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V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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That's kind of a tough question with out knowing a bit of background. Does she have any other assets that she can use or are they depleted? My mom moved from a large townhouse to senior residence to assisted care to my house as her dementia got worse. All her possessions went with her or to my house. I have one room and part of my garage full of her stuff. I made donations in her name to charities over the years just to make room which were itemized on her tax return. She does not need to file because of her income, but I want records to show her situations for all years. I took away all her jewelry once it became evident she doesn't remember any of it and she started losing diamond rings and such. All I can say is document everything you sell to protect your self from siblings and the feds. If you sell an item of value you may have to prove it was not a gift and you used it to pay for care. If she needs to go on aid the 5 year lookback and spend down policies include assets. This is a gray area because how would anyone know what possessions she had? Just be safe and keep track of where and why the money went. I know this is long winded but there is no clear cut yes or no answer. Matt383
Do you have siblings? Maybe you should all agree on this. As far as your legal rights, I don't know. you may need your mothers permission. Do you mean the house too?
For what it is worth, I just sold some "important" antiques and some lesser antiques (to make up the fee) at an auction. It was well attended buy buyers and collectors,professionals. when we got the check I nearly keeled over. It was only a fraction of what ewe had expected. apparently the Maine Antiques Digest has a cover article every month about the low value of antiques right now.. According to one story, an item originally purchased for $60K a few decades ago went recently for $18K. I am thanking God that I kept the "most important."
So, again, for what it is worth. These items might not have the dollar value you imagine and might be better kept for the sentimental value to grandchildren.
We have done this with my mother in laws things. She lives with us now and has Mod to severe Alz. , legally of course. They have helped her quality of life and given me some much needed respite in the form of some outside home health help. She will not shower if I help her, so having someone come in helps, she for some reason will cooperate with them. Additionally her Namenda copay is very expensive so it helps cover that. So I say yes.
{Q}Can I sell things from my Mom's home to defray costs of her care? {EQ}
Nothing, it seems, is ever simple. At a caregivers support group two sisters were telling of selling things of their Mom's home to defray costs. She accompanied them during the sale, Both had DPOA Another sister was currently suing them for selling the stuff.
If the DPOA says the principals agent may sell the principal 's property, then Yes the agent may sell their property. It gets dicey when considering selling things which other siblings or heirs may have wanted to have --but not because of anything the DPOA document says, only because of hurt feelings by heirs. Getting "permissions " from each and every sibling & heir---that could make it seem like they have some powers, which, they Do Not. So, just keep records. And what someone said about the values being a lot lower--very true. My dad had a beautiful saxophone which he said he paid over $8,000 forty years ago; it was worthless when we tried to sell it. Even jewelry -- the insurance value is not the amount a jewelry store would buy it back for. If the Heirs want something very badly (and you would have to Have ESP to know this......) then offer it for sale to them, by a certain date. Of course that invites the Wrath of Other Heirs--exactly why it is a Total Nightmare for a DPOA to accomplish anything, if they ask permission from the heirs (even the "nicest " ones can turn into devils when it comes to gramps saxophone or grams China).
When the doctor told my father he could no longer live alone, he had to move out of the house. He moved into an assisted living community. I hired a company to do an estate sale. All that they did not sell was donated to a charity, who picked up the items that same day as the sale We used the money to pay off a few debts. My dad had a reverse mortgage on the house, so the house went to the bank. This went off better than I had expected. I highly recommend an estate sale. It was not until then, that I realized that him having a reverse mortgage was the best thing that could have happened.
butterfly, many people have estate sales when an elder moves into AL or a NH. There is a pennies-on-a-dollar return, but it helps clear the clutter. This is priceless. You will not get anywhere near full market for things unless it is rare. If it is rare and valuable, it would be better to sell it at a good auction.
Yes, it is okay to sell your mother's things to provide for her care if she is not going to be able to return home. The thought of consulting with the other children is a very good one. The price that you will get for most things is not worth the damage that would be caused if feelings were hurt. If someone really wants a certain object, then reserve it for them or let them take it home if everyone is in agreement. And, of course, document where all the belongings are. Medicaid does not consider the value of normal house contents or personal effects if she has to apply for Medicaid on down the road.
Clearing an estate can be a painful thing to do. Each thing can have memories tied into it. It is sad to see a memory-laden piece sell for 50 cents on the final day. I go to a lot of estate sales and always feel sad and respectful of the things that I see.
I did this. The answer to your question, legally, is yes if you are her POA. You can. I wondered about legal ramifications too, so I consulted a lawyer and he confirmed that by doing that I was "doing my duty as POA." My situation was a little more complicated because my mother had willed some rather large items (furniture) to my sister. However, we had to give up her apt. Should could not pay NY rent with all her income going to the nursing home. So I asked my sister to come get the items. She kept making promises, saying she had to "look up prices for Uhaul," promising to cover the cost of rent (which she didn't; I did). Two months later, she hadn't come or called, so I sold it instead of letting the landlord put it out on the street. I took the small and sentimental stuff, but I could't take the furniture. My lawyer said the will was meaningless because it was "a gratuitous transfer with no consideration, with the bright line contengency of my mother's death. " In layman's terms, she had no right whatsoever to the stuff. If it matters, my sister is the "do nothing sibling." I cared for my mother by myself during her illness, spent money, spent my heath, gave up opportunities for better jobs, etc so I could be a good caregiver. In the years of my mother's illness before the nursing home, roughly 2006-2014, she visited about 4 times. Every year she called my mother precisely 5 times (New Years, Mother's Day, her birthday, Thanksgiving, and Christmas.) Yet now she's furious with me and wailed to my husband that she can't believe her "own sister" would betray her like that. She screamed that it's "an injustice of epic proportions." So it can get complicated. Before doing something like this, check your own motives. Are you providing the care and planning to "pay" yourself with the proceeds? If that's the case, you should get your mother's permission and buy-in. That's just the right thing to do. If she's not cool with that, and you can't care for her without the financial help, you should tell her that's why you can't continue, and give her the option of going into a facility, either private pay assisted living or mediciad nursing home. Or perhaps another relative who would do it for free. If your mother is of sound mind, you should allow her the diginity of making this decision. If she's not, that's why she made you DPOA. Use your descretion and d o it wisely. Good luck.
Yep, antiques are not 'valuable' anymore. My MIL was 'forced' into an estate sale by BIL and she thought her beautiful stuff would net a lot. BIL showed her the final net and it was a little over $10,000 including her 10 year old car, which of course had almost no miles on it. The sale included two bedroom sets and old beds are very little. One needed specially made sheets and was 3/4 full size. The thing is, what stuff is insured for is not what it is 'worth'. And estate sales aka estate auctions are notoriously shopped by antique dealers who buy low and sell for profit. Everyone has their own take on 'stuff'. Personally, my memories are in my head. My parents have hung onto so much and my mother is only 20 years older than I am, meaning by the time she gets rid of her things I am going to be doing the same thing! Grandkids do not either a) want it or b) live close enough to come get it. I would offer up to family whatever they might want and after that, you can sell or store or both. I would NOT show her what it sold for, no matter how much she is curious. It will hurt and it can be skirted around, particularly if she has dementia. Life to me is for the living. Storing nice things is hard on them, particularly antiques. If family doesn't want them and you need the cash for your mom, I would sell them. But that's just me.
My POA says I have the right to sell anything. So far it was a car for $500, it was 23yrs old. Money went right to Moms bank account. I don't know how u can be sued since the parent put u in charge. As long as u have receipts of what u sold and where the money went, there should be no problem. Any checks I've written to me have receipts to back up. Now I use her sm pension for her personal needs and have receipts for everything I spent it on. Not that my brothers would question me. One is glad its not him dealing with it. The other lives 7hrs away and has thanked me for what I'm doing. Him I keep on the loop. We all realize that any assets my Mom has will go to her care. We don't expect anything left over.
Use extreme caution, and always consult the attorney for any Medicaid purposes. I may sound like a parrot with other people's opinions, but the money situation cannot be emphasized enough! Remember, anything sold during Mom's life using Medicaid will be non-exempt assets that Medicaid may go after, whether family agrees or disagrees.
Must have POA to do so legally. Much memories to sell my moms things so many memories. Now it is my husband only some things but I have to get my mind set to do it. I can only do a bit at a time so many memories and emotions. I have to do it myself with God's help. Blessings to ALL!
What state do you live in? If it's a more liberal state like New York, your mom might be eligible for medicaid to pay for her in home care. The program here is called cdpap which allows you to hire your own caregivers and can even be a family member as long as it's not a husband or someone with poa. In New York, she can have up to 15k in assets, not including the home. I would research your state's eligibility rules. Also, if she earns/ has too much, you can put the excess in disability trust and then use those funds to pays bills instead of giving it to medicaid for spend-down. For example, if her SS is $1500 and Max medicaid income is $800, you send $700 each month to the trust and send them bills/receipts and they reimburse her from her money. Most people don't know about the trust option and then don't apply for medicaid because the spend down is so much.
Butterfly57, I am also a only child with POA. Use your "power" to help your mother. You will be pleased with the outcome. I kept pictures and a few small items for my home. I was not even in town for the estate sale. I found a wonderful company who did everything. God Bless You!
Here in Belgium the law is quite different. Everything belonging to one of your parents or both if still alive, is to be described, with estimated values, under supervision of a bailiff in case of valuable goods as paintings, antiques, etc. This list is to be handed to the Court within 30 days after having been nominated as "tutor". Even if you are appointed as "tutor" for you mom or dad, you can not sell a single thing, even if the value is an absolute minimum. This is to assure that nothing has disappeared, even if the turnover of the sale is say usdoll. 50. This is to avoid any possible dispute with brothers, sisters, etc.. after the person has died. I understand that in many families enormous difficulties arise after the death of a family member. When the income of this person is insufficient to cover expenses for necessary things, we have to apply to the same Court, asking whether this or that can be sold, in order to pay the bills. Normally this is granted, but again, any sale of valuable material has to be done under supervision of a bailiff. Luckily it is not that difficult where you live. However, all measures I have mentioned above are of good use at time of inheritance. If I was in your shoes, I first would discuss this item with your mother, if she has no dementia, as well as with bros and sisters. In case of large items (antique furniture, valuable paintings, juwelry etc..) have it sold at a auction house with good reputation. Keep every small piece of paper, as well as of the prices obtained by sale, and the bills, so that they can not blame you for anything. In case of a house or flat, take a good lawyer, who will assist you in order to avoid all possible problems, discussions, fights, etc.. You may think now that this sister or brother is extremely trustworthy, but when money is at stake, some persons can take very rare, unforeseen jumps. Wish you and your mom all the best. With a big hug from Belgium
Sure sounds like a lot of time-consuming WORK for the POA to have to think through all these scenarios before selling, or keeping (and thus, storing) (and tripping over all that stored stuff) (or dealing with "hurt" feelings). We are in process of sorting thru my parents stuff (1 parent remains, lives with us, but came with both parents' accumulated stuff).
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Does she have any other assets that she can use or are they depleted?
My mom moved from a large townhouse to senior residence to assisted care to my house as her dementia got worse. All her possessions went with her or to my house.
I have one room and part of my garage full of her stuff. I made donations in her name to charities over the years just to make room which were itemized on her tax return. She does not need to file because of her income, but I want records to show her situations for all years. I took away all her jewelry once it became evident she doesn't remember any of it and she started losing diamond rings and such. All I can say is document everything you sell to protect your self from siblings and the feds. If you sell an item of value you may have to prove it was not a gift and you used it to pay for care. If she needs to go on aid the 5 year lookback and spend down policies include assets. This is a gray area because how would anyone know what possessions she had? Just be safe and keep track of where and why the money went. I know this is long winded but there is no clear cut yes or no answer.
Matt383
So, again, for what it is worth. These items might not have the dollar value you imagine and might be better kept for the sentimental value to grandchildren.
Nothing, it seems, is ever simple.
At a caregivers support group two sisters were telling of selling things of their Mom's home to defray costs.
She accompanied them during the sale,
Both had DPOA
Another sister was currently suing them for selling the stuff.
Have a good lawyer and keep records
Yes, it is okay to sell your mother's things to provide for her care if she is not going to be able to return home. The thought of consulting with the other children is a very good one. The price that you will get for most things is not worth the damage that would be caused if feelings were hurt. If someone really wants a certain object, then reserve it for them or let them take it home if everyone is in agreement. And, of course, document where all the belongings are. Medicaid does not consider the value of normal house contents or personal effects if she has to apply for Medicaid on down the road.
Clearing an estate can be a painful thing to do. Each thing can have memories tied into it. It is sad to see a memory-laden piece sell for 50 cents on the final day. I go to a lot of estate sales and always feel sad and respectful of the things that I see.
I have to do it myself with God's help.
Blessings to ALL!