't sacrifice your own lives now. Don't have your sisters pay their own money for Mom's supplies. Mom has money for her own care. Use it for that!