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she goes out of town alot for 2-3 weeks at the time. my mom lives with my brother but she is the POA. is this reasonable. My brother has no control over anything
I hope Debby doesn’t mind our butting in on her thread, but she has already got some good answers, so maybe she won’t mind our addressing your problem.
First, I don’t think psteigman meant that you, personally, are liable for your mother’s debts when your mother dies. The job of an executor of a will is to make sure the provisions of the will are carried out. Usually a person’s assets have to be used, first, to pay any debts she has at the time of her death and the executor has to make sure that happens. The executor doesn’t use his or her own money, but money from the deceased person’s estate. Once the bills are paid, if anything is left over, the executor has to make sure what’s left is divided among the heirs according to the will. The executor has to report to the courts and prove she or he has done it properly. And, of course, if the executor doesn’t do it properly, he or she can get in trouble. Who are the beneficiaries of your mother’s will? What changed from the 2006 will to the 2009 will? Why did your mother change her will?
Second, as I understand your posts, your mother’s pension and social security go directly to the nursing home, along with her insurance payments. The nursing home deducts what she owes them over and above the insurance payment, and you believe that your brother is getting what’s left over. Do you know for a fact that there is anything left over? A nursing home probably costs at least $5,000 a month. If anything is left over, do you know for sure your brother is taking it for himself? Could he be using it to pay your mother’s debts, or pay for extras for your mother that the nursing home fee does not include? If her things are in storage, that’s probably close to $100 a month right there.
Third, if your mother lived with your brother, I think it would be reasonable for her to pay him $500 a month while she was there to help cover the additional cost of living with him. An extra person in the house means additional gas, electricity, water and food bills. I really don’t think you have any complaint against your brother there. As to the reduction in her savings, from $50,000 to $27,000 over two to three years --- that’s more serious. Are you sure your brother took it for himself? Since the two of you don’t talk, I assume you haven’t asked him how he used the money. Could he have used it to pay off your mother’s debts? Unreimbursed medical costs? Equipping the house with grab rails, etc., for her use? Pre-paid funeral costs? Etc.?
Finally, if you have financial POA, you should be the one receiving reports from the nursing home about the receipt and disbursement of your mother’s funds, and you should be the one paying any remaining bills she has, including storage, etc., with your mother’s money. You say you and your brother don’t talk --- maybe you should try calling him and telling him you’re ready to take over the responsibility now that your mother has changed her designation of the POA. He may be very happy to turn it over to you. How does he know you want the car if you don’t tell him? (But remember, if her money doesn’t cover car payments, car insurance, taxes, etc., you’ll either have to pay them yourself of sell the car---for her benefit. If it doesn’t cover the storage facility, you’ll have to dispose of the contents---again, for her benefit.) As CarolLynn says, silence gives consent.
Good luck. I hope you can disentangle this situation and just concentrate on making your mother’s last months or years comfortable and care-free.
Poor debby - this was her post and others are side tracking her question.
Sonja, please don't feel you're being picked on, Equinox had the same problem within this very thread AND if you will read this website's words directly above the input box and below the words "Answer this Question", you will see that it says "Please stay on topic or ask a new question."
So for future reference Sonja, your question is substantially off-topic enough to have been posted as your own question. You see, 2 things happen when you post a detailed question about a different topic within someone else's post: (1) the erent poster is hijacking the question away from the original poster and (2) your question and answers are getting lost under the wrong topic.
Now, I know I'm sticking my neck out here seeing as how your answer #12 just above is pretty defensive. You were commenting on your situation and people on this forum are here to give their opinions. I don't think "ps" is a lawyer and neither am I. That doesn't stop us from having experience.
So, let me share with you something that should concern you greatly. There is a legal concept that Silence Implies Consent. The Latin for it is "qui tacet consentire videtur" and translates to "he who is silent is taken to agree".
Did your lawyer explain this to you? In spite of the fact that you and your brother don't communicate (does this also mean that you don't see your mother), I'm GUESSING (this us NOT legal ADVICE) that because your brother has possession of your mother's things, and you are not disagreeing with it now, you won't be able to disagree with it later. That as the executor of her (that is unknown to your brother), you will only be able to execute what you can get possession of, which may only be what's left over after your brother gets done doing things that you have implied consent for him to do.
Umm, maybe you better check with your attorney again.
To pstiegman, are you a lawyer? First of all I been told by an elder law attorney that I am not responsible for any of my mother's debts...She is not dead yet. My brother is the one with her money and her personal junk. I can prove that he has everything. I have her old bank account with all his activity plus paymt to storage with her stuff in it access to her social security checks and is also paying the facility with her income. Her car is at his house also. So please can you explain to me how I would be responsible and I'm in trouble.
Back to debbydeal....Hey Debby you're the one who previously asked about how much caregivers should be paid? Was this in reference to the brother in this question?
When you say he has no control over anything ? What's anything?
, Good suggestions, thanks. I have NOBODY on this green earth that wants to take that responsibility. I have emergency number of people the NH can reach when I am out of town. I don't know if that person would want to step in. It's just me!
Equinox - just for future reference, IMHO, I think you should have posted your question as a new query. I think it kinda hi-jacked debby's post.
But anyway, first of all make sure everyone visiting your mom is aware that her problem is memory. Ask them not to assist her with anything, especially something they take out of the facility, without checking in first with the staff about it.
As regards your trip and being away so far from your mom, you can talk to the social worker at the nursing home. As your mom's health POA, you can grant someone else a temporary health power by assigning FROM and TO dates on another document.
Which brings up an important question for people who travel that are responsible for folks who are impaired. Who is your backup for your mom in case something happens to you on your trip or travels, whether it be some disaster, a sickness, or stepping in front of a bus at home? Surely you have a second agent waiting in the wings to be responsible? That would be the logical person, and if it is set up that way, you don't even need an interim health power. That person would automatically be able to step in if you're not available.
I am the POA etc for my mom. She is in the NH. I and my husband are planning tfor a tour to the holy land. What do I do if there's an emergency and I would I be contacted. As soon as I know the location of the hotels we are staying I can let the NH know. Any suggestions. We are leaving in Feb 2014. When I leave town I always make sure there is a reliable family member and a friend to check up on her. It's her older sister and a family friend who always go see her once a week. The fact is, it will be feb and we have snow sleet and rain during feb. I am concerned that the weather will keep her sister from driving because of the rain sleet and snow. I don't blame for driving in real bad weather. However I'm sure she/ they will do the best they can. The worst that's happened while I was away was loosing her teeth, absent minded gave them to our friend so family friend took it home till I got back. The NH didn't know, and went looking for them. My mom forgot she gave them to her. Thank you for suggestions! Equinox
No. The facility told me his is dated 2006. My will was made in 2009. What the facility does is they take her income like social security and pension and then take what the insurance( medical) pays and the difference comes out of her income. I would rather see all her assets and money go straight to the facility rather then his pocket. He has already helped himself to quite a bit plus charging her five hundred a month for her rent from her social security. In 2010 she left with 50,000 in savings and in January 2013 it's down to 27,000 he had her close her old account because her bank reported all the activity that was going on, So only he knows where the 27,000 is... he has really taken advantage with deception and lies . I have reported him to adult protective services, but they don't get back to you so I don't know the outcome.
What do you do when your mom dies and you have POA durable and a will with me as the executor. She lived with my half brother until he put her in a rest home. He has all my mother's assets money, car, and all her personal belongings. So what steps do I take to get the things into my possession when she dies? He has no idea I have a will, nor are we in speaking terms. Up to now he has been making the decisions for the long term rest home. But now unbeknownst to him I'm in charge. He has been making the payments to the home for what the insurance doesn't cover with her social security and her small pension left to her in by her husband. Thank you!
debby - once again we have the difficulty of not understanding which POAs are being discussed.
Does the "she" sibling (l'm presuming your sister) have both the FINANCIAL POA (hopefully it is an IMMEDIATE DURABLE GENERAL POA) and the HEALTH POA (some type of advanced directive or healthcare POA)?
It often isn't the case that one person has both, but it is generally better because then the caretaking person has access to the financial means necessary to care take.
Altho it sometimes works out when the responsibilities are split, you can read on this forum just as many if not more times how that doesn't work out.
And you can also read how many times the caretaking person, the one who either lives with the elder parent or whose home the Elder parent lives in, awesome does not have the authority to handle the health care decisions or the finances.
It doesn't seem right, moral, effective or safe, particularly when the responsibility is somewhat disconnected or oblivious to the process.
If your mom is still a competent, she can change her choices. If not, you and your brother can request that your sister relinquish her authority to you and your brother. If she doesn't agree, and you and your brother are each others support system, you can "gang up" on her with your evidence of wrongdoing and ask her to step down graciously. If she still refuses, you and your brother may have to file in court for conservatorship.
My sister has POA for both financial and medical. Convinced parents it would be best because she lives the closest. That said, she can't make a decision to save her life. Her approach is to ignore what needs to be done because eventually someone else (usually me) will get fed up and do whatever needs to be done. She wants all the authority but none of the responsibly. And she refuses to make the financial information available to anyone else. Claims she doesn't have to answer to any one of us. Off topic, I know & I'm sorry.
I started out being the sole POA for my mother-in-law. Then I had a medical thing happen, and that started making me think that maybe it shouldn't just be me. My hubby wasn't interested, so I asked one of his brothers to share POA with me. I still control the checkbook and pay all her bills, but I have to say it's been nice running ideas past him, and it has worked well for the last 5 years. I have everything about her banking and also health care thru Kaiser online and accessible to all three of her sons. So far so good. So I KNOW it can be done! Good luck.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
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APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
I hope Debby doesn’t mind our butting in on her thread, but she has already got some good answers, so maybe she won’t mind our addressing your problem.
First, I don’t think psteigman meant that you, personally, are liable for your mother’s debts when your mother dies. The job of an executor of a will is to make sure the provisions of the will are carried out. Usually a person’s assets have to be used, first, to pay any debts she has at the time of her death and the executor has to make sure that happens. The executor doesn’t use his or her own money, but money from the deceased person’s estate. Once the bills are paid, if anything is left over, the executor has to make sure what’s left is divided among the heirs according to the will. The executor has to report to the courts and prove she or he has done it properly. And, of course, if the executor doesn’t do it properly, he or she can get in trouble. Who are the beneficiaries of your mother’s will? What changed from the 2006 will to the 2009 will? Why did your mother change her will?
Second, as I understand your posts, your mother’s pension and social security go directly to the nursing home, along with her insurance payments. The nursing home deducts what she owes them over and above the insurance payment, and you believe that your brother is getting what’s left over. Do you know for a fact that there is anything left over? A nursing home probably costs at least $5,000 a month. If anything is left over, do you know for sure your brother is taking it for himself? Could he be using it to pay your mother’s debts, or pay for extras for your mother that the nursing home fee does not include? If her things are in storage, that’s probably close to $100 a month right there.
Third, if your mother lived with your brother, I think it would be reasonable for her to pay him $500 a month while she was there to help cover the additional cost of living with him. An extra person in the house means additional gas, electricity, water and food bills. I really don’t think you have any complaint against your brother there. As to the reduction in her savings, from $50,000 to $27,000 over two to three years --- that’s more serious. Are you sure your brother took it for himself? Since the two of you don’t talk, I assume you haven’t asked him how he used the money. Could he have used it to pay off your mother’s debts? Unreimbursed medical costs? Equipping the house with grab rails, etc., for her use? Pre-paid funeral costs? Etc.?
Finally, if you have financial POA, you should be the one receiving reports from the nursing home about the receipt and disbursement of your mother’s funds, and you should be the one paying any remaining bills she has, including storage, etc., with your mother’s money. You say you and your brother don’t talk --- maybe you should try calling him and telling him you’re ready to take over the responsibility now that your mother has changed her designation of the POA. He may be very happy to turn it over to you. How does he know you want the car if you don’t tell him? (But remember, if her money doesn’t cover car payments, car insurance, taxes, etc., you’ll either have to pay them yourself of sell the car---for her benefit. If it doesn’t cover the storage facility, you’ll have to dispose of the contents---again, for her benefit.) As CarolLynn says, silence gives consent.
Good luck. I hope you can disentangle this situation and just concentrate on making your mother’s last months or years comfortable and care-free.
Realtime
Sonja, please don't feel you're being picked on, Equinox had the same problem within this very thread AND if you will read this website's words directly above the input box and below the words "Answer this Question", you will see that it says "Please stay on topic or ask a new question."
So for future reference Sonja, your question is substantially off-topic enough to have been posted as your own question. You see, 2 things happen when you post a detailed question about a different topic within someone else's post: (1) the erent poster is hijacking the question away from the original poster and (2) your question and answers are getting lost under the wrong topic.
Now, I know I'm sticking my neck out here seeing as how your answer #12 just above is pretty defensive. You were commenting on your situation and people on this forum are here to give their opinions. I don't think "ps" is a lawyer and neither am I. That doesn't stop us from having experience.
So, let me share with you something that should concern you greatly. There is a legal concept that Silence Implies Consent. The Latin for it is "qui tacet consentire videtur" and translates to "he who is silent is taken to agree".
Did your lawyer explain this to you? In spite of the fact that you and your brother don't communicate (does this also mean that you don't see your mother), I'm GUESSING (this us NOT legal ADVICE) that because your brother has possession of your mother's things, and you are not disagreeing with it now, you won't be able to disagree with it later. That as the executor of her (that is unknown to your brother), you will only be able to execute what you can get possession of, which may only be what's left over after your brother gets done doing things that you have implied consent for him to do.
Umm, maybe you better check with your attorney again.
When you say he has no control over anything ? What's anything?
I have NOBODY on this green earth that wants to take that responsibility. I have emergency number of people the NH can reach when I am out of town. I don't know if that person would want to step in. It's just me!
But anyway, first of all make sure everyone visiting your mom is aware that her problem is memory. Ask them not to assist her with anything, especially something they take out of the facility, without checking in first with the staff about it.
As regards your trip and being away so far from your mom, you can talk to the social worker at the nursing home. As your mom's health POA, you can grant someone else a temporary health power by assigning FROM and TO dates on another document.
Which brings up an important question for people who travel that are responsible for folks who are impaired. Who is your backup for your mom in case something happens to you on your trip or travels, whether it be some disaster, a sickness, or stepping in front of a bus at home? Surely you have a second agent waiting in the wings to be responsible? That would be the logical person, and if it is set up that way, you don't even need an interim health power. That person would automatically be able to step in if you're not available.
Thank you for suggestions!
Equinox
Does the "she" sibling (l'm presuming your sister) have both the FINANCIAL POA (hopefully it is an IMMEDIATE DURABLE GENERAL POA) and the HEALTH POA (some type of advanced directive or healthcare POA)?
It often isn't the case that one person has both, but it is generally better because then the caretaking person has access to the financial means necessary to care take.
Altho it sometimes works out when the responsibilities are split, you can read on this forum just as many if not more times how that doesn't work out.
And you can also read how many times the caretaking person, the one who either lives with the elder parent or whose home the Elder parent lives in, awesome does not have the authority to handle the health care decisions or the finances.
It doesn't seem right, moral, effective or safe, particularly when the responsibility is somewhat disconnected or oblivious to the process.
If your mom is still a competent, she can change her choices. If not, you and your brother can request that your sister relinquish her authority to you and your brother. If she doesn't agree, and you and your brother are each others support system, you can "gang up" on her with your evidence of wrongdoing and ask her to step down graciously. If she still refuses, you and your brother may have to file in court for conservatorship.