My name has been on my mom's bank accounts for 20 plus years. I never even looked at them until this past year when I noticed she was starting to show confusion about her banking. I got the accounts set up for online banking so I could keep an eye on things. It started becoming clear that she was not balancing her checkbook or keeping up with her accounts. She would often be overdrawn somewhat but she had overdraft protection and it would transfer what was needed from her savings.
I had not said anything to her because she is pretty touchy when it comes to mentioning anything she might be having difficulty with. She has let me help with paying some of her bills. But I discovered that she is also putting things on 2 credit cards as well! I'm noticing that she goes to Walmart basically every day now along with other grocery stores at times. She is spending more and more during these trips. She lives alone and doesn't cook much but has her fridge, freezer and cabinets jammed full. She doesn't have a whole lot left in her savings and I'm concerned that she will have gone through all of it by the time she is in need of that money to help with her care.
How did those of you who have been through this, handle it? I don't have POA but I'm looking into making an appointment with an elder law attorney and bringing mom with me.
I don't think I'll have much trouble taking over mom's bills because we have talked about it. Getting her to hand over her debit card might be a different story but I'm going to figure something out. The prepaid card might work. Thank you guys for that idea!
I'm not sure if it's boredom or restlessness or what that makes her want to go to Walmart every day. Or thinking that she needs to get something. She is involved a lot in our church although she gave up her position as head of one of the committees not long ago. She had been talking about doing that for a while because it was a lot of work. She still does quite a few other things at church. She also volunteers at a local museum once or twice a month. I think looking into the senior center would be good but knowing my mom I don't think she will go for that.
I showed up at my mom's Dr appointment recently and to my surprise when I asked if I could go in with her she said yes. She has told me no before. I had been talking to her primary practitioner through MyChart about her memory issues. She basically told me unless you are with her to bring this up or she asks about it herself there's not much I can do. When she saw I was with mom, she didn't waste any time getting the ball rolling with asking about mom's memory. If I hadn't been there nothing would have been done. Mom denied having any memory issues. The practitioner then asked me if I was seeing problems. Thankfully she prescribed Aricept which I can only pray keeps her from getting worse for a while.
Again, thank you all for sharing your stories and advice. This is hard. Yesterday I was so down I could hardly get off the couch. Knowing that everyone here understands means a lot.
I think you need poa asap
at least as an emergency backup if her mind deteriorates any further
a lot of people spend excessively to compensate for sonething
Loneliness and the high of a shopping trip
a lot of hoarders have had sone kind of emotional upset to trigger it- loss of someone - lots of programmes on tv about it
one this week stated it is an a risky mental illness and bigger numbers affected than we think
Maybe mother needs another- bingo or some old age gathering - church stuff?
that aside hard conversations are needed - mum you e been overdrawn a lot lately we need to stop the spending - maybe get poa with a cap on spending ?
it is a form of mental illness - maybe a word with her doctor
in the meantime it may be prudent to get that poa done asap
best wishes
Then Mom or Dad started asking me to look at a bill, or figure something out in a statement they had received. I would offer to check over their checking accounts or fill out checks as needed. Mom always took care of the actual mailing of the checks. I found out that she was paying for a magazine subscription every time she got a statement, 3-4 times a year! I managed to get her out of a monthly book subscription for books she never read but couldn't figure out how to cancel. Convinced Dad to close a business checking account that was charging him $20 a month for an account he didn't need or use. Finally, I had the bank print out a list of all their accounts and discovered a savings account with $30k they didn't remember having!
Finally, I created a spread sheet of their expenses and income to show them where their money was going, they had never set up a budget and had not idea how much they were spending.
It is very difficult for someone who has been independent and in control of their life to turn over any of that control. Do it gradually and don't make her feel like a child for not understanding.
You might need to start going shopping with her, after you do an inventory of the pantry! I think the shopping is part of being bored, Mom loved garage sales and was always buying useless trinkets and jewelry. Can you get her involved with volunteering or going to a senior center for activities to keep her busy.
My Mom was the uber-saver when she was younger. However, when she got older, especially in early dementia, she decided that she needed to spend her money so the government wouldn't get it all. Luckily during those days, we could talk her out of spending money by just getting her busy in other activities, like senior day care.
Later on, she wanted to spend her money down, because she wanted to enjoy it while she had it and she had no concept of keeping for any future health problems. I found out recently, that is one of the hallmark traits of people with dementia......they no longer have the discipline to save or make rational decisions about the future, because it is all about now to them.
You are right to be concerned about her future and the cost about her future. While she still has the mental facilities about her, start looking and get her thoughts about what she wants to do about future life....go and visit some places with her, finds out what excites her. Then use that as an incentive for saving for the future.
However, I personally think you need to take the steps to keep her financially stable for the future. You don't need POA if you can take her to the banks, etc. as she can speak to them in-person and get things changed.
This was probably not the best way to handle.
She STILL will be upset.
This is part of dementia.
You (learn to not) do not take her re-actions personally knowing she is frightened, scared, confused. She is doing what 'she' - with her changing brain - thinks is being independence and taking care of herself.
You could say it is a glitch in the system and you're only straightening things out in the interim. Say anything to get her calmed down and accept 'what is' in the moment.
If she resists going to MD, tell her she is going out for lunch or a nice outing. And, on the 'way' to that nice outing - is a stop for a vaccine (?) or something that the MD ORDERED (blame the MD).
Yes, is essential you see an attorney however you will need MD documentation for finances/ banking/ credit cards.
Gena / Touch Matters
Your name has been on your mother's account for 20+ years, which you've had full access to. I'm thinking your mom has a Will?
The POA should be a very simple document for you to obtain.
I hired an estate attorney who did all 3 HS,POA,WILL. Afterward with my Mother and Father my name is on everything. The POA is basically your Mother's hand. It has made things much less complicated than they would be.
You show that document to anybody in regards to your mother and they say ...Ok
Pray your mother has happy days ahead. And pray continued strength for both of us as I also care for both my Mother and Father who have dementia.
KK
You say your name has been on her bank accounts for 20 years. I assume she knows of this. Remind her she trusted you to help her manage her money and offer to manage paying all of her bills, and get a pre-paid debit card she can use for spending. You can load her "allowance" of funds every week.
Show her how to buy online from Walmart, and she can pick up curbside or have delivered. That could help her see her spending budget without the embarrassment of being in the store, and her card being declined in the checkout. You could offer to make weekly online orders for her (and with her).
Does she know her overdraft protection is paying for her spending? Point it out to her. If she was a responsible person with money, that could make an impact on her.
Really, if she's sensitive about it, and you don't have POA - (Someone should! Get her to sign a document giving POA to someone when she is unable!) talking with her even if she doesn't like it, and giving her a spending allowance through pre-paid debit cards is all you can really do.
When my Mom passed she told my Dad she wanted some money to be donated to a charity. Well I learned that he donated a large sum of money. Then he went to the bank a week later and wired another large sum to the same charity. When I moved him to where I live he needed to fill out the facility application. I didn’t know at the time but he lied on the application. When I found out and asked him about it he said it’s no one’s business.
My Mom always took care of their finances and now I know why. I so regret not having this conversation with him earlier. I would have insisted that he needs it for his present and future care. Now I worry about future costs for him. His income isn’t enough to pay for assisted living. But it’s above the requirements for Medicaid. When he was in assisted living my husband and I paid the difference. If I would have had the conversation with him earlier, I would’ve prevented the current situation.
Hope you learn from my nightmare that it’s better to do it NOW. Otherwise it will only get worse. You will have peace of mind knowing that her spending has stopped.
Wishing you the best!
After years of being very secretive with our finances, our oldest became a CPA tax specialist so we had to begin opening up for him to help in that area. Finally I have tried to become an open book to our two sons in our personal affairs, especially since I am a 24/7 caregiver for my husband. I would love to be more open in case we need either of them to step up they would be more prepared. However, they don't seem to grasp the importance of being aware of everything.
I remember when I was young there were times I was glad I could blame my parents if I had to tell my friends I couldn't do something. Recently, someone asked to borrow more money than I was comfortable loaning. While I had access to the amount asked for I was able to say our sons controlled our finances. I am thankful the bulk of our assets are in a trust with our sons as trustees to protect me from unwise decisions in the future.
For me, it took my father being in the hospital in his last months to have the financial discussions. He then talked to my mom, expressing to her that their daughters needed to be on the accounts and be able to monitor them for fraud.
Guess what. I found fraud immediately on their credit card! I was able to claw back the $$.
My mother put us on the accounts and she has actually been happy. I have alerts on my phone and will text her anytime something looks questionable. She recently had discussions with her lady friends who talked about scammers and it seemed to make her even happier to know that she has other eyes watching her money.
I'm sure it was initially challenging for my dad to get her onboard because they have known several people whose kids have screwed over the parents and taken the money,
For me, it took my father being in the hospital in his last months to have the financial discussions. He then talked to my mom, expressing to her that their daughters needed to be on the accounts and be able to monitor them for fraud.
Guess what. I found fraud immediately on their credit card! I was able to claw back the $$.
My mother put us on the bank and CC accounts and she has actually been happy. I have alerts on my phone and will text her anytime something looks questionable. She recently had discussions with her lady friends who talked about scammers and it seemed to make her even happier to know that she has other eyes watching her money. I have put freezes on her credit. She won't be needing any loans in her future, soooo...
I'm sure it was initially challenging for my dad to get her onboard because they have known several people whose kids have screwed over the parents and taken the money,
As for her spending, tell her that you want to help simplify things for her - and you. Give her a prepaid debit/credit card type gift to use for her "pleasure buying." As long as there are funds available on the card, she can spend it any way she chooses. Help make sure all her bills are paid and create a plan to "repay" some back into her savings from whatever income she gets monthly.
I can't emphasize the importance of getting ducks in a row. My parents did not trust their daughters. Any discussion never ended well. It took my having a temper tantrum on the floor of their kitchen to finally get my mother to see a lawyer to get their legal documents in place. I think she finally realized I was going to leave and never come back.
Because of their lousy decisions we are dealing with a lot of issues right now in regards to the money from the sale of their house and Medicaid. When they finally did something it was too little too late.
No one wants to be in the place I am finding myself right now dealing with this. Talk to your parents.
I hate my parents for what they did to me. I will never feel the same about them again. I didn't want an inheritance, just wanted some peace of mind.
Have that conversation, hopefully it goes better for you.
She needs care now and probably has for some time. If she can't balance her checkbook, is confused, and is hoarding (cramming her refridgerator and cabinets) she isn't able to live independently on her own anymore.
There needs to be serious changes made. Starting with no more driving. If she's doing all the things you say and then gets touchy and stubborn when anyone mentions it, she has some kind of dementia. No one deserves to get killed because some senior is stubborn and wants to continue driving when they shouldn't be.
Get the POA done. That's a good start. Then get her to the doctor for some cognitive testing. Tell the doctor beforehand about the behaviors and the spending before she's bankrupt.
Alva is right. Not mentioning anything to her isn't going to help. Your mother can't be alone anymore because she isn't coping. She will probably blow up at you and push against any changes being made to keep her living safely at home. So you are going to have to stay strong and act with some tough love towards her for her own good. You're taking over the finances and there will be homecare coming to help her with the house, shopping, and anything else she needs.
You tell her plainly that this is how it's going to be otherwise you can't help her. There will be no stubbornness. If she goes through all her money on nonsense she will end up in a Medicaid nursing home because without money there won't be any other choices.
This should do it. I did senior care for 25 years and have seen this dynamic play out many times. Tell your mother what I have told countless seniors and their families.
Nothing gets a senior a one way ticket to a nursing home faster than being stubborn.
Good luck to you.
Can you make an inventory of all the food she has and go with her to Walmart next time and point out “mom, you don’t need crackers, you already have five boxes, I have it on the list”? This may or may not help her curb her purchasing impulses. If it does not, you will have more evidence that her behavior is irrational and tending toward hoarding.
Another possible approach would be getting her either a debit card with a low limit that you reload once a week or gift cards (say $50 or $100) and that’s all she gets to spend that week without asking you.
if she really can’t keep track then I worry she also should not be driving.
You are doing the right thing here, don’t feel guilty.
Trust your instincts. Do what needs to be done. You got this!
Beyond that, calmly stating the dire straights first and work from there, as others have said.
I did end up having to push the matter of moving to a way sooner time, from my own thoughts of a feasible timeframe. So in my case I actually used resources free to me. The local hospital will send out a needs assessment nurse. They will be someone other than me who can discuss they real needs of moving sooner rather than later and what time frame is feasible. It helped us get mom on board with moving when she was struggling with loosing her independence and leaving her home state. It worked including getting her on board with what Dad knew we needed to do, because he was struggling to keep up with the demands of grocery shopping and everything else mom stopped being able to do years prior.
Best to you, my mom eventually was diagnosed with dementia and has recently needed to be moved to a LTCF.
If you discuss with mother and an attorney then you may need to pull the soft rug out from under her with "Mom, things are going South here and I can see it. It is time now to accept help and get things set up to protect you. We will do bills together and I will give you a strong monthly accounting of every penny into and out of your accounts (you as POA would have to do that ANYWAY).
BUT...........Mom.............if you will not trust me and accept my help then I am bowing away from any help for you; and you need help now.
It's up to you. You can manage EVERYTHING alone, or you can accept my help and do your bills and manage your funds safely with my help.
I have been afraid to bring any of this up to you, because I was afraid of your reaction. I can see now that isn't helping either of us. It is time to recognize you need help."
And if she doesn't, then either go on as you are (which could end in a mess) or do consider backing away.
This is limited and things are going to get worse. Soon she won't be able to give POA and it will go either to getting THE call from hospital or coroner. Stubborness in all this has consequences but a child is limited in how much can be done with a stubborn and uncooperative elder. In fact, paranoia and stubborness will increase, not decrease. It is time to address this and with an attorney may be the best place. On the OTHER hand, not being prepared, she may feel ambushed and attacked and it may all go south in an expensive attorney's office.
Good luck.
I'm leaning toward talking about her finances with her before going to an attorney. I have mentioned she and I going to an elder law attorney to her before so we could find out what important things we need to do to be prepared for the future and she seemed agreeable. I guess we'll see how it goes. Thank you again!