My mom is 80 and in good health. My dad is 88 and in OK health. She makes a joke and dismisses my concerns. I made it clear that I am not able to be a f/t caregiver but would help out. I fear she doesn’t believe me.
Remove the part where you say "but I would help out" because to mom, that means you'll be the primary caregiver. Period.
There is DEFINITELY a reason to discuss it, or at least make YOUR intentions known!
Tell them, in no uncertain terms, as I told my folks, that Assisted Living would be their only option because I would do NO hands on caregiving, nor would we live together. Mom said she'd pay ME the AL monthly rent and I said, "Sorry mom, that won't work for me. I love you but separate living spaces is a MUST."
The end.
My folks went into Independent Senior Living, then AL, then mom went into Memory Care Assisted Living for nearly 3 years until she passed at 95. I received no inheritance, but I didn't mind. My folks money was intended to be spent for THEIR care, not my inheritance anyway.
I spent over 10 years doing a TON for my parents, but no living together or hands on caregiving, as I'd intended. They did receive great care in AL, and we ALL had lives as a result.
Do everyone a favor and make your wishes known so nobody can say BUT YOU DIDN'T TELL ME!
You sit down and tell her that she/they need to plan. Tell her that you will NOT be responsible for taking care of them You will NOT quit your job You will NOT move in with them You will NOT let them move in with you You will NOT come daily and do household chores for them
You draw your own boundaries and let her/them know what they are. DO NOT back down.
If she does not believe you that is on her. To make your point the first time she asks you to do something if you want to do it do it on your own terms, your own time. If you do not want to do it then say NO. Simple 1 word statement.
First of all there's no reason to discuss it. I always say that the best place for a grown child is 1,000 miles away. I encourage you to move now, and I am not kidding. You tell us nothing about yourself. How old are you? Do you live well apart from your parents and have your own job and family? Is there some reason you assume that your mother feels you will be involved in their care? Might that reason be that you are ALREADY too enmeshed in their lives given you are grown up long enough to have been well flown from the nest?
If you think it would relieve you tension I would tell your parents that you wish to speak with them one one two and that you have something to say which you wish to say once and once only. This should be in the home of one or another of you. A nice tea or a glass of wine.
Then you tell them simply that you wish to speak, and will be brief. That what you have to say does not now or ever require any response but if they have a response you are always willing to hear it now, or when they have had a bit of time to think. Then you say :
Mom and Dad, You are now 80 and 88. I do not know if the two of you have plans or not for your future and I have no idea of your assets or documents. But I would like you to know that your being of this advanced age has caused me to take stock. I have friends. I have seen and heard worrisome things. 1. I encourage you to make certain that you have solid wills made out and POA designating who you wish to take over your care and management of assets should you for any reason be unable to do so. I encourage you to make an advance directive and discuss your wishes for end of life care with me your daughter. 2. I need to tell you that my limitations are such that I choose never to do in home care, and that I would in fact be of very little help with enabling you to stay in your home when you are no longer able physically or mentally to manage for yourself. I would not be one to be running chores, paying bills, arranging appointments. I have tried to approach this subject in the past and it is clear to me that it is uncomfortable for you. However, for me it is crucial that you understand my position and that you know that it will not change in future. I will not be one of those grown children of an age who throws her own life upon the burning funeral pyre of parents who have now lived their lives fully, and I hope very happily.
I will leave you to think about this and discuss it together should you choose, or to ignore it, but remember it when you come to think of me as not a daughter but a potential caregiver. That is NOT going to happen to me. I love you. But I need to be assured that your lack of planning and discussion does not mean that you have drawn conclusions that are not true and that will be harmful to you in future".
Please do know I am open to discussion any time. Now you can write this and you can instead SAY this. But it is negligent not to do one or the other. Your parents are, like all of us (I am 81) hoping to die happy with a stomach full of ice cream, in their sleep, together, and go foot first out the door of their home. That is unlikely to be more fruitful than any other magical thinking hopes we make throughout our lives. They may tell you they know push will come to shove and understand you won't be a caregiver, but aren't ready to make other plans. If that's the case it is something you must accept. You will have said your piece. It is up to YOU to stick to it.
I pushed this conversation for the past 5 years or so, when my parents were in their mid 80's. No real engagement. All was ok. Push it under the rug. I lived 1000 miles away. I Just came to visit every few months. My older dad hinted at needing help. I asked for specifics . none given. Then the storm hit. He had a stroke at 92 and all of their vulnerabilities were exposed. It completely disrupted my life. And their's, of course. We are still in it. They are in their 90's. After much work, worry, and angst and good financial planning on my father's part, they now have 24/7 care at home. For now. Its a constant worry about caregivers and finances and how I will live my life in the context of theirs, for the next few years. I feel trapped. Don't let it happen to you. Push the conversation. I wish I would have. Know what their resources are. Push for what they planned. And have a plan. That doesn't include you as caregiver. I told them I could not be the caregiver, they agreed but they never really formulated a back up plan. It all got dumped in my lap to sort out. It got sorted but with LOTS of worry and effort. Try to get ahead of it. You are right to plan ahead. check out the local nursing homes, ALF, family, friends who have been through it. It did. Some are helpful. Some not. I don't have much family support so that it a negative. But its better to know it than find out in a crisis. This support group has been very helpful.
The exact thing happened to me. Push for the conversation, threaten to never see them again if they don't start thinking about what they are going to do. Something can happen at any point in time and they can be incapacitated and not able to make decisions. What I learned is no one dies peacefully in their sleep in their 90s. Elders who make it to that point just linger and die in bits and pieces and become more and more disabled. Actual death takes years to happen. Older people are in denial and have no idea how vulnerable they actually are.
In my situation, there also was no plan, no revocable trust to avoid probate, no POA, no nothing. Whenever it was brought up, it was just viewed suspiciously as if I was trying to swindle my own parents. I had to actually have a full blown temper tantrum (the kind a two year old would have) on the floor of my mother's kitchen a year and a half ago to get my mother to finally agree retain a lawyer to apply for Medicaid for my father to get him in a nursing home and to get the needed legal documents finally in place. A ridiculous tantrum is what it finally took.
And unfortunately this all took a toll on me. My relationship with my mother was never the same after this.
If your mother laughs it off and refuses to discuss making any care plans for her and your father, you tell her these words plainly.
I WILL NOT be your old age care plan. If you think I'm not serious, you'll learn the hard way how fast I'll let the state take over and place you in a nursing home when your health fails or you take a fall.
Then tell her that unless she is willing to work with you now by getting necessary things like POA and a Will done, you don't want her in your life until she's willing to be cooperative and get these most important things done with your help.
Also let her know in plain language that not getting these things done and refusing to put anything in legal writing will not be an insurance policy guaranteeing that you will keep her and your father out of a "home". Many old people do this because they think it does. It does not. Their families or the state places them anyway if there were no care plans made in advance and carried out when they need them.
You must tell Mom and Dad that if they want their wants and wishes met they must plan.
A Will saying how they want their estate handled. If there is no Will the State gets involved. Do they really want that?
POAs are tools to help them and yes to make things easier for you. Again, puts their wishes in writing. Again, no POA means the State may take over. Someone other than you taking over their lives. And, again, you will not be their Caregiver.
I just had a thought. Why can we children not have a document made up saying "This is to inform my parent/s that I will not be their hands on Caregiver when the time comes they need help. They need to make plans concerning what they will do when they can no longer care for themselves and/or the home they live in. Meaning, they can no longer clean, cook, mow the grass, or afford to pay someone to do so. They realize this is not the responsibility of their children or any other family members. At that time, they will downsize to independent living, Assisted Living or Memory Care. Whatever is appropriate for their needs. If its possible for them to stay in their home with the help of aides, they do so at their expense. The following should be put in place. Not doing so may mean the State taking over their care. DPOA, Medical Proxy, updated Will and codicils."
Signed by child Signed by parent/s (not a have to) Notarized
I keep trying to have this conversation with my husband about his 86 year old brother who lives alone 2 hours from us. His brother did make out a will and named my husband POA, but that is not what I am talking about. What does he want when he can no longer live on his own? My husband says...we don't talk about that stuff. I spent 17 years managing my father. I don't ever want to do that again. I expect to have to do that for my much older husband someday and I am fine with that but I'm not doing this for anyone else. Part of me thinks my husband expects I will guide him through all this. I just don't want to be involved at all. I'm happy to lend a hand here and there but I don't want to be responsible for managing another person like this ever again. And it makes it all the worse that everyone seems to be sticking their heads in the sand.
I hear you , I managed both my parents , then other than the finance stuff I pretty much managed most other things for my FIL . DH admitted he’s not good with “ the medical and dementia stuff “.
Now we have MIL ( divorced ) , refuses to get her ducks in a row . I angst over it because I don’t want to have to deal with it when this house of cards falls .
I hate the "you never told me" nonsense (as mentioned in lealonnie1's response).
I would write it up in a brief, bulleted document (large print edition). Make sure to include something about them assigning a PoA so that "someone" can manage their affairs. Maybe also what happens if they never do this (court-assigned legal guardianship). Then ask them to read it in your presence and they sign and date it. Maybe even video them doing it. Make a copy for yourself, and leave them the original. They might even snigger and make comments while doing it, but so what. Tape it to their fridge. If you have siblings, you may even want to email them a copy so they aren't blindsided and have time to process this info. They may not like it either, but again, so what. Then when the time comes and they reach out because they don't have help, tell them you're allowing them to have the sunset years they planned for.
Years ago when I had "that" conversation with my Mom, she'd always dismiss it by saying, "If I ever get that bad just take me out back and shoot me." Then I'd say, "I might shoot you sooner rather than later because you're being completely unrealistic about the fact that NO ONE gets to stay here forever, and almost NO ONE has a beautiful exit like in the movies."
I even showed her that we had already created ours. Nope.
Eventually she had a front-row seat in 2016-2018 to the train wreck caused by my inlaws and all the non-stop work I did for them for almost 2 years non-stop when I was working full time in our business and my 3 sons were still in school. It ended with us allowing my broke, jerk of a SFIL to become the ward of a court-appointed guardian. He then went into an awful county NH. Once my Mom saw that reality, that's when the shiver went up her spine and she voluntarily, finally, created her paperwork.
I think the only angle some elders will respond to is the reality of loss of control to the goverment. They may not be ready to "give" control of everything to their adult children but they need to understand the only other alternative is for a total stranger to do it with no family control at all anymore forever.
A document that you give to them can help, but there's no guarantee they'll keep it. I'd video me telling them with my own mouth so they can't lose the paper or deny I ever said it. They will be in the video dismissing it.
My MIL has always said she would buy a gun and shoot herself before she went into a facility.
I asked her how she will go out to buy a gun when she is incapacitated in the hospital from a stroke.
So far we haven't gotten far , she won't get POA drawn up. She claims she has an old living will . The only thing she was willing to do after multiple conversations was put her son on her accounts, when he told her , her house bills would need to be paid if she was in the hospital. Fortunately , she's old school , paper bills and checks. She has no computer , because if she did , I know she would never give her passwords.
Threatening ward of the state , has not moved her either.
No one WANTS to face the inevitable. There is a great fear of becoming vulnerable. I watched my grandmother and her siblings care for my great grandparents, my parents care for their parents, and I started in caring for my mom, but learned quickly (well, not quick enough actually) that the world has changed too much for the same family caregiving to be possible. Because for the most part all adults now must bring an income into their households and people tend to stay in the workforce into their elder years, we have a caregiving crisis. The cost of health care, the lack of caregivers, and the practical needs of individual family members make it important to remedy the situation. I've read about some communities that make arrangements to care for each other, but I can't imagine entire countries taking up this sort of thing. But I would like to know about ideas.
I would like to add , that the elderly often live longer in a debilitated, dead weight state than they used to as well . The caregiving can last years longer than it used to . And it is often thrust on one person now.
There is DEFINITELY a reason to discuss it, or at least make YOUR intentions known!
Tell them, in no uncertain terms, as I told my folks, that Assisted Living would be their only option because I would do NO hands on caregiving, nor would we live together. Mom said she'd pay ME the AL monthly rent and I said, "Sorry mom, that won't work for me. I love you but separate living spaces is a MUST."
The end.
My folks went into Independent Senior Living, then AL, then mom went into Memory Care Assisted Living for nearly 3 years until she passed at 95. I received no inheritance, but I didn't mind. My folks money was intended to be spent for THEIR care, not my inheritance anyway.
I spent over 10 years doing a TON for my parents, but no living together or hands on caregiving, as I'd intended. They did receive great care in AL, and we ALL had lives as a result.
Do everyone a favor and make your wishes known so nobody can say BUT YOU DIDN'T TELL ME!
Tell her that you will NOT be responsible for taking care of them
You will NOT quit your job
You will NOT move in with them
You will NOT let them move in with you
You will NOT come daily and do household chores for them
You draw your own boundaries and let her/them know what they are.
DO NOT back down.
If she does not believe you that is on her.
To make your point the first time she asks you to do something if you want to do it do it on your own terms, your own time. If you do not want to do it then say NO. Simple 1 word statement.
I always say that the best place for a grown child is 1,000 miles away. I encourage you to move now, and I am not kidding.
You tell us nothing about yourself. How old are you? Do you live well apart from your parents and have your own job and family? Is there some reason you assume that your mother feels you will be involved in their care? Might that reason be that you are ALREADY too enmeshed in their lives given you are grown up long enough to have been well flown from the nest?
If you think it would relieve you tension I would tell your parents that you wish to speak with them one one two and that you have something to say which you wish to say once and once only. This should be in the home of one or another of you. A nice tea or a glass of wine.
Then you tell them simply that you wish to speak, and will be brief. That what you have to say does not now or ever require any response but if they have a response you are always willing to hear it now, or when they have had a bit of time to think. Then you say :
Mom and Dad, You are now 80 and 88. I do not know if the two of you have plans or not for your future and I have no idea of your assets or documents. But I would like you to know that your being of this advanced age has caused me to take stock. I have friends. I have seen and heard worrisome things.
1. I encourage you to make certain that you have solid wills made out and POA designating who you wish to take over your care and management of assets should you for any reason be unable to do so. I encourage you to make an advance directive and discuss your wishes for end of life care with me your daughter.
2. I need to tell you that my limitations are such that I choose never to do in home care, and that I would in fact be of very little help with enabling you to stay in your home when you are no longer able physically or mentally to manage for yourself. I would not be one to be running chores, paying bills, arranging appointments.
I have tried to approach this subject in the past and it is clear to me that it is uncomfortable for you. However, for me it is crucial that you understand my position and that you know that it will not change in future.
I will not be one of those grown children of an age who throws her own life upon the burning funeral pyre of parents who have now lived their lives fully, and I hope very happily.
I will leave you to think about this and discuss it together should you choose, or to ignore it, but remember it when you come to think of me as not a daughter but a potential caregiver. That is NOT going to happen to me. I love you. But I need to be assured that your lack of planning and discussion does not mean that you have drawn conclusions that are not true and that will be harmful to you in future".
Please do know I am open to discussion any time.
Now you can write this and you can instead SAY this. But it is negligent not to do one or the other.
Your parents are, like all of us (I am 81) hoping to die happy with a stomach full of ice cream, in their sleep, together, and go foot first out the door of their home. That is unlikely to be more fruitful than any other magical thinking hopes we make throughout our lives. They may tell you they know push will come to shove and understand you won't be a caregiver, but aren't ready to make other plans. If that's the case it is something you must accept. You will have said your piece. It is up to YOU to stick to it.
In my situation, there also was no plan, no revocable trust to avoid probate, no POA, no nothing. Whenever it was brought up, it was just viewed suspiciously as if I was trying to swindle my own parents. I had to actually have a full blown temper tantrum (the kind a two year old would have) on the floor of my mother's kitchen a year and a half ago to get my mother to finally agree retain a lawyer to apply for Medicaid for my father to get him in a nursing home and to get the needed legal documents finally in place. A ridiculous tantrum is what it finally took.
And unfortunately this all took a toll on me. My relationship with my mother was never the same after this.
I WILL NOT be your old age care plan. If you think I'm not serious, you'll learn the hard way how fast I'll let the state take over and place you in a nursing home when your health fails or you take a fall.
Then tell her that unless she is willing to work with you now by getting necessary things like POA and a Will done, you don't want her in your life until she's willing to be cooperative and get these most important things done with your help.
Also let her know in plain language that not getting these things done and refusing to put anything in legal writing will not be an insurance policy guaranteeing that you will keep her and your father out of a "home". Many old people do this because they think it does. It does not. Their families or the state places them anyway if there were no care plans made in advance and carried out when they need them.
A Will saying how they want their estate handled. If there is no Will the State gets involved. Do they really want that?
POAs are tools to help them and yes to make things easier for you. Again, puts their wishes in writing. Again, no POA means the State may take over. Someone other than you taking over their lives. And, again, you will not be their Caregiver.
I just had a thought. Why can we children not have a document made up saying "This is to inform my parent/s that I will not be their hands on Caregiver when the time comes they need help. They need to make plans concerning what they will do when they can no longer care for themselves and/or the home they live in. Meaning, they can no longer clean, cook, mow the grass, or afford to pay someone to do so. They realize this is not the responsibility of their children or any other family members. At that time, they will downsize to independent living, Assisted Living or Memory Care. Whatever is appropriate for their needs. If its possible for them to stay in their home with the help of aides, they do so at their expense. The following should be put in place. Not doing so may mean the State taking over their care. DPOA, Medical Proxy, updated Will and codicils."
Signed by child
Signed by parent/s (not a have to)
Notarized
I managed both my parents , then other than the finance stuff I pretty much managed most other things for my FIL .
DH admitted he’s not good with “ the medical and dementia stuff “.
Now we have MIL ( divorced ) , refuses to get her ducks in a row . I angst over it because I don’t want to have to deal with it when this house of cards falls .
I would write it up in a brief, bulleted document (large print edition). Make sure to include something about them assigning a PoA so that "someone" can manage their affairs. Maybe also what happens if they never do this (court-assigned legal guardianship). Then ask them to read it in your presence and they sign and date it. Maybe even video them doing it. Make a copy for yourself, and leave them the original. They might even snigger and make comments while doing it, but so what. Tape it to their fridge. If you have siblings, you may even want to email them a copy so they aren't blindsided and have time to process this info. They may not like it either, but again, so what. Then when the time comes and they reach out because they don't have help, tell them you're allowing them to have the sunset years they planned for.
I even showed her that we had already created ours. Nope.
Eventually she had a front-row seat in 2016-2018 to the train wreck caused by my inlaws and all the non-stop work I did for them for almost 2 years non-stop when I was working full time in our business and my 3 sons were still in school. It ended with us allowing my broke, jerk of a SFIL to become the ward of a court-appointed guardian. He then went into an awful county NH. Once my Mom saw that reality, that's when the shiver went up her spine and she voluntarily, finally, created her paperwork.
I think the only angle some elders will respond to is the reality of loss of control to the goverment. They may not be ready to "give" control of everything to their adult children but they need to understand the only other alternative is for a total stranger to do it with no family control at all anymore forever.
A document that you give to them can help, but there's no guarantee they'll keep it. I'd video me telling them with my own mouth so they can't lose the paper or deny I ever said it. They will be in the video dismissing it.
I asked her how she will go out to buy a gun when she is incapacitated in the hospital from a stroke.
So far we haven't gotten far , she won't get POA drawn up. She claims she has an old living will . The only thing she was willing to do after multiple conversations was put her son on her accounts, when he told her , her house bills would need to be paid if she was in the hospital. Fortunately , she's old school , paper bills and checks. She has no computer , because if she did , I know she would never give her passwords.
Threatening ward of the state , has not moved her either.
And it is often thrust on one person now.