How many people will be ruined before lockdowns end?

I just read an article that says masks not properly cared for are actually more hazardous than no mask at all.

So, not washing them everyday, hanging them under your chin, that kind of behavior can put you at greater risk because you are trapping bacteria in your face.

Sheesh, it never ends with the conflict of what to do.

I think it is a whole lot of good old fashion cleanliness that has apparently become obsolete and cost prohibitive. What?!? I am making a list of businesses that I will not ever shop in again. These places should have been doing thorough cleanings at a minimum of weekly and heavy traffic areas daily. What has this world come to?

Wear your mask people! It saves lives!! Wear it every time you go out in public.

I will keep my answer short, honest, and simple.... A LOT.. and a lot more than that...
Why did this disease pop up? So many different reasons from so many people..
How, why, where, what?
Bats? Hygiene? culture of edibles? politics? no particular reason? Who,what, where, why.... the world as we know it, is changing.
This world is so much smaller nowadays... and has been, but now, we can't turn our necks... Well, my neck doesn't turn too well now anyway.. The poor guy behind me at grocery store only had one item... This mask I'm wearing steams up the reading glasses I need to read a label, is not comforting, so now I don't look around or beside me, nowadays. behind me (social or public distancing-whatever you name it) not much anywhere except in front... so he had to wait for my cart of groceries.. Normally I would have allowed him to go ahead of me... I felt bad...
He didn't seem to realize it either,,, so I guess it was ok....
I notice when I smile at someone... they are not smiling back.... :-[ Why.. I suppose is they too as I am are wearing a mask,,, we only see eyes. and sometimes they too seem "masked" over..

Getting infected with the virus is NOT the death sentence that the media drills into everyone's head day in and day out. Unless you are in very poor health, you have little to fear. Most elderly in NH are in very poor health so that's why they make up the majority of the dead.

From one report I read, less than 30% of those admitted to hospitals for the virus need intensive care, that means more than 70% are not serious cases. And for those 80+ years old that are in the hospital, 90% will survive. Yes, 90% of old and weak 80 y.o. or older will survive the virus. I read somewhere that a 100 y,o. lady/man (?) contracted the virus and survived.

Healthy and even not so healthy people getting the virus is not something to get hysterical about. They/we will survive and their bodies will build antibodies to protect them against the virus if they come in contact again. The population as a whole can develop herd immunity.

My cousin (50 y.o.) who is a front line nurse got infected, and he recovered after a couple of weeks. A friend (late 40s and overweight ) got infected, and she recovered. And there are millions of survivors that the media won't talk about because that would not fit into their narrative.

Please people, stop this hysteria. People die everyday from all sorts of causes. Are we going to hide like this every flu season, too? How about abolish cars so no one will die from car accidents?

FF, I'm sorry, too, but am more concerned for you. I know you've been careful and precautionary, and hopefully your boss' careless attitude won't affect you. He has grandchildren, doesn't he? I wonder if any of his family have been affected.

Be safe, good friend; I'll be thinking of you and hoping that you are safe and don't become ill. I think though that since you didn't have direct contact with him and have protected yourself otherwise, you have a good chance of remaining safe.

Oh, FF, so sorry to hear about your boss!

Two weeks ago my boss wanted me to come back to work [I was working from home] and I dug in my heels and said no. I told him I am listening to the scientists and will follow their suggestions. My boss reply was pretty much "the scientists don't know what they are talking about".

My boss was out and about, even playing golf. Whenever I did pop into the office to grab a file I made sure he wasn't there, and washed my hands several times as we have a bar sink in our suite. I noticed the foam soap was always at the same level as when the last time I used it, so I knew my boss wasn't washing his hands.

Lo and behold, I get a call the other day, my boss is in the hospital with the C-19 virus. I hope he pulls through.

I worry about how many people my boss had infected along the way.... [sigh]. Such as putting his hands on the door handle of the exterior door of the building... pushing the elevator button inside and out.... hand on the door handle to our office.... the TV remote.... the coffee maker... file drawers.... telephone receiver/buttons.... anything metal or heavy plastic.

My primary doctor has Quest testing on-site, so I went there. The test is a blood test, not a swab test. So far I haven't been infected.

As for age, as I had mentioned before, my sig-other works at a cemetery. This virus know no age. It can hit anyone.

Be safe, my friends.

OK, just another rant on here.. and believe me I do appreciate all the love people are throwing at the healthcare workers, I really do, But my giant hospital is covered with signs saying how we are healthcare heros, how much they love us.. etc. So a week ago all the employees got a email that we will not be getting raises or contributions to our retirements,, for 2 years!. Nice time to tell us that! Seems the hospital is taking a financial hit from the virus.. even though most of the ICUs and units have already converted back to normal! And we have so many "Vice Presidents" of this and that that we joke every time we get a memo that "that will need a new VP" Maybe fire a few of them and pass the money down to those of us who are actually working the front lines! Even the meal deliveries we get are not from the hospital,, they are from wonderful local businesses and pt families! Every time I leave work, and go to pay the $13. they charge me to park every shift I want to kick those dang signs!

Isthisrealyreal - We the people cannot allow things to go back to business as usual. It's our choice where we shop. It's our choice which businesses we support. It's our choice which doctors we see!

Speaking about doctors, I had a telemedicine followup with a hand surgeon (nothing serious), and it was both safe and convenient for me. When I went to see him the first time he didn't touch my hand. After keeping me waiting in the waiting room for nearly 90 minutes, he asked me to do some moves and saw me for all of 5 minutes. When his secretary scheduled the follow-up, I asked for telehealth and she was like "Well, he doesn't like it so if he wants to see you in person, I'll reschedule you." Oh really???!!!

Real, you have great point. We should all be careful for both our self and others. And use common sense and consideration.

I think what people want is the politicians to trust them to be careful, and not use this for power hunger

dboyer, you are correct, the numbers are suspect.

I just find it very sad that people are back to business as usual and not social distancing and using common sense to protect the vulnerable population.

We have been blessed that our lives didn't really change during the lockdown. We have been able to continue to work, we wear masks and gloves, sanitize items that get lots of handling. To see people not being careful is sad.

We don't fear this virus, we have faith that we are protected. We just want to help protect those that can't protect themselves and I believe that means doing lots of hand washing, social distancing in tight quarters and keeping our breath contained in case we are carriers.

It is so unfortunate that the media has misled the people, now they don't believe that it is really an issue, so they are not using common sense and good hygiene. That is what I have seen since Friday.

NYDIL, to elaborate on what my issues are with hospitalists, I have seen them wait until the advocate leaves the room to talk with a semi conscious person that is out of their head, then put a DNR in their chart. I have seen them misinterpret what has been said and chart their error causing unnecessary tests or lack thereof.

I escorted an elderly woman to the ER and they kept trying to run me off, I refused and they didn't have a clue what was wrong until my husband said, it appears that she is having a stroke, shouldn't they have recognized the very obvious symptoms?

They have the attitude that they know more about you than you do and they don't listen to anything the patient or advocate is saying.

They refuse to give information in laymen terms so that they can be understood and they are easily offended, which is a huge red flag for me.

I could go on and on about the lack of professionalism and lack of care, they seem to have missed the part about doing no harm.

Oh, they also tend to wear their name tags turned inwards and I have actually had 1 refuse to turn it so I could see his name. Then lied to administration when I complained.

It is just gut wrenching that medical errors are the 3rd leading cause of death, yet the media hides this information from the public. But the above attitudes are a breeding ground for experimentation on human beings.

I had been avoiding this thread, but just read through all of it.

I have to say I am so very happy that I live in BC and have Dr. Bonnie Henry as our Chief Medical Officer at the helm of our Covid-19 ship. I feel Canadians are also lucky to have a federal government that is not making this a partisan issue.

Canada has offered considerable financial support to Canadians who are not working due to Covid-19. $2000 per month for up to 4 months, money for students who are unable to find a summer job, business loans and more. Yes, it will have to be paid back over time, but it is better to keep families and businesses afloat so they will have the ability to pay taxes in the future.

We never had a lock down in BC. Some businesses, such as personal care were forced to close, and restaurants had to do take out to delivery, but most were allowed to stay open, clothing stores, garden centres, mechanics and more. What has been emphasized is social distancing, staying 2m or 6 feet apart when outside of our homes. Grocery stores limit the number of customers inside and have one way aisles to limit contact between customers.

As of Tuesday we are entering phase 2 and personal care businesses can reopen as long as they meet safety rules. We can increase the number of people in our social bubble.

Most schools and all universities did close and as of next week elementary schools will reopen (school year ends June 30th), but families will have to option of sending their kids back to school or continuing to home school them.

Here in Canada the hardest hit populations have been seniors in care facilities and more recently meat and produce packing plants. One oil camp was infected too and workers heading home from it dispersed it to other communities.

One thing BC residents were asked to do, not a health order, was to stay away from second/vacation/recreation properties. This I have not followed. I have on three occasions gone to our beach property. I bring all my groceries with me and as I have over 7 acres and our place is at the end of the road, there is no risk of be being a vector and spreading it in this community.

Our neighbour at the cabin has done the same. No I have not been visiting when them, but I see them on the beach and the dogs come over to play with mine.

My big challenge and it is a serious one, is finding a job. I graduated from university this month and very few companies in my field of study are hiring. I have a healthy emergency fund and am sure I will find a professional position before those funds run out. I am willing to take a menial job in the mean time to help extend my funds.

Many are struggling now with these questions; with all the hardships whether financial or emotional or health. I wish you strength to endure. We will all get through this. My parents had so many stories of the depression. We have not had to face a whole lot in the current generations as Americans. Our time has come. You raise many thoughtful points. Wishing you luck as we continue to endure. Many are struggling with the best way forward. Many are in need. Many are very frightened.

Colorado governor is pushing back on the COVID death counts. Those numbers being reported are inflated because they include those who died with the virus or suspected of having the virus, but didn't die because of the virus.

I'd like to see a large scale investigation of all the death counts around the country to see how many actually died of the virus and how many were fraudulently included so that the hospitals could charge more money.

I agree Ny daughter, people should be allowed to work at their business while taking safety precautions. People have family to support.

Some people out there think if you go back to work, you are hurting people. No, you can be safe and practical at the same time.

Long term lockdown isn't practical. Just find safe ways to do things instead.

Thank you for replying, thepianist. Everyone is deteriorating. Everyone's mental wellbeing is declining. We cannot keep healthy people locked up and left to decline out of fear of this virus. Everyone matters. Young people matter!

We need to come together and figure our way out of it together. Government is not the answer to this problem - government is the problem. Communities and families need to solve this problem together. People are the government. We are the government. At least in the USA, we are the people and we are the ones who are supposed to be forming a more perfect union.

Yet, we the people did take our eyes off the ball and left much too much to "the government". Going to the voting booth and then thinking that our civic duty is done is not how it works. We have to come together and shrink faceless government bureaucracy, fire the politicians, take back the money they waste on their political pet projects, and be vigilant about what's left of our democracy.

If we cannot trust each other then truly all is lost.

One thing ruined is trust in government. I'm not sure whether that's good or bad, given the current government. I know that we would all feel safer if we could trust our government leaders and our government agencies. None seem to have much credibility now.

When I saw the question I assumed it would be about how this lockdown is affecting those living in personal care (assisted living) homes, many with some degree of dementia, who are unable to have family visits, who get very little individual attention from aides (understaffing), sit in their rooms alone for most of the day including mealtimes, have very few activities among resident (there is no virus in the place at all yet, thankfully). They are not thriving. They are deteriorating cognitively and physically because of the last of activity. And the home is simply not creative abouf finding safe alternatives for the residents. At the end of this I believe I will find my family member whose functioning has deteriorated. If anyone on this forum has any ideas, please speak up! We simply cannot keep the elderly locked up and left to decline, out of fear of this virus.

This is part 2 See my first response below.

Regarding vaccines
The Government passed a law some years ago saying that if a vaccine was produced in good faith ( and they all are) then the pharmaceutical company could not be sued if something was wrong and the vaccine was made using proper techniques.
This is why BIG Pharma is making vaccines for EVERYTHING now. When I grew up there were like 6 vaccines - now there is something like 22.

A note about immunity
As we age vaccines become LESS EFFECTIVE. This information is readily available on the CDC website and yet no one ever reads it. They push flu vaccines on the elderly and yet never tell them the WHOLE truth.

I am not against vaccines- some of them are absolutely life saving- but I do believe that NO information should be kept from the public , including the money incentives and things like the fact that the flu vaccine is only 60% effective .

You are either from the camp that believes everyone is stupid and needs to be told what to do ( a camp which I feel is very patronizing and condescending), or you are like me, and feel that given ALL the information people, are perfectly capable of making decisions which are right for them.
As far as COVID-19 and quarantine. I think politicians are politicizing this virus and trying to force people to choose a party. The FACT is if you feel comfortable going out you should be able to and if you are too afraid you can stay home. No one should be trying to tell anyone what to do. People are smart enough to make their own choices. People who have a higher risk should be staying home, they have been warned. They said Georgia was gonna go up in flames for opening early and Georgia cases continue to go down.
Yesterday I went out to Lowes. This particular Lowes is just outside a 55 snd older community in my state. I was surprised to find many active seniors shopping at Lowes with no face masks on!! They were all zooming round with their carts like BRING IT!!! LOL. A life lived in fear and confinement is called prison. I am in healthcare so I certainly believe in everything the scientists say. But I also have been in medicine for over 30 yrs and I know about every decade or so the scientists who were certain about something 10 yrs ago have to come out and apologize for being wrong. Eggs are evil bad for you cause heart attacks!! OOpsie we were wrong about eggs they are ok! TYLENOL is good for you! NO ones allergic to it KIDS can have it its great stuff!!! OOOpsie Tylenol causes liver failure. Be smart. be safe and look for answers then make a choice best for you!

I am a nurse
I could say so much on this topic
The media makes everyone absolutely hysterical
For example with respect to masks. The CDC has said for years that masks can actually increase the spread of respiratory illness because people touch their faces more and dont dispose of them properly ect,. Even healthcare workers have lapses and this is why you see them getting infected despite masking gowning and gloves. The CDC has actually done studies on the use of masks and this is why at the beginning of this crisis they advised people not to wear masks in public.
I realize that at first glance people see healthcare workers wearing masks and immediately think; they are wearing them, why shouldn't we? But the reason we wear them is because we are intimately more involved in pt care. We handle their body fluids, dress them, handle their eating and drinking utensils, clean up after them, and we can be in their personal space for long periods of time. We also sometimes give them respiratory treatments which is much more dangerous. And again , as I mentioned even we still manage sometimes to infect ourselves and we have been taught how to handle these things. The media is where I first saw masks being pushed for regular people outdoors. In an effort to try , yet again, to stick it to Trump they spread misinformation and persisted so much that the CDC & Fauci ( who publically said masks were more for mental health then anything) gave up on their studies and guidelines & said ok fine we will recommend masks.

This mask issue has been going on a long time in healthcare. Way before Covid-19 . It began with Flu vaccines. Given a choice 60% of healthcare workers would refuse a flu vaccine. There are many reasons why, but eventually the US government told hospital systems that if they did not have a 90% compliance rate with the flu vaccine they would take 2% of their medicare profits - that is why most hospitals now force healthcare workers to get vaccinated . ( yeah I know MONEY). The reason I know so much about the mask issue is because I refused to get a flu vaccine every year, which meant my employer tried to force me to wear a mask all the time. So I researched masking myself and thats when I discovered the CDC did not recommend them, had done studies on their efficacy, and found they might worsen circumstances and so every year at work I would give my managers a lot of pushback because of it.

My personal experience confirms what the CDC has found- you touch your face more, you have a dirty mask on and touch the mask, and then you touch surfaces and when you are talking about having it on for hours - its easy to forget. Handwashing is VERY effective- social distancing is also VERY effective. Masks I suggest you research on your own- I am not asking anyone to take my word for it.
I also would like to speak about the numbers of dead and dying. Again they are doing with covid-19 what they have done for decades with the flu. They combine the death totals with those who have other chronic illnesses. People with chronic illness such as heart disease, diabetes, and obesity have ALWAYS been at greater risk with ANY respiratory illness. This is exactly the same as it is with flu. It is the same weather you have covid -19, the flu, or the common cold- people with those illnesses are always at greater risk .

With flu they also combine pneumonia deaths with flu so the numbers are inflated. For example lets say you have the common cold and COPD. You develop pneumonia and die. If its flu season they will say you died of the flu, weather or not you actually tested positive for it.

Something else I discovered doing my research on flu- many doctors at the CDC have jobs with BIG PHARMA companies. They also own STOCK in those companies. So when a company makes a medication or vaccine and a doctor at the CDC recommends that medication they make money off of it.

I’m so disappointment this argument has come to this forum about caring for the aged. Repulsive.

Did anyone else see the articles that list the financial incentives for caring for covid cases? 20% extra, 100% if uninsured and an extra 30% if intubated.

Could this be the reason that people being rushed to the ER for a heart attack are being labeled as covid positive?

I personally distrust any results that have financial implications for certain results or outcomes. It is truly no different than what we read time after time right here about how low people sink when it is time to collect on their parents estate. Money makes people act without integrity. It is the root of all evil.

We are completely reopened in AZ and are numbers have not gone down. However, people are right back to living like this never happened. That is the result of lying to Americans. We have lots of issues, being stupid as a nation is not one of them, regardless of what the politicians and media believe.

If there is a huge resurgence I think that they are the ones to blame, being truthful will cause the majority to behave appropriately for the situation, lying will cause them to be rebellious and disregard what is said, why would they willingly create that kind of situation with their lies? Hmmm?

Another group of victims of the shut down.

Just heard on the news, the reporting of child abuse is down. No, that's not good news. It's down because the children, instead of being in school where teachers can observe and report abuse, are now stuck at home with the abusers with no way of calling for help. We all have heard cases where the children were abused and died at the hands of the parents, boyfriends, etc. I hope and pray that this dangerous and destructive shut down will end before any child dies.

Just watched local news tonight. They reported that 80% of all c19 deaths in our state have been in nursing homes. 80%. If it weren't for the fact that many NH residents signed DNR orders that number might have been lower. Still, the younger you are, the less at risk you are (unless you have an underlying condition). The most vulnerable are the ones who should be quarantining because the transmission rate will never be 0 (just like the season flu) and the death rate will never be 0 (just like the season flu). The original purpose of the lockdown was to prevent the HC system from being overwhelmed. It wasn't. So now what is the reason for the continued lockdowns? The same number of people are going to die (in the ensuing spike) whether we unlock slowly or quickly. MN is slated to unlock this Monday. There will be a spike. Then it will decline, but NOT to 0. Then we will try to adjust to a new normal.

Respect the Virus and you should be fine. One thing it has brought out is how materialistic and entitled the US really thinks they are.

NYDaughter, I agree with you. I am kind of at the end of my rope, but I'll have to just dangle here because there is nowhere to go. I tend to think we are the point of diminishing returns. I limit my viewing of news because it is the same old swirling issues and nobody talks about an actual solution. A blanket approach to just cancel everything is accepted as well as an onslaught of businesses closing, unemployment, people dying alone in hospitals from non-covid illness, and our way of sustaining our life evaporates without advocacy. If individuals express otherwise, they are jailed and publicly shamed. My stomach turns. I believe huge gaps have been exposed in this country's medical community but I do not see any voice of leadership addressing it or any higher voice of reason coming forth. (or did I just miss it?)

Another issue going on is that for those of us who face death or the prospect of it daily - such as in a job, or caring for an elderly family member who grows weaker and sicker each week- have come to the realization that death isnt the worst thing that can happen to a person. Not that I'm advocating mass suicide, mind you, just I think you start to lose some of the fear that people fortunate enough to not deal with the prospect of dying every day have about it.
Let's face it...many of us here have been taking care of someone who has been in their own form of self quarantine due to health reasons, we see first hand how devastating limited contact with the world can be. And for we care givers who have been practicing safe hygiene, it's not that much of a leap to mask up. Honestly when this started and we heard over and over to wash your hands, especially when you got back in from running errands my 20 year old daughter looked at me and said "well, what have all these people been doing before when they got back in the house?", because we've been washing up for years. That's just common sense, it seems to me.

Dear fellow commenters, please understand that once lockdowns are eased the virus infection rate (and therefore also death rate) WILL spike, but then it will decline. If the infection "models" are extrapolated beyond the summer months, you would be able to see this trend. No one in the media is talking about this because it doesn't sell. Politicians aren't talking about it because they are dopes beholden to poll ratings du jour and fear of criticism.

The state we live in - TX, is gradually opening up. Last week, restaurants & a couple of other biz; this week hair salons. My stylist called me last week to see if I wanted to make an appt, I did as she assured me their will be precautions taken in the salon. The restaurants are now allowing the dine in option with "limited seating" ..not sure how that will work but since we're aged 65+ ish, we will stick with curbside pick-up. I'm happy to see this gradual reopening BUT will continue to be cautious due to our age.