It’s been a few years since I’ve been on. My mother had lived with me in my state. She had got me to the point that I considered ending my life because of all the constant misery. I quit my job for 3 months and moved her up north near my brother. She eventually hated where she moved and had confrontation with the person running the place. My brother has a very demanding job that doesn’t give him much time to spend hrs at a doctors appointment. He moved her to a assisted living facility that is brand new. It has lots of people… Drs, nurses, 3 meals, physical therapy everything she needs so he doesn’t have to worry when he is out of town. I have recently learned that she has early symptoms of dementia… that she says is not true. My brother has done backward flips to get this completed. Everyday I talk to her she just continues to put him down and complains about what he is not doing. She always wants me to take her side to where it becomes an argument. She also lives negatively constantly living in the past and all the wrong doings to her. No one in the family likes to call her or visit because she causes conflict. There is just so much more to this story. My brother was supposed to visit her today and take her to eat. That didn’t happen because she called him a traitor and he didn’t love her and that she was going to move and she has only been in her new apartment for a month. This event was caused by him mistaking that she could get her pain medication thru the doctors at the facility and not return to the pain Dr. He wanted to simplify and make sure she always had access to her meds in case he was out of town for work. I was the bad horrible person when she lived with me and now since she has lived close to him he is now the bad guy. She loves her children… but she claims she can say and do whatever she wants to her kids because she is the mom. Today I had to tell her I love her and hang up on her. The conversation was leading to an argument. I am exhausted mentally from listening to all the negativity that I listen to for hrs each day on the phone. I love her but she is never happy. I don’t know what to do for her
I recently had to explain to flying monkeys that came to visit my FIL that he will never be happy , he doesn’t want to. He has dementia and would rather stay in his room and not socialize with any of the other residents at AL. A year ago he lost his wife and got put in AL in a months time . His life totally changed and these visitors expect him to take a happy pill and go to activities and get over his grief.
Tell me does it get very cold where you are so far up on the moral high ground?
"Love is willing to work to benefit another". Love does not mean becoming a martyr to someone else's neediness. Love is not measured by how deep we are willing to wallow in another's misery.
What about loving yourself? Is that not important as well?
If being around someone's toxic and negative behavior has a terrible effect on you, avoid that person.
Let me tell you something, my friend. I was a caregiver mostly to elderly for 25 years.
I have worked for elderly people who downright sparkled at every activity in AL or MC. Elders who I had a ball with every day. Going shopping, out to eat, movies, spa days. I even had one old-timer who I used to take to the casino twice a month. He'd drop me a hundred bucks to play at the tables with and then he'd pay for lunch. If he won, I'd get a nice gift. Like a Loius Vuitton handbag (that I still use) or super high-end cosmetics. We used to go to the track too because we both loved the ponies.
The second certain people would come around usually one or all of their grown kids, they would change and become totally different people. It's like flipping a light switch on and off.
They would go from having fun and being the life of the party to the negativity, the gloom and doom, misery, and then take their seat on the pity pot with the "woe is me" bullcrap. I've seen this behavior many times.
It's a performance.
They want their adult kids to feel bad because they believe it will keep them at the center of their lives so they can control and manipulate them. If the grown kids think mom or dad is enjoying life, they won't feel so guilty.
Maybe they won't sacrifice and neglect their own lives, careers, families, and homes as much by trying to find ways to make mom or dad less negative and miserable.
Most of the time what this behavior does accomplish is to drive their grown kids further and further away from them.
So not everyone is "under attack". Also, many elderly people just enjoy being miserable. Complaining is a form of sport and entertainment for many.
I bow to the superior wit and wisdom of one of this forum's members who so rightly said,
'Don't light yourself on fire to keep someone else warm'.
Respect...
You're also right. Never indulge the complaining. End the call or the visit.
There is absolutely NO excuse for the abusive behavior. Illness is not an excuse to abuse others, especially those trying to help you. A few suggestions: (1) to preserve your own mental health, you may want to distance yourself; (2) you can keep putting up healthy boundaries like when you ended the conversation when she started complaining and hung up but explain to her why you are doing this; (3) get a social worker / family therapist on board to have a session with you and your mom and with your brother and your mom. Your Mom needs to see that her behavior is damaging and toxic to others. Growing old is very hard … very challenging. But she is blessed to have you and your brother. She needs to see that and not have such a self-entitled attitude. Although she is sick and older, life is not “ all about her “. It sounds like you have had a lifetime of this from when you were very young. Take it from someone who :lost her health, aged 20 years in the past 10 years, is now struggling with finances, has a home that is in severe disrepair, and is suffering from severe anxiety to the point I have trouble doing anything for myself. In my opinion, you need to take care of yourself and if that means not being there for her and her abuse, then that is what that means. But you need to let her know and set some boundaries. A family counselor will help with this. Good luck and God bless.
I wish you well in trying to improve your own health and rebuild/take back your own life. It is difficult , I’ve been there .
This describes my mom to a T and she doesn't have any dementia, and we live together. Nothing I do makes her happy, and if I do something that does make her happy, she turns into a "it's about time, I deserve this!"
She was never like this until the last few years. My brother checked out a long time ago, because he has his own issues he don't wont to admit to. I could write a book.
I hope things get better for you!
Let the AL take care of your mother. Period.
I only saw mother a few times a year and once her dementia progressed I stopped answering phone calls. They were too crazy and upsetting.
You don't have to listen to all that negativity every day. It harms you and it just enables her. You can't fix her, you can only fix yourself and I think it is time you started looking after your own emotional state,
I don't mean that unkindly. You are suffering. I suspect your mum enjoys being unhappy and making other people unhappy,
You can limit contact with your mother. Let phone calls go to voice mail. If she gets angry that is her problem - her feelings are hers to deal with, Your feelings are yours to look after.
You are not alone. Please start looking after you. Focus on your own needs not on your mother's wishes. Do some things that you enjoy. Take a walk, go out for a meal, have an evening with a friend, buy yourself some flowers...
Be good to you and take some space from your mother. She is being cared for by others which is for the best.
Give yourself a lot of compassion and acknowledgment for what you've done and what you want to do.
Firstly, you need to understand what dementia is and what it does to a person. Their brain chemistry has changed / is in the process of changing.
* You are (wanting to) talking to your mother as if she doesn't have dementia.
* You need to learn how to talk with her; it is learning an entirely new language / way of communication.
- I urge you to google TEEPA SNOW. She is one of the country's leading experts on dementia and has many tools to support family / care providers in how to be with / communicate with / work with people / family inflicted with dementia. She has webinars and more. I studied webinars with her for 1-1/2 years (for my work).
* Watching Teepa be with / communicate with a person with dementia is like watching a ballet star or a basketball player making a 3 pointer. She is magnificent. No matter how much experience I have (10+ years working with elders w dementia, I always learn something new from her) - and in awe of her abilities. Something as simple as making eye contact, being at eye level is huge... being aware of your voice / tone of voice... things most of us wouldn't think about she brings to the forefront.
- I find that no matter how severe the dementia, people respond to being respected and loved. When I tell my client that I love her - she lights up. Same when I compliment her "Oh, you look beautiful today," she smiles with delight. Even though she talks gibbership to me, we connect on a very human level. I could almost cry thinking of this level of compassion, intimacy, caring, bonding we have.
* When you need to end the conversation, tell her that you are hanging up. (Perhaps you do say this). If it was me, I would say, I need to go now mom. I love you and understand that you feel xxx (reflect some of her words back to her. I'll call you soon (or tomorrow ... or whenever). I am going to hang up now. Then do it. This is ending a call, with compassion.
Part of this transition requires family to:
1) work together - be on the same page so mother gets messaging.
2) Set boundaries - stick to them
3) Communicate with reflective listening, i.e., "I hear you saying xxx." You are not agreeing or judging, you are simply letting her know that you hear her - that you are listening to her. SHE WILL FEEL VALIDATED.
4) Be compassionate, understanding she is afraid and losing her independent / ability to care for herself as she did / as she thinks she can / as she no longer can.
- Yes, your bro can't spend hours at an MD appt - this is when you hire a caregiver to take her... sit with her ... and possibly go into the appt with her (I do) - to take notes (if this works out).
TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF.
* You must care for yourself otherwise you will be / feel depleted and as you say ... "She had got me to the point that I considered ending my life because of all the constant misery."
- This is heartbreaking to read although understandable. No one can be on caring for another 24/7 and not care for their own health needs: eating healthy, getting exercise, enough sleep, creating supportive networks, and yes - a respite / making time to have fun.
- As you can, hire others to help you. You cannot continue on like this without massive negative health repercussions to yourself - and you do not want to go down that road.
* Keep a personal journal.
* Make a daily plan/commitment: What you will do for yourself.
* Once you set boundaries (with your mom), you will find more equanimity and balance in yourself.
* Get into therapy, even short term, if possible. You need an advocate to support you. This journey with you mom will continue and she will continue to decline so you need to get your plans in order (with your brother).
Slowly, learn to re-wire your automatic thinking / behavior. Be gentle with yourself. Gena / Touch Matters
Limit visits . With her personality , she will not be happy no matter how often you visit . Go no contact when you need to . I didn’t see my mother for 6 weeks one summer . My brother only saw her once a year .
Your mother is being taken care of at a beautiful new place , she has what she needs . I had a smart friend that told me I didn’t have to give my mother what she wants ( which was for me to come everyday to berate me ) just make sure she has what she needs. Which your mother has at her new home . If you need to bring her something you can drop it off with a staff member to bring to her. My mother used to sit by the front door waiting to ambush me . So I used to call the front desk and they would send someone out to take items from me and they would put them in my mother’s room .
When she starts with trying to pit you against your brother , you play dumb when you can . “I didn’t know anything about that “. Don’t bring up the dementia , there is no point . Be prepared for the dementia to be fueling her behaviors even more . She has no filter left . That’s what the doctor told me about my Mom
Your Mom is not living with you . Get back to living your life. Do you have friends where you live now ? Or would you want to move back to where you were living before ??
I had trouble restarting my own life after placing my diagnosed narcissistic dementia stricken mother in assisted living . I forgot how to live my own life . My life had revolved around my mother for so long, she had had a stroke years earlier . I was limiting visits because she was so toxic . I read up on narcissism , setting boundaries .
My sister told me I did more for my mother than I had to. My sister had gone to very limited contact with my mother for years . She was very helpful in convincing me that it was OK to rebuild my life and not feel guilty about it no matter how much my mother told me that I “ dumped her”. My sister told me that making my mother happy isn’t my job , it should not have been my job ever and I had spent years trying to do that with no results .
HAVING YOUR MOM PLACED IS THE
FREEDOM YOU DESERVE.
You are not responsible for your mother’s happiness , nor will anything you do make her happy.
See your primary doctor for checkup if you haven’t . Take care of yourself.
Try a therapist . It wasn’t for me for very long , talking about it face to face with a stranger made me more upset . I hand wrote most of my feelings on paper , I would then burn them in the fireplace .
I did better just reading on my own, figuring out what helped me. I still have an anxiety disorder , I still journal on my own. I wrote letters to my mother ( that I never gave her ) just to get my feelings out . I’m starting to write letters to my children for them to find and read when I am gone .
Go on a vacation , have a “me “ day at the mall or a spa .
How about a hobby ?
Whine to us here. It’s anonymous ,
Theres nothing you can do to make her happy. Her mind is broken. There is no cure or treatment that does anything much.
Denial is also a big part of dementia.
Quit beating yourself up and learn to live with your mom as she is. She is unable to change. Now, if she is abusive, you nor your brother have to see her.
However if you do see her, you just have to basically agree with whatever she says, try to redirect the conversation or leave.
It’s so sad because you want things to go smoothly, but dementia just doesn’t work like that. She can’t get better…you and your brother have to get more tolerant or avoid her. I know that’s not what you want to hear, but it’s the truth.
But in the 3 days before I could get her to cooperate enough to get her there, I was yelled at the top of her lung, repeatedly, that I was a disappointment, a liar, a b*tch, all because “I want to go home” “don’t you understand!?!”. She has hearing loss, vision loss, mild cognitive impairment, memory loss, trouble walking, osteoporosis, hypertension…
She went so far as to leave the house when I wasn’t aware (1st time for that) walk down the street to cross the busy street to the high school on the other side and ask the boys in the gym parking lot to call the police for her help to have them come take her home. The officer that came was a very polite compassionate individual and I know how much they dislike handling these types of situations.
He was given all the POA paperwork and tried to convince mom that she should let me take care of her and if she leaves the house again without telling me, she would be a missing person.
Anyway I’m in the same boat as many on here. I’m working on getting some respite care for myself, mostly because I don’t like the person I am becoming without the help, and I’ve only been at this six months since bringing her into my life/home/world. She had planned for at least the last 10 years that my husband and I would move into her house to take care of her. We repeatedly told her that we did not want to move back to SoCal.
She could never understand why and would not accept our answer.
So it has finally come to her being with us or go to a facility. That will be the next step, but for now we will continue to work to keep her here. I left her home at 18 and I’m 66 now. I love my mom, but I can’t say we have been friends too much of the time. She was a taskmaster with my father until she divorced him and her 4 children. We remember her saying “I don’t like your attitude”, and “who promised you a rose garden?” When she starts to complain to me about wanting to go home, I remember her words. We don’t have other options, my sister died 6 years ago, my brothers aren’t in a position to help and I’m the oldest. TaDa, that’s me, the responsible one!
I’ve read so many of the post here, my mother looks like the poster child of this site for the uncooperative dementia patient. I appreciate the advice, encouragement, and loving support I get from special folks here. Ya’ll know who those people are!
All we can do is keep on keeping on, pray and LISTEN for when the LORD sends us an angel and answers. He sent me both yesterday. Praising Him!
My husband and I have a saying we heard, have come to live by and it often;
” This sucks, Praise Yah!”
Here is the bottom line. No walking on eggshells or worrying about upsetting mom. Mom doesn’t care about upsetting you or brother. You can’t make her happy. Sounds like she’s never been happy.
She can’t execute on any wild idea she has about moving. Who’s going to find her a new place and pack her and physically move her stuff? Not you and not your brother. You actually have more power than you realize. You both do. I tell my Mom every time I talk to her, which isn’t often anymore because it’s awful, “I’m not the audience for you to bash brother.” “I see this differently and am not going to have this conversation with you.” Then you hang up. It’s not your (or your brothers) problem to solve. It’s her problem to solve. You do not have to attend every argument you are invited to. You don’t have to call her. You don’t have to answer the phone. What’s she going to do - call the police and tell them you won’t answer her calls? Not a thing. Do not let her rob you of more of your life. There’s no upside. None. Only you can make this stop by not engaging and not allowing her to be awful to you.
Some things are unfixable. Including but not limited to ugly personality traits and disorders, depression, gossiping, bad mouthing others, chronic complaining, insisting on blaming others for all of our OWN mistakes, refusing to take responsibility for actions, lying, Confabulating stories to make others look bad and ourselves look good, inflated ego and pride, and on and on. To think WE can fix these women is delusional. Period.
So we get them into AL and visit on OUR TERMS and that's that. We reconcile the fact we were short changed in the mother department and oh well, we're doing what we can to survive. We keep the toxic phone calls short and say OH There's The Doorbell when the complaining we can't fix ramps up. And we leave their presence when it ramps up in person or the sharp claws come out to scratch or the fangs to bite.
Self protection is the key here, not "fixing" a situation too broken to BE fixed. Or hearing from others to force "positivity" on such a negative situation that it's downright insulting, minimizing your predicament 100%.
I'm sorry you're here in the first place, with others in the same boat. Wishing you the best of luck taking care of YOU now and letting the AL take care of MOM.
It is not the OP’s responsibility to do what you are suggesting.
I can guarantee that someone who has been negative all of their lives will not suddenly change because others are foolishly ‘feeding them positivity.’
The OP is living in the real world, not a fantasy world.
The seed to feel incontrovertible is increased as a person recognizes he or she is being controlled by the child they were, for years, in control of abd that death is in their future.
TRyan reminding her of the time of joy and how secure she made your life, even if that fact is not true.
Your objective is to improve your ability to care for her and her lack of trust is impeding that goal so exergating the truth is a useful tool to show you are her advocate not an advsery.
Ask God for the words of comforting security.
negative/toxic/abusive/triangulating people (like OP's mother, who by the way was probably always like that) don't behave that way, because of something LACKING in OP's behavior ---- like if only OP would say more loving words, if only OP would reassure her mother more, if only OP would give more words of comforting security, if only OP would...
OP is already doing all that. she's loving, caring, sweet.
it doesn't matter what OP does or says.
OP's mother's behavior is not because of that.
toxic people behave that way because they enjoy it. they get a kick out of making other people miserable. in fact, they would love to make you even more miserable than they are.
and it will NEVER stop.
you can hang up, you can have less contact...
the abuse will always come back.
they get a kick out of kicking you.
it's crazy to see how many nasty, elderly mothers rob their sweet, caring daughters of their time, energy, positivity...
all that time spent on reading up on narcs, on figuring out how to dodge hurtful words...
all that time spent with one's mind remembering those hurtful words, again and again...
these mothers rob their sweet daughters of - so - much time.
So please do not take anything personal, despite the level of hurt it causes you or your brother. Let the professionals take care of her, she is in good hands. Limit your calls and interactions, know when to leave or hang up. It was hard for me, but I have to do this for my own metal health. I wish you peace and more fulfillment in yourself. (And for your brother too)
I had to chuckle when I read your answer. If only.
All her threats of moving out will go no where so ignore them. Unless she is capable of picking a new place, doing all the paperwork, packing herself up and going she has no choice but to stay where she is.
There is nothing you can do except set some boundaries, limiting and shortening visits & getting off the phone when she starts like you have been.
My mom delighted in creating conflict between me and my sister. At present since her funeral we have no communication. We both tried so hard to make her happy. Due to her being bedridden we had to move her to a nursing home, two days later she died.
It was exhausting and according to my doctor the stress brought on
my stroke. Do not let her ruin your health.
Marymo67, I hope you manage to find a way of coping too - I had counselling and anti-anxiety meds, and tried to set boundaries. It's truly saddening how many old ladies there are like this.
She addicted to her negativity and the drama that it causes. It's her addiction. Let her have it. You can't fix her.
Stop listening to her negativity. Not for one minute, much less for hours.
Please don't let her triangulate you and your brother. When she starts in on him, hang up - refuse to listen. Same when she starts in on you. Hang up - refuse to listen.
And don't accept false guilt for setting the boundaries.
Peace
You need to find ways to set boundaries and to take care of yourself! There is no pleasing these individuals, ever. There is no way to fix them, so you have to work on protecting yourself, your mental health.
The guilt tripping; pitting one sibling against the other; pulling in flying monkeys to do their bidding; irrational behaviors; grandiose fantasies and lying; the highly critical, invalidating and dehumanizing things they say (aka emotional and verbal abuse); only gets worse with aging as they loose their ability to maintain their false selves and loose their ability to get the admiration (supply) they need. Dementia sadly can make it all much worse.
I first had to to low contact and "grey rock" when having any interaction with my mom. She is 86, has a host of medical issues, cannot walk more than 5 feet, has dementia and has been in a nursing home for almost 3 years. The outburst were too much for me to even be in her room for more than 20 minutes. I finally went no contact as I just could not be in the same room with her, on the phone or to have any interactions. Her rage was just too much for me. (Long story on my profile about this life long experience of having a narcissist mother, not fun)....
Here are some videos you might find helpful. These three psychologists post lots of videos -- not all focused on elderly folks w/dementia high in narcissist personality traits.
Best of luck with this! I hope you can finds ways to separate, go grey rock, set boundaries, and take other steps to protect you and your mental health. This is very hard and not an easy journey.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8K8iyiN-HQ&t=764s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJMzDBJssGA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojLNKN-KNF8
Believe me when I say "I understand"!