Hi guys, my mom is alone this morning in her apartment while my dad went to the doctor with my husband. Don't say it, why is my sick husband taking my dad. Anyway, I'm avoiding going up to pacify her. She just called me and said, if you come up, call me first because the door is unlocked, and I'll get scared when you come in. First, I have the key, 2nd of all, why is the door not locked, and 3rd they have a dog and 4th there's a concierge in the building. In Florida, there was no concierge, and every courier can enter without a key fob and when she was alone, they left the door unlocked in case EMS had to get in and she was alone because snowbirds weren't there. What is her problem? I should know the answer - I'm 8 floors down from her. Her mother was so much more independent. I'm like my grandmother, independent and loves to putter. My mother was the most independent woman in the world; owned businesses, entertained, traveled etc. until my dad retired. Then she sat in the car and let him go supermarket shopping, etc. Then she got both knees operated on and never did therapy and used a walker because she was afraid of falling. She made herself depend on other people. That's why I'm not going upstairs right now. Plus, she once again sounds moody (she's already upset that I didn't run up there). She has been "pouty" all her life. So once again, please tell me I'm doing the right thing until I see a therapist?
And GO .
If you are tired of these games , don’t play them , leave .
Today's post DOES make me think that she just really needs to TALK to someone about the day.
I hope that the admins will consider removing this new question to the "Discussions" section, and I hope you'll consider that great thread in future. The admins closed your previous question to comments after some 150 or so responses:
https://www.agingcare.com/questions/my-93-year-old-mom-gets-upset-when-i-tell-her-i-need-to-go-downstairs-to-my-apartment-i-feel-like-a--489715.htm
I suspect this closing could be because some of these questions turn to a sort of neighborly chit-chat (which is fine, but more appropriate to "Discussions" imho.)
I think your specific question to us today indicates you're continuing to have trouble making simple decisions for yourself; you've told us a lot about your anxiety, and this is certainly a symptom of anxiety--the inability to make decisions. I think that falls under that "waiting for therapy" you discussed in your last question.
And I think however you choose to handle today's dilemma will work out just fine.
So many of our fears in caregiving surround the fact that they are so elderly (yours in their 90s) that we worry anything could happen at any time. We kind of hover and wait. When folks ask what to expect in caregiving I always say "the unexpected". Your day today started by proving that point.
Sorry Dad is off to get checked again, and mom is anxious. But this is your daily routine more or less. We know how hard it is for you, and you have our sympathy. I hope the day gets better.
I am self-reporting myself so that admins can decide for themselves if you should perhaps consider "Discussions" for this type question now or in future. Take care, Romeo!
In your last discussion thread RealyReal make the solid good point that you have made a decision, you and your hubby, to live in the same building with your folks, and to be daily involved in their care. And that this "worked" for you, in a sense.
I agree with that up until you express your fears for yourself, your hubby, your stress, your health.
I have a question here: Do you have a friend? Do you have another family member, close or distant, living in your city or cross country? Is there SOMEONE/ANYONE you can talk to daily about the daily concerns you have, whether small or large. Someone just to share with? Or are WE that? And if we are that, are there not some few on your thread (I think of Nacy or Misery offhand) who might have time to chat with you in private messaging? Are you at all a fan of Facebook? So many groups there for likeminded. I mean I belong to Peeling Paint Society. Go figure.
Just want to encourage you, with all on your plate, don't neglect, or do try to find, at least one good friend--whether that be online or in a support group or even in your own family.
Do you see a pattern here with mom? She cannot be alone and sitting in the car doesn't count.
If your mom wants to pout like a 93 year old child then let her pout. Of course she's going to be moody and upset when you STOP doing what you always do. You aren't being the "good" daughter and by "good" daughter that means as long as you are doing what she wants you are fantastic and when you aren't she gets mean and nasty.
I challenge you to stay in your own home and do not go up there today. Feel all the negative feeling associated with being the "bad" daughter and be OK with that for today.
I wonder how your parents helped you and your husband when you were dealing with your cancer treatments. Did they cook for you, grocery shop for you, clean the house? What exactly did they do for you?
I have no idea what was so bad about what I wrote that AC felt the need to revise it. I was only speaking the truth.
All you need is boundaries for you. They will try to cross them but u stand firm. You should have allowed them to go to an AL.
I think after 100+ replys we have said it all. This is a problem we are not there to help you with.
Dad actually did it and then she called a second time. When my mom mentioned it to me I told her that he should not be picking anyone up off the floor at his age coupled with a bad back and that next time it happens they need to call 911 for a lift assist.
Sure enough not even 2 days after that phone conversation the neighbor fell and called my dad for another rescue.
This time he refused and called 911 for her.
If it wasn't for this board I never would have known to advise them to do this.
You don't have to talk to or speak with your parents old neighbors in Florida. It's not your job to listen to every old person in a 2000 mile radius, so please stop being that person.
Yes they are selfish BUT your parents take the cake on their utter selfishness. Focus on them and your own life and problems. You have no time to listen to the foolishness of these other people.
Just let the phone call go to voice mail if they call you again. There is no law that says you have to pick up the phone.
Your Mom is probably dependent upon your Dad to stabilize her fears. If your Mom was a super independent person up to now, she might have an early form of dementia where she no longer trusts herself because so many times, what she remembers is not the way it is happening or has evidence of the way it happened.
Bottom line: She will not be returning to the independent person she once was. However, you can help her to be more confident on who she is. Give her honest feedback on what she remembers and doesn't remember. Do not tease her about her memory or lack of memory. If she is hard of hearing (which might be the reason why she can't remember), write it down for her....
....and as long as she lacks confidence, consider taking her along for the appointments with your Dad, and vice versa. The lack of your Dad being there could be making her paranoid, which only makes the anxiety worse, which ultimately thankfully, makes her reach out.
The good news? She is reaching out. Many seniors suffer, and then get sucked in by scammers. Make this a time where you and she will learn and establish new routines that will build open communication and trust. You will need that unconditional trust from her as her life no longer resembles what she, as an independent woman, had.
My best wishes to you as the stones change in the journey of life.
Now, I would go into the exam room with my parents at the beginning, so I could be another set of ears. Plus the doctor would glance at me to see if the info my Mom or Dad was giving was correct, I wouldn't say anything just nod yes or no.
It was always interesting on the drive home, hearing my parents discuss that doctor appointment. I usually find myself thinking "were we in the same room???" because of some of things they were saying :)
Now that my hubby and I are older, we go together to appointments. I would sit in the waiting room, or he would, it just a comfort having the other there.
I think selective hearing is a survival mechanism and gets more prominent with age. I have seen it with my parents and my elderly friends.
Going together is a great idea.
I agree it would be great if you had someone close to you to talk to.
But I also want to say , friends when your deep into caregiving can be hard to keep and hard to find.
I got great distance going with 2 friends that I use to talk to all the time. They caused me too much drama , either they where never there for me when I really needed them, or they were giving me the oh poor you but ( to much sympathy)
Honestly I had very few people I could turn to. And now I'm so glad I dumped them 😆. Because I realized they were not that different than my mom.
That's why I suggested journaling a while back on your other question.
This is not going to improve .
My parents always traveled together all 3 of us when they got really old . All 3 of us would be cramped in the exam room at the doctors . Mom always wanted Dad with her whether it was at home or out after her stroke and subsequent dementia .
My Mom was a reader. Just reading the journal, triggered memories and made her feel more in control of her life. She would read it over, and over again and ask me questions...and also tell me what she wanted me to do in the future. The real use I got out of it was that it helped me know, what was the last appointment she had with which doctor, and all the nuances of the visit (e.g. she had no reaction to x medication). I added to the journal places we went, what we ate, so it also tracked her behavior. When she read the journal, she could remember who she met and why, and also reflect upon what else happened. Sometimes I had to write in code so she wouldn't get upset.
However the bottom line, was that she felt better about herself and more in control of her life (without asking me all the questions, repeatedly) because she could read about her life and review what was going on. What I think was happening was that life was going too fast for my Mom, and the journal allowed her to relive that part of her life, just at a slower pace.
Also, is there a senior day care in your area? Perhaps your Mom and Dad could go there once or twice a week, just to get some new and changing experiences in their life so that their life is not as routine. It could also help the brain cells so that she is able to remember things more easily.
Just thoughts.
He was cranky the other day and she wanted him to come upstairs and relax on her couch and when he told her he couldn't she said nastily - that's ok and hung up abruptly. I remember now that every time she was upset with him, she said mean things about him to me, but when I reversed it she was hurt about her husband.
PS - I just recalled what she said last month: what a nice couple you are and said Dennis is handsome in some picture. She has been back and forth with this since 37 years ago.
not having a go but you do sound a little harsh /mentioning that not to have a go but to highlight your no nonsense for a word approach msy be sending her into a panic
why not ask the others to ask her why she gets nervous when you visit
you may not be aware of a behaviour that may. Be generating that in her
Is she scared of you telling her off or something and need to correct or do something before you come in ?
there could be all sorts of reasons
that may not be logical to us but are to her and need pacifying
old age is frightening
I had less patience with my dad than my older sister and it took me a while to see how relaxed my dad was with my sister and how he was more I wouldn’t say nervous but agitated with me as I had less patience
so I amended my behaviour
slowed down a bit and spoke calmer and softer and the whole dynamics changed
life is easier and more pleasant for everyone and my dad has bounced back to his old self
I thought we had lost him
you also may see a return to former self if you are able to help her a bit
good luck
It is hard to accept that your parents change.
Also, I told her he has a PET Scan tomorrow to see if his cancer is in remission. Just lovely! I'm trying to brush it off and say she is insane.
So we went up there tonight and the minute we walked in she said to my husband - you look so cute and handsome tonight and so good and she said it about 3 times - so, I turned around and couldn't help myself and said - oh - really - that's not what you said an hour ago! Tell him what you really think! She said what do you mean - you're just jealous! What the hell is my mother talking about! I said tell him you called him ugly - and she said quietly to me how dare you say that - I didn't say that and why did you say that I said that and hurt him.
WHAT?????
She didn't like that I said your husband has a big nose. I told her she looked at me and said that's mean. Is she kidding me? She doesn't think what she said about my husband is mean and hurtful? If I bring it up again, she'll turn it around on me and say - you know I was joking and didn't mean that.
Let's put it this way, my husband isn't Clark Gable and I'm not Sofia Loren, but do we have to say it?
She also said before all of this I feel sorry for Dad. I said why? He had a great life traveling, even though he had problems. Why does she feel sorry for him? He's 96 years old and complaining about everything - what is she talking about?
I really think she's going insane!
I don’t think she’s afraid to be alone . It’s an excuse . She is manipulating you to be with her to be abusive to you.
This is her fuel . She’s not happy unless she has you jumping to serve her and to criticize . She sounds like a narcissist .
She will never be sincerely nice to you . When she is nice it’s fake . She’s only nice to try to get what she wants , and when it doesn’t work she is mean and gas lights you .
The phone call about the door being unlocked means she isn’t scared . If she was scared she would lock the door .
The entire phone call was a hint to make you go up to her apartment .
When I joined this forum, I was done with the way things were going in my life and needed a change.
I am wondering if you have accepted the fact that, Your Life Is Out Of control, and if you really want to change.
Honestly I don't see someone that is really ready and willing to change, to accept help.
With that being said, therapy at this point is a waist of money and time. Until you really deep in your heart want thing to change, there is little to nothing anyone can do for you.
You should have simply said , “ I’m not coming up , gotta hang up now .” And hang up .
Stop being her puppet .
Your mother is not going to change. She can not be reasoned with . You need therapy to change how you let her control you .
She is not going to be happy when you try to set boundaries . She will double down on her nastiness . You start limiting the amount of time you spend with her . Back off . Have groceries delivered. If you are making meals , drop and run . The more nasty she gets the less you speak to her .
Narcissists have a way of making you jump to their demands. In your case it sounds like come here so I can smack you. She gets off on abusing you.
You can continue with this charade and complain or STOP THE MADNESS!
I would be happy to hear a post where you just haul off and give her a good piece of your mind and stop the nonsense of feeding into her crap. You don't have to yell and scream, but give it to her in a manner where she knows you mean business. Start giving back her crap and then ignore her. Abusers need a recipient. If you notice, they don't pick on people who they know will stand up for themselves. They pick on the ones who they know will keep coming back with no complaints.
Since she has behaviors that irritate you, you might benefit from reading any of the books by Townsend and Cloud on "boundaries". The counsellors outline a proven method to develop a plan to handle each problem behavior when it occurs.
You tell us this in your last post:
"So we went up there tonight and the minute we walked in she said to my husband - you look so cute and handsome tonight and so good and she said it about 3 times - so, I turned around and couldn't help myself and said - oh - really - that's not what you said an hour ago! Tell him what you really think! She said what do you mean - you're just jealous! What the hell is my mother talking about! I said tell him you called him ugly - and she said quietly to me how dare you say that - I didn't say that and why did you say that I said that and hurt him.
WHAT?????
She didn't like that I said your husband has a big nose. I told her she looked at me and said that's mean. Is she kidding me? She doesn't think what she said about my husband is mean and hurtful? If I bring it up again, she'll turn it around on me and say - you know I was joking and didn't mean that."
It seems to me that you love this bickering. You so often START it. You are always determined to FINISH it. I don't really suggest a therapist anymore. I think you love all this, and are absolutely in your element. I think my sympathy now is completely with your parents. But they aren't writing.
Why not just admit you love to bicker?
My only fear for you is that your parents are aged and will eventually pass; I can't imagine where then you will go for fun.
I won't be reading this particular thread anymore. It's too "stranger than fiction".
I wish you luck. I wish your parents even MORE luck. Take care.
Make an appointment today, please.
This is a way of life in which different costumes are donned dependent on the situation: "Martyr" or "manager". And basically it's about attention, negative or positive doesn't matter--just so the attention's there.
When Mom was going to interrupt your task of the appt for your Dad , you could have said “ No Mom , we have to do the appt now because I’m not staying here to wait . Dad can do measurements later “.
That is setting a boundary .
Don’t get into any unnecessary discussions , like bringing up the map .
You go in , do what you have to do , shut down Mom’s manipulation with the word “ No” . You state what you are there to do , do it , and leave . Ignore the rest of her BS and finish your task and get out .
You need to stop letting her get under your skin and defensive . Turn the table. . I’m going to say it again BACK OFF . When she gives you crap about why you don’t stay and why you are nasty . You tell her that she doesn’t appreciate all you do and have done for her . Don’t fight , yell , bicker or rehash . Tell her you aren’t putting up with her nonsense , and leave . No discussions , do not respond to whatever she says back to you . And she will try , she always does somethlng childish like mimicking etc . to provoke you .
You are at the end of your rope dealing with them . Any chance you could place them in assisted living and sublet the lease on their current place ?
Don’t get involved with furniture and decorating either. That’s a want not a need . Just give them what the need , food and run . No helping them hang pictures on the wall . “ No I won’t do that “. Practice saying it .
Maybe she will decide she doesn’t want to live in your building anymore if you aren’t fulfilling all her ridiculous demands . Wouldn’t that be a nice New Years . If she decides to move out !!!
Also learn the phrase “ I’m not discussing it “. Shut her down . Take command of the situation .