How many people will be ruined before lockdowns end?

Back in March, I heard the President said something to the effect "anyone who wants a test, can get a test". Just curious where were these tests in March that he was talking about? I remember at a news conference where it was mentioned that Walmart, CVS, Walgreen, Ride-Aide, and Target would be setting up testing sites in their parking lot. Four months later, zero, in my area [Wash DC burbs].

The first week in June, our county health service was able to bring to the people a drive-thru testing site. There were so many cars, that cars were being turned away hours before the testing ended. The county is trying to schedule another test. That is how desperate people are for testing.... [sigh].

Yup. Taking care of a demented incontinent elder with mobility issues in your home while trying to raise teenagers...just a walk in the park.

The American Conservative is one of those publications that thinks that things were just great on the 1950s. When women stayed home.

It reminds of the Mental Health Act of 1963. That shut down the me tal institutions ( which were terrible places). These were supposed to be replaced by Community Mental Health clinics (those ever got funded). Which is why you have schizophrenics living on the streets not taking their meds. And sometimes hearing voices telling them to do terrible things.

Your society gets what it PAYS for.

I'm very cranky today. In case you can't tell.

From the article: "wherever possible, we should depopulate these facilities by helping families provide in-home care. The cost of elder care is extraordinary and is a burden too great for most households which, despite their love and desire, lack the time, knowledge, and skill. We should support in-home care directly with a generous subsidy that covers the lion’s share of costs and, through paid family leave, give families the flexibility to be home when sickness demands it. "

Here we go again. Punt it back to the families, which usually means a daughter (or sometime daughter-in-law) shoulders the burden. "Helping families provide in-home care"? That almost always means too little help.

Geaton, there are still NHs that are h3ll holes and prove every fear that seniors have of being placed.

It takes research and maybe a move to find a good facility.

I know from personal experience that you can find one that has good reviews and is clean, offers loads of activities and yet they are just warehouses for seniors, no actual care and it is all minimal everything from food to therapies to medication distribution.

So finding the best facility takes someone that cares about the senior and is willing to truly advocate for them.

Interesting article. So, if social isolation is so terrible for seniors, why do so many of them want to remain isolated in their too-big-for-them-anymore homes?

Why do they resist moving into care centers? How is someone so terribly socially isolated if they have staff that dispenses meds, delivers meals, even if at a distance?

Those studies that are cited were done on seniors LIVING IN THEIR OWN HOMES.

I haven't checked, but I'd be curious to see if the funding for those studies came from the AL industry. Might be instructive.

Thought I would share an interesting read "Continued Isolation Will Kill More Elderly: Is endless quarantine really the best we can do for our loved ones?"
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/continued-isolation-will-kill-more-elderly/

One sentence I found particularly powerful: "...Endless isolation is inhumane and deadly. It is a method of torture. A punishment inflicted upon the most depraved. It dehumanizes and is the essence of monstrosity..."

I hope anyone who reads the article will comment here.

FIL's indy living is still not letting in family. It's getting to be absurd. He can't even get a haircut.

Speaking of haircuts, barbershops and salons have suffered dramatically, and while I agree that many businesses were already "sick" before the pandemic, most barbershops and salons do a brisk business and have a loyal clientele. People in this line of work including owners are not filthy rich. They are hardworking people, and this shutdown is going to set them back so much that most may never regain what they lost. It's heartbreaking.

I heard you should carry with your actual copper pennies, since copper kills the virus.

Now it's the coronovirus Pandemic, vs Peaceful protests and looters, just as our cities were trying to get more places to open..Curfew time is 6:00 pm. And if you look like you are standing in a crowd that's protesting, you too can be arrested!
Fun times all around. I wish I could post the sunset tonight. Gorgeous. i just wish everyone could just step outside and notice a beautiful piece of nature, and take all it in for what it's worth. I thought the sunset was beautful from my spot, but my friend took it outside her home. No filter, just pure beauty.

Today's stock market summary from the Wall Street Journal:
"Stocks Climb as Optimism Builds
The Dow Jones Industrial Average surged on optimism that economic activity is gathering steam and authorities may offer more stimulus to bolster the recovery..."

I realize untold numbers of people have suffered profound financial losses. In 38 years of business my husband (and business partner) and I have weathered recessions, 911, the mortgage crisis and now this. All the businesses that have recently gone under were already "sick" before the lockdown. It just hastened things. I am personally very confident of a recovery and there will be new, different opportunities to be had.

Apparently you can be exposed and come up with antibodies without having been demonstrably " sick".

I will let you know what the test results are when we get them. And yes, it was an amazing trip. Flew to Rome and spent several days there, boarded an NCL ship which stopped at the Middle Eastern ports. Then flew from Abu Dhabi to Amsterdam and had a lovely 8 hour layover. Couldn't visit my niece who lives there because a colleague has just returned from a skiing vacation in the Italian Alps and hugged everyone upon return. Automatic quarantine for the colleagues and him.

Barb,
A couple traveling on a cruise ship in January and had to be quarantined when the ship was quarantined in Japan. The wife never got it.
Even though exposed, and near to people with the virus.

Barb, I hope you test antibody positive and have immunity going forward; it would certainly make your lives easier.

In my opinion NYC got hit so hard and fast by CV because it is a major international business and travel hub. More infected people entered NYC and then came into contact with hundreds of people before we really knew how contagious CV would be. The great Metro system probably contributed to making the spread worse. NYC and NYS are not the only major cities or states who had pandemic plans but had not maintained the stockpiles of supplies their own plans required. Before CV hit, those "missing" stockpiles were not considered a "big deal" by either media or residents. With 20-20 rear view vision, now this is a major failure by all current office holders as society starts playing the blame game. Have our political leaders made bad mistakes handling CV? Yes, they have. But they have also made a lot of good decisions and spending a lot of time on the blame game while we are still under fire seems foolish to me. Acknowledge the mistake, learn from it, and move forward. I can not believe Cuono sent CV positive residents back to LTC because he wanted to kill off elders or even didn't care. I believe he somehow didn't appreciate the impact of his directive would be at the time. He was apparently focused on defending the hospitals, made a mistake and thousands died because of it. We all have to live with the results and maybe we can learn something for the next pandemic. Maybe feeling "burned" by not recognizing the CV risk earlier is one of the reasons Cuono is delaying reopening because he is just so fearful of getting it wrong again.

I also believe as soon as our President was briefed on the possible casualties from CV, he followed every recommendation and did everything in his power to save lives. Everyone was all over Trump for his early travel bands, yet other world leaders followed his example days and weeks later. Without those travel bans, what happened in NYC could have been repeated in every major city with an international airport. Trump and the federal agencies, including the CDC and NIH, have also made mistakes but overall they have accomplished the most important part of the mission. No one in an American hospital has been denied a ventilator because one was not available.

As bad as things are right now, it could have been so much worse and I am thankful for all the things that went right and all the first line workers who made it happen. The media keeps banging on all the things that went wrong and invites us to be angry and depressed, to demonize the leaders who have made obvious mistakes. I chose to focus on all the things that went right and be peaceful and optimistic. I may be very wrong, but at least my days will be brighter until my "wrongness" is proven.

TN, had a 59 yo friend die of a stroke here in nyc. It was coded explicitly as non-covid. I dont know about elsewhere. One of my kids has now lost 3 HS friends (all 38, all POC) to COVID.

DH and I got NYC antibody testing yesterday. We haven't been ill but were in Italy, Israel, Egypt, Jordan, Oman, UAE and Amsterdam during February and early March. Everyplace we left exploded with COVID right after we left; it seems as though we have probably been exposed. Will know in a few days.

I thought Aging Care had a policy against political postings.

If y'all really want to go off topic, read about how Sears Roebuck allowed people of color in the South to buy quality goods at a fair price. Stopped one small part of Jim Crow.

Progress has its costs and benefits.

And if anyone wants to challenge the death toll in NYC, please show up here and take a look. I understand that the middle of the country is not as affected. We are.

I sincerely hope that opening up parts of the country works out. It will be a great engine to restart the economy. My kids (20s and 30 year olds) are suffering.

Just trying not to kill imumo-compromised grandpa and 91 yo great grandma.

What does this bs have to do with care of elderly? Take your rant elsewhere. Every complaint you have is due to the complete incompetence of the "Hoaxer". Other countries are seeing the end of the tunnel, we can't even see the tunnel. Time to vote Trump and all his wealth making buddies out. They really don't care about you, or me.

Bureau of Labor Statistics data, around 1 in 5 new small business fail in their first year, and about 1 in 2 of small businesses fail in their fifth year.

If one goes back into history we will find....

W. T. Grant and Woolworth were the downfall of many a small Mom & Pop business.

Sears, Montgomery Ward, and JC Penney were the downfall of W.T. Grant and Woolworth.

Walmart, Sams Club, BJ's, K-Mart, Caldor were the downfall of many a grocery store and smaller stores.

Then comes Amazon which was the downfall of Sears, J C Penney, K-Mart, Toys R Us, HH Gregg, Linens 'n Things, Sports Authority, Borders Books, Gymboree, Dress Barn, Payless shoes, The Gap, Lord & Taylor, and many others.... [sigh]

The C-19 virus is nudging closing of stores/restaurants a bit quicker.

California is really starting to open up now. Retail stores, shopping malls, hair salons, nail salon as, barbershops and restaurants in most counties can open (but with social distancing). My county isn’t on the list yet because apparently they must ask dictator Newsom for permission. They voted today to ask for permission to move foreword and it’s expected to be granted and they will immediately amend the county order. It’s wonderful news but for many small businesses, it’s too late. The damage is done.

We’re seeing family again. Zero regrets. Saw my in-laws on Mother’s Day, and again on Sunday for my nephews birthday. Zero regrets. Life is too short. Tomorrow isn’t promised. We are all luckily to be young & healthy so there is no reason for us to stop living. Staying at home isn’t living. In a few weeks the kids & I will go up to my parents house across state lines. My parents are high risk and they stayed home for the first 2 months and now they are over it. Life must go on and with their health problems, they could each go at any time so it makes absolutely no sense for them to live in isolation and not see their daughter and grandchildren. Both have survived health crisis this year that many do not survive. So....life is going on for us and it’s what’s best for US.

And of course the media.....making a big deal people dared to go outside over Memorial Day weekend. It’s been 80 degrees the last 3 days. Lots of people headed to the coast with their masks on and enjoyed the beautiful weather. And it’s all over the local news. It’s pitiful. They are evening saying it was all TOURISTS! HAHAHAHA! Lies lies lies! They want us to think that this horrible tourist invasion is going to lead to a massive surge in positive cases and we will be forced to SIP even longer. Hahahahaha jokes on them because the governor and the county are moving forward to phase 3!

NYDaughterInLaw, I can understand your point of view.

You must remember the last "recovery" (worst recovery in US History) was guided by an anti-business, anti-ownership, anti-worker, pro-regulation mind set. The slow recovery was not a fundamental weakness in our economy, but rather the "drain" or burden government regulations extracted. That's why the economy took off so fast when Trump started rolling back the extra federal burdens.

Your viewpoint is also driven by your expensive state government. NYS is far richer than TN; however, NYS is not as financially sound. Because the NYS revenue stream is driven by income taxes, the state government is much larger (500-1500%) per cap than states without income taxes and any employment hit immediately causes revenue reductions. NYS was already in revenue trouble because it has been shedding high wage earners to lower taxation states; now the sudden lost of revenue as spending continued and even increased has created a big problem. NYS is looking for increasing revenue and not cutting costs much yet. TN has a balanced state budget, no state income tax, no state debt for operational expenditures, and a cash on hand contingency fund for rainy days. The first thing TN state government did when CV hit was shutdown visitation to all LTC facilities. The second was the state legislature authorized the governor to shut down all discretionary spending/projects and move money and people into departments impacted by CV. The third was to get the schools closed and hospitals shutting down elective procedures. So far TN projects we can survive CV revenue impacts by delaying some state projects and using 10-25% of the contingency fund since our revenue is mainly sales tax based and people spending unemployment checks are still paying some sales tax. The state unemployment fund has enough money thru Dec at the current record pay out level. The state continues to have problems/delays processing unemployment claims that require hands on review; the automatically processed claims go through in 2-3 days.

NYS residents and business owners are also experiencing more state interference in "restarting" the economy. TN businesses are open with social distancing guidelines for everything except large entertainment venues and those can open Jun 1 while our daily testing numbers go up and our confirmed cases and deaths go down.  In my area, the local small businesses are surviving better than the national chains, a lot of people are working 32 hours instead of 40+ but most people are working some or drawing unemployment. Every restaurant now has carry out (even ones who didn't pre-CV) and a lot of people are now accustomed to carry out. Our Healthcare systems (who had to furlough people when elective procedures were shut down) are bringing employees back and plan to be at full capacity by June 30. While some businesses are down several others are hiring additional employees (delivery is big and will mostly likely remain high demand as families prefer their seniors avoid crowds). The state parks have opened but announced none of the pools in the parks will be opening this summer, so we are expecting a higher number of drownings as people with swim or wade in streams, rivers, and lakes. Only one of our local cities is opening an outdoor pool, but several indoor pools will open Jun 1. Our food banks were hit hard during late March and early April, but have returned to near normal need levels as the unemployment checks got going. When NYS allows more businesses to restart, I believe you will see your local economies spring back faster than you can believe right now. Traffic on our streets was dead a month ago; today it's 80-90% of normal. NYS is risking getting more businesses across the tipping point where they will not be able to reopen by trying to micro-manage everything. There are hard times and difficult choices ahead in both our states, but we can make it through to better days!

"...now we just need to build an economic recovery." I used to feel optimistic that we could do it. I remember feeling like Americans are good at reinventing ourselves and our communities. I've lost almost all hope. So many people and communities have been left behind since the last "recovery" and are devastated.

40 million Americans are now unemployed. Most of their jobs are not coming back anytime soon or at all. Many are making more money on unemployment than they were working.

The problems seem insurmountable, especially because each of the 50 states is going to take a different approach to economic recovery. It's going to be a mess. At this point, I don't even know where to start to build an economic recovery. Perhaps more people need to become freelancers. Others will need to go to a trade school and learn hard skills. The next wave of unemployment is going to hit middle managers. I hope they've been saving for a rainy day because it's hurricane season.

This is the greatest tragedy to befall America since the Great Depression. And I don't believe that after so many decades of having the rich getting richer and poor getting poor that Americans are as resilient as those who came out of the Great Depression.

With everything we now know about the transmission & fatality rate I sincerely ask how could you be “for” all these Draconian rules that should be reserved for A legitimately fatal disease? This flu with a 99 % recovery rate is not it! These lockdowns & rules were justified in the 1st 2 weeks have morphed into a control & obedience situation which has NOTHING to do with protection of people’s health- please do your research on what “contact tracing “ really is before you give yourself in to it... Yes many people are being affected & terrorized by the mainstream media because their job is to create a climate of fear & control. Even deaths from Cancer & heart attacks & people who Are in hospice are being “counted “ as corona virus in order to increase the amount. My neighbor is a nurse in Los Angeles- works full time & relays that for weeks now there are virtually NO deaths from Corona at all!! Mayors are holding people hostage for payouts & it’s time to say enough is enough. Please seek alternative news sources it will save you a lot of stress & anxiety and bring all these “rules “ into perspective for you. My 95 year old grandmother was cautious during the initial 2 weeks but now knows how much exaggeration is taking place & does not worry anymore. She is against most of these ridiculous rules & says that the “contact tracing” agenda reminds her of Nazi Germanys travesties.....The only rational & realistic option at this point is to develop herd immunity which will lead to this virus’ demise. Please do not ignore your God given common sense . Take care:)

Mally, Hope you get your wish. But things change. I moved to a small rural beach in NC in 1970. It had 378 year round residents. Two small Protestant churches. Stayed that way for several years, but then Boom it was discovered by folks from NY and NJ. By 1984 the population was 68,000. All local government offices were held by the new residents. Instead of soft southern drawls, it was pure NY and NJ accents. It’s still that way today. There are three Catholic Churches, a mosque and a large Jewish congregation. Absolutely nothing wrong with any of the changes. It’s more liberal, a more inclusive population and it’s just the way things turn out sometimes. We wanted a cooler climate and moved to northern Maine in 1984. It’s changed too since 1984. More and more people from away. More and more changes. None of them necessarily bad, just change. It happens and you can’t stop it.

NewYork, Well, I AM very happy to live here in the "sticks" in a state with a smaller population and easier restrictions. Unfortunately, many people from cities are moving here now to get away from it all, and the demographics are changing. They won't be allowed to ruin the conservative/western character of the state, though, as they haven't in several other states near us, but most of us find many of them very hard to talk to; they'll have to make friends with each other. I can say this because 23 years ago WE came here from Colorado, and that's how it was; quite a few others gave up and left, we are still here, partly because it IS safer here, and partly because we have common values.

Great post on both sides. I believe we have two extremes going on. Those who say the heck with it and do whatever we want, and those who want to stay in their bedrooms until a vaccine is developed

There has to be a middle way. Resuming life, but taking precautions like distancing, masks, et al.

It’s safe to go a beach. Even one that is crowded. I live 10 minutes from the beach. Don’t let the media fool you. They’re purposely showing angles that make it look everyone is close together when they aren’t.

At this point it’s time to stop the shaming. If you are afraid of the virus, it’s ok to continue to stay home in isolation.

if you are high risk, it’s ok to stay home in isolation. likewise, it’s ok to venture out and get a taste of this “new normal”.

If your city/county has been under SIP orders for the last 2 months and you are OVER IT and ready to start living with the virus instead of in fear of it, that’s ok!

This virus isn’t going anyway. We are YEARS away from having a vaccine & seeing the results of it. This “stay home” lifestyle isn’t sustainable and there are many things we can do safely like play golf, hike or go to the beach.

There is really no reason for the young & the healthy to stop living. I’ll say it again—I am not staying home and putting my life on hold so people who have lived twice as long as me, can stay alive a few more years. Selfish are the folks demanding we all stay home while they simultaneously are able to stay home because they’ve passed on the risk to essential workers! Selfish are the people demanding we all stay home, while their income and livelihood hasn’t been affected. 35+ million unemployed all over a virus with a 98% survival rate. People MUST get back to work.

Suicides are up 300%. Would be nice if the media sensationalized the hell out of that instead of “crowded beaches”.

FF- I'm sorry about your boss. He should have taken better care of himself. I'm sure he had underlying health conditions, otherwise a healthy person wouldn't keel over dead like that.

As for the beach, I live near the beach and I go to the beach often. Even on the busiest day at the beach on a normal year, and there were tons of people at the beach, there is so much open space that no one was ever, ever elbow to elbow with another unless they were in the same group.

I just came back from the beach a few hours ago, lots of people, and everyone respect and keep distance, way more than 6 feet. You can NOT tell accurate distances from looking at pictures or videos.

You have a HIGHER risk of getting the virus at your local market check out line than walking at the beach.

At the check out line, you're 6 feet away, at the beach, you are usually at least 10-20 feet or more away from the next person. Also, at the market, things you touch and put down were mostly likely been touched by others before you, then others will touch those same items after you. Nothing like that happens at the beach.

Let's compare the number of people per CUBIC feet, inside the market vs. open space at the beach, there is NO comparison since the sky is the limit vs. the ceiling at the market.

How about the recycled air inside the market vs. the clean open sea air? Again, no comparison.

At the beach:
--you get constant salty sea breezes that clean the air you breath.
--the dry hot sand kills bacteria and viruses in minutes
--the extremely salty water also kills bacteria and viruses
--the UV rays of the sun will also kill bacteria and viruses

So what I can see and observe, the chance of getting the virus at the beach is practically zero.

I just wanted to update on this thread, had mentioned it on another. Regarding my post of May 18th, well my boss passed on the 21th.

I am both heartbroken and also angry. Angry because his death could have been prevented if he would have listened to the medical experts about precautions.... so sad.

My boss was at the golf course for his tee time when he felt so tired he couldn't get out of his car. Then it went down hill from there :(

Did anyone see the world news this evening? OMG, there was film of people all crammed together in a water park.... another of crowded beaches. Is life so throw away that one would risk becoming ill or catching the virus to pass onto others, just to go the the beach or water park?

NY DIL: I think there's so much hype, taken from health experts' advice and converted to mass media. One chain supermarket has announcements regularly, boringly repeating the standard mantras from the experts, as if anyone who reads online news or listens to guidelines on tv hasn't already heard them, and as if the supermarket has discovered something unique to share with the shoppers.

And all this goes on while some people still refuse to wear masks, yet the management to my knowledge hasn't acted on it, despite signs on the doors. The staff shouldn't be responsible for removing the non-maskers, especially given the hostility some of them show when challenged.

On Friday I saw at least a dozen people not masking, including one couple who I thought were classic high risks. Both were morbidly obese, slovenly, and cutting through aisles as they pleased.

I was thinking that eventually stores may have entrance monitoring, with some type of digital or photographic methods of highlighting noncompliers and barring their way, something like the subway turnstiles.

This all seems so dystopian, yet it may be necessary if people fail to comply.

Another thing I'd like to see implemented would unfortunately be a breach of medical ethics, but it's that anyone who admits to not wearing a mask in public be triaged for lower level attention. Why should noncompliers benefit from the same level of priority as compliers?

Update: just got a call from MIL's facility. She has a fever and low oxygen, so they are testing her and we'll know in 48 hrs. Her reputable, very well-managed facility locked down tight immediately and has been extremely diligent. No visits. All deliveries/mail/flowers are quarantined for 24-48 hrs. Staff and residents constantly monitored. Not only did they have masks, they had face shields as well. Everyone has PPE. If her facility can't keep out the virus, what hope does anyone have of avoiding it? I can't help but think we are putting too much stock in the protection of the face masks. I'm not advocating to not wear them -- just saying they may not be the protection we think they are. Ugh.