POA #2 requirements.

Question

POA #2 requirements.

Follow

Share

My dear (and much older) friends, both 94 and married for 73 years, have made each other POA #1, and named me POA#2 if #1 is "unable or unwilling" to serve. Husband is now in hospital, with several serious conditions, and delirious. Wife insists he is fine, will come home soon, and nothing is changing.

She wants my help to handle bank actions etc, and I have been doing that, but she's in a wheelchair and that is VERY difficult, and time-consuming. I want to set-up on-line banking for them, so I can help from their home computer, but she does not understand that, and declines.

How can I prove to the bank that the husband, who is her POA#1, is unable, so I can set up online banking on their account? What documents does a bank need besides the POA form to let me do banking for her?

Elder Law Forms & Documents Power of Attorney (POA)

11 Answers

Most
Helpful Newest
First Oldest
First

So, here in Florida, my mother in law has my husband #1, his sister #2 and my father in law #3. To our understanding if one or the other is unavailable, then one of the others can take their place. I think their says if the first person is unavailable or unwilling, it goes to the next POA and so on and so on. It doesn’t say that that my husband has to be incompetent or dead in order for my sister in law to be the acting POA.

I think the very best thing to do would be ask the bank exactly what you can or can’t do and explain to them what your friend is trying to accomplish. Hopefully it’s just something as simple as that. If he has been declared incompetent OR incapacitated, you’ll probably need to bring paperwork from the doctor that has declared that. (In Florida it’s 2 doctors have to declare incompetence or incapacitated.

also, my husband says (and our elder law lawyer) said the POA was active and in effect the day my mother in law signed it. (For financial) Yours could possible be the same, and you might not even need a declaration of incompetency or incapacity.

I would go to the bank and ask them. Bring all the POA paperwork with you. Good luck! You’re a great friend to help them this way- POA and guardianship are hard work!

Helpful Answer (0)

Reply to JooFroo

Report

Also, if it’s hard to get your friend in the wheelchair to the bank to do all this, a rep from the bank just might come to them to make it easier. That’s what Truist has done for my mother in law…. But she also has a buttload of money in their bank….. but it’s worth it to see if they can send someone to you guys

(0)

Report

Need to establish mental competency. If person is mentally incompetent make financial or health decisions, then the POA goes into affect. Since you are POA#2, you need to establish that that both POA #1 and the other person are mentally incompetent. Ask POA #1 to submit for a health evaluation by the doctor to establish mental competency. If not mentally competent, then have doctor write up statements to that effect that you can use at bank(s) and other financial institutions. Ask doctor(s) at hospital to do same for the other spouse. Good luck!

Helpful Answer (0)

Reply to Taarna

Report

Hi Cinestiece,
I have just worked through a similar situation. You would really need two things in this situation. First you need the husbands doctor to deem him unable to serve due to whatever medical condition he is currently experiencing. So this kicks in the POA for the wife to handle his affairs. She then would need to have a notarized letter stating that she relinquishes all responsibilities of the POA to you. You can have a mobile notary come to the house. Usually runs $75 to $150 depending on where you live. This only allows you to take over POA for HIM.
Your problem is the Wife is still cognitively still able to manage their affairs (from what you state). Depending on how the POA is written, it could be as simple as the letter being used to relinquish POA responsibilities to you for the husband could also state she relinquishes financial responsibilities to you.
Honestly, if it just the banking it may simpler to have her add you to the account. However, if she wants you to handle medical decisions and Financial decisions then the POA is a better way to go.
FYI, the Federal Government does NOT recognize POA status. For SSA you need to be added as a Payee Representative. If either are Veterans then you would have to become a Veteran Fiduciary. Both involve interviews with the separate agencies, so it is not a simple procedure.
Hope this helps a little. I had to go through a similar situation of being #2 with my Aunt and Uncle.

Helpful Answer (1)

Reply to mpJD0204

Report

It’s time to see an attorney.

Helpful Answer (2)

Reply to Patathome01

Report

cinestiece: It seems the real issue at hand is the wife's mobility to be able to get to the financial institution.

Helpful Answer (1)

Reply to Llamalover47

Report

Our family worked closely with our lawyer to address a similar situation. Unless the laws differ for your location, are likely three steps that need to happen. First, you and the wife must work with husband's doctors to have him declared incompetent. Then, she can sign a statement declaring that she no longer wishes to be his POA, so it defaults to you. Finally, she must assign you her POA. The bank will need each of these documents, as well as the original POA documents that specified who the primary and secondary POA's were.

My parents named each other as primary POA and the kids as secondary POAs. When Dad became incapacitated, the requirements for triggering the POA (and removing him as trustee) were spelled out in the legal documents. In their case, it called for him being declared incompetent by a "panel" consisting of a physician and my mother.

Mom was not comfortable handling his POA and managing the trust, so our lawyer prepared a document for her sign stating that even though she was not incapacitated, she was relinquishing her roles as trustee and POA for my Dad. That enabled the secondaries to take over these roles.

Their bank required copies of the POA, as well as a copy of the document where she stepped down as POA. In our case, it was burdensome, because they named all 3 kids as POA/trustee, and no one has the power to act individually (but that's a whole other problem).

Helpful Answer (2)

Reply to elcee499

Report

I had much the same situation with my parents. My dad's POA document which named my mom as #1 allowed for her to delegate any or all of her powers to someone else. So their lawyer drew up a simple one-page delegation document, where she delegated to me (who was already named #2) all of her powers. That was adequate for everything I needed to do, except that the bank would not let me change the owner on their account (from both of them to just her), without her signing as well.

(0)

Report

My mom has dementia and has all but checked out on life responsibilities. I’ve been handling all of her bills and groceries for abt 3yrs. She has 1 bank card that she safe guards along with a Link card. I’m neither on her acct or her POA, I just do it as if I am. I’ve 3 siblings that are fully aware and thankful I’m taking care of these things. The only reason we started was bc she paid the same utility co 3x in one month. I created an email for her immediately making online accts go paperless. With my mom’s dementia, she’s aware I’m paying these things but still thinks I have no access to her bank bc she has the card. I pick & choose my battles. In her mind, she’s still in a place of taking care of her own things. My sister, the oldest has the only POA in place and it’s medical. She’s 9hrs away. So to protect myself I’ve created a file I send everyone monthly showing what came in, and what went out financially. They all have usernames & passwords to both her banking acct and email bc I want no issues should they arise. My mom refuses to do paperwork, flat out refusal. So, I said all that to say- I haven’t gone to the bank once but I’m the only one doing these things. I use her banks app needing only her ID, Debit Card info to get set up. I only did that once. I’m probably overkill with the amt of organization I’ve put into doing this but I’ve read too many horror stories surrounding these things. Just last week I closed out 2024 with every month/bills along with copies should something come up.

Helpful Answer (1)

Reply to MSalazar227

Report

You’ll probably need to have two physicians deem him incapable of making decisions.

Helpful Answer (1)

Reply to Koldobika

Report

Thank you all for your suggestions. I may have described the situation a bit more severe than it actually is. Wife is not un-cooperative, only a tad naive - and wary of anything on-line. She is very grateful for my help, and able mentally. Only physically limited. She would probably sign a new POA for just me now, if I explained the need, but accomplishing that (trip to lawyer, etc) is challenging. I was hoping it may not be necessary since I am #2 in the old POA already, and was wandering what document may the bank need to honor my #2 position. I will talk with her about a new POA. Thank you!

Helpful Answer (1)

Reply to cinestiece

Report

I believe you can mark up existing POA to save attorney fees but I’d contact the lawyer who did original POA to ask this in your state. You can then have a notary come to the house for new POA addendum signing (normally at a cost) but you’ll need 2 witnesses present and it can’t be the notary or the husband/wife. Many banks will no longer notarize POA or Advanced directives any longer.

(1)

Report

Visit the local branch the wife has used with her. Often a banker in the branch can be seen as authoritative where you cannot and help her see the wisdom of your plan. People of their age shouldn’t be POA for each other any longer, but it seems that ship has sailed for hubby changing his, wife may be able to change hers if she can be reasoned with, maybe by a good banker. This is the only shot I see of making this work, if she’s unreasonable you’ll need to reconsider your role in this

Helpful Answer (2)

Reply to Daughterof1930

Report

Good idea. If they are long-time customers who have always done their banking in person rather than online, the local employees might know them and recognize the severity of the situation.

(2)

Report

You cannot do POA for her.
She is capable of doing it and insists on doing it herself.
You currently are helping her get to the bank and etc.
If you are unable to continue to help her with this tell her that.
She will have to go to the bank herself them.
As long as she is the POA (and she IS that currently) she will manage her husbands affairs as she sees fit.

If, however, you see decline here that makes you worry that this isn't a safe situation, that is going to be a TOTAL MESS, if she doesn't agree, and it means that you and wife will need to see an attorney together.
If she is managing things in an unsafe way you are aware of, I would take all papers to the Banker and ask how to proceed for that institution and what type attorney to see.

This was a bad idea from the get-go, but hubby cannot change things now, nor can the wife, nor can you.
Seek legal help for safety's sake.

Helpful Answer (2)

Reply to AlvaDeer

Report

POA #2 requirements.

11 Answers

Recent Questions

Popular Questions

Related Questions