What have you learned about protecting assets?

I was only posing scenarios that might come up. I do not profess to know a whole lot about all the ins and outs of Medicare and Medicaid, and personally hope we never NEED Medicaid, for her, me, anyone in the family! Just because it is "free" money doesn't mean you get your money's worth...

To answer your questions - No, she still has Medicare (not sure anyone CAN cancel it, except on death?), but it only covers so much. I did a look up what Medicare pays for SNF:

Your costs in Original Medicare
You pay:
Days 1–20: $0 for each benefit period.
Days 21–100: $164.50 coinsurance per day of each benefit period.
Days 101 and beyond: all costs.

For that period of Day 21 - 100 it totals $13,000!!!
THEN, after day 101, the patient pays for it all!
ALSO, this requires a minimum 3 day stay IN hospital - if not, they DO NOT PAY.

She also has another insurance policy, but typically those also only cover so much for a specific time as well, especially when they figure in Medicare co-costs. Other people might not have that secondary insurance (remember, insurance is all about PROFITs too, they will nickel and dime you whenever they can.)

As to the question about paying for your own home while away (vaca, hospital, etc), sure, one would in ALL these circumstances. However THAT home does NOT cost over $7300 per MONTH (I've read comments in these forums that talk about $12,000/month!) For the record, the trust IS ALSO paying those "home" costs, as the condo she was living in 25+ years is still under the living trust and taxes, condo fees, utilities and insurance must be paid for.

So, leaving out the condo, just consider the cost for the AL facility (7300+/m) plus the $13000 "copay" for about 3 months in the SNF, even more if the stay is longer, this is going to put a huge crimp on what those "protected assets" are going to cover for ANYONE, now and in the future That is assuming they can even afford to maintain the AL costs in addition to the SNF costs. Unprotected, you have no access to any Medicaid for X months until ALL assets are sucked dry. Then what? You get better, get out of SNF and have nothing left and nowhere to go.

My thoughts also drifted into hospice - from what I see on Medicare, they DO NOT PAY for a room/place, just pallitive care. Once whoever needs REAL nursing care, aka hospice, you would have to move to a nursing home, or go home to 24/7 care. Both of these can become very expensive over time (granted the AL costs are gone now). We do not come with expiration dates stamped on us, so that hospice could go on for a long long time. If the home is not "protected", it might be lost in the shuffle of $$$. In the end, your loved one could end up with nothing and no way to pay for the remaining care/place needed. WE are trying to preserve what she has NOW so as to ensure there might be enough left to get her the care WE deem satisfactory.

Disgustedtoo
I'm confused about your comment on paying for both hospital/rehab and ALF.
Your mom didn't give up her Medicare insurance when she went into AL? Right?? So she would still have coverage for medical bills. When she got better she would go back home to ALF. ALF is like her personal home. You have to keep paying your home expenses whether you are in the hospital or not. Right? Perhaps I misunderstood your point but I can't see how you would be paying double by continuing to pay for the Memory care/ALF that you are currently private paying for from her own funds held in trust and her insurance was paying her hospital/rehab stay. After all, she would be tying up that space while she was away just the same as if she were there. Just like an apartment or a home. Those bills go in spite of whether we are on vacation, in the hospital or visiting friends. Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant.

Candee:  Set up your financial portfolio. Include in it long-term care. Yes, give to charitable oorganizations as it benefits your tax liability. Consider your RMD when you turn 70 and 1/2 years of age. Find other ways to supplemental your monthly outgoing cash, e.g. use savings apps like "Ibotta," "Walmart Savings Catcher," "BevRAGE," "Hip2Save and "AARP" for starters.

I have since read a few more threads about this divisive topic. Here is something those threads got me thinking about (note my post above - we did the asset "protection" for specific reasons, NOT to cheat the system or to ensure inheritance!):

Our mother is currently in a private pay memory care facility (NOT cheap!) being funded by those assets we 'protected' in a trust fund. IF something were to happen to her requiring first hospitalization and then rehab, we would HAVE to continue making payments on her room at the AL facility in order to ensure she had a place to return to if rehab was successful...
Soooo, based on the comments saying we would be *cheating* the system, HOW I ask you all would we ever be able to pay for BOTH without help from Medicare and/or Medicaid? I also think this would apply for any married couple if one had to be placed in AL and then had an accident, temporarily putting him or her into rehab NH.

Those scenarios alone would destitute not just the one currently incapacitated but the spouse as well! Unless you are independently wealthy, it makes sense to use the LAWS set up for this to your advantage. Not everyone who uses these protections are out to cheat Medicare or Medicaid (you want to find a way to fund these, go look up the current insurance scam - for want of a better word - bilking the Medicare system of billions: search for Medicare Advantage Money Grab, three part article on publicintegrity.org This is an eye-opener! Spread the word, especially among seniors to stop them from this free useless home exam AND your congressional senators and representatives - it is noted in one of the three that congress was prepared to stop this, but was LOBBIED, backed down AND some reps are even pocketing campaign contributions from these same insurance companies!!!!)

You must plan ahead. You, yourself, are financially responsible for your own care.

Candee's question is not about bilking the system, but how to prepare for whatever life is going to throw at us. It is always better to ask and be informed!!!

Just prior to my dad needing help, we got mom to an elder care attorney who set up everything - will, medical directives, moving funds to a trust, changing ownership of the condo to mom, etc. He did end up in a nursing home, which did take his pension and SS in payment, so it isn't FREE, but the prep work protected the other assets (as noted by some, there are exceptions to what Medicaid can touch, like the one car she would need and half ownership of the home - which was now actually "protected"). This was NOT in any way intended to cheat the system, but rather to protect hard-earned savings for their benefit. Had we not done this, half of everything would have been gone, whether using a private pay or Medicaid and now there would not be enough to care for her without going that Medicaid route. Six of one, half a dozen of the other!!

I only skimmed some of the responses, which seemed polarized - some think this is bilking the system, others are aware of wanting to protect assets for good reason.

Given a choice, there was no way I would have put either of our parents into a Medicaid paid nursing home. Paid by Medicaid or not (or in his case partially and his payment was HUGE because of his pension), we did not feel this was an appropriate place and don't feel that they were properly taking care of him for what they were getting paid. Many nursing homes are understaffed and underpaid, and less than desirable workers, so you are NOT necessarily getting good care for the amount you are coughing up, Medicaid or not. To be fair, there are probably some better ones out there, but personally I do not see that with nursing homes, and for-profit places are going to cut corners too, so they make their profits!

LTC is something I only recently became aware of when I was still working, but everything I've read about it, it seems like it is a huge hassle, and sometimes you do not really get all that you paid into it. Shopping around might get a "good" one, but these do need to be planned for long before they are needed.

Once we realized mom was starting down the dementia path - still functional, but definitely headed into it, we revisited the elder care attorney and "protected" HER assets. THIS has allowed us to place her in a NICE not-for-profit memory care facility and PAY for it with her assets. NO Medicaid involved. IF/WHEN she regresses to the point that we need to consider a nursing home, we will cross that bridge, but for now HER assets are taking care of her (these places generally do not use Medicaid). Given the expense now that HER assets are paying for, would we feel we were cheating the Medicaid system later should we need to go that route? Nope. They will still get her SS AND the pension (from dad), which is a good chunk of money!

There are still issues (paperwork, etc) that I am working on, but I have already decided that once I can focus on it, I plan to do the same for myself before I might become incompetent so that my kids do not have to scramble to get this set up.

IF and ONLY if there is anything left after mom passes, we would inherit anything left, but that is NOT the goal (for me anyway, cannot speak for my brothers.) Nice to inherit anything left, but with the condo and assets in a trust, it is merely protected and handled by us, but is still being held in trust for HER benefit. Had we not done this, we still could have used the money to pay for her current facility, but if she regressed too much and had to move to a nursing home, ALL of those assets would have to be used up before any Medicaid could be accessed (since dad is gone, there would be no retention of anything.)

To Candee:
If your parents are still competent, I would highly recommend you find a good elder care attorney and set this all up NOW. You need to have DPOA, and if possible get yourself as joint on their bank accounts (many people are discovering that often banks balk at the DPOA, which they should not be doing.)

If their current income cannot cover their current living expenses, the trust can be set up to provide the extra funds needed (note - we found out after the fact that the trust fund should be paying the RE taxes, condo fees, insurance directly, not through mom's account - that is being handled NOW!) If their income is sufficient, placing the trust funds with a good financial service can help "grow" those funds so that there might be enough to cover a decent facility, if and/or when that time comes.

Also, there are special forms for federal entities (SS, IRS, VA) that can/should be done while setting this all up. They do not accept DPOA (see this: https://www.agingcare.com/articles/Make-Sure-You-Are-an-Authorized-Representative-for-Your-Loved-One-202376.htm) Understandable why, but it is just another huge hurdle for us to get over, since she is not considered 'competent' at this point.

In mom's case, without considering "gains" in the trust or increases in the monthly fee, her trust can cover about 9 years, more if we get approved for VA benefit. If need be, the condo can be sold to cover more, should she continue on (she will be 94 in August)... and outlive we the kids!! :-D

So, this is an important topic and should not be summarily dismissed as cheating the system. The laws were set up to protect our seniors, so USE them.

I do hear you about there nothing being wrong with ascertaining what the law allows and doesn't allow. Health care is expensive, and long term care is quite a system (don't even get me going). And it is devastating to see one's assets being totally used right at the end of life. It seems entirely off-center to me that savers are penalized for saving. But my take on the issue is entirely different.

This country can't get itself to digest the larger issue----either we want as a society to pay for the care our elders need or we don't. You can't say out of one side of your mouth that your expenses should be shifted to taxpayers, but if someone suggests that taxes should be higher to offset that cost, they should be accused of treason. Is it okay for the rich to use tax loopholes not to pay their fair share? It might be legal, but it's not right. Frankly, I make a fairly good income and other than my mortgage interest, I have no shelters---I pay a ton in taxes.

And even more frankly, I think we should all pay more taxes so that everyone (rich and poor) has access to home-health, assisted living and nursing home care without having to go through a means-based program like Medicaid. I have spent the last eight years caring for my parents in my home, using my children and husband as care takers. And not because they didn't have means---they had plenty of money. I just didn't have the heart to place them into a care facility until I absolutely had to. I'm lucky that they can afford the care, at least for the next few years. If we are not going to swallow more taxes, I think that the Community Spouse Resource Allowance & Medicaid Estate Recovery provisions are more than a fair way for folks to keep their homes and maintain their existence during their lifetimes.

During this past year I've been seeing a talk therapist. Her clients are senior citizens only.

During one discussion we were talking about health care, and she said so many of her clients are terrified that Medicaid [not Medicare] would be cut, as her clients either have very elder parents who are residing in nursing homes using Medicaid, or her clients are seeing down the road where they don't have enough money to private pay, and what if Medicaid is reduced.

And the media isn't paying that much attention to the seniors and what would happen to them. Sadly not everyone had saved for those "rainy days".  Come on AARP, put some ads on TV as a wake-up call before it gets out of control, unless they are waiting to see what the U.S. Senate provides. 

Yes, it is a stick shock of the cost of aging here in the States. When I priced out Independent Living/Assisted Living for my Dad, and long-term care for my Mom, I was a deer in headlights.

Unless others have been in our shoes caregiving, they have zero idea what it is like and the huge cost involved.

To all of you who have deeply held positions about what is right and wrong as well as paying your own way vs relying on Medicaid, I suggest that you start reading the Congressional Budget Office's anALYSES as well A Washington Post's discussion on the long-term outlook for Medicaid and Social Security. if you don't understand what you read, send me a private message and I will attempt to break it down into clearer language.
As a business owner, I see firsthand when families don't have sufficient financial resources to care for their loved ones.
Quite bitching about how wealthy people benefit from the tax laws. You can't do anything about those provisions. However, many of you can get more serious about saving for your advanced years.
I apologize in advance for offending people.

When my long-time friends developed dementia and memory issues, they made me their POA for their finances and health care. When they could no longer live on their own, I found a high quality, comfortable memory care apartment for them. The AL living facility told me that after 18 months of regular care payments, should my friends run out of money, they would accept whatever public financing there was. My friends had saved a lot, bought long term care insurance, had a paid up condo and IRAs. With no children and no close relatives, it was only a trusted friend they could turn to. I am learning the ropes with the long term care insurance and their investments and things have gone smoothly. We are past the 18 months now and I can see my way for payments for 2+ more years yet. Their pensions and social security have not stopped, so I take about half the monthly costs from their checking and savings and occasionally the RMD in their IRAs. Because their care costs are so high, whatever tax is withheld from the IRAs as I use them ends up being returned at tax time. My friend is also a vet and when he becomes poor enough, will be eligible for those benefits. I am also the executor of their will and so I know what to do with any left over money. I am trying to find the most charitable way to dispose of their belongings, confident they would agree to this line of thinking and I make sure not one penny ever comes to me, even for legitimate reimbursement costs--like gas mileage. I have enough income from retirement to not sweat the small stuff and I am not doing this to make money--only to serve my friends. We may never get to need medicaid or the VA benefits, but I am relieved they are there should my friend live long enough. He is physically healthy at age 91 so it could happen. I don't discuss his finances with him nor does he ever ask. I am just happy that he is happy and likes his memory care apartment and the new friends he has meals with. This shows how things could work out with planning ahead re: savings, IRAs, pensions and long term care insurance. My wife and I don't have that insurance but are now looking in to it to see if we even qualify and how much it would cost. I never realized how expensive this care is and assumed we could pay for it out of pocket with our retirement income. We might be able to pay about half at today's costs--which was a surprise to me. We would like to have an estate to pass on to our son and grandchildren to help with college costs, etc., so the LTC insurance could help make that happen, if it is not too expensive.

I am a widow, my husband had little left when he passed from Cancer 25 years ago. I worked all my life and from day one made up an extremely strict budget from which I refused to deviate. If I had an emergency, somehow I found a way to handle it. I did'nt have the mega-salary but I did save as best I could for the future. Then my life changed when I became disabled. I had to go into assisted living because I could no longer walk. It was expensive and little by little, the money was used up. My advice to people is this: (1) save for the future and plan and budget accordingly; (2) while you still are able to do so, do all the special things you want to do. Don't plan on "tomorrow" as tomorrow may be very different. Then your conscience will be clear. Medicaid will take your funds but that is how the system is set up - to help those who can't help themselves. I hoped this clarifies a few questions.

freqflyer---Do you honestly think that there are multi-millionaires out there that are actually paying their fair share into the Medicaid system? Multi-millionaires utilize the services of financial advisors just so they can save the money they've earned & not be taxed to the hilt on all of it. One way they hide money away is to form shell corporations that hold money for them so it is not taxed at the same rate they are taxed. Real estate corporations, restaurants, "non-profits"----all of these corporations protect assets. All multi-millionaires utilize these methods & then when they require care as they get older, they don't have to go on Medicaid and can pay for their healthcare with the money that was stashed away. That is the difference between people that have money & people that don't have money---people that have to go on Medicaid usually end up in lesser quality long term care facilities, while people that have money pay for people to care for them in their home for as long as possible & then when they become too ill to stay at home, they can pay for a private room in a plush long term care facility that only accepts private pay patients. Why should the wealthy folks pay into the Medicaid system if they're never going to use it?

The "American Dream" is no longer something to strive for, because what's the sense in working hard, buying property/houses & having money/investments if the government is going to take it all away to pay for Medicaid? My advice to anybody is to utilize all of your assets to pay for care in your home---if you have money, spend it. If you have a house or houses or property, take out a reverse mortgage & use the money to pay someone to take care of you in your own home. When all of that money is tapped out, you can then apply for Medicaid & go into a nursing home. Why let the government have unencumbered assets & a home that is free & clear? Use your assets for yourself. As long as you can prove that you spent the money on yourself, you've got no problems. If you're still well enough, go on vacations, take some cruises, do some house renovations. Spend that money DOWN DOWN DOWN. Enjoy your money/assets---you worked very hard to get them!!!

Here are a few observations about part of the asset preserving strategy that primarily involves getting Medicaid to pay for all or part of care. Save all that you want for your heirs, but remember:
1. Not all doctors take Medicaid. Not all doctors take Medicare. As both programs are reducing payments to providers, more and more doctors, therapists, etc. may opt-OUT of providing care to people on those programs. Lowest cost bidder is usually Medicaid provider in your area. My MIL is unable to find a good neurologist in her small city in Texas, and is looking at having to travel 70 miles each way to get better Parkinson's care. And the new neurologist has a 15 person waiting list - you only move up when somebody "leaves the practice" - i.e. dies or NH. Long wait with degenerative disease.
2. Your options for a Medicaid bed in a facility that you like, that "looks nice", is close to family or current neighborhood, or has openings when you need the care may be limited. Under the current proposed federal budget, there may not be Medicaid beds AT ALL in many facilities, including assisted living or other Medicaid waiver options. Make nice with your kiddos or check out your options before you need them.
3. I agree that preserving assets or making them last longer so that you have better options for care over the long term is an excellent idea. Planning to live for 20-30 years on your assets upon retirement and still be able to leave property to heirs? my lawyer's joking response to the best planning strategies to preserve assets was "don't get sick! OR die young with lots of paid-up whole life insurance OR get born to rich parents."
4. Your best resources include an elder care lawyer experienced with Medicaid in YOUR state, the documents in place like will, etc, family discussion of care needs and a real understanding of the cost of aging. But remember the analogy Mr. Heiser mentions: As with tax planning, strategies only survive the current legislative cycle as anything can change - many tax strategies didn't survive the budget reconciliations of recent years. And social security file and suspend loopholes are closed. Many of the Medicaid planning strategies will require a crystal ball or "wayback" time machine to implement 10 years in advance. Who knows what social programs will get funded in the current administration? Live cheaply, my friends.

I hope there is a dollar limit when it comes to how much of someone's assets can be protected. I wouldn't want to pay for a super wealthy person to be on Medicaid in a nursing home when they have millions or billions in assets. I know chances are they wouldn't take that route, but it still makes me wonder.

Thank you all so much for the answers thus far, especially those that interpreted the question in the spirit in which it was intended.

There is some excellent information here! Websites I've never seen and thoughts I never would've come up with.

Again, thank you for sharing :)

Many people have moral and political beliefs about asset protection, but you must do what is best for your family. As an owner of a caregiving business, I know that money is power when it comes to caregiving.
If you have substantial assets, in addition to your home, then you should consult a certified elder law attorney who knows about asset protection. It is possible to shelter your assets, but you need a knowledgeable attorney to do so. See www.nelf.org

As an attorney who has for 25 years advised people in your exact situation, I am quite sympathetic. The laws and regulations are complex and confusing, with variations from state to state. My suggestion would be to get a copy of my book, How to Protect Your Family's Assets from Devastating Nursing Home Costs: Medicaid Secrets and then post on this forum again with any further questions.

I notice a large number of responses here that want to castigate anyone who wishes to avail themselves of the laws and perhaps save some of their hard-earned life savings for "extras" in their old age or even to pass on to the next generation. Would they take such a harsh position were you to ask them for tax advice to save taxes? In both cases you are (i) taking advantage of clearly legal options to save money and (ii) shifting costs to other taxpayers. Of course, you are free to pay more taxes than you are legally required to do, just as you are free to pay every dime of your life savings to nursing homes when there are legal ways to protect your assets (which is the point of my book!). Only you can decide which route to follow.

Mu husband's expensive care is sucking up all our savings, leaving nothing for me but Medicare. Hopefully it will still be there when I need it

I haven't given it much though lately but I do want to buy LTC insurance in the future. I'd like to be able to leave something for my children if possible. I'm 41 now and have been busy the last few years worrying about my MIL's declining health. I don't want my children to have to quit their jobs to take care of me. I currently am not working outside the home but intend to go back into the workforce when my older child is old enough to watch my younger one when they're not in school. So hopefully I'll be able to put some money away and afford a LTC insurance policy.  As far as protecting assets, I really don't know.  Maybe an irrevocable trust?  My husband and I will probably need to make a trip to the lawyer's office in the future for that.

Regarding LTC insurance: The claims process is elaborate and lengthy. There are lots of forms and lots of leg work to do (phone calls, dropping off forms and picking them up, etc.) You will need to have someone designated to handle the paperwork for you when the day comes that it's needed. My parents have a top notch policy they've been paying on for 18 years. It only covers 80% of the cost of the ALF room. Therefore, my parents' assets will still be drained, just a little more slowly. In the meantime I've got two friends who have placed their mothers in ALFs on Medicaid recently and report that it was a relatively easy process, and all costs are paid, no worries.

Everyone should be learning what to do for themselves. I've been dealing with my parents' affairs for seven years. The following is a must for them and for yourself to take the burden off your children.
Will
POA, medical and durable
Living will
Then, put property into trust. Must be done five years before any need arises. It doesn't cost that much to do.
Make a list of every asset, every asset!!!
Put your POA on every account you have including utilities. They can't even pay your light bill without a POA.
Assign your POA as POD (pay on death) on your bank accounts. If you don't, the money goes to probate and they can't pay the bills.
Put the POA on your social security as payee. This means they can monitor your Medicare and stop payments upon your death.
Make a list of all accounts and include passwords for those paid automatically. Include magazine subscriptions etc, everything that will use up funds.
Safe deposit boxes, all insurance papers, stocks, bonds, annuities. All of it.
Tell your family who is in charge and why. With their willingness to take on the duties, of course. Include any financial compensation in the conversation.
My list includes over 50 items that may apply including family pets. Start with the most crucial listed here.

Well, I for one never ever give anyone access to your bank account, even under pressure. Anyone who pressures you does not belong in your life nor does any business who demands access to your bank account for payment deserve your business.

Another thing you can do one protecting money is to not carry cash at all, not one cent. Keep it all in the bank and even open an able account that's newly available to people on federal benefits. Be wary though if you're on Medicaid because of something happens to you they can grab your able account funds. What you can do to stop this from happening is periodically withdraw some money to pay some bills or get a car or something those funds were intended to cover. Another smart move is to make a preneed with your favorite funeral home and instead of paying the funeral home directly in case they go under is to pay on a preneed policy to an insurance company who provides those policies but make the funeral home the owner of the policy if you're on Medicaid.

Another smart move is to cover your assets in a legal will. A POD account is another smart move but make sure whatever moves you make you have a beneficiary somewhere especially on a life insurance policy. You want to do this while your competent and don't do it if you have dementia or Alzheimer's when you're not competent to make those decisions. A POD account is another smart move but make sure whatever moves you make you have a beneficiary somewhere especially on a life insurance policy. You want to do this while your competent and don't do it if you have dementia or Alzheimer's when you're not competent to make those decisions.

Be very wary after losing a spouse. I read somewhere that vultures often read the obits to see who lost someone and who they can target for personal gain. They also tend to drive around and scan the neighborhoods looking for signs of people in need of a little extra help. It's one thing to need extra help, another for people to take advantage of you so be very careful.

Have all of your affairs in order before you actually start needing help, because you never know who your caregivers will actually be. They may appear to be one way to you, when really they are actually a totally different person.

Do background checks on any potential caregiver you may need. Get as much personal info from them as absolutely possible and find out as much as you can about them before letting them into your life. One thing I found out is someone who knew my bio dad actually had eight different cases against her from the Department of taxes. I accidentally stumbled across this on the public record for that area where my dad lived because I currently have a pending estate where I have fiduciary duties and I just so happened to have found out someone may have taken advantage of my dad.

Be very careful before you reach a stage in your life where you become vulnerable because if you don't have all of your ducks in a row before then, you're sitting duck for vultures

Uneekguy, just saw your post! Very well summarized!
Question: What long term insurance company did your parents use? I'm looking into it for myself.

After dealing with my mother who was in nursing home care and watched my fathers hard earned money vanish for bills and care because he has too much to qualify for Medicaid. I am in my 50's and am going to enjoy life I have a good job but I am going to enjoy and not worry about the future if I get into my 80's and help so be it I will use Medicaid. There are so many people on Medicaid who have not worked a day in there life or very little and enjoy life to the fullest they have bills paid food on there table and health care is taken care of free of charge. So I must ask myself as I go off to work what is the point. Enjoy life and if you run out of money let Medicaid take care of you at least you work for it.

Current law as I understand it is that if one applies for Medicaid, then there is a five year lookback to see if any assets have been gifted to or otherwise transferred to others, family or not, as a part of qualifying....

Grace + Peace,

Bob

uneekguy, THANK YOU! Your answer and information is exactly what i expected from the original post....

Excellent question!! A lifetime of hard earned money can disappear overnight!
I guess I feel differently than others here. I'm certainly willing to pay for my healthcare. And I don't have children, but if I did I'd want my years of work to not only go to healthcare, but also allow me to be able to leave something to help them in their future. Doing both needs planning.
If you can, spend a bit of money and get an estate lawyer to discuss your situation. You might be able to transfer ownership of your house to your children in advance, or give annual monetary gifts up to a certain amount to your children.
There is also long term care insurance, which actually is something I'm looking into now for myself. Some recommend it, others suggest putting the money you would have put towards LTC insurance premiums and put it in a separate account for future healthcare use.
Good luck!

At 50, I've decided to stop flogging myself to earn extra money to save for the future. I worked to the exclusion of everything else in my 30s and 40s and socked away money for retirement. Life's too short. I'm going to enjoy my 50s and 60s. If I run out of money at 80 so be it. I'm not going to work myself to death in my 50s just so I can be sitting on a pile of cash at 90. Health is waaaay more important than wealth, IMO.

Well, it seems to me the days of inheriting anything from our parents are gone - unless they are exceptionally wealthy. If they require public assistance, they can't have a fat account somewhere with money squirreled away. Our parents are living longer and at the rate in which they're going to be entering the "senior" demographic, there is not going to be enough public funding to carry this weight once they drain their own accounts - so if it seems bad to have to spend down to next to nothing now, I imagine it will get way worse - not sure where those dollars are going to come from...

Wow! this took a turn real quick. I think it’s an Excellent question.
Let me share real quick. My parents worked hard from age 16 – 70. Paid their taxes and into the system. Purchased Longterm care (thank God) Put hard earned money into Their Retirement.
Their 3 kids (I’m 1 of them) also worked hard and Mom and dad “planned” to pass along their worth to the kids when they passed. They owned 2 homes outright and a fair amount of savings.
That’s 104 Years combined of hard work, Sacrifices & Savings – LET T THAT SINK IN FOR A MINUTE ! {insert Jeopardy music here} https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usVaPekFpbg
OK – 70 yo Dad had early onset Alzheimer’s and mom left her P/T job to care for Dad. Then Mom had a stroke. I left my career up north and moved to FL to care for them both. They had the “foresight” to have a trust.
Thankfully, They had the savings and the LTC insurance that gave me the means to care for them in Their Own Home with Love and Compassion. Had they not, They would have been in the “System” for the last seven years with what I am to understand is not very compassionate care.
And IMHO and also with first hand knowledge of others , Their LIFES savings would have been exhausted in 3 years. And had they not had the trust, Those 2 homes would have been gone …. Poof !
Also in my experience and 1st hand knowledge , the “system” would have diminished not only their life expectancy, but their quality of life.
Coincidence or not, I see people in the system diminish in direct proportion to their Available funds. You make your own conclusions but that’s mine.

Nowhere in the original question did I hear about “cheating” the system. Nor did I get the impression that it was geared towards the Very Wealthy – the Multi Millionaires.
Besides, The multi millionaires most likely handle caring for their elders entirely different .

The question I heard was geared more to people in MY Situation or maybe less fortunate.
In other words, “HOW NOT TO FALL INTO POVERTY WHEN AN ELDER FALLS ILL”

This Site is an invaluable resource for that question: As much as I don’t like attorneys, They are a necessary evil (no insult intended) to accomplish the goal of that question.
Medicaid has rules . I repeat : Medicaid has rules . And they change often. The rules are specifically designed to stop people from cheating as the 2nd poster so happily posted.
And an attorney – SPECIFICALLY an Elder Law Attorney can help navigate those rules. It’s Not Cheating if you follow the rules.

End of my story : My Parents got the best care available in Their Own Home from their own children. It was because of the Trust and the LTC that I was able to do this for them. 7 years later and the funds are almost exhausted .
Had they not had the trust, for me to draw upon the assets, they would have been in the system Sucking Up all your tax dollars with unsatisfactory care.
We [ I ] had a choice 7 years ago. I could have put them into the system and benefited from the trust which contained both their homes and a substantial amount of the retirement and savings and gone my merry way.
But I choose to care for them as they deserved and also planed for financially .
Note: They did NOT intend to burden me with caregiving. That was My Choice. Their intention was to provide the finances for me to hire out quality care.

Believe you /me…. Had they entered the system, The System would have spent far more $ on them then their assets provided back. And provide FAR FAR FAR less care . I’d hypothesize that 80% of the $ spent would have been wasted. Ya know, $25 for a band-aid , Wheel Chair invoice for $825 (I get them from amazon for 100 bucks), $2,000 for un-neccesary x-rays and God only knows how much $ for a 3 minute visit from a doctor.

So the answer to the question is really two-fold. 1) How to Protect The Assets from Medicaid 2) the intended consequences: How protecting the assets Benefits ALL. Including the tax payer .

Don’t mis-interpret my post to put down Medicaid: So many families have benefited from it. It satisfies a real need. But the system isn’t perfect by any stretch. It can be improved and I believe we are headed in that direction.
Medicaid, like so many other programs need serious reform and the WASTE is unimaginable. Please don’t pollute this thread with politics . All I’m saying is the system needs to be streamlined, simplified and more efficient.

My Suggestion to ALL… PLAN PLAN PLAN…. Currently the Medicaid lookback is 5 years . Its hard to predict what will happen in 5 years so do something NOW !
And use Credible sources to create your plan. Heard it from a friend is not Credible !

Caveat-Emptor !