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Who are you caring for?
Which best describes their mobility?
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How are they managing their medications?
Does their living environment pose any safety concerns?
Fall risks, spoiled food, or other threats to wellbeing
Are they experiencing any memory loss?
Which best describes your loved one's social life?
Acknowledgment of Disclosures and Authorization
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington. Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services. APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid. We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour. APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment. You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints. Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights. APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.I agree that: A.I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information"). B.APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink. C.APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site. D.If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records. E.This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year. F.You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
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Determining Fair Market Value: Medicaid uses the concept of fair market value to ensure that assets are not undervalued to gain eligibility. What is FMV? Fair market value is the price a willing buyer would pay to a willing seller in an open market, without any undue influence or coercion. How is FMV determined? The value is based on criteria used in appraising the value for the purpose of determining Medicaid eligibility. Example: If someone sells a house for $100,000 when its fair market value is $200,000, the difference ($100,000) could be considered a transfer of assets for less than FMV, potentially leading to a penalty.
The penalty is always, a denial of benefits until the applicant has paid the difference of fair market value(above scenario would be $100,000 needing to be paid to the facility or you wait till past the lookback time period where applicant is applying for Medicaid).
So, if you are past the lookback period when applying for Medicaid, the stated equity gifting wouldn't matter. Additionally, most states don’t look at smaller gifting scenarios(usually checks for $1000 or less).
I hope all goes well in your figuring things out. Just remember not to assume anything when dealing with what you are. Knowing will make the process so much smoother and less stressful!
Don't ever let medicaid/medi-cal or medicare ever say they can tell you a fair market value.. There are people that can help with getting info you will need. There should be a free legal service where you live for seniors and they can direct you to who can answer your questions. For the time being mom is allowed to own her own home and no one can force you to sell. Warning don't do anything on Your own without the right kind of help.
Verify with Medicaid experts. Strict rules to determine eligibility for care. For example, if a facility charges $5,000 per month, then the resident self pays for three months until eligible Medicaid pays, so be careful.
“Gift of Equity”, well that’s not an everyday term on this forum. So I’m guessing you are trying to get a mortgage to buy this house from a close family member and they will sell to you for less by doing a “Gift of Equity” towards the mortgage? Is that it? If so, the use of a gift of equity for lending is completely different animal than how LTC Medicaid views “gifting” of applicants assets.
For “value” imho couple of things going on that are different….. if this involves a mortgage, lender is going to more than likely send out their own appraiser &/or inspector to make sure the house is suitable for lending. If that is done, that bank requested appraisal will be its “sale price”.
Otherwise, Value usually based on the most recent tax assessor / tax collector bill. It’s what Medicaid caseworker usually will use as it’s easy to verify by their looking into State courthouse database. If owner or their POA feels assessor value is wrong, they can hire a licensed and registered / certified residential property appraiser to do a valuation, which becomes a new value the caseworker can use. Owner or buyer cannot set value. If property has issues, might be a good idea to have property undergo both an inspection & structural engineering reports. Both done by licensed and registered professionals in your State. Done before the Appraisal & provided to the Appraiser to use if they choose to. These types of reports usually come with State issued professional seal with their info within their seal and they do a signature. They are all viewed as a legal document.
HOWEVER there is a bigger issue in this which is for Medicaid, there is no “gift of equity” allowed. Gifting is gifting whether it’s that grandma wrote a check to you for 50K towards your wedding, or transferred for zero her 200K assessor valued home to you, or paid to your University 20K for tuition, or sold her tax assessor valued 200K home to you with a 75K Gift of Equity to reduce sale price to 125K. Mortgage companies and banks can allow for “gift of equity” but Medicaid doesn’t.
A 5 yr lookback on assets for LTC Medicaid for most States. Any gifting places a transfer penalty against her eligibility to have LTC Medicaid pay for her care. Transfer penalty is based on the day rate your State pays a facilty for LTC Medicaid custodial care. Say your State pays the NH $245 day rate, so a 100K gift is a transfer penalty of 408 DAYS of INELIGIBLITY that is effective as of the date she filed a LTC Medicaid application. For the elder in a NH and their POA, this becomes a crisis situation.
fwiw for the caseworker, if it appears that the gifting action was due to undue influence over a vulnerable adult, the caseworker - as a mandated reporter - has to forward findings to APS / Adult Protective Services. APS will do an investigation and turn over their report to law enforcement. This could become very serious matter for gift recipient to deal with if it’s considered undue influence rather than grandpa makes a costly mistake with his assets.
fwiw, “Gifting of Equity” totally allowed by mortgage lenders. But has a defined list of things that have to be done for lender to place mortgage using this. Lenders will have the exact details. Also taxes involved. It’s not so much that taxes have to be paid as the amount will go against the owners overall lifetime max of 12M. But there are IRS filings that are supposed to be done. Medicaid can have access to IRS, because by filing for LTC Medicaid you sign off to allow for any & all financial database access… like IRS, the credit reporting companies, TAlX/EDR. So gifting will surface one way or another.
To me, not probably fraud. A “Gift of Equity” totally allowed by mortgage lenders for close family buy/sell. My guess is OP has been told this and tells the elder and if a bank allows it then must be ok & then someone else mentions Medicaid rules. The mortgage guys don’t care about Medicaid rules, they want to close a deal and the borrower really wants a home so hears only the upside. Fwiw Gift of Equity can even be used for the downpayment rather than against reducing sale price if the #s run better to apply the $ that way. Like Gift of Equity used for big downpayment so no PMI needed, which can be quite a tidy sum. There seems to be a raft of paperwork that will have to happen by both sides for the gift to be used for lending…. so weeds out fraud. Although there’s always a way if you’re criminally bent. I bet some banks just will not want to deal with borrowers who need to do this to buy, as they are unqualified for regular lending. It’s probably more mortgage brokers territory to find lenders for a borrower, and brokers are more aggressive in getting deals done.
Now if the OP is forcing the elder to do this, that’s a crime. It’s undue influence on a vulnerable person. It’s a law enforcement issue stemming from an APS filing. Criminal not civil. Unless your spouse or BFF or your kid or your friendly Ex is a criminal defense attorney, it will be some kinda expensive to hire one.
I don’t recall ever reading a Gift of Equity ?/post on this forum. Interesting if this is being touted as a way to for grandparents to show their love and enable you to afford a home you otherwise wouldn’t ever afford. Bad idea.
So a great way of looking at "gifting" within the Look Back period is - how does the giftee want to pay that back BEFORE their loved one can receive Medicaid coverage?
Do they want to pay for care out of their pockets to cover the gift?
Or do they want to provide care in their home for the loved one until Medicaid considers that gift repaid?
Because as others have mentioned - if any amount of money is gifted during the Look Back period - that money MUST be recovered before Medicaid is approved.
Medicaid does not determine the price. My realtor set a price basedbon what other similar houses were going for. It has to be Market Value. You cannot gift any of the proceeds. Medicaid does not allow the gifting of 15k or whatever it is now. All proceeds will need to be set aside and only used for that persons needsbor care. Records for every cent spent will need to be kept.
The penalty of gifting money? No Medicaid. During the penalty period, someone either pays for the persons carevor they do the care.
No. Gifting should never be done when someone is needing/applying for Medicaid in the next 2 1/2 (California only) to 5 years (everywhere else.
An easy was for you to consider gifting is to wonder whether we the taxpayers should pay for your loved one's care while he/she HAS money and is GIVING IT AWAY? We shouldn't; right?
If you are at all confused about any of this you should consult and expert attorney. You cannot afford to be wrong in these circumstances, as "wrong" will lead to a world of woe.
By proceeding, I agree that I understand the following disclosures:
I. How We Work in Washington.
Based on your preferences, we provide you with information about one or more of our contracted senior living providers ("Participating Communities") and provide your Senior Living Care Information to Participating Communities. The Participating Communities may contact you directly regarding their services.
APFM does not endorse or recommend any provider. It is your sole responsibility to select the appropriate care for yourself or your loved one. We work with both you and the Participating Communities in your search. We do not permit our Advisors to have an ownership interest in Participating Communities.
II. How We Are Paid.
We do not charge you any fee – we are paid by the Participating Communities. Some Participating Communities pay us a percentage of the first month's standard rate for the rent and care services you select. We invoice these fees after the senior moves in.
III. When We Tour.
APFM tours certain Participating Communities in Washington (typically more in metropolitan areas than in rural areas.) During the 12 month period prior to December 31, 2017, we toured 86.2% of Participating Communities with capacity for 20 or more residents.
IV. No Obligation or Commitment.
You have no obligation to use or to continue to use our services. Because you pay no fee to us, you will never need to ask for a refund.
V. Complaints.
Please contact our Family Feedback Line at (866) 584-7340 or ConsumerFeedback@aplaceformom.com to report any complaint. Consumers have many avenues to address a dispute with any referral service company, including the right to file a complaint with the Attorney General's office at: Consumer Protection Division, 800 5th Avenue, Ste. 2000, Seattle, 98104 or 800-551-4636.
VI. No Waiver of Your Rights.
APFM does not (and may not) require or even ask consumers seeking senior housing or care services in Washington State to sign waivers of liability for losses of personal property or injury or to sign waivers of any rights established under law.
I agree that:
A.
I authorize A Place For Mom ("APFM") to collect certain personal and contact detail information, as well as relevant health care information about me or from me about the senior family member or relative I am assisting ("Senior Living Care Information").
B.
APFM may provide information to me electronically. My electronic signature on agreements and documents has the same effect as if I signed them in ink.
C.
APFM may send all communications to me electronically via e-mail or by access to an APFM web site.
D.
If I want a paper copy, I can print a copy of the Disclosures or download the Disclosures for my records.
E.
This E-Sign Acknowledgement and Authorization applies to these Disclosures and all future Disclosures related to APFM's services, unless I revoke my authorization. You may revoke this authorization in writing at any time (except where we have already disclosed information before receiving your revocation.) This authorization will expire after one year.
F.
You consent to APFM's reaching out to you using a phone system than can auto-dial numbers (we miss rotary phones, too!), but this consent is not required to use our service.
Medicaid uses the concept of fair market value to ensure that assets are not undervalued to gain eligibility.
What is FMV?
Fair market value is the price a willing buyer would pay to a willing seller in an open market, without any undue influence or coercion.
How is FMV determined?
The value is based on criteria used in appraising the value for the purpose of determining Medicaid eligibility.
Example:
If someone sells a house for $100,000 when its fair market value is $200,000, the difference ($100,000) could be considered a transfer of assets for less than FMV, potentially leading to a penalty.
The penalty is always, a denial of benefits until the applicant has paid the difference of fair market value(above scenario would be $100,000 needing to be paid to the facility or you wait till past the lookback time period where applicant is applying for Medicaid).
So, if you are past the lookback period when applying for Medicaid, the stated equity gifting wouldn't matter.
Additionally, most states don’t look at smaller gifting scenarios(usually checks for $1000 or less).
I hope all goes well in your figuring things out. Just remember not to assume anything when dealing with what you are. Knowing will make the process so much smoother and less stressful!
For “value” imho couple of things going on that are different….. if this involves a mortgage, lender is going to more than likely send out their own appraiser &/or inspector to make sure the house is suitable for lending. If that is done, that bank requested appraisal will be its “sale price”.
Otherwise, Value usually based on the most recent tax assessor / tax collector bill. It’s what Medicaid caseworker usually will use as it’s easy to verify by their looking into State courthouse database. If owner or their POA feels assessor value is wrong, they can hire a licensed and registered / certified residential property appraiser to do a valuation, which becomes a new value the caseworker can use. Owner or buyer cannot set value. If property has issues, might be a good idea to have property undergo both an inspection & structural engineering reports. Both done by licensed and registered professionals in your State. Done before the Appraisal & provided to the Appraiser to use if they choose to. These types of reports usually come with State issued professional seal with their info within their seal and they do a signature. They are all viewed as a legal document.
HOWEVER there is a bigger issue in this which is for Medicaid, there is no “gift of equity” allowed. Gifting is gifting whether it’s that grandma wrote a check to you for 50K towards your wedding, or transferred for zero her 200K assessor valued home to you, or paid to your University 20K for tuition, or sold her tax assessor valued 200K home to you with a 75K Gift of Equity to reduce sale price to 125K. Mortgage companies and banks can allow for “gift of equity” but Medicaid doesn’t.
A 5 yr lookback on assets for LTC Medicaid for most States. Any gifting places a transfer penalty against her eligibility to have LTC Medicaid pay for her care. Transfer penalty is based on the day rate your State pays a facilty for LTC Medicaid custodial care. Say your State pays the NH $245 day rate, so a 100K gift is a transfer penalty of 408 DAYS of INELIGIBLITY that is effective as of the date she filed a LTC Medicaid application. For the elder in a NH and their POA, this becomes a crisis situation.
fwiw for the caseworker, if it appears that the gifting action was due to undue influence over a vulnerable adult, the caseworker - as a mandated reporter - has to forward findings to APS / Adult Protective Services. APS will do an investigation and turn over their report to law enforcement. This could become very serious matter for gift recipient to deal with if it’s considered undue influence rather than grandpa makes a costly mistake with his assets.
fwiw, “Gifting of Equity” totally allowed by mortgage lenders. But has a defined list of things that have to be done for lender to place mortgage using this. Lenders will have the exact details. Also taxes involved. It’s not so much that taxes have to be paid as the amount will go against the owners overall lifetime max of 12M. But there are IRS filings that are supposed to be done. Medicaid can have access to IRS, because by filing for LTC Medicaid you sign off to allow for any & all financial database access… like IRS, the credit reporting companies, TAlX/EDR. So gifting will surface one way or another.
LSS it’s a terrible idea.
Now if the OP is forcing the elder to do this, that’s a crime. It’s undue influence on a vulnerable person. It’s a law enforcement issue stemming from an APS filing. Criminal not civil. Unless your spouse or BFF or your kid or your friendly Ex is a criminal defense attorney, it will be some kinda expensive to hire one.
I don’t recall ever reading a Gift of Equity ?/post on this forum. Interesting if this is being touted as a way to for grandparents to show their love and enable you to afford a home you otherwise wouldn’t ever afford. Bad idea.
Do they want to pay for care out of their pockets to cover the gift?
Or do they want to provide care in their home for the loved one until Medicaid considers that gift repaid?
Because as others have mentioned - if any amount of money is gifted during the Look Back period - that money MUST be recovered before Medicaid is approved.
The penalty of gifting money? No Medicaid. During the penalty period, someone either pays for the persons carevor they do the care.
An easy was for you to consider gifting is to wonder whether we the taxpayers should pay for your loved one's care while he/she HAS money and is GIVING IT AWAY?
We shouldn't; right?
If you are at all confused about any of this you should consult and expert attorney.
You cannot afford to be wrong in these circumstances, as "wrong" will lead to a world of woe.