Charity giving, bleeding the bank dry.

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Charity giving, bleeding the bank dry.

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Hi all

I have two parents 85 yrs and 75 yrs who are very active in a evangelical church that is mostly older folks. Every year these jewish organizations come in to ask for donations from the evangelical congregations and they bleed their pockets dry. My parents are so moved by these stories and speakers that come that they donated thousands of dollars they do not have to give instead of repairing their fence, or new roof, or buying new tires. They literally will not stop giving all their money to Israel charities because they were conditioned to think this is what the bible tells them to do. I should preface I have NOTHING against jewish people and have jewish family on my fathers side, but this feels like swindling old people and I cannot get them to stop donating to these charities. They have donated enough money at this point to buy a house in some states and have neglected things they need to do it. I do not know what to do as they both appear of sound mind to everyone else, outside of this one area of charity giving.

Please any advice on what to do as I do not live near them and do not have control of their finances. I dont know how to get them to stop as everytime I show them data on how much money actually goes out from these charities they dont believe me.

Thanks so much
Ana

Cognitive Decline Frauds & Scams

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Elderly people are very vulnerable to excessive charity giving. My mom’s favorite charity was Feeding America. It is a very reputable charity and I did not intervene in her donations, but I can see that it could have become a problem if she had been in a more precarious financial position. She was particularly concerned about hunger during Covid times. Once she gave, they started sending multiple appeals each month and she sent checks very often. I think sometimes she forgot how recently she had sent the last one, so it might be helpful if you keep track of their donations and remind them of how much they have already given. I don’t think there is much else you can do without interfering with their autonomy. Intercepting the mail might help in some cases, but personal appeals in their church are difficult to discourage.

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No matter how righteous the cause may be, it is inappropriate for a church to bring in outside groups that are seeking donations from its people. I think the OP should have a discussion with the church elders about this.

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Why? Who are you to dictate what people do in their faith-based organizations? Maybe you'd also like to control what they believe, like the Chinese government? Last time I checked we still had freedom of religion in American. It's why people risked their lives to come here in the first place.

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Admin, please close this thread to further comments. With the rampant anti Semitism going on in the world today, this discussion is highly inappropriate in my opinion.

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I don't think the OP is being anti semantic she is upset because her parents are donating what amounts to a modest sized house to this organization while their own house is in disrepair and needs work.

To have organizations come into the church and ask for money from members is wrong IMHO this is like having a time share do a presentation in the church or any other business dealings.

If people want to donate to charities, great but the church should not be sponsoring and promoting these things (and I would say this for ALL charities) because there are many vulnerable and gullible people in the church that will give and give, even if they really don't have the money to give.

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Here is the Charity Navigator rating of the IFCJ organization. It's 4-stars out of 4 stars possible, FYI, with a 98% approval rating. All the metrics are there on this link. So, not a scam by any stretch.

https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/363256096

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I just googled them with the word scam and they are pretty scammy in my opinion and others too. The head guy makes a little over a half a million a year and other principles a quarter of a million a year. I highly doubt actual individual people receive the money raised by this organization seems it goes to sub groups to "dole" out.

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Given the current political climate, identifying and blaming any specific religion makes me queasy and reeks of bigotry.

I question the validity of your posting.

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Well I was there when they came in one time the international fellowship of christian and jews and they really pressed everyone hard with these horror and sad stories. Then everyone donated. Its weird to me like can you ask people in your synagogue for money and not a religion you dont even agree with. Doesnt that seem weird or scammy to you? has nothing to do with bigotry or any political climate sheesh

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This is totally opposite to Jewish practices, as the traditional "church collection plate" is never even passed around in a synagogue! Money is not allowed to be used on the Sabbath, and funds are raised by charging for High Holy Day services in the synagogue, normally. It should be noted, nobody who cannot pay is ever turned away on the High Holy Days either.

The thought of "Jewish organizations come in to ask for donations from the evangelical congregations and they bleed their pockets dry" is truly unthinkable to me. Are you certain your parents have their facts straight? Is this happening in the UK?

My only suggestion is to see if they'll give you FPOA so you can manage their finances. Otherwise, perhaps this a fraudulent situation disguised as a fundraising campaign which seems questionable too.

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i was there at a service for one of the times the organization was there and it was the international fellowship of jews and christians, they are based out of chicago. All i know is its mostly an elderly church and they bring israel flags and teach them to sing songs in hebrew and they tell horror stories of the plight of the jewish/israeli life and then they all donate. My heart goes out to some of these situations they talk about, but it seems scammy to me to target elderly people, like cant you ask your synagogue for money and not a religion of people you dont even agree with. seems weird to me.

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I think that the only thing you can do would be to try to set up some time with a financial planner who would encourage them to invest the bulk of their income and savings in ways that are difficult to access - spin this any way necessary to get them to agree, perhaps telling them the interest/dividends earned can go to those charities.

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I would talk to their Minister. Tell him they cannot afford to donate what they do. I would think they already tithe to their Church. This is over and above 10%. New tires are important as is a new roof. Not saying they can't donate but not to the detriment to their necessities not being met.

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"Not saying they can't donate but not to the detriment to their necessities not being met." Exactly. Some people when they get old start donating to a lot of charities thinking it will buy them a ticket to heaven.

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If your parents are of sound mind, you really have no say where they choose to give their money to, as it's their money.
I say, God bless them for being so charitable.
And I'm sure that if these donations are happening at your parents church that there is no fraud being done here.

Could it be that you are more concerned that your parents are choosing to spend THEIR money the way they see fit, rather than saving it for your inheritance?
I can't help but wonder.

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She says that things, like a new roof, are not being done.

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Talk to the church directly about it and see if they condone the grifting of their elderly congregation.

Look up these organizations first to see how much money goes to actually helping people too. It may give you some ammunitiin when you talk to the church leaders. All of which should be present.

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This is not a thing that happens in churches. If this non-profit was allowed to come in and make a presentation, it would have been vetted by the elders first before being sanctioned. This type of complaint by a non-attender would not steer decisions by the church or result in them butting into the financial affairs of attenders. The Pastor may have a discussion about the concerns that family member has about their parents decline in general, but the elders don't have any authority (legal or otherwise) to tell congregants where, when or how much they tithe. In my church the Pastor and elders are not allowed to know who gives and how much, only the Financial officer knows this. This is kept secret and separate for a reason.

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It may--or may not!--help to show OP's parents how to look up what a charity is actually doing with the money that is donated. Charity Navigator is the agency I use. It's astonishing sometimes to find out how LITTLE actually goes to support the organization's mission and how MUCH goes to "Fund Raising" and "Administration". (Admin. should never exceed 15% and 10% or less is better. I was employed by a nonprofit for almost 40 years; our Admin. was 8-10%.). Note: Some religious organizations may not have a registered charity, but the larger ones usually do.

Personal observation: when I was still working, and for a year or two afterwards, I continued donating to charities (as well as politicians and causes) I believed in and had vetted thoroughly. While the amounts were reasonable, when I started thinking it through--really thinking it through as an elder on a fixed income--I realized that the biggest favor I could do any charity was to remain financially solvent for as long as I could. This so as not to need their help--or that of the government--for as long as possible. I still donate but much less now and to a few VERY carefully chosen nonprofits. My husband and I try to tend to our own NEEDS first so as not to burden our family.

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We cannot make financial decisions for our parents when they are of sound mind. They have a right to give their money to anyone they like. I would assume they have had a discussion with you of the fact that their gifting, should they bankrupt themselves, will result in no Medicaid for them? That seems a pretty dire consequence. If however they have enough money to give and to maintain themselves until death that's their decision.

If however, there is dementia, I would seek guardianship or conservatorship of finances here to protect their funds for them.

Wish you good luck in this.

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If your parents are not cognitively impaired, then they get to do whatever they see fit with their money, whether you agree with it or not.

If you are not their PoA, you have no power in this situation.

If you are their PoA, then you will need to work to satisfy the criteria outlined in the document to activate the authority. Then you will be able to manage their money in their own best interests.

If you are their PoA but can't get them into their PCP for a cognitive exam, then you may need to pursue guardianship through the courts. But you will still have to prove they are cognitvely impaired enough to need a court-assigned guardian.

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I don't know the answer to this but if you find one, let me know.
My dad does this mainly with children charities. They send him birthday cards with pictures of children he's helping etc. Send him little gifts to make him feel even more obligated.
He has steps up to the upper level of his home where his kitchen bedroom etc are that are literally tilting to one side and the railings are ready to fall off. He has plumbing issues. He needs a house cleaner. He can barely walk and won't go to a doctor (other than a cardiologist he loves). He has a tree ready to fall in his yard next to the house.
These things will never be fixed between his debt and his donations.
I've told him to stop it and he acts like he agrees and then I'll see his outgoing mail with donation envelopes.
Good luck!

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This kind of thing caused me to have my dad’s mail forwarded to my home. I cut off the mail charities cold turkey as it had gotten ridiculous. They sell their mailing lists to each other and prey on the elderly. Complete lack of ethics

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Charity giving, bleeding the bank dry.

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